England vs Ireland, Part 2

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You beauties...

What a crackin game....

POM was kept quiet by Woodshaw as predicted

Scrumpy wrote:I thought the scrums looked stronger once Thomas came on

I agree with that Scrumpy. Also thought Atwood looked good.

JmD wrote:

Heaf wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:Proves the ref is in England's pocket two reasons for a penalty in that scrum.

Joubert at twickenham...

So why did he let Ireland stop an English try by tackling May around the head and let POC obstruct Launchberry for the Ireland try?

Because neither of those things happened.

Can we now agree that D'Arcy needs to call it a day internationally now? He is a passenger at best and today he was consistently killing promising moves, getting turned over in contact, he just doesn't offer anything any more.

They can both clearly be seen so I don't know how you can say they didn't happen … there was even plenty of post game comment about the POC obstruction saying it was a 'clever' play

mystiroakey wrote:

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I'm well aware oakey as I am of their tough group. I said England will be a force to reckon with at home and of course they'll be a big ask in any RWC game. I'm just referring to Woodward's comments at the end of the game (he basically said disney that today's win really sets up this young England side and we're only going to see better things.) If England had lost today nothing much would have changed. England would've still been a very good side and Ireland are showing they're heading in the right direction as well. The fact that they did win and suddenly we're to believe it's onto higher things from now is simply premature.

Besides, it doesn't kill my argument because England haven't won the RWC yet. Like I said they're a side to be reckoned with but there are other sides who are just as likely to win as well. Today didn't change that. I say well earned win from England and they'll certainly take confidence from beating this very handy Ireland side. But let's not fall into hyperbole. Today's result didn't reveal anything we didn't know before.

woodward is one of VERY few winning RWC winners.

I dont agree with everything he says- but it cracks me up that people disrespect so much- He knows more about rugby than all off us times 10..

Agree with that too Mysti

stub wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:I thought the scrums looked stronger once Thomas came on

I agree with that Scrumpy. Also thought Atwood looked good.

That's because Attwood is.


Something has to be done about these Irish head tackles though as it's only a matter of time before one of them seriously injures someone.

GunsGerms wrote:Was POM playing today anyone know?

Aahh there you are Mr Liam Toland

He made quite a few important turnovers and some good runs but don't let that cloud your judgement

stub wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I'm well aware oakey as I am of their tough group. I said England will be a force to reckon with at home and of course they'll be a big ask in any RWC game. I'm just referring to Woodward's comments at the end of the game (he basically said disney that today's win really sets up this young England side and we're only going to see better things.) If England had lost today nothing much would have changed. England would've still been a very good side and Ireland are showing they're heading in the right direction as well. The fact that they did win and suddenly we're to believe it's onto higher things from now is simply premature.

Besides, it doesn't kill my argument because England haven't won the RWC yet. Like I said they're a side to be reckoned with but there are other sides who are just as likely to win as well. Today didn't change that. I say well earned win from England and they'll certainly take confidence from beating this very handy Ireland side. But let's not fall into hyperbole. Today's result didn't reveal anything we didn't know before.

woodward is one of VERY few winning RWC winners.

I dont agree with everything he says- but it cracks me up that people disrespect so much- He knows more about rugby than all off us times 10..

Agree with that too Mysti

+2 

The guys a legend

You don't agree with everything he says, well I don't agree with what he said today. It was a good England win, they're finally getting some consistency and there's much to be optimistic but they've still got a few issues such as in the inside backs.

Well done England today and let's just leave it at that.   

Scrumpy wrote:

stub wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:I thought the scrums looked stronger once Thomas came on

I agree with that Scrumpy. Also thought Atwood looked good.

That's because Attwood is.


Something has to be done about these Irish head tackles though as it's only a matter of time before one of them seriously injures someone.

Yeah the English players were complaining about it all the way through the game.Oh,wait........

Burrell was alright indeed. He is what he is - big, strong, quick and direct. He could be very effective taking offloads from someone like Tuilagi (could one play 1st centre?)

Care was also decent, great support for his try but I'd have one big gripe with him. Watched this in the pub so not sure if it was highlighted but there were two occasions, one in the first half about 3 or 4 phases before May dropped the ball, and another in the second half when England were also 5 metres out from the line again. The overlaps they had out wide were huge, there was no cover and the fact that they weren't used was criminal. In the case of the second half they actually went the wrong way. It was unbelievable and the SH has to open his eyes.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:You don't agree with everything he says, well I don't agree with what he said today. It was a good England win, they're finally getting some consistency and there's much to be optimistic but they've still got a few issues such as in the inside backs.

Well done England today and let's just leave it at that.   

aye But when I dont agree with him- i understand I am probably wrong

That's because you're always wrong!   

Only joking mate. Enjoy your win.

wrong- right- what does it even mean.

thanks

By the way- Quick though on May.

I like him!!

What to do about the England scrum?

Hope Wilson gets better with training and time? Try Thomas? Call up Brookes?

wilson- that fat flump..

nah mate.. he needs to be minced- it would solve the world hunger crises..

May needs to back himself and run straight more often, Nowell needs to look for space a little more. Both have faults just like any other player but they both provide a lot as well.

36 played a lot better then people give him credit. Everyone seems to expect him to play like Fofana, but he's not that type of player. He tackled well, organised the England rush defence and carried hard as well. He still needs to work on his focus and game management but with more caps that'll come.

Launchberry's tap tackle at the end of the game there, after 79 minutes of some of the toughest rugby this season was just immense. Total commitment.

mystiroakey wrote:wilson- that fat flump..

nah mate.. he needs to be minced- it would solve the world hunger crises..

Is he any worse than the vunipolas's? to be fair to him compared to last week he looks a lot fitter.

May 'the crab' butchered two tries today, typical glaws rubbish!

Morgan should start over vinipola..

He offers more dimemsion.

The lumps do one thing only.

Billy V's offloading has really improved though mysty!

Scrumpy wrote:May 'the crab' butchered two tries today, typical glaws rubbish!

Love may.. loads of potential.. he has good vision and quick feet

May does need to run straight though, and there was one pass to Brown under pressure in our 22 by the sideline that literally had me questioning whether he was on speed or something, such was the panicky stupidity of it

Good one Joe leave Ireland's most exciting and dangerous back at home. And then take Healy off at a 5 metre scrum when we are killing them in the scrum and bring on McGrath. Then bring on mr average McFadden. As much as joe got it right last week he got it wrong this week and had no plan b because he had the wrong personnel.

Mike Brown (MAN OF THE MATCH) And truly well deserved as well.

BlueMuff wrote:Good one Joe leave Ireland's most exciting and dangerous back at home. And then take Healy off at a 5 metre scrum when we are killing them in the scrum and bring on McGrath. Then bring on mr average McFadden. As much as joe got it right last week he got it wrong this week and had no plan be because he had the wrong personnel.

Yes, this and more.

Sexton was floundering and D'Arcy was struggling. This is why I am yet to be convinced by JS. His substitutions at critical moments cost Ireland the match.

England were deserved winners but JS has to take a long look at himself after this.

I don't get that criticism of Schmidt at all lads. One set move he gave us if Kearney took the ball from the Trimble offload he was under the posts. In another he did take the ball, and did get under the posts. Those are two set plays the coaches have come up with, one is a try and one is very nearly a try.

We saw some good back line moves from Ireland creating the overlaps, a different game plan to deal with England- it just didn't work out, mainly because we executed our territorial kicking game poorly and England got their kicking game right. Also our kick chase wasn't good enough and we slipped too many tackles. Missed tackles weren't in the game plan, especially when the kicks to their back three are a bit too long and then we slip off the tackle and let them run it back at us. That killed us.

Sexton was floundering, maybe thats the only call that could have been made- D'Arcy and O'Driscoll I thought had really excellent games. I have no problem with him trusting the likes of McGrath and Henderson to come on, or the subs in general because if you don't trust him they shouldn't be there. He could have maybe trusted Jackson to come on as well.

ChequeredJersey wrote:POM was kept quiet by Woodshaw as predicted

I had to check the line ups to see that POM played, jesus that boy did nothing of note. I do think he's HUGELY overated by some posters on here, he's a decent flank but no Ferris.

POM aside I thought the Irish pack went well and had the upperhand through most of the game. We just played better in the right areas of the pitch although we should have put more on the board with our territory advantage.

May/Nowell are still very much work in progress, both made some big errors. I'm stillnot convinced Nowell is ready for this level of rugby, nothing has shown otherwise in 3 caps.

To be fair, lots of top flankers have had quiet games against the Woodshaw combo, they are class

Yea they are CJ, I just wish they were better at the breakdown. How good was Launchbury today, made some great steals.

Notch our back play had been nothing short of pedestrian for the last 3 games more cutting edge in a blunt knife. Darcy and bod are past their brilliant best sone time ago. We are totally dependant on our pack to dominate and when that didn't happen we had nothing to fall back on.

And again the subs were madness when will you recognise that taking Healey and best off was just madness

The pack shares the breakdown work, Wood and Robshaw are good there it's just Cole and Launchbury do tonnes of work there too

Lads there is no point in scapegoating anyone for the defeat, be it D'arcy, Sexton or Schmidt. I think it's fair to say that we are around the same level as England and Wales now and that is a massive jump from where we were last year.

D'arcy had a pretty strong game I thought as did BOD who was surprisingly one of our best performers. Sexton certainly wasn't at his best and I have a feeling he picked up a niggle early in the second half but even so I don't see how Jackson would have won the game for us.

As for Schmidt, he probably shouldn't have brought off Healy but beat in mind we would never have scored that try in the Kidney era.
However as the game started to open up in the last 20 do you not think that would have been the perfect chance to unleash Zebo on tiring defences?

ChequeredJersey wrote:The pack shares the breakdown work, Wood and Robshaw are good there it's just Cole and Launchbury do tonnes of work there too

Yea I know, I just love to see a top 7 with strong technique over the ball. Really can stop a team building a head of steam, we just don't have that type backrower.

I think England definitely targeted POM. I don't think he had a particularly bad game, he's a very good lineout option and won at least one turnover I think but I think Robshaw and Wood did their homework on him.

Fraser will get there soon if he stays fit...

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:POM was kept quiet by Woodshaw as predicted

I had to check the line ups to see that POM played, jesus that boy did nothing of note. I do think he's HUGELY overated by some posters on here, he's a decent flank but no Ferris.

POM aside I thought the Irish pack went well and had the upperhand through most of the game. We just played better in the right areas of the pitch although we should have put more on the board with our territory advantage.

May/Nowell are still very much work in progress, both made some big errors. I'm stillnot convinced Nowell is ready for this level of rugby, nothing has shown otherwise in 3 caps.

Why single out Pom what about heaslip or Henry?

theslosty wrote:I think England definitely targeted POM. I don't think he had a particularly bad game, he's a very good lineout option and won at least one turnover I think but I think Robshaw and Wood did their homework on him.

I'm not so sure, of all the players to target POM would be near the bottom of my list.

BlueMuff wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:POM was kept quiet by Woodshaw as predicted

I had to check the line ups to see that POM played, jesus that boy did nothing of note. I do think he's HUGELY overated by some posters on here, he's a decent flank but no Ferris.

POM aside I thought the Irish pack went well and had the upperhand through most of the game. We just played better in the right areas of the pitch although we should have put more on the board with our territory advantage.

May/Nowell are still very much work in progress, both made some big errors. I'm stillnot convinced Nowell is ready for this level of rugby, nothing has shown otherwise in 3 caps.

Why single out Pom what about heaslip or Henry?

Heaslip was probably our best backrower today. Henry was quiet but then he usually is, I'll have to check the stats in order to verify the "unseen work".

Lots of interesting comments here for sure.

Firstly, well done Ireland and Schmidt for changing up the tactics well. A cracking 6N match. It was our toughest Test so far and I'm stoked we carried the day.

Huge credit to Davy Wilson who, despite a couple of instances and all the media focus stood up very well and lasted 69 minutes of a hugely intense Test match. I though the scrum swung both ways and was a far better contest than the Friday night offering.

Brown and Kearny were absolutely class acts. Brown is growing in a way I never thought he would and he's now a player we can build a back three around. I thought May looked good at times and Nowell had some good touches and some poor ones. The butchering of the initial 'try' was disappointing from Farrell who looked good in defence but didn't take that many positive options.

Great closing out in the last 15 mins and I thought subbing Tom Wood was the right thing to do. Attwood was very physical when he came on and added hugely in the scrum. Thomas also didn't let himself down.

In all a superb test match and deservedly extremely close. What a great looking table now!

BlueMuff wrote:Notch our back play had been nothing short of pedestrian for the last 3 games more cutting edge in a blunt knife. Darcy and bod are past their brilliant best sone time ago. We are totally dependant on our pack to dominate and when that didn't happen we had nothing to fall back on.

And again the subs were madness when will you recognise that taking Healey and best off was just madness

Hold on, this is a very talented bench we have thats only going to get better; especially the front rows. I'd have faith in any of the bench to come on- we used to moan about his predecessors not trusting other players so this seems just like an excuse to have a moan. Given the form he's in we lose nothing in the scrum with a fresh Jack McGrath and in the last few minutes Cronin with his ball carrying is what we needed. We showed nothing in the backs in the first two games but tonight we had two set moves off line outs that bust them open, and Kearney could have easily finished the other move off as well. We created multiple overlaps off loop plays in the middle of the field and the centres consistently crossed the gain line so not sure about what that criticism is about.

It seems like we weren't watching the same game. I thought we lost because off a poor kicking game from the halfbacks, a poor chasing game and just a small fraction off in terms of the defence being a bit too passive and missing too many tackles. Those are the key factors- we just didn't get the accuracy in those parts of the game. Gotta give credit to the way England defended as well.

I think it's fair to criticise Schmidt for a few things, but not those things. Maybe we didn't get the tactical kicking game right this week, maybe Sexton should have been subbed.

Launchbury was MOTM in the pack for me. His work around the park was absolutely world class. He will be a really special lock in a season or two.

I just feel like for us it came down to defence and kicking from hand. Those were the areas where we lost the game.

Notch wrote:I just feel like for us it came down to defence and kicking from hand. Those were the areas where we lost the game.

Seems to be a lot of scapegoating of Sexton and although he made some obvious errors he became overwhelmed by a very aggressive English defence. It was fine margins but just one too many errors in attack and defence cost Ireland.

Notch wrote:I just feel like for us it came down to defence and kicking from hand. Those were the areas where we lost the game.

Particularly kicking from hand - Sexton did not have a good game in this area.

The one thing I would say in defence of the anti-Schmidt brigade is that our ball carriers still don't seem to take the ball on at pace and we struggle to consistently get past the gainline. Today the odd backs move put us through a couple of times but it's going to be difficult to create the free-flowing rugby you are so used to at Munster BM when we take the ball standing still.

First time SOB's absence was really felt. Unfortunately it sounds like we'll have to wait until next season for his return.

Chjw131 wrote:

Notch wrote:I just feel like for us it came down to defence and kicking from hand. Those were the areas where we lost the game.

Seems to be a lot of scapegoating of Sexton and although he made some obvious errors he became overwhelmed by a very aggressive English defence. It was fine margins but just one too many errors in attack and defence cost Ireland.

Some of his kicks he wasn't under pressure, particularly the up and unders that often went much too far and his restarts, one of which went out on the full and the others he didn't go long or short but somewere in between which is useless.

Stats show POM was out most effective ball carrier in the pack and in the lineout....Heaslip kept going backwards and Henry made the tackles but not much else.  

I thought both backrows cancelled each other out to be honest no stand out.

Our backplay was mostly obvious except for the try but at least there was some more improvement on the last two games but our kicking game wasn't great. Couldnt understand substitutions like Trimble who looked our most dangerous in Englands 22. Henderson should possibly have been on earlier for Toner.

Overall good honest effort....

Artful_Dodger wrote:

Chjw131 wrote:

Notch wrote:I just feel like for us it came down to defence and kicking from hand. Those were the areas where we lost the game.

Seems to be a lot of scapegoating of Sexton and although he made some obvious errors he became overwhelmed by a very aggressive English defence. It was fine margins but just one too many errors in attack and defence cost Ireland.

Some of his kicks he wasn't under pressure, particularly the up and unders that often went much too far and his restarts, one of which went out on the full and the others he didn't go long or short but somewere in between which is useless.

Not out on the full actually - didn't go 10 is what I meant.