England vs Ireland, Part 2

First topic message reminder :

For continuing discussion of Ireland vs England in Round 3 of the Six Nations

Previous thread; https://www.606v2.com/t51752-england-vs-ireland

Ireland have released various players to the provinces; starting for Ulster against the Scarlets on Friday are Paddy Jackson, Luke Marshall, Darren Cave and Iain Henderson. Leinster have named Jack McGrath, Sean Cronin, Martin Moore, Mike McCarthy, Rhys Ruddock, Jordi Murphy, Eoin Reddan, Ian Madigan and Fergus McFadden in their team to face Newport-Gwent Dragons. Tommy O'Donnell and Felix Jones will feature for Munster.

There's a lot of competition, mainly for the spots on the bench and possible starts later in the tournament. Can Madigan oust Paddy Jackson? Can Jordi Murphy or Rhys Ruddock force their way in ahead of Tommy O'Donnell? Can McFadden or Simon Zebo force their way into the back three? Who will replace the injured Dan Tuohy; Iain Henderson, Mike McCarthy or Donnacha Ryan? The latter is back from injury and likely to play some part for Munster.

Dan Tuohy has been ruled out of the tournament while Keith Earls, Luke Fitzgerald and Tommy Bowe are still injured and everyone is praying Johnny Sexton doesn't pick up a knock; he's expected to be riding the pine for Racing Metro.

Any English posters want to update us on their squad?

Wilson replaces Cole.

Very surprised as it was clear from watching the Bath v Exeter game that he wasn't fully fit.

Makes me wonder if SL watched the game at all?

It would explain why Ford, Watson, Garvey and Eastmonds never get a look in!

tbf its a like for like replacement if he isnt fully fit

I'd be amazed if he can last the 1st half without asking for a kitkat!  

Poorfour wrote:I imagine John KIngston will be talking to Marler about the weak spots in Ross's scrummaging this week...

Vice versa - Marler has never overly impressed as a scrummager

Playing Wilson is a hell of a risk - shows they have zero confidence in Thomas.

English scrummaging seems a bit thread bare at the moment - there are 3 very good props - Cole, Wilson, Corbisero
and one who is ok Marler

After that it seems to fall of a bit of a cliff

I think the game is lost, our scrum will struggle to give us a stable platfom to play off imo.

I wouldn't go that far but I do think Ireland will target the scrum.

How times have changed

There will be no scrums. England will run total 15 (well 13) man rugby, no fumbles, no knock ons, and all the long kicks will find touch. It will be won in the back 5 of the pack, not in the front 5. Props will do a spot of lifting and tackling occasionally, then wait around while the pretty boys run off with the ball to score those lovely tries.

I saw this in a vision   last night.

I wouldn't get too hung up in setting ourselves up to 'take advantage' of Cole missing.  Afterall, Lancaster has just gotta be a Plan B kinda guy and he'll be aware of how enthusiastic the Irish might feel now about laying down a plan to reap a harvest from the English scrum.  So he must have a Plan B.... he's just gotta have things worked out better than Gatland.

Anyway, I always go back to the French Aussie game a few years ago when the Aussies ran around the grand French plan to totally dominate them at scrumtime.

Eyes and ears open Ireland!

gregortree wrote:There will be no scrums. England will run total 15 (well 13) man rugby, no fumbles, no knock ons, and all the long kicks will find touch. It will be won in the back 5 of the pack, not in the front 5. Props will do a spot of lifting and tackling occasionally, then wait around while the pretty boys run off with the ball to score those lovely tries.

I saw this in a vision   last night.

Ha! Ha! Just what I had in mind! You've been warned Ireland - and it's English lips warning you!

gregortree wrote:There will be no scrums. England will run total 15 (well 13) man rugby, no fumbles, no knock ons, and all the long kicks will find touch. It will be won in the back 5 of the pack, not in the front 5. Props will do a spot of lifting and tackling occasionally, then wait around while the pretty boys run off with the ball to score those lovely tries.

I saw this in a vision   last night.

Have you been drinking flood water again?

If Ireland dominate the set piece I think we'll win - England aren't a team used to being beaten up front and tend not to react well to it.

I'm fairly confident in our lineout but wouldn't presume to have the edge at the scrum time even with Cole out. I wouldn't be surprised at all to be smashed up front.

I think Schmidt may change tack a bit, make England think we are going there to dominate their pack and pull a fly one - use Murray and Heaslip to attack the fringes of the set piece.

A counter Plan B - yep, could be. Schmidt will certainly be thinking about what Lancaster is thinking he's thinking.

Neither man is sleeping well this week with all the thinking to be done on what the opposition must be thinking

Fly, All this thinking and counter thinking sounds like an infinite set of Russian Dolls.

Where does all the counter thinking end eh?

As has been said England don't react well to being dominated at scrum time and someone I'd focus on in particular is Hartley, light the touch paper and stand back. Mind you, Lancs might have him on tranquilisers on saturday as a calming measure.
That's if the Irish scrum does go well mind you, fingers are firmly crossed.

England 36 - Ireland 0

No thinking, counter-thinking, or double-step counter thinking needed.  Ireland just imploded in the second half as per usual.  Lancaster yawns: "Who is next?  Oh them pesky Welshies. Yawn - okay Plan A for them too then - Am I ever going to get to play my Plan B??!!!"

I would say Billy's performance will be key. If England's pack are struggling he'll need to control the ball back at the base well plus as one of England's top attacking weapons he should be key in any attempt to break down the Irish defence.

If Ireland can successfully neutralise Billy then one of England's attacking options will be more limited. At the moment one of England's main ploys is ship the ball to Billy.

SecretFly wrote:England 36 - Ireland 0

No thinking, counter-thinking, or double-step counter thinking needed.  Ireland just imploded in the second half as per usual.  Lancaster yawns: "Who is next?  Oh them pesky Welshies. Yawn - okay Plan A for them too then - Am I ever going to get to play my Plan B??!!!"

But Lancs had no plan for that pesky AUNZer Walsh.
PS: I think Walsh is doing one of the final Irish matches ? good luck boys.

I'd extend that to Care, Farrell and Brown too Beshocked. England have plenty of capacity to score points in broken play.

The battle between Henry and Robshaw will be key as well - both similar players but Robshaw is more proven at this level so Henry needs a big game.

rodders I am referring more to getting over the gainline. Billy is very good at taking the ball into heavy traffic and tieing in defenders.

He creates the space for other players. He's in my opinion the only big carrier in the England forwards.

But when some of your backs look like forwards, that's no big issue, beshocked

Secretfly surely that's the Welsh backs? England's backline has a bit more creativity than the Welsh one in my opinion - certainly when you compare the 9s.

Cole's absence will be missed mostly in the breakdown IMO. Wilson will be fine in the scrum for a while (assuming his stiff back eases) it's getting around to assist in the rucks,mauls etc where I think Wilson will struggle.

The lineout should also be ok as he should be aware of all the calls having been involved before & this week.

I also think England have the edge (controversial I know) in the centre where I think BOD & Darcy are past their best. This isn't intended as a WUM.

They (BOD and D'arcy) are past their best.  (You wouldn't get much argument from BOD on that one and even D'arcy would admit certain aspects of his game ain't what they used to be)  
For sure they are past their best.  But is their best still good enough for one last crack at a 6N Championship?  So far so good.  You only need to be as good as you need to be.  BOD certainly isn't planning on being around for the WC, he isn't a development player; just a retiring one in one final war campaign.  We'll judge them by the end.

SecretFly wrote:A counter Plan B - yep, could be.  Schmidt will certainly be thinking about what Lancaster is thinking he's thinking.

Neither man is sleeping well this week with all the thinking to be done on what the opposition must be thinking

Ahhh... but now then. Is he thinking about what SL is thinking because he will know that he too is thinking about what he is thinking and will think that he could be thinking about something else. In essence thinking about thinking whilst thinking that his thinking could be out thought. Think about it.

Personally I think he is thinking about cheese.

Metal Tiger wrote:

SecretFly wrote:A counter Plan B - yep, could be.  Schmidt will certainly be thinking about what Lancaster is thinking he's thinking.

Neither man is sleeping well this week with all the thinking to be done on what the opposition must be thinking

Ahhh... but now then. Is he thinking about what SL is thinking because he will know that he too is thinking about what he is thinking and will think that he could be thinking about something else. In essence thinking about thinking whilst thinking that his thinking could be out thought. Think about it.

Personally I think he is thinking about cheese.

Ive just bought a cheese and branston pickle baguette. But when i opened it...it was cheese and red onion...  ...what a let down...

Just finished my cheese and pickle (Asda smart price) baguette, I'm thinking about Supper already!

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Metal Tiger wrote:

SecretFly wrote:A counter Plan B - yep, could be.  Schmidt will certainly be thinking about what Lancaster is thinking he's thinking.

Neither man is sleeping well this week with all the thinking to be done on what the opposition must be thinking

Ahhh... but now then. Is he thinking about what SL is thinking because he will know that he too is thinking about what he is thinking and will think that he could be thinking about something else. In essence thinking about thinking whilst thinking that his thinking could be out thought. Think about it.

Personally I think he is thinking about cheese.

Ive just bought a cheese and branston pickle baguette. But when i opened it...it was cheese and red onion...  ...what a let down...

The Branston is what kept it a perfect balance of French & British ingrediants... now it's just French. 

Demand a full refund.

Was it nice Scurmpy?   

GeordieFalcon wrote:Was it nice Scurmpy?   

It wasn't bad, but I've had better.

Scrumpy wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Was it nice Scurmpy?   

It wasn't bad, but I've had better.

Dammit... I have now GOT to go to the pub and have a Ploughmans Lunch.

Cheese & pickle mmmmmmmmm

Can we not mention the P word please...i had my heart set on it...only to be dashed with the sight of red onion...  

I love cheese and onion, but not at work!

I used to work with a guy who would eat a garlic roll for lunch, I'm not talking a couple slices of garlic but 4 or 5 bulbs, and the smell was horrendous.   

Back on topic:

Daily Mail's ENGLAND TEAM TO FACE IRELAND

ENGLAND: M Brown (Harlequins); J Nowell (Exeter), L Burrell (Northampton), B Twelvetrees (Gloucester), J May (Gloucester); O Farrell (Saracens), D Care (Harlequins); J Marler (Harlequins), D Hartley (Northampton), D Wilson (Bath); J Launchbury (Wasps), C Lawes (Northampton); T Wood (Northampton), B Vunipola (Saracens), C Robshaw (Harlequins. capt).

REPLACEMENTS: T Youngs (Leicester), M Vunipola (Saracens), H Thomas (Sale), D Attwood (Bath), B Morgan (Gloucester), L Dickson (Northampton), G Ford (Bath), A Goode (Saracens).

Garlic? - the stench of either super Health! - or - the stench of a vampire hunter.

I must have some vampire blood in me ...as must Scrumpy.

Pretty much the team we would suspect. And Wilson must be ok.

It just makes me wonder how much they rate Henry Thomas?
Surely you trust your back up prop in the senior squad to take over if theirs any doubt about Wilson.

Says to me they have doubts about some part of his game.

Id have brookes in there and start the big fecker...

Assuming that's right, we're looking at Wilson in for Cole and Ford in for Barritt (on the bench)?

I made my own sarnies. Wholemeal rolls with ham, cheese, lettuce and HP sauce. Not bad.

SecretFly wrote:Garlic? -  the stench of either super Health! - or - the stench of a vampire hunter.

I must have some vampire blood in me ...as must Scrumpy.

If you expect Garlic...fair enough...but when your expecting Branston Pickles and get .....red onions theres a sinking feeling inside....this afternoon will be tough  

Ham and Cheese Cyril? Was it good?

GeordieFalcon wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Garlic? -  the stench of either super Health! - or - the stench of a vampire hunter.

I must have some vampire blood in me ...as must Scrumpy.

If you expect Garlic...fair enough...but when your expecting Branston Pickles and get .....red onions theres a sinking feeling inside....this afternoon will be tough   

You should be well accustomed with that sinking feeling inside being a Falcons supporter by now Geordie.

Ah mate its not easy being a sports fan from up here at the moment...ive seen local school teams playing better rugby than us at the moment....and the clowns at that circus they call St James well least said the better....

GeordieFalcon wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Garlic? -  the stench of either super Health! - or - the stench of a vampire hunter.

I must have some vampire blood in me ...as must Scrumpy.

If you expect Garlic...fair enough...but when your expecting Branston Pickles and get .....red onions theres a sinking feeling inside....this afternoon will be tough  

Ham and Cheese Cyril? Was it good?

It was. Although my colleague has just come back from the shop with a bhagi burger so I'm a little envious now  

Scrumpy wrote:Back on topic:

Daily Mail's ENGLAND TEAM TO FACE IRELAND

ENGLAND: M Brown (Harlequins); J Nowell (Exeter), L Burrell (Northampton), B Twelvetrees (Gloucester), J May (Gloucester); O Farrell (Saracens), D Care (Harlequins); J Marler (Harlequins), D Hartley (Northampton), D Wilson (Bath); J Launchbury (Wasps), C Lawes (Northampton); T Wood (Northampton), B Vunipola (Saracens), C Robshaw (Harlequins. capt).

REPLACEMENTS: T Youngs (Leicester), M Vunipola (Saracens), H Thomas (Sale), D Attwood (Bath), B Morgan (Gloucester), L Dickson (Northampton), G Ford (Bath), A Goode (Saracens).

As expected. Starting line up solid, although I would expect that Wilson will struggle to last long into the 2nd half. As for the subs OK but not Goode....

Team as expected, although surprising to see Ford come in, a good surprise. If 36 or Burrell got injured would we assume that Ford would come on and Farrell to play at 12?

I live in France so had a typical French lunch...chicken tandoori

I'm getting tired talking now...roll on the French v Welsh game.  These 6N breaks are a pain in the butt....  B sides should play to keep the thing going for five solid weeks!  There ain't enough chat to keep this thing going for seven!

I fancy Rory Best to line up Hartley early on, they've a great relationship those lads.

SecretFly wrote:I'm getting tired talking now...roll on the French v Welsh game.  These 6N breaks are a pain in the butt....  B sides should play to keep the thing going for five solid weeks!  There ain't enough chat to keep this thing going for seven!

What do you call your evening meal?

Tea, Dinner, Supper etc...

I like to call it Supper as to me it sounds more appealing.   

lostinwales wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:Back on topic:

Daily Mail's ENGLAND TEAM TO FACE IRELAND

ENGLAND: M Brown (Harlequins); J Nowell (Exeter), L Burrell (Northampton), B Twelvetrees (Gloucester), J May (Gloucester); O Farrell (Saracens), D Care (Harlequins); J Marler (Harlequins), D Hartley (Northampton), D Wilson (Bath); J Launchbury (Wasps), C Lawes (Northampton); T Wood (Northampton), B Vunipola (Saracens), C Robshaw (Harlequins. capt).

REPLACEMENTS: T Youngs (Leicester), M Vunipola (Saracens), H Thomas (Sale), D Attwood (Bath), B Morgan (Gloucester), L Dickson (Northampton), G Ford (Bath), A Goode (Saracens).

As  expected.  Starting line up solid, although I would expect that Wilson will struggle to last long into the 2nd half. As for the subs OK but not Goode....

Good team. Big shame about Cole. Ireland probably wont dominate the scrum but when our 2nd choice front row comes on towards the end England may tire up front.

Scrumpy wrote:

SecretFly wrote:I'm getting tired talking now...roll on the French v Welsh game.  These 6N breaks are a pain in the butt....  B sides should play to keep the thing going for five solid weeks!  There ain't enough chat to keep this thing going for seven!

What do you call your evening meal?

Tea, Dinner, Supper etc...

I like to call it Supper as to me it sounds more appealing.   

Evening meal for me is generally called Tea...and as I tend to eat a little and often (graze) that's sometimes mostly all it is! Tea!

Good News!!

Just seen an artical on TV that said Morris Dancing is finally dying off.

Not rugby related at all. Just thought I'd share.  

Well that IS good news! It must have failed the EU Directive on Silly Dancing. That's why everyone should leave Europe this instant. It only has one good Directive that is working perfectly.

Yorkshire folk do it with swords!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Sword_dance