Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread Part 'x'

[mystiroakey]

First topic message reminder :

Not sure what's going to happen in t his game..

More bothered about watching what Ox can do again..

Its not a forgone conclusion for me.

I do think Moyesball is pretty decent against possession teams..

[Pierce Quincy]

He's bought in two players. Fellaini at £27m, however, he could of got him at £24m & then Mata for £37m in a position that was already filled, therefore, a luxury player, ignoring the actual positions & issues that needed to be resolved elsewhere in the squad. That's not good management. Playing players out of position continually is again poor management. Removing the existing successful backroom staff who have strong personal relationships with the players, including the GK coach who could speak Spanish to De Gea, again shambolic decision making from Moyes.

I agree, he did a good job at Everton with the resources available, but he's doing a very good job of making himself look badly out of depth at United. I mean, this guy has spent over £15m on Fellaini once & then £27m on him a second time but then drops him for United's biggest European game of the season?

Would I want him spending the £100m available over the summer, categorically no! This is a crucial summer for United, they can't be making more mistakes. They need a top manager with stature, experience & understanding of European football, like the other top teams have. Moyes simply isn't it in my opinion.

I agree too, John. While he did a very good job transforming a relegation-threatened Everton to a Top-6/7 Everton with limited resources available, He had not won a cup or against a Top-4 club. In fact, the highlights of his tenure at Goodison Park are the couple of times Everton had finished above Liverpool, and Everton finishing 4th in the 2004-05 season despite selling Rooney to United. That in itself is quite alarming.
That Roberto Martinez is doing a far better job than him with (almost) the same squad has made me think whether he deserved to be chosen by Sir Alex Ferguson for the United Job. I think Jose Mourinho, with all his (special)faults would have been a better choice, but wasn't 'chosen' mainly because the United officials(including SAF) were he would leave after 2-3 years and would not improve the team in the long-term. Be we now know that he is at Chelsea for the long-run.
I am not saying David Moyes is not a good manager- he is a very good manager, but the fact that Roberto Martinez has overshadowed the work Moyes did in 10 years in just a season does imply automatically that Martinez is a better manager, doesn't it?

But then I also do not think he should be sacked. The squad he inherited from Sir Alex is already in need of 're-enforcements'. He should be given at least another season or two, to sow improvements after bringing in his own players. If United still don't improve, then it'll be time. Not now.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Martinez has overshadowed the work Moyes did? Fans moan about short-termism and then thats said.

[Stella]

Martinez has overshadowed the work Moyes did? Fans moan about short-termism and then thats said.

He's doing the same job, but unlike Moyes, has not done it over a prolonged period, which of course isn't his fault.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Which only supports my questioning.

[Stella]

Which only supports my questioning.

Indeed. We can only say he's better if he wins a cup win, and gets consistent top 7 finishes.

[nasisillmatic]

I think Martinez has adapted very well to life Everton, but the season isn't over, and they've started losing more games in recent weeks.

I'd judge him in the summer when they've sorted out the loan players they have, and made some new signings.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

If he finishes outside the top four and doesnt win the fa cup, which i'd bank on being what happens, is Martinez then unsuccessful? Or is he better cos he beat Man United?

[Guest]

Martinez has, for years, struggled to keep Wigan in the PL with a great deal of success. He's now gone to Everton and it seems on the face of it that he's good enough to at least keep them in and around the position they're accustomed to.

Moyes has also taken a job with a bigger club and we can all see how he's fared. It's all relative but I'm sure the weight of expectation on Martinez is comparable to what Moyes is dealing with. Many expected Moyes to waltz into a job with a ready made winning team at his disposable and the flaws are evident for all to see. Martinez will have walked into Everton with people thinking, "Great, this is the guy that battles relegation every season."

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Not sure the weight of expectation is comparable.

Don't get me wrong, I was one of those championing Martinez on here at the start of the season (yet to find me on the worst post of the season thread   ) but hes doing a far easier job and to some extent he did fail at Wigan. He didnt fail the club, but he probably failed his job remit. Again, I'd rather win the FA Cup than sit in the Premier League for 10-20 years as fodder, but just the difference in context of the two things I said I suppose.

[GSC]

Sorry Dave, I can't equate replacing SAF with having a reputation built on relegation struggles

[mystiroakey]

I just heard a rumour that moyes went to evens for a moment to be the next manager to be sacked.

I am his biggest critic on here(not on the rest of the web) but even i say give him till the end of the season or till just before next jan transfer.

but if i was to keep him I wouldn't let him spend much more.. Only what he can get from the others that will be gone. RVP for instance has to go after his comments.. he will be worth 18-25 m-

[GSC]

If you aren't going to give Moyes money then sack him. Keeping him but not giving him money is the stupidest approach possible.

[mystiroakey]

If you aren't going to give Moyes money then sack him. Keeping him but not giving him money is the stupidest approach possible.

no its really not- that would kill the chance for the next manager.

Man U have to keep an eye on the fact m oyes will ballz it up.. He has to proove he can work with the talent he has got plus what he will gain from selling others.

he has allready had 70 m. he will get another 40 m or so by selling the light weights- thats 110million!!!

giving him that extra 90 mill is insane- that will be needed to secure the next manager !

no manager will come to united(decent one) without something to spend in a transfer window!!

If moyes can proove his worth be say next jan transfer - give him the rest then or next summerr.

If Man u keep Moyes and give him the lot to spend . Man u could be gone for the next 10 years

[GSC]

If you're looking ahead to the next manager then you should sack Moyes anyway Myst. Either you give him the best chance to succeed or you give somebody else that chance. Any other approach is simply ludicrous.

[mystiroakey]

he has the best chance to succeed- but just dont give him the lot straight away.

because that would be the most stupidiest approach ever.

giving moyes 100-200 mill is insane.. its rewarding mediocrity and then any next manager is going to go the same route..

back him(but limit him)- or get rid

[GSC]

Anyway, you're probably underestimating United as a commercial monster. Liverpool blew like 55m on Carroll and Downing and kept ticking. United are far bigger commercially. Clubs their size tend to make back the money on big signings through shirt and commercial deals anyway

[mystiroakey]

Anyway, you're probably underestimating United as a commercial monster. Liverpool blew like 55m on Carroll and Downing and kept ticking. United are far bigger commercially. Clubs their size tend to make back the money on big signings through shirt and commercial deals anyway

To move forward they need 2 midfielders. proper midfielders.

they need to stop the BS no swap stuff and take a couple of arsernal for RVP..

Then buy a couple of rising stars like shaw..

thats it- that should be enough for moyes to compete top 4

[GSC]

Arsene isnt going to hand over Wilshere or Ramsey to get RVP back. United are unlikely to move him for the likes of Arteta.

[mystiroakey]

arteta or flamini would be ideal though

Then also go for one more.

Arserne would love RVP back, they could force his hand

[Hammersmith harrier]

We're unlikely to let RVP leave anyway, all it would do is create another position that needs filling.

[Guest]

Sorry Dave, I can't equate replacing SAF with having a reputation built on relegation struggles

Thing is, I feel to a degree that Moyes has it easy as, given what's gone before, he's not realistically expected to compete with Ferguson and in some quarters (growing larger by the day) is actually expected to fail. He can't possibly live up to Fergie's legacy and has to carve out his own niche but he's even failing to do that with the modest talent at his disposal. Taking Fergie out of it, it's still beggaring belief that he's failed to recognize that some of his players simply aren't up to the task. That in itself is enough to suggest that he's a poor manager or at the least poorer than Martinez. Martinez has brought in the likes of Barry and Lukaku and utilized them infinitely better that Moyes has done with his lot.

[mystiroakey]

RVP has just slated the club and is old..

he doesn't believe there is any space for him..

so....

[mystiroakey]

Sorry Dave, I can't equate replacing SAF with having a reputation built on relegation struggles

Thing is, I feel to a degree that Moyes has it easy as, given what's gone before, he's not realistically expected to compete with Ferguson and in some quarters (growing larger by the day) is actually expected to fail. He can't possibly live up to Fergie's legacy and has to carve out his own niche but he's even failing to do that with the modest talent at his disposal. Taking Fergie out of it, it's still beggaring belief that he's failed to recognize that some of his players simply aren't up to the task. That in itself is enough to suggest that he's a poor manager or at the least poorer than Martinez. Martinez has brought in the likes of Barry and Lukaku and utilized them infinitely better that Moyes has done with his lot.

add barkley

[Hammersmith harrier]

RVP has just slated the club and is old..

he doesn't believe there is any space for him..

so....

So you swap him for a 31 year old midfielder in Arteta who wouldn't solve a single problem?

[GSC]

Tbh, I would've been surprised if RVP wasn't asking for a move this summer anyway given his basis for leaving Arsenal. A move back to Arsenal seems unlikely though.

[mystiroakey]

RVP has just slated the club and is old..

he doesn't believe there is any space for him..

so....

So you swap him for a 31 year old midfielder in Arteta who wouldn't solve a single problem?

i did say two.. 

Areteta isnt worth much so he could be brought in with cashor another player for RVP, but i disagree i think he would solve loads in the short term.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Arteta doesn't offer anything that Carrick doesn't and wouldn't be a worthwhile signing at all, what a load of rubbish. Secondly we're not Chelsea or Arsenal we would not sell anybody to a domestic rival let alone one of our better players, you're living in a fantasy world.

[mystiroakey]

Arteta doesn't offer anything that Carrick doesn't and wouldn't be a worthwhile signing at all, what a load of rubbish. Secondly we're not Chelsea or Arsenal we would not sell anybody to a domestic rival let alone one of our better players, you're living in a fantasy world.

RVP is gone mate- He is GONE. accept it.. get something for him rather than selling him on to a forign club and then get nothing in return

And yes arteta plus another midfielder is exactly what you need imo, great player. Carrick cant play back there on his own.. he needs more freedom to go forward

[mystiroakey]

off course the other option is to get another CD and push jones up(best united have played this yeaR)

But no one seems to want jones in the midfield

[Hammersmith harrier]

You don't have a clue at all, you like so many talk so much crap about things you have no idea about, RVP will not be rejoining Arsenal or any other premier league club.

[mystiroakey]

Not getting involved in an argument with you lad!!!

But look i am not saying United will sell or swap to a rival. I  AM SAYING THEY SHOULD.

But I am saying he is GONE this summer. He is not staying, i just cant see it

[Hammersmith harrier]

Your head has gone if you think we should swap Van Persie back to Arsenal, only one team benefits from that and it isn't United.

You talk as if your warped opinion is fact, it isn't and frankly you should concentrate more on your own team.

[mystiroakey]

Your head has gone if you think we should swap Van Persie back to Arsenal, only one team benefits from that and it isn't United.

You talk as if your warped opinion is fact, it isn't and frankly you should concentrate more on your own team.

calm down buddy.

Its chilled as a palace fan.. we dont expect anything. I can concentrate on your lot for a bit

I personally think swaps are the way to go these days.. To many occasions teams get good money for a player - then get mugged back for a lesser player because the other teams know they have money to spend.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Let me get this straight, you the following deal makes sense and benefits United?

Rvp to Arsenal (desperate for a striker) in return for Arteta (not as good as Carrick) and another player who wont be top class.

[mystiroakey]

first answer the question

What team will pay or give up the most valuable player for RVP?

[Hammersmith harrier]

What i'll do is answer your question with another question, completely bypassing the fact that the point I made makes absolutely no sense.

I hear Chelsea need a striker too, lets give them Rooney in return for Demba Ba and Ashley Cole.

[compelling and rich]

Can Utd afford the three ring circus of chopping and changing managers every six months? Which Manager is going to A/ Want to try and manage this current shambles and B/ if they get rid of Moyes, be confident that they'll be given time to turn it around?

Wouldn't surprise me if they're currently sucking up to Fergie in attempt to lure him back. Wouldn't surprise me if Fergie knew it all along when he retired. "They'll be sh!te, they'll beg me to come back and I'll make a fortune...BWAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAA!"

the next manager is going to come in with not much pressure having taken over from moyes, it simply cant be any worse than it is now so he's going to seem like a miracle worker. complete opposite of what it was six months ago all because of moyes. fergie's master plan all along   

[Hammersmith harrier]

While we're at it does anybody need a goalkeeper because we'll swap De Gea for a couple of their squad players.

[mystiroakey]

While we're at it does anybody need a goalkeeper because we'll swap De Gea for a couple of their squad players.

brilliant idea.

way to miss the point.

clam down buddy. jeasus

[Dolphin Ziggler]

So United should keep Moyes but not back him fully with finances, and then they should try and get Flamini and Arteta? Soldier of Fortune made a whole thread just for these points to be remembered

[mystiroakey]

why dont you do it instead dolph?

sounds like a brilliant waste of time?

[Dolphin Ziggler]

So does that approach to a transfer market

[mystiroakey]

So does that approach to a transfer market

You have totally missed the pointmade anyway.

They are two separate issues..

if RVP is going to force a move- Get some players not just money.

If moyes is going to be giveing a chance- give him some spending money- but not the lot- as you have to be prudent iif it still goes t!ts up, so Man U can still attract a quality proven manager that has some funds to spend.

Now go on- run along and create your thread.

Look you could even do an article on it!!


Sounds amazing!!

I will even back it for the V2 Journal

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Jesus Mysti, way to throw a strop!

Manchester United don't need to be prudent and, more importantly, where do you think these players are gonna go? The new manager will get to work with this massively assembled, reinvigorated squad.

Exchanging with Arsenal for two players they can easily replace, one they likely want rid of, for the calibre of player who could win the league for Arsenal is not clever.

Now go run along and act superior to someone else

[mystiroakey]

Man u have to be prudent anmd they have to be exceptionally clever to get out of this or it truly is Liverpool all over again

they are NOT a citeh, a Chelsea , a Bayern , a barca or a Madrid Financially..


If united can just feel the gaps with ok players - mixed with the few great ones for the short term to see if Moyes can actually do the job. I think thats a very good starting point...

Obviously if there is a way of still utilizing RVP then fine.. But it really seems like he is off..

Off course we have all said the same about Rooney as well.. But what are United going to do- offer RVP 300k as well.

They will become a laughing stock

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I suppose the argument rests on how prudent you mean by prudent, and whether you might be underestimating how astonishingly rich United are

[Dolphin Ziggler]

However, any new manager would still have the players Moyes bought, and the targets will be high standard this summer

[Hammersmith harrier]

You're right we're not City, Madrid or Chelsea but the other two we're richer than. We may have dropped down the richest clubs in the world list which only takes into account turnover but we outstrip everybody else for profit.

I also don't see the need for the constant capital letters, it isn't making any of your points more valid.

[mystiroakey]

well he has had 70 m.

i said another 40m

that prudent

[mystiroakey]

You're right we're not City, Madrid or Chelsea but the other two we're richer than. We may have dropped down the richest clubs in the world list which only takes into account turnover but we outstrip everybody else for profit.

I also don't see the need for the constant capital letters, it isn't making any of your points more valid.

Its about purchasing power mate.

man u are way down the list

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