Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread Part 'x'

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/269695.stm

And Hoddle's ex girlfriend was this faith healer's daughter...isn't love sweet?

[Hammersmith harrier]

If I work with a black man and a homosexual that means I can't be either racist or homophobic?

What about the bit where Terry says Desailly is one of the greatest influences on his career?

No answer to this then, Hammersmith?

Does it not tally with your "John Terry is racist" line?  

It means absolutely nothing Duty, players say exactly what they know their fans want to hear.

[mystiroakey]

I forgive neither but as an Englishmen brought up in England, Terry should know better, Suarez I think is just a horrible piece of work anyway.

Dont you think judging English people at a higher standard is actually partially racist against others from a foreign country

[owen10ozzy]

Why are we so harsh on our own players making a racist gesture, - note that doesn't mean he is inherently racist anyway..

Everyone seems to relish the prospect of watching suraez in the World Cup.

Do people let him off because he is foreign.

Isn't that in fact more racist than forgiving terry. Or holding them both to the same judgement...


Don't give me the excuse that Suarez is so good he gives us more positives and terry is too old. That makes a mockery of the racist excuse in the first place.

Reasons to play terry.

Experienced. Good leader . Partner of Cahill who should be the no 1 cb..

Reasons not to.

Better players out there that will fit with Cahill.

..

For Chelsea this probably holds true; for England I don't think he is. I think he is and has been one of the most destructive forces within the dressing room from circa 2009 onwards. I'm glad he isn't around the England camp anymore. The national team need moving on from the 'golden generation' or as I like to call them 'over-inflated ego generation' and the more of them lingering around the side now the worse it will be.

We need to move on with a new ethos and a crop of players who haven't got the 'failed tag' attached to them.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Below are statistics for LEFT - Rafael (12-13) & RIGHT - Richards (11-12) during their clubs title winning seasons:

Tackle Win % - (71%) - (75%)
Ground Duel Win % -  (67%) - (58%)
Aeriel Win % - (60%) - (74%)
Fouls - (36) - (39)
Blocks - (7) - (13)
Clean Sheets - (9) - (11)
Errors Leading To Goal - (1) - (0)

Pass Accuracy -  (84%) - (82%)
Cross Accuracy - (25%) - (18%)
Chances Created - (24) -
Crosses - (82) - (33)
Assists - (3) - (6)

Defensively Richards looks the more solid off the two; shock given plenty seem to think he has pace & that's it!

Going forward Rafael is certainly the more offensive minded, yet he came away with less assists despite having 2 & half times more crosses and a 7% higher cross completion rate.

Are we talking about a side that was a) set up more defensively b) a better title winning City side?

I don't think theres anything that these stats actually add to the conversation. 58% ground duel win for Richards is poor for someone with aspirations to be a centre back.

Arguably, one of those players has gone on and done something since 11/12, and its not been Richards.

But we aren't talking about him as a CB; i'm discussing him as a RB and in his best season at City comparable to Rafael's best (last year) he comes out on top in the defensive stats. Whilst he languishes in crosses & cross percentage he still came away with more assists than Rafael.

Fair enough, Rafael is now 1st choice where as Richards has been unable to break back into the City side. Would Rafael be first choice if he had world class competition for his place? I highly doubt it.

I dont think he comes out on top of those defensive stats. And it doesnt involve any context of the team or situations etc. And if United needed to replace him then they would have.

Let alone the fact that he comes up clear on top going forward for me and still holds the defence add.

[mystiroakey]

If I work with a black man and a homosexual that means I can't be either racist or homophobic?

What about the bit where Terry says Desailly is one of the greatest influences on his career?

No answer to this then, Hammersmith?

Does it not tally with your "John Terry is racist" line?  

It means absolutely nothing Duty, players say exactly what they know their fans want to hear.

i do agree with that- actions speak l;louder than words. the old- i like this black man, or my mates black doesn't wash for me.

Terry was racist for a split second. He hasn't re offended . If he does again then fine I will judge him.

[Lumbering_Jack]

Where do we draw the line then? Gerrard, like Terry, was aquited by a court despite what on the face of it seemed like a pretty clear cut case. Should we stop him boarding the plane.

What about Cole? Hasn't he been banned from driving?

[Hammersmith harrier]

Below are statistics for LEFT - Rafael (12-13) & RIGHT - Richards (11-12) during their clubs title winning seasons:

Tackle Win % - (71%) - (75%)
Ground Duel Win % -  (67%) - (58%)
Aeriel Win % - (60%) - (74%)
Fouls - (36) - (39)
Blocks - (7) - (13)
Clean Sheets - (9) - (11)
Errors Leading To Goal - (1) - (0)

Pass Accuracy -  (84%) - (82%)
Cross Accuracy - (25%) - (18%)
Chances Created - (24) -
Crosses - (82) - (33)
Assists - (3) - (6)

Defensively Richards looks the more solid off the two; shock given plenty seem to think he has pace & that's it!

Going forward Rafael is certainly the more offensive minded, yet he came away with less assists despite having 2 & half times more crosses and a 7% higher cross completion rate.

Are we talking about a side that was a) set up more defensively b) a better title winning City side?

I don't think theres anything that these stats actually add to the conversation. 58% ground duel win for Richards is poor for someone with aspirations to be a centre back.

Arguably, one of those players has gone on and done something since 11/12, and its not been Richards.

But we aren't talking about him as a CB; i'm discussing him as a RB and in his best season at City comparable to Rafael's best (last year) he comes out on top in the defensive stats. Whilst he languishes in crosses & cross percentage he still came away with more assists than Rafael.

Fair enough, Rafael is now 1st choice where as Richards has been unable to break back into the City side. Would Rafael be first choice if he had world class competition for his place? I highly doubt it.

You can't compare stats across seasons between players who play in teams with different strengths. Richards played in a fairly defensive minded Mancini City whereas Rafael played in a fairly attack minded Ferguson United, that in short is why the stats aren't worth talking about.

Rafael last season was the second best right back in the league, he like every other United player is having a pretty crap season but he is still a far better right back than Richards regardless of what other stats you wish to mention.

[Duty281]

Terry might not be the nicest guy but when your defense of calling him a racist is its your opinion, you shouldn't really go around accusing others of a lack of intelligence

It's my opinion based on what he has said, as far as i'm concerned anybody making racist comments is racist.

Racism is a belief. A belief that races account for differences in character or suchlike, a belief that your race is superior, or a belief that other races are inferior.

One isolated incident does not make someone a racist.

[NickisBHAFC]

If anyone thinks Terry isn't very good anymore, then its fair to say there a bit of an idiot, or just haven't been watching Chelsea in any of the big games this season.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Racism can be any of the following; a belief like you've already said but also an action or a practice based upon race. It is not purely a belief.

[Duty281]

Racism can be any of the following; a belief like you've already said but also an action or a practice based upon race. It is not purely a belief.

But a court of law says John Terry did not racially abuse Anton Ferdinand.

[Mad for Chelsea]

If anyone thinks Terry isn't very good anymore, then its fair to say there a bit of an idiot, or just haven't been watching Chelsea in any of the big games this season.

This. Not wanting him in the squad for moral reasons is one thing (though I find it hard to square with some other illustrious figures in the England set-up, I understand and if that's where you draw the line, than OK).

However, on purely footballing reasons Terry should walk into the squad and indeed the first team. Not only is he playing better than any other England CB at the moment, he plays alongside two of England's other likely starting defenders at the WC (Cahil almost a certainty bar disaster, and Cole most likely unless Baines has a special second half of the season).

I don't think WCs are where we should be building to the future, and does anyone really think a Cahill-Smalling/Jones/Jagielka partnership looks a better option than Cahill/Terry? If so, I'd be keen to know why you think it, because I just don't see it.

[Duty281]

Taken from the court case:

"It may be worth mentioning here that the issue for this court to decide is not whether Mr Terry is a racist, in the broadest sense of the word. I have received a substantial volume of unchallenged evidence from witnesses, both in person and in writing, to confirm that he is not."

Good enough for me.

[Hammersmith harrier]

As far as i'm concerned he did, any discrimination law can be interpreted based on personal opinion, that a judge found him not guilty doesn't change that.

[Duty281]

But the fact that a number of witnesses believe Terry not to be a racist?

[Mad for Chelsea]

well I don't think you two are going to agree on this one

anywayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, moving on, not sure if anyone's mentioned this but
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26115540
FA has decided no further action on Toure. I should be surprised, but somehow I'm not. Imagine had he not played for one of the glamour clubs he'd have copped a three-game ban at least...

[Guest]

Racism can be any of the following; a belief like you've already said but also an action or a practice based upon race. It is not purely a belief.

But a court of law says John Terry did not racially abuse Anton Ferdinand.

Ah, but the jury was made up of members of the public who are, as I'm sure you'll be aware, inherently stupid and/or racist (probably). Thankfully, Terry and his ilk are judged by the highest court in the land, the Court of Public Opinion so any piffling legal matters are largely washed over in an effort to get across just how much of a "wrong un" he is.

Much like William Roach, found Not Guilty by the CofPO who decided he couldn't have indecently assault that woman because "if you remember, him and Deirdre were on holiday that year and he weren't even in the Country"

[Dolphin Ziggler]

If anyone thinks Terry isn't very good anymore, then its fair to say there a bit of an idiot, or just haven't been watching Chelsea in any of the big games this season.

I dont think hes good enough for the clamour. End of. One I think Cahill has been better, two I think Chelsea play to suit him and England won't, three I don't think we have the players to protect his flaws. So swivel on that idiot

[mystiroakey]

Racism can be any of the following; a belief like you've already said but also an action or a practice based upon race. It is not purely a belief.

But a court of law says John Terry did not racially abuse Anton Ferdinand.

Ah, but the jury was made up of members of the public who are, as I'm sure you'll be aware, inherently stupid and/or racist (probably). Thankfully, Terry and his ilk are judged by the highest court in the land, the Court of Public Opinion so any piffling legal matters are largely washed over in an effort to get across just how much of a "wrong un" he is.

Much like William Roach, found Not Guilty by the CofPO who decided he couldn't have indecently assault that woman because "if you remember, him and Deirdre were on holiday that year and he weren't even in the Country"

About 45 years ago when soaps were in there infancy. A soap character needed money for some reason. 100 fans sent the actress money....

People amaze me...

[Mad for Chelsea]

but we have the players to protect the even bigger flaws of Jones, Smalling or Jagielka, who also don't have the advantage of playing alongside Cahill every week? Terry isn't perfect, but he's better (much much better IMO) than the alternatives.

[Duty281]

but we have the players to protect the even bigger flaws of Jones, Smalling or Jagielka, who also don't have the advantage of playing alongside Cahill every week? Terry isn't perfect, but he's better (much much better IMO) than the alternatives.

Exactly. Terry or Jagielka? Let me think about this....

[Guest]

Racism can be any of the following; a belief like you've already said but also an action or a practice based upon race. It is not purely a belief.

But a court of law says John Terry did not racially abuse Anton Ferdinand.

Ah, but the jury was made up of members of the public who are, as I'm sure you'll be aware, inherently stupid and/or racist (probably). Thankfully, Terry and his ilk are judged by the highest court in the land, the Court of Public Opinion so any piffling legal matters are largely washed over in an effort to get across just how much of a "wrong un" he is.

Much like William Roach, found Not Guilty by the CofPO who decided he couldn't have indecently assault that woman because "if you remember, him and Deirdre were on holiday that year and he weren't even in the Country"

About 45 years ago when soaps were in there infancy. A soap character needed money for some reason. 100 fans sent the actress money....

People amaze me...

Not long ago, Tony Blair decided to take a break from lying to the Country and waging illegal wars to intervene on behalf of Deirdre Rashid
People DISGUST me...especially Duty but for very different reasons

[Duty281]

Racism can be any of the following; a belief like you've already said but also an action or a practice based upon race. It is not purely a belief.

But a court of law says John Terry did not racially abuse Anton Ferdinand.

Ah, but the jury was made up of members of the public who are, as I'm sure you'll be aware, inherently stupid and/or racist (probably). Thankfully, Terry and his ilk are judged by the highest court in the land, the Court of Public Opinion so any piffling legal matters are largely washed over in an effort to get across just how much of a "wrong un" he is.

Much like William Roach, found Not Guilty by the CofPO who decided he couldn't have indecently assault that woman because "if you remember, him and Deirdre were on holiday that year and he weren't even in the Country"

About 45 years ago when soaps were in there infancy. A soap character needed money for some reason. 100 fans sent the actress money....

People amaze me...

Not long ago, Tony Blair decided to take a break from lying to the Country and waging illegal wars to intervene on behalf of Deirdre Rashid
People DISGUST me...especially Duty but for very different reasons

Haha...my tongue has stayed perfectly in my mouth for the last few weeks.   

Promise!

[Guest]

Racism can be any of the following; a belief like you've already said but also an action or a practice based upon race. It is not purely a belief.

But a court of law says John Terry did not racially abuse Anton Ferdinand.

Ah, but the jury was made up of members of the public who are, as I'm sure you'll be aware, inherently stupid and/or racist (probably). Thankfully, Terry and his ilk are judged by the highest court in the land, the Court of Public Opinion so any piffling legal matters are largely washed over in an effort to get across just how much of a "wrong un" he is.

Much like William Roach, found Not Guilty by the CofPO who decided he couldn't have indecently assault that woman because "if you remember, him and Deirdre were on holiday that year and he weren't even in the Country"

About 45 years ago when soaps were in there infancy. A soap character needed money for some reason. 100 fans sent the actress money....

People amaze me...

Not long ago, Tony Blair decided to take a break from lying to the Country and waging illegal wars to intervene on behalf of Deirdre Rashid
People DISGUST me...especially Duty but for very different reasons

Haha...my tongue has stayed perfectly in my mouth for the last few weeks.   

Promise!

Come on Duty, you know that word's as alien to you as "sensitivity" and "compassion" are to me

[Dolphin Ziggler]

but we have the players to protect the even bigger flaws of Jones, Smalling or Jagielka, who also don't have the advantage of playing alongside Cahill every week? Terry isn't perfect, but he's better (much much better IMO) than the alternatives.

But what do we gain? There's no long term future to him either? Plus hes a git. Jagielka offers about as much as Terry anyway.

I wouldnt take him or Lampard, and thats for footballing reasons.

But much like KP in the cricket, I wouldnt bother with the influence of Terry nowadays.

Plus we wont win the thing, but we might create some stars.

[Stella]

Would you take Morrison, Chris?

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Not anymore. He had the chance, was playing well, could have made a splash. Has since lost his place and the attitude is being seriously questioned again. Cant have that in a World Cup squad. I love Morrison the footballer, dont think English football has as graceful a talent right now, but aptitude without attitude is too big a flaw

[Fernando]

I think it may be time to look to the Germans for advice - 2010 world cup the amount of youth players they took was ridiculous but it's turned out well for them. England's youngest player in 2010 was 23 and that was Aaron Lennon/Joe Hart 

Personally with the heat in Brazil id take a lot of youth that could run all day lets face it we're rubbish at keeping the ball so why not hassle them for it instead.

[Mat]

That was a stupid sacking by West Brom.

They do love to do stupid sackings now that i think about it.

Yeah replacing a bloke who was taking us down with someone who was the LMA manager of the year, kept us up comfortably both seasons and became the next England manager was really stupid.

[GSC]

I know it's what he does best, but Joses mind games are really boring.

He's not fooling anyone by this non challengers talk

[Ent]

Just keeping the pressure off his players.

He will be insufferable if Chelsea win the league though!!

[compelling and rich]

See zaha being a d!ck on twitter, not sure who he thinks he is.

im sure mysti will blame moyes somehow

[Ent]

What's he saying?

[NickisBHAFC]

Jose has got a point tbf. City should be smashing this league to death. Anything other than winning the league should be classed as complete failure.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Not so sure about that Nick, I think Jose likes to forget how much Chelsea have spent on players as well, they are only in the position they are because of a rich owner.

[Ent]

City have taken it to another level though.

They've had 2 billionaire owners and 3 sets of players (more or less) before they won a title.

And they've just got another £100 million or so worth of players, should be walking this league.

[NickisBHAFC]

Agree with Ent.

Also no surprise that Zaha has been giving it the biggen on twitter. Fantastic player. But i've always classed him as a complete pri*k and his attitude stinks. Nothing to do with the fact he tore us a new one in the play offs.

[compelling and rich]

What's he saying?

on instagram he put a picture of him and ole saying its nice to have a manager who backs him. He does realise we still own him and pay his wages?!

[GSC]

Bit racist

[GSC]

Good old 'Arry doing fine work with a stacked squad. Should've signed 3 more strikers

[Ent]

What's he saying?

on instagram he put a picture of him and ole saying its nice to have a manager who backs him. He does realise we still own him and pay his wages?!

He must be a bit stupid to be getting on like that, he should be proving himself to moyes with good behaviour and performances.

Surely he aspires to play for a top team in big competitions, would be easier to regain favour with ujited than end up moving to a mid/lower pl team for a few years then to another big club.

[NickisBHAFC]

That belongs in the Championship thread GSC  

[GSC]

I think his best chance of that is forcing a move though ent

[GSC]

Laughing at 'Arry belongs in every thread

[Ent]

I think his best chance of that is forcing a move though ent

Really?

If he just behaves and plays well he will end up in the team.

Surely a better option than trying to force through a move to the likes of Cardiff and getting himself a reputation as unprofessional.

I'll never understand footballers.

[GSC]

More a joke about aspiring to play for a top team than anything tbh

[Ent]

Aye I get you, still a big club though (even if the team is Poopie).

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Laughing at 'Arry belongs in every thread

This. Wally 1 Twitchy 0. "Give him the England job!"   

[Champagne_Socialist]

Racism can be any of the following; a belief like you've already said but also an action or a practice based upon race. It is not purely a belief.

But a court of law says John Terry did not racially abuse Anton Ferdinand.

A court of law said OJ simpson was innocent of murder......

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Racism can be any of the following; a belief like you've already said but also an action or a practice based upon race. It is not purely a belief.

But a court of law says John Terry did not racially abuse Anton Ferdinand.

A court of law said OJ simpson was innocent of murder......

And a court of law couldnt prove John Terry did it, isnt innocence

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