England vs Ireland, Part 2

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You beauties...

What a crackin game....

Well, that was an extremely tense game :shock:Bad luck Ireland.

Both sides (especially England) will feel they left a few points out there but a proper blood and thunder 6 Nations game. This will do this young English side a heck of a lot of good in terms of confidence and defending a win. Would have been nice to get another try or two. Hopefully that fluidity and quicker thinking will come. If it does someone could get a hiding.

Ireland got on top for the first 10 minutes after half time but it was heartening to see England come back. Cracking try from the Robshaw/Brown/Care combo.

Good to see England get in the Irish faces in way that Wales weren't able to do. The key is not giving them time and forcing errors. Fantastic defence.

Mike Brown just keeps getting better

Launchberry was key in a few turnover situations too.

Bring on the Welsh!

theslosty wrote:it's going to be difficult to create the free-flowing rugby you are so used to at Munster BM when we take the ball standing still.

.

Touché

One stat that Schmidt needs to address IMO:

England     Ireland
104 Runs 120
430 Metres run with ball 352

If anyone should be scapegoated then it is our own Conor O'Shea who no doubt was behind that Quins move that created the Care try.

Traitor...  

theslosty wrote:If anyone should be scapegoated then it is our own Conor O'Shea who no doubt was behind that Quins move that created the Care try.

Traitor...  

You'll be even more peed when he becomes England coach in 2016...

Don't Connor and the IRFU not get along?

BlueMuff wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:POM was kept quiet by Woodshaw as predicted

I had to check the line ups to see that POM played, jesus that boy did nothing of note. I do think he's HUGELY overated by some posters on here, he's a decent flank but no Ferris.

POM aside I thought the Irish pack went well and had the upperhand through most of the game. We just played better in the right areas of the pitch although we should have put more on the board with our territory advantage.

May/Nowell are still very much work in progress, both made some big errors. I'm stillnot convinced Nowell is ready for this level of rugby, nothing has shown otherwise in 3 caps.

Why single out Pom what about heaslip or Henry?

Because POM is the best player in the northern hemisphere.

A fine wine for England. Congratulations. Also keeping my predictions at 100% - with almost perfect score line.

I thought England were great. Rigorous in defense, with just one lapse, managed the referee well. Came back when under pressure showing great character and adapted to their injury problems well. Also nice to see such a scintillating back line move result in a try.

I give them 8/10 for the effort.

Ireland just couldn't find a cutting edge when it mattered, fading badly toward the end in ideas, but still a peformance to be proud of. You can't win them all! And Schmidt showed he is still malign progress even early on in his reign.

GunsGerms wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:POM was kept quiet by Woodshaw as predicted

I had to check the line ups to see that POM played, jesus that boy did nothing of note. I do think he's HUGELY overated by some posters on here, he's a decent flank but no Ferris.

POM aside I thought the Irish pack went well and had the upperhand through most of the game. We just played better in the right areas of the pitch although we should have put more on the board with our territory advantage.

May/Nowell are still very much work in progress, both made some big errors. I'm stillnot convinced Nowell is ready for this level of rugby, nothing has shown otherwise in 3 caps.

Why single out Pom what about heaslip or Henry?

Because POM is the best player in the northern hemisphere.

based on todays game he isn't.

BlueMuff wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:POM was kept quiet by Woodshaw as predicted

I had to check the line ups to see that POM played, jesus that boy did nothing of note. I do think he's HUGELY overated by some posters on here, he's a decent flank but no Ferris.

POM aside I thought the Irish pack went well and had the upperhand through most of the game. We just played better in the right areas of the pitch although we should have put more on the board with our territory advantage.

May/Nowell are still very much work in progress, both made some big errors. I'm stillnot convinced Nowell is ready for this level of rugby, nothing has shown otherwise in 3 caps.

Why single out Pom what about heaslip or Henry?

POM recieves no end of hype on here and I didn't even notice him playing today. Henry & Heaslip put in a good shift, Henry seemed key to the hold up defence and Heaslip put himself about.

nathan wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:POM was kept quiet by Woodshaw as predicted

I had to check the line ups to see that POM played, jesus that boy did nothing of note. I do think he's HUGELY overated by some posters on here, he's a decent flank but no Ferris.

POM aside I thought the Irish pack went well and had the upperhand through most of the game. We just played better in the right areas of the pitch although we should have put more on the board with our territory advantage.

May/Nowell are still very much work in progress, both made some big errors. I'm stillnot convinced Nowell is ready for this level of rugby, nothing has shown otherwise in 3 caps.

Why single out Pom what about heaslip or Henry?

Because POM is the best player in the northern hemisphere.

based on todays game he isn't.

Was still the best backrow on display today by a mile...

Nachos Jones wrote:Mike Brown is more than deserved of the MoTM, fantastic effort from him and he really showed that he is the best 15 in the 6N.

Nonsense - he is a good player but he has his weaknesses and many others would claim the best FB shirt.

GloriousEmpire wrote:A fine wine for England. Congratulations. Also keeping my predictions at 100% - with almost perfect score line.

I thought England were great. Rigorous in defense, with just one lapse, managed the referee well. Came back when under pressure showing great character and adapted to their injury problems well. Also nice to see such a scintillating back line move result in a try.

I give them 8/10 for the effort.

Ireland just couldn't find a cutting edge when it mattered, fading badly toward the end in ideas, but still a peformance to be proud of. You can't win them all! And Schmidt showed he is still malign progress even early on in his reign.

  

nathan wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:POM was kept quiet by Woodshaw as predicted

I had to check the line ups to see that POM played, jesus that boy did nothing of note. I do think he's HUGELY overated by some posters on here, he's a decent flank but no Ferris.

POM aside I thought the Irish pack went well and had the upperhand through most of the game. We just played better in the right areas of the pitch although we should have put more on the board with our territory advantage.

May/Nowell are still very much work in progress, both made some big errors. I'm stillnot convinced Nowell is ready for this level of rugby, nothing has shown otherwise in 3 caps.

Why single out Pom what about heaslip or Henry?

Because POM is the best player in the northern hemisphere.

based on todays game he isn't.

He's distinctly average imo. You really missed SOB today, throw him in with Henry and Heaslip and you have some unit (or even better Ferris!)

Thanks GE, I agree TJ, very good options at 15 at the moment, and ME, if that's what you need to believe <3

TJ wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:Mike Brown is more than deserved of the MoTM, fantastic effort from him and he really showed that he is the best 15 in the 6N.

Nonsense - he is a good player but he has his weaknesses and many others would claim the best FB shirt.

Hugely contested shirt across the world as has already been alluded to. This line-up is pretty tough to choose from I would say:

Dagg, Folau, Kearny, Le-Roux, Brown, Hogg, Halfpenny. That's before you even get to players out of position on the wing etc.. and those which have been great but are either injured or looking for form: Beale, Foden etc...

ME-109 wrote:

Was still the best backrow on display today by a mile...

Ireland by birth....

ME-109 wrote:Stats show POM was out most effective ball carrier in the pack and in the lineout....Heaslip kept going backwards and Henry made the tackles but not much else.  

I thought both backrows cancelled each other out to be honest no stand out.

Personally I thought the Irish backrow was outplayed on the deck. England's ball looked generally more secure than Ireland's, notwithstanding choke tackles. Of our groundhogs Henry, O'Mahoney, Best, O'Driscoll and D'Arcy I can only think of 1 turnover affected by Best.

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

Was still the best backrow on display today by a mile...

Ireland by birth....

Pity about the Israeli...

Well done England - fantastic game, one of the best in the 6n in a long time. Really disappointed not to have taken the win, looked like we'd really taken control after the half time break but Browns try turned it around for England. Both sides showed phenomenal hunger and passion with England deservedly hanging on for the win.  

Hope the points difference we've accrued will be enough to see us through but it will be an interesting last 2 rounds with 4 sides in the hunt.

POM's credentials have shot up this 6N in my eyes. He may not have been as effective today (thought he was a central catalyst against Scotland/Wales) but was still at the heart of the back row battle. His work ethic so far has been phenomenal. Yet another capable option to add to Ireland's roomy cabinet of back row specialists  

Hence why I was infuriated when Wales didn't heed the numerous warning signs and let him run amok at the breakdown. But that's in the past now, we'll have to pay special attention and wrap him up next year.

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

Was still the best backrow on display today by a mile...

Ireland by birth....

Pity about the Israeli...

Israeli by birth our best backrow by the grace of god?

15s:
I'll be missing some...

Dagg. Piutau. Jane. B Smith
Folau. Beale. Mogg. JOC.
Le Roux. Kirchner.
Dulin, Buttin, Medard
Brown, Foden, plus others pressing
Halfpenny, Byrne, L Williams
Kearney, baby Kearney
Hogg, Maitland?
Masi, McLean

It's a pretty strong position!

Engine#4 wrote: England's ball looked generally more secure than Ireland's, notwithstanding choke tackles.  Of our groundhogs Henry, O'Mahoney, Best, O'Driscoll and D'Arcy I can only think of 1 turnover affected by Best.

I counted at least 2 by best and 1 by O'Mahoney at least - I thought there was a great contest on the deck with both sides disrupting each other ball - Robshaw put a serious shift in as always.

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

Was still the best backrow on display today by a mile...

Ireland by birth....

Pity about the Israeli...

Israeli by birth our best backrow by the grace of god.

Do you know that outside of Care/Farrell and Murray/Sexton he was on the ball more than any other player. In fact he carried the ball (in terms of took it on) more than any other player on the pitch...and yet where did he go...effing nowhere....if Vuinipola had stayed on the field and got the ball as much as Heaslip he would have scored a hat trick....

GloriousEmpire wrote:A fine wine for England. Congratulations. Also keeping my predictions at 100% - with almost perfect score line.

I thought England were great. Rigorous in defense, with just one lapse, managed the referee well. Came back when under pressure showing great character and adapted to their injury problems well. Also nice to see such a scintillating back line move result in a try.

I give them 8/10 for the effort.

Ireland just couldn't find a cutting edge when it mattered, fading badly toward the end in ideas, but still a peformance to be proud of. You can't win them all! And Schmidt showed he is still malign progress even early on in his reign.

Very gracious of you GE. Cheers.  

Such an intense game!

POM get's a 9/10 in the Torygraph. Woodshaw 8 and 7.

theslosty wrote:One stat that Schmidt needs to address IMO:

England     Ireland
104 Runs 120
430 Metres run with ball 352

Well if you take out Heaslip who lost 5 metres with every carry and the fact Browns try was a 50m job the stats don't look so bad ...

rodders wrote:

Engine#4 wrote: England's ball looked generally more secure than Ireland's, notwithstanding choke tackles.  Of our groundhogs Henry, O'Mahoney, Best, O'Driscoll and D'Arcy I can only think of 1 turnover affected by Best.

I counted at least 2 by best and 1 by O'Mahoney at least - I thought there was a great contest on the deck with both sides disrupting each other ball - Robshaw put a serious shift in as always.  

This is where England won the game imo. Against Scotland and Wales the Irish back row were rampant, pilfering and disrupting so much. England are the first side so far this tournament to not let Ireland have their way in that area. Neither side won the breakdown contest outright but England contested just enough as the scoreline indicates.

The Torygraph gave so many 8s and 9s out I think they may have gotten carried Away...

Also the English press, ESPECIALLY the Torygraph, hate Robshaw in particularly to ever get any praise. Unfortunately they've had little choice

Cyril wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:A fine wine for England. Congratulations. Also keeping my predictions at 100% - with almost perfect score line.

I thought England were great. Rigorous in defense, with just one lapse, managed the referee well. Came back when under pressure showing great character and adapted to their injury problems well. Also nice to see such a scintillating back line move result in a try.

I give them 8/10 for the effort.

Ireland just couldn't find a cutting edge when it mattered, fading badly toward the end in ideas, but still a peformance to be proud of. You can't win them all! And Schmidt showed he is still malign progress even early on in his reign.

Very gracious of you GE. Cheers.  

Such an intense game!

Gracious? NZ werent playing. GE wanted England to win.

GunsGerms wrote:

Cyril wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:A fine wine for England. Congratulations. Also keeping my predictions at 100% - with almost perfect score line.

I thought England were great. Rigorous in defense, with just one lapse, managed the referee well. Came back when under pressure showing great character and adapted to their injury problems well. Also nice to see such a scintillating back line move result in a try.

I give them 8/10 for the effort.

Ireland just couldn't find a cutting edge when it mattered, fading badly toward the end in ideas, but still a peformance to be proud of. You can't win them all! And Schmidt showed he is still malign progress even early on in his reign.

Very gracious of you GE. Cheers.  

Such an intense game!

Gracious? NZ werent playing. GE wanted England to win.

He's being nice. Don't spoil it!

I'm not sure GE wanted England to win. Technically he can't lose. Back England to win and and if they do, say 'told you so'. If they don't, say 'ha ha'. It's foolproof

Did we end up with a full Leinster backline in the end..which would be fine except for the fact the most important player was missing..

ME-109 wrote:Did we end up with a full Leinster backline in the end..which would be fine except for the fact the most important player was missing..

Hopefully Bowe will be back before the end of the 6 nations.

Well, a game of 3 halves – 1st half was 50:50; 41-60 Ireland mullahed us all over the park; 60-80 England’s offensive defence was truly unbelievable – absolutely knocked the stuffing out of Ireland. Ireland needed to make more of their dominance in the 1st part of the 2nd half to win it. They didn’t. And England showed huge character to snuff them out in the end. Over the 80 England just about deserved it.

But – England’s handling skills were sometimes almost pub-side standard: knock-ons, dropped balls, poor passes, shoves, late tackles, missed tackles, ball lost in the tackle, turnovers. And for parts the dodgiest FR since Ireland’s a couple of seasons ago (altho it improved a bit near the end). Mmm a lot of work to do.

And can I congratulate the pitch - well played sir

ME-109 wrote:Did we end up with a full Leinster backline in the end..which would be fine except for the fact the most important player was missing..

Reddan? I didn't think Murray was that bad  

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Did we end up with a full Leinster backline in the end..which would be fine except for the fact the most important player was missing..

Hopefully Bowe will be back before the end of the 6 nations.

Nah mate, even Tommy couldn't cope with that ineptitude..we needed Isa badly to help out his mates

Reddan is Irelands second most capped scrum half of all times.

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Did we end up with a full Leinster backline in the end..which would be fine except for the fact the most important player was missing..

Hopefully Bowe will be back before the end of the 6 nations.

Nah mate, even Tommy couldn't cope with that ineptitude..we needed Isa badly to help out his mates

 or right thought you might be on about one of the top Munster wingers like Johne Murphy or Andrew Conway.

You can hardly blame POM for being ineffective at the breakdown because England successfully carried out a plan that negated him. Thats the breaks lads, you can't play well every game. He did very well in the lineout and had a couple of good carries in the second half. But I am concerned that for a player who, "never takes a backward step" and offers "immense physicality" he has never successfully made more than 9 tackles in an international. Today he only made 4 and missed 2. With the amount of ball England had that simply isn't good enough. It compares very unfavourably with the sheer amount of work that Toner, Henry and yes, wait for this one, Mike Ross got through. POM needs to work on that part of his game. He will have better games for Ireland, but he has played much worse for Ireland before. Best & Henry made more turnovers on the deck, but England protected their ball very well. No shame in POM being less effective than against Wales.

It should be pointed out that prior to the usual alterations before the final figure comes out on ESPN, Best missed 7 tackles today. He may have had an excellent game at the breakdown and thrown well, but that cannot be acceptable.

Overall our pack presented more than enough quality ball for the backs to work with. The 9-10-12 channel was poor today. Thats where the game was lost.

Robshaw made 16 tackles as well as his breakdown work, improved carrying and link play (including offload to set up Brown's line for the try)... 7/10 my arse

I was shocked at how poor May & Nowell were; neither are international standard at the moment. For May to butcher that almost certain try in the first couple of minutes was ridiculous. He then spent spent the next 50 minutes running sideways across the pitch which is a standard schoolboy error for which we would have been unceremoniously flogged during my teenage years!

Nowell knocked on an easy catch, gave away a really silly penalties and did nothing particularly noticeable except one break.

Farrell's ridiculous arrogance though is going to get noticed and his sly pushes and late tackles will get him carded if we're not careful. He's a prickly little so and so and obviously easy to wind up. He will be targeted both by the Welsh and the Referees as a result. Daddy needs to have a word and should take away his pocket money if necessary.

However, there are massive plus points to be taken from this game: Brown, the back row and both locks were great, and Launchbury's tap tackle is the moment of the 6N for me this year so far. Plus, once again, we didn't buckle under pressure.

Henry made no turnovers today and if he did it was inconsequential, made his tackles but the game seemed to pass him by..POM wasn't great today but was effective in what was clearly his role..

So Ireland, Wales, England and France are all level on four points after three games. All of those have won their games against Scotland and Italy and have won their homes games against the other teams on four points.

If them trends continue over the final two weeks, England and France will finish on eight points, Ireland and Wales on six points, Scotland on two points and Italy with no points.

Mr Bounce wrote:I was shocked at how poor May & Nowell were; neither are international standard at the moment. For May to butcher that almost certain try in the first couple of minutes was ridiculous. He then spent spent the next 50 minutes running sideways across the pitch which is a standard schoolboy error for which we would have been unceremoniously flogged during my teenage years!

Nowell knocked on an easy catch, gave away a really silly penalties and did nothing particularly noticeable except one break.

Farrell's ridiculous arrogance though is going to get noticed and his sly pushes and late tackles will get him carded if we're not careful. He's a prickly little so and so and obviously easy to wind up. He will be targeted both by the Welsh and the Referees as a result. Daddy needs to have a word and should take away his pocket money if necessary.

However, there are massive plus points to be taken from this game: Brown, the back row and both locks were great, and Launchbury's tap tackle is the moment of the 6N for me this year so far. Plus, once again, we didn't buckle under pressure.

Farrell may also start to be isolated in the dressing room. Not easy to be daddy's boy and the resulting petulance as you say may start to wind up his team mates. His criticism of team mates on the field when England are under pressure is also notable.

Was there a campaign of sorts to ratchet the atmosphere up today? It was good from the English supporters, fair play. Very enjoyable game. I found it had my full attention, which isn't always the case when watching a game as a neutral. Great for the next round of games to have four teams in contention. Atmosphere will maybe go up a notch again for that too, particularly with a triple crown chance for England.

Need to play Ford against Italy... Chasing championship or not.

Mr Bounce wrote:I was shocked at how poor May & Nowell were; neither are international standard at the moment. For May to butcher that almost certain try in the first couple of minutes was ridiculous. He then spent spent the next 50 minutes running sideways across the pitch which is a standard schoolboy error for which we would have been unceremoniously flogged during my teenage years!

Nowell knocked on an easy catch, gave away a really silly penalties and did nothing particularly noticeable except one break.

Farrell's ridiculous arrogance though is going to get noticed and his sly pushes and late tackles will get him carded if we're not careful. He's a prickly little so and so and obviously easy to wind up. He will be targeted both by the Welsh and the Referees as a result. Daddy needs to have a word and should take away his pocket money if necessary.

However, there are massive plus points to be taken from this game: Brown, the back row and both locks were great, and Launchbury's tap tackle is the moment of the 6N for me this year so far. Plus, once again, we didn't buckle under pressure.

Yes May should of finished that off, but Farrell also held on to it for too long. Arrogance? Is that the default observation with people of today or something? Yeah Farrell needs to chill out sometimes and leave out the cheap shots but to call it arrogance. Jeez

Yeah, it's hot-headedness (not arrogance).

Nothing wrong with a bit of arrogance, mind

Risca Rev wrote:Was there a campaign of sorts to ratchet the atmosphere up today? It was good from the English supporters, fair play.

Yeah, Moore mentioned that it's the noisiest he's heard it.

There's been quite a big deal made of it being the 1st home game of the tournament (against the current leaders, Ireland) and Lancs has been pushing the whole 'walk through the carpark, see the fans smiling faces' and then through the 'corridors of heroes' into the dressing room and out onto the pitch.

It seemed to work for the fans and players.

I'm sure it will be noisy in a fortnight too