England vs Ireland, Part 2

First topic message reminder :

For continuing discussion of Ireland vs England in Round 3 of the Six Nations

Previous thread; https://www.606v2.com/t51752-england-vs-ireland

Ireland have released various players to the provinces; starting for Ulster against the Scarlets on Friday are Paddy Jackson, Luke Marshall, Darren Cave and Iain Henderson. Leinster have named Jack McGrath, Sean Cronin, Martin Moore, Mike McCarthy, Rhys Ruddock, Jordi Murphy, Eoin Reddan, Ian Madigan and Fergus McFadden in their team to face Newport-Gwent Dragons. Tommy O'Donnell and Felix Jones will feature for Munster.

There's a lot of competition, mainly for the spots on the bench and possible starts later in the tournament. Can Madigan oust Paddy Jackson? Can Jordi Murphy or Rhys Ruddock force their way in ahead of Tommy O'Donnell? Can McFadden or Simon Zebo force their way into the back three? Who will replace the injured Dan Tuohy; Iain Henderson, Mike McCarthy or Donnacha Ryan? The latter is back from injury and likely to play some part for Munster.

Dan Tuohy has been ruled out of the tournament while Keith Earls, Luke Fitzgerald and Tommy Bowe are still injured and everyone is praying Johnny Sexton doesn't pick up a knock; he's expected to be riding the pine for Racing Metro.

Any English posters want to update us on their squad?

For me, its got to be dinner. Even Dins if i'm in a rush.

Metal Tiger wrote:Good News!!

Just seen an artical on TV that said Morris Dancing is finally dying off.

Not rugby related at all. Just thought I'd share.  

Is that right!

The trouble is now that it’s been on TV there be loads of silly people that will now join their local 'Morris Dancing Club' to save it for future generations.   

Ref. bulking up the front row.

Breakfast = first thing
Midday = Lunch
Mid afternoon = tea
Evening = Dinner !
Late evening = supper
You can't have dinner at lunchtime, because then, when would you have your lunch ?
And you can't have tea after 4pm, as it would clash with dinner.

If the England dieticians would ony follow the simple rules of meal etiquette, there'd be no more silly talk about Englands' front row lacking bulk.

gregortree wrote:Ref. bulking up the front row.

Breakfast = first thing
Midday = Lunch
Mid afternoon = tea
Evening = Dinner !
Late evening = supper
You can't have dinner at lunchtime, because then, when would you have your lunch ?
And you can't have tea after 4pm, as it would clash with dinner.

If the England dieticians would ony follow the simple rules of meal etiquette, there'd be no more silly  talk about Englands' front row lacking bulk.

I can't do without my elevenses.

Scrumpy wrote:

gregortree wrote:Ref. bulking up the front row.

Breakfast = first thing
Midday = Lunch
Mid afternoon = tea
Evening = Dinner !
Late evening = supper
You can't have dinner at lunchtime, because then, when would you have your lunch ?
And you can't have tea after 4pm, as it would clash with dinner.

If the England dieticians would ony follow the simple rules of meal etiquette, there'd be no more silly  talk about Englands' front row lacking bulk.

I can't do without my elevenses.

Love a spot of High Tea...

GeordieFalcon wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Garlic? -  the stench of either super Health! - or - the stench of a vampire hunter.

I must have some vampire blood in me ...as must Scrumpy.

If you expect Garlic...fair enough...but when your expecting Branston Pickles and get .....red onions theres a sinking feeling inside....this afternoon will be tough  

Ham and Cheese Cyril? Was it good?

Read this Geordie http://www.espn.co.uk/england/rugby/story/215173.html two of the names on that list will cheer you up at least.

Oh and I had steak for breakfast this morning  

Anyway............ back to business.  Are both English and Irish fans naturally going to be for Wales in their game against France?  Or would France winning actually be a counter-intuitive good result for each...for different reasons? IE - better to kill off one threat than have too many teams with too much hope.

SecretFly wrote:Anyway............ back to business.  Are both English and Irish fans naturally going to be for Wales in their game against France?  Or would France winning actually be a counter-intuitive good result for each...for different reasons?  IE - better to kill off one threat than have too many teams with too much hope.

I'd have to say France as I think Ireland will do a number on France regardless of the weekend's result.

Incidentally I see BOD has missed training with a stomach bug. Any more of the team for a dose of the RFUs Norovirus?

The RFU scientists working in Dublin nightspots as cooks...
Yep, we've had a bit of the old tummy bug stuff throughout this 6N.

I think people are saying O'Driscoll hopes to be okay by Thursday and is still in the mix for selection. But that could change.

I was initially thinking I'd like Wales to win to cut France's momentum and sink their GS expectations, (which might serve to lessen their emotional involvement - just a tad, but a tad is often enough)  

But then I asked myself, do you really want to meet a France on their home ground feeling annoyed that they let Wales get to them?  Wouldn't it be better to have them feeling cocke-sure and expecting a nice victory?

So, strategically, I think I need France to win - and of course, needing Ireland to win too to make the whole plan mean something!

But even if we lost to England, I still think it would be better to meet a happy France than one intent on making someone pay for a defeat.

SecretFly wrote:Anyway............ back to business.  Are both English and Irish fans naturally going to be for Wales in their game against France?  Or would France winning actually be a counter-intuitive good result for each...for different reasons?  IE - better to kill off one threat than have too many teams with too much hope.

Whilst I would happily cheer on Ireland or Scotland against etc. against France I just can't bring myself to support Wales.

Don't think that this is because I have a ABW mentality like those sad individuals who are ABE.

I want a French victory because it kills off the Welsh challenge. Then it sets up a nice winner takes all Grandslam game between Ireland & France.

Assuming of course that Ireland don't slip up against little old underdog England  

I want a French victory because Wales coming third or lower would more then make up for any French grandslam.   

I want Wales to win. We are going to be looking to and capable of beating Wales anyway and the sooner someone derails France the better. Also I support the home nations over France. And if France are motivated against Ireland, hopefully Ireland will only win narrowly

Any win will do us over France provided we've already slipped by England and if we're absolutely ruthless as we can be with Italy.  

We need to try to put a cricket score on Italy.  It really is the game where we'll have to try to boost our points difference, even if we lose to England (by hopefully not much in a big scoring game if it has to be )

Italy will be our points amassing game if we can at all.  They'll have other ideas of course and might just maybe go ahead and beat us, killing everything in one sly strike from the bottom like a shark.

But we are going to beat you, so your post doesn't stand

No it still stands, Chequered...Championship is still on even if we lose to you.... (if you beat us by a little...in a big scoring game! - all the better )

England squad annoucement;

Forwards: David Attwood, Dylan Hartley, Joe Launchbury, Courtney Lawes, Joe Marler, Ben Morgan, Chris Robshaw, Henry Thomas, Billy Vunipola, Mako Vunipola, David Wilson, Tom Wood, Tom Youngs.

Backs: Mike Brown, Luther Burrell, Danny Care, Lee Dickson, Owen Farrell, George Ford, Alex Goode, Jonny May, Jack Nowell, Billy Twelvetrees.

http://www.espn.co.uk/six-nations-2014/rugby/story/215143.html

yappysnap wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Garlic? -  the stench of either super Health! - or - the stench of a vampire hunter.

I must have some vampire blood in me ...as must Scrumpy.

If you expect Garlic...fair enough...but when your expecting Branston Pickles and get .....red onions theres a sinking feeling inside....this afternoon will be tough  

Ham and Cheese Cyril? Was it good?

Read this Geordie http://www.espn.co.uk/england/rugby/story/215173.html two of the names on that list will cheer you up at least.

Oh and I had steak for breakfast this morning  

Steak? Hope with a fried egg on.

As or the link. Yeah it's great to see Brookes and Scott in there. Brookes has been fantastic when he's played as has Scott Wilson.

What's happened to the likes of Sinkler, Knight etc all these promising,THs that were coming through.

O'Driscoll has caught a bit of the 'All Blacks' in the run up to the game. i know he's due to equal the record caps number but shouldn't he sit out the game if he's not going to be fully up to speed (may be wishful thinknig on my part!).

Two schools of thought on the Wales v France result from an Irish perspective;

1) A Wales win would kill French momentum (good for Ireland)
2) A France win would mean they continue to pick Plisson and Basteraud (good for Ireland)

A draw might take care of both...

GeordieFalcon wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Garlic? -  the stench of either super Health! - or - the stench of a vampire hunter.

I must have some vampire blood in me ...as must Scrumpy.

If you expect Garlic...fair enough...but when your expecting Branston Pickles and get .....red onions theres a sinking feeling inside....this afternoon will be tough  

Ham and Cheese Cyril? Was it good?

Read this Geordie http://www.espn.co.uk/england/rugby/story/215173.html two of the names on that list will cheer you up at least.

Oh and I had steak for breakfast this morning  

Steak? Hope with a fried egg on.

As or the link. Yeah it's great to see Brookes and Scott in there. Brookes has been fantastic when he's played as has Scott Wilson.

What's happened to the likes of Sinkler, Knight etc all these promising,THs that were coming through.

I see Balmain is mentioned in that article too. I wonder when these guys will have a chance of stepping up? (Cole injured might be very good news for Balmain)

In the end if you win all your games then you win the championship, no matter how results go. Their next game vs. England is their crunch game.

If Ireland lose to England I think its championship race over for them... their record vs. France is terrible. Even Italy has a better record. I can't see them going to France and winning if they lose to England.

fa0019 wrote:In the end if you win all your games then you win the championship, no matter how results go. Their next game vs. England is their crunch game.

If Ireland lose to England I think its championship race over for them... their record vs. France is terrible. Even Italy has a better record. I can't see them going to France and winning if they lose to England.

thats the annoying thing. You shouldn't be so afraid of France- you can beat them.. If England lose to france its only by margins but have recently won way more. Ireland v France have had some cracking games recently and very close(you have drawn the last two games and the 3 before although you lost you only lost by a total of 14 points- there is a hair splitting the two teams over the last 5 years)..Think about winning that game after we(england stuff you) this weekend.. Otherwise is France on for a GS.

I cant see Wales beating them this year- You are the only hope to keep the championship alive

Alternatively they could put on a great display and beat us convincingly...and go to France in great confidence.

Ireland can definitely beat France, despite the result in Round 1 England are the tougher opponents.

I think Wales will beat France. Which is good for us- but both these games could go either way, and the results this weekend will very possibly decide the championship.

On the contrary I think Wales will beat France. I don't think France are a GS team, England had them on the ropes for a long time with a very inexperienced team especially given their start.

This French side don't look fit. But I do think if they have wind in their sails come the final game and Ireland have to beat France and then hope on points difference it will be an easy run in for them.

fa0019 wrote:On the contrary I think Wales will beat France. I don't think France are a GS team, England had them on the ropes for a long time with a very inexperienced team especially given their start.

This French side don't look fit. But I do think if they have wind in their sails come the final game and Ireland have to beat France and then hope on points difference it will be an easy run in for them.

If the Irish have a mental block and lose, and  the welsh cant raise there game- then they will be a GS team by default.

But from a tourney perspective if England beat Ireland and Wales beat France we have a cracking 6 nations on our hands- that will go down to the wire

If Ireland lose this weekend and France win, I'd say France will definitely be champions and vice versa. The best possible result for the neutrals is if Ireland and France both win. Who doesn't love a good old fashioned Grand Slam decider in Round 5?

Mind you, France being France they could contrive to win in Cardiff and lose in Edinburgh

there are no neutrals in this game Notch..

if there are still 4 teams in with a shot come final day then its the best for more people

mystiroakey wrote:there are no neutrals in this game Notch..

if there are still 4 teams in with a shot come final day then its the best for more people

Scots?

Do the scots really care who wins the 6nations?

Anyway I personally hate final day GS games.. We allways lose them

mystiroakey wrote:Do the scots really care who wins the 6nations?

Anyway I personally hate final day GS games.. We allways lose them

Perhaps not. But if they win against Italy, and France and Ireland lose their games............... they're certainly theoretically back in the mix for a more respectable position than last or even second last after their disastrous start. So they'll be interested in the maths for sure.

What a freaking great tournament this is! Let's hope for tension's sake that we get an Ireland loss, France loss and Scotland win.

mystiroakey wrote:Do the scots really care who wins the 6nations?

Anyway I personally hate final day GS games.. We allways lose them

in 3 letters

ABE

Breakfast = first thing
Midday = Lunch
Mid afternoon = tea
Evening = Dinner !
Late evening = supper

I can't do without my elevenses.

Love a spot of High Tea....

You need to fit in some time for the NAAFI Break....

Chjw131 wrote:What a freaking great tournament this is! Let's hope for tension's sake that we get an Ireland loss, France loss and Scotland win.

Can I be for Ireland again then the following week? If for tension's sake I'm against my own side two weeks in a row.............. emmm, well it gets dicey on the old treason laws.  They'd be erecting a scaffold.

TrailApe wrote:

Breakfast = first thing
Midday = Lunch
Mid afternoon = tea
Evening = Dinner !
Late evening = supper

I can't do without my elevenses.

Love a spot of High Tea....

You need to fit in some time for the NAAFI Break....

Surely then England's traditional meals programme must give us the biggest players ?

or fat Hobbits......

Well as a Welsh point of view i want France and Ireland to lose

TrailApe wrote:or fat Hobbits......

is Matt Stevens playing ?

fat Hobbitzez...roasted, my Loves - tasty .............mmmmmmm

I wouldnt be at all surprised to see France win the GS without having played a single outstanding game.

ahhhh.. another one of those devalued GSs then ?

If France win without playing one single outstanding game then they'll still deserve the GS.  It's not about showing-off unfortunately, but about consistency through a series of five games apiece.

Plus - they still have Wales and Ireland to play.  Surely Wales isn't a bad side over-night.  Bad day at the races against Ireland, they could yet stoke up an engine plenty hard enough to push on again in the competition.  If Wales play to their potential and if Ireland do so, then France have still time to have a single outstanding game to pull off a GS.

TrailApe wrote:

Breakfast = first thing
Midday = Lunch
Mid afternoon = tea
Evening = Dinner !
Late evening = supper

I can't do without my elevenses.

Love a spot of High Tea....

You need to fit in some time for the NAAFI Break....

You've missed out brunch

And I do believe it was Homer S who discovered a meal between breakfast and brunch.

Every GS is devalued...

Everyone knows that

mystiroakey wrote:Every GS is devalued...

Everyone knows that

I actually sincerely agree with that including the 2009 Grand Slam and any future Slams Ireland may or may not win. When you compare the quality of rugby we play in our tournament to what the All Blacks are doing, we are all just so many bald men fighting over a rather underwhelming comb. You want to be the best, you want to beat the best teams in the world, and winning a Six Nations grand slam is not necessarily an indicator that you can be the best or beat the best teams in the world. It's just a slightly devalued claim to local bragging rights until you back it up by winning a World Cup or beating the All Blacks.

A devalued crown that I will be ecstatic about Ireland winning come March, if we are so lucky as good as I think we can be

Italy are in it = Devalued
Scotland try to play it on a freshly ploughed field = Devalued
Wales win it too often = Devalued
France win when the Lions boys is jaded and knackered = Devalued
England turn their noses up at it because it ain't the WC = Devalued
Ireland show up once every 90 years or so = Devalued

The IRB should kill the competition off and allow more time to be devoted to the Club gyme!!!!!

I didnt say devalued actually. I think there have been good performances and hope there will be more in the weekends to come.

But there is always possibilities in these kinds of tournaments that a lot of 'just good enough' together with a little luck and the odd moment of individual genius is enough to win the GS.