England vs Ireland, Part 2

First topic message reminder :

You beauties...

What a crackin game....

Thomond wrote:There are a lot of valid reasons for bringing Zebo in, that try should not be one of them, just a broken field speed and one god awful attempt at a tackle. I would like to see him brought in though.

Well what about about the countless try saving tackles he put in, 2 choke tackles that ended in touch or the monster kick into ospreys 22! Let's just ignore 4 tries in 3 games and he is still the best winger we have available to us.

I don't think JS will change much for the Italy game. To do so would be disloyal to the players he has picked until now and might seem like scapegoating

ME-109 wrote:I don't think JS will change much for the Italy game. To do so would be disloyal to the players he has picked until now and might seem like scapegoating

Surely a coach as loyalty to the country he is coaching? dont you think?

Surely JS will pick the best players he as for the next game.

If he as to drop any one for the next game who played in this game. that's tough i guess.

You don't 'scapegoat' the top of the board, with still a real chance to take the title.

But you could decide to give a few fringe players a chance to impress against Italy at home... and give a few others a rest until the big French game.

But, like I said in another thread, the Italy game isn't really a luxury 'day off' kinda game. It needs big hitters too. A lot riding on it.

majesticimperialman wrote:

ME-109 wrote:I don't think JS will change much for the Italy game. To do so would be disloyal to the players he has picked until now and might seem like scapegoating

Surely a coach as loyalty to the country he is coaching? dont you think?

Surely JS will pick the best players he as for the next game.

If he as to drop any one for the next game who played in this game. that's tough i guess.

If you look at his tenure in Leinster for HC games he picked the same players. At the time this worked for him in the HC. The problem is he has brought this to the international set up preferring players he is "used" too rather than introducing players from other provinces...this is especially true of the "marginal" decisions. What you saw yesterday for example was a backline not exactly in its prime as more on the door out for pastures new (not taking anything against Englands excellent defence). If you take what SL is doing with a very young backline for example and developing them nicely then the opposite cannot be said for JS. The WC isnt that far away and it is probable (unless BOD stays on) that there will be a completely new 3/4 next year with players who havent seen a huge amount of gametime nor has he given himself much time to try out different combinations...

SecretFly wrote:You don't 'scapegoat' the top of the board, with still a real chance to take the title.

But you could decide to give a few fringe players a chance to impress against Italy at home... and give a few others a rest until the big French game.

But, like I said in another thread, the Italy game isn't really a luxury 'day off' kinda game. It needs big hitters too.  A lot riding on it.

There is - if you only win by a few(which has been the norm for ireland in recent years- you lose your PD)

I can see england putting plus 15 on italy in rome

mystiroakey wrote:

SecretFly wrote:You don't 'scapegoat' the top of the board, with still a real chance to take the title.

But you could decide to give a few fringe players a chance to impress against Italy at home... and give a few others a rest until the big French game.

But, like I said in another thread, the Italy game isn't really a luxury 'day off' kinda game. It needs big hitters too.  A lot riding on it.

There is - if you only win by a few(which has been the norm for ireland in recent years- you lose your PD)

I can see england putting plus 15 on italy in rome

True about our habits against Italy.  But again, those were habits more than anything else.  Getting by.  Naively taking the foot off the pedal in prep for 'bigger' games.  Messing around in a forwards dirt war to 'respect' them.  

In 2007, when we were in another points amassing contest at the end with France, we didn't do our usual mess around with Italy in Rome and instead scored 51(+27) points (6 tries).  And that turned out to be not enough by 6!
So I'm hoping this new coaching set-up realises the importance of points and goes at Italy for 80 solid minutes.  On present form it's certainly doable to make them suffer, but it needs some good team selections (including bench) to achieve it.

Notch wrote:Yeah, I still think Zebo should start in Round 4 but then I've been saying that from the start. He's been asked to respond and he's done that. This exclusion has lit a fire under him and he now has a chance of featuring in the last two games.

Do you REALLY think Zebo has decided to score tries just because "he has been asked to respond"? Honestly, Notch, I can't believe you wrote that.

Zebo scores tries for fun. It is what he does. He doesn't do it to "prove" anything to anyone; to "respond" to anything he has been asked to do; to show off his skills or anything else. He does it quite simply because he ENJOYS it.

just settling into i-player to watch the match. was in a fairly remote part of canada with no internet so saw neither the game or the 606 thread!

tough luck ireland. sounds like it couldnt have been any closer.

these tough, intense matches are hopefully going to stand all the 6N sides in good stead for RWC2015.

quinsforever wrote:just settling into i-player to watch the match. was in a fairly remote part of canada with no internet so saw neither the game or the 606 thread!

tough luck ireland. sounds like it couldnt have been any closer.

these tough, intense matches are hopefully going to stand all the 6N sides in good stead for RWC2015.

Enjoy quins! It was painful live but much better on replay.

ME-109 wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:

ME-109 wrote:I don't think JS will change much for the Italy game. To do so would be disloyal to the players he has picked until now and might seem like scapegoating

Surely a coach as loyalty to the country he is coaching? dont you think?

Surely JS will pick the best players he as for the next game.

If he as to drop any one for the next game who played in this game. that's tough i guess.

If you look at his tenure in Leinster for HC games he picked the same players. At the time this worked for him in the HC. The problem is he has brought this to the international set up preferring players he is "used" too rather than introducing players from other provinces...this is especially true of the "marginal" decisions. What you saw yesterday for example was a backline not exactly in its prime as more on the door out for pastures new (not taking anything against Englands excellent defence). If you take what SL is doing with a very young backline for example and developing them nicely then the opposite cannot be said for JS. The WC isnt that far away and it is probable (unless BOD stays on) that there will be a completely new 3/4 next year with players who havent seen a huge amount of gametime nor has he given himself much time to try out different combinations...

Think you should start a Schmidt clock ME.

mystiroakey wrote:

SecretFly wrote:You don't 'scapegoat' the top of the board, with still a real chance to take the title.

But you could decide to give a few fringe players a chance to impress against Italy at home... and give a few others a rest until the big French game.

But, like I said in another thread, the Italy game isn't really a luxury 'day off' kinda game. It needs big hitters too.  A lot riding on it.

There is - if you only win by a few(which has been the norm for ireland in recent years- you lose your PD)

I can see england putting plus 15 on italy in rome

Last time we played Italy in Landsdowne we hammered them. Same in the world cup. We could well hammer them again.

No 'could' in it though. We have to do it. We have to acknowledge we are a better side and do the proving.

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:

ME-109 wrote:I don't think JS will change much for the Italy game. To do so would be disloyal to the players he has picked until now and might seem like scapegoating

Surely a coach as loyalty to the country he is coaching? dont you think?

Surely JS will pick the best players he as for the next game.

If he as to drop any one for the next game who played in this game. that's tough i guess.

If you look at his tenure in Leinster for HC games he picked the same players. At the time this worked for him in the HC. The problem is he has brought this to the international set up preferring players he is "used" too rather than introducing players from other provinces...this is especially true of the "marginal" decisions. What you saw yesterday for example was a backline not exactly in its prime as more on the door out for pastures new (not taking anything against Englands excellent defence). If you take what SL is doing with a very young backline for example and developing them nicely then the opposite cannot be said for JS. The WC isnt that far away and it is probable (unless BOD stays on) that there will be a completely new 3/4 next year with players who havent seen a huge amount of gametime nor has he given himself much time to try out different combinations...

Think you should start a Schmidt clock ME.

   ..not at all Guns. He is still the best coach we could have. I dont expect him to go anywhere unless of course it turns into a complete mess (which I dont think will happen). Having said that given the way the forwards have played then all credit must go to Plumtree. However given he has not attempted to "develop" players in certain positions I think its a valid concern no?

Close to half of all positions he has developed players. Thats a good start. He also is getting approx 40 players to work on parts of their game to improve. Our team has improved a massive amount in the following areas:

Dicipline. Big decrease in penalties.
Defence. 1 try conceded in three games.
Error count. Big decrease in knock ons.
Tactics. Tactics so far have been well thought, tailored to opposition and conditions and more or less spot on.
Organisation. Players all seem to know what their role in every scenario is.
Unpredictable. There have been different pre planned moves in each game.

All in all under Schmidt we are already a much better team.

Half of all positions and getting 40 players no less working on part of their game..i think your perceptions are closer to fiction than reality.

Discipline has been good and tactics (maybe not yesterday)..still though a loss is a loss and unless we beat France away it would not be great to not win against the bigger teams. Style of play especially in the backs would be a concern

Front row, second row, 6, 1st centre and wing have been rotated or regularly subbed.

Squad fringe players like Cave have confirmed they have been given things to work on. Extended squad is about 35 players isnt it. You think just Cave has been given things to work on? Even Drico has said he has been given homework.

Ha ha..no difference from previously...carry on with the misconceptions

ME-109 wrote:Half of all positions and getting 40 players no less working on part of their game..i think your perceptions are closer to fiction than reality.

Discipline has been good and tactics (maybe not yesterday)..still though a loss is a loss and unless we beat France away it would not be great to not win against the bigger teams. Style of play especially in the backs would be a concern

For now - yeah, I'd agree.  But you just know they'll be working on it on the training field.  Getting things up to speed before testing things in...tests - with more natural free thinkers to come back into the side.  
Afterall, isn't it what most people go on about here? - the mantra as it were.  Without the forward based foundation of scrums, breakdowns, linesouts, mauls etc, it's pointless having backs that can fire erratic missiles of plum beauty at the opposition tryline.

Baby steps first, so - get the foundation right and then we might see width coming into our game in a more pronounced way.

After three games, during which I certainly haven't been the happiest at times, I feel things are progressing even a little better than I expected at this point.  Schmidt is perhaps being a little over cautious and is probably going against his inner urges in keeping to the same players so rigidly.  
He's nervous, he's feeling the strain of International (National expectations mostly) but he's finding the team a rhythm and he's finding himself one in the process as an International coach.  If we can drag a Championship out of this his first season then it'll be quite a lot of education done in one season, which will stand to him in susbsequent contests.
He's doing fine for now.  How he plans the Italian game will outline if he has the steel to push things ruthlessly when needed.

BlueMuff wrote:

Thomond wrote:There are a lot of valid reasons for bringing Zebo in, that try should not be one of them, just a broken field speed and one god awful attempt at a tackle. I would like to see him brought in though.

Well what about about the countless try saving tackles he put in, 2 choke tackles that ended in touch or the monster kick into ospreys 22! Let's just ignore 4 tries in 3 games and he is still the best winger we have available to us.

You missed the post where I was full of praise for him today I take it?! I love the guy, gets a lot of stick for some perceived off the field behaviour (some of it is true some of it is not), he is more then deserving of a callup, he would have been an ideal guy to play England, would have bee ngereat for a kick chase and his positional sense has improved tremendously since his break out around 2 years ago. I feel the biggest obstacle in the backline is a poor centre pairing. Kidney didn't blood any 13s, Schmidt is hoping BOD can last or hoping Payne or Olding come on quite quick, we need them to.

what a great clean game. incredible defense by england from minutes 1-80. stopped heaslip in his tracks.

and my quins boys arefor the moment the first names on the team sheet...robshaw,brown,care.

quinsforever wrote:what a great clean game. incredible defense by england from minutes 1-80. stopped heaslip in his tracks.

and my quins boys arefor the moment the first names on the team sheet...robshaw,brown,care.

Absolutely agree with you 100%.   

quinsforever wrote:what a great clean game. incredible defense by england from minutes 1-80. stopped heaslip in his tracks.

and my quins boys arefor the moment the first names on the team sheet...robshaw,brown,care.

Maybe more of our lads need to move to France to improve their games, just like Sexton clearly has so we can improve...just like you used to suggest   

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

quinsforever wrote:what a great clean game. incredible defense by england from minutes 1-80. stopped heaslip in his tracks.

and my quins boys arefor the moment the first names on the team sheet...robshaw,brown,care.

Maybe more of our lads need to move to France to improve their games, just like Sexton clearly has so we can improve...just like you used to suggest   

Would any of your lads be good enough too play abroad ( in pk]=laces like FRANCE?) yes it is a BIG QUESTION MARK?

majesticimperialman wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

quinsforever wrote:what a great clean game. incredible defense by england from minutes 1-80. stopped heaslip in his tracks.

and my quins boys arefor the moment the first names on the team sheet...robshaw,brown,care.

Maybe more of our lads need to move to France to improve their games, just like Sexton clearly has so we can improve...just like you used to suggest   

Would any of your lads be good enough too play abroad ( in pk]=laces like FRANCE?) yes it is a BIG QUESTION MARK?

No of course not, Toulon were only playing around with us when they were offering SOB and Heaslip huge contracts.

Fly..two things. One is he has had six games. Two his previous history suggests conservatism in selection.

As I said sometime ago I think he has backed himself into a corner on a number of items (which I actually sympathise with). BOD is one of them, his selection policy is another. His approach is also another thing. He has brought a very Leinster approach (and who can blame him) however this is international and not club rugby. He has to bring all four provincial players to buy into it. Am not 100% sure he has that and at the moment it all sounds EOS like (hmmm another ex teacher).

Thomond...Kidney played Earls and he was the clear replacement under DK (and when he did get the chance to play OC for Ireland he did quite well). Stop embarrassing yourself. Oh and watched the game today and Casey was not up to it at all. He was shirking tackles all over the shop, clearly with an eye on his exit. Sooner Earls is fit and playing OC with Van den Heever inside him the better.

BlueMuff wrote:

Thomond wrote:There are a lot of valid reasons for bringing Zebo in, that try should not be one of them, just a broken field speed and one god awful attempt at a tackle. I would like to see him brought in though.

Well what about about the countless try saving tackles he put in, 2 choke tackles that ended in touch or the monster kick into ospreys 22! Let's just ignore 4 tries in 3 games and he is still the best winger we have available to us.

Finally. I'd like to see Zebo feature against Italy but that's the first time I've seen somebody put forward valid reasoning as regards his form. Everyone knows how talented Zebo is. If anything his (very) vocal fanbase and the Munster meedja do him a disservice by going on about a walk in try against an under-strength Ospreys who were actively ignoring their blindside. Not to mention the 2 against the world-beating Zebre team who also let the substitute hooker grab a brace.

ME-109 wrote:Fly..two things. One is he has had six games. Two his previous history suggests conservatism in selection.

As I said sometime ago I think he has backed himself into a corner on a number of items (which I actually sympathise with). BOD is one of them, his selection policy is another. His approach is also another thing. He has brought a very Leinster approach (and who can blame him) however this is international and not club rugby. He has to bring all four provincial players to buy into it. Am not 100% sure he has that and at the moment it all sounds EOS like (hmmm another ex teacher).

Thomond...Kidney played Earls and he was the clear replacement under DK (and when he did get the chance to play OC for Ireland he did quite well). Stop embarrassing yourself. Oh and watched the game today and Casey was not up to it at all. He was shirking tackles all over the shop, clearly with an eye on his exit. Sooner Earls is fit and playing OC with Van den Heever inside him the better.

Rumours of Munster signing Sheridan to cover 13 when LLL leaves. Earls' defence and distribution would be a huge concern for me but I wouldn't mind him getting another crack there for Munster. Sheridan has been Irish's best player this season and has played every minute of their AP campaign so far. Could be a great signing.

Our lads are fine where they are.  How high do you have to go in European rugby?  Sexton could be doing with being back in an Irish Province actually to tighten up his game again France is loosening his killer instincts.  He's getting sloppy.... as O'Driscoll's failed instinctive pass to him showed.

The more I think about this defeat, the more hopeful I get for the future.  Morbidly depressed last night (because we couldn't keep England pinned down when ahead) but quite buoyant today.  

You realise Schmidt has so much to work on, so much to hone, so many little things to tighten up on and demand better percentages on, a good few player choices to look at down the line - and even now he walks away 3 points off an England side that has been fermenting for 2 years already under Lancaster.  

If England felt the meaningfulness of beating Ireland yesterday - and Lancaster obviously did - then Schmidt too will have gained so much information from that game; from England's defence, from the pace England brought in attack.  Ireland's first real genuine test of the Championship.  They needed it.  The game will be invaluable to him as the in-depth analyser he is.

Thomond wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:

Thomond wrote:There are a lot of valid reasons for bringing Zebo in, that try should not be one of them, just a broken field speed and one god awful attempt at a tackle. I would like to see him brought in though.

Well what about about the countless try saving tackles he put in, 2 choke tackles that ended in touch or the monster kick into ospreys 22! Let's just ignore 4 tries in 3 games and he is still the best winger we have available to us.

You missed the post where I was full of praise for him today I take it?! I love the guy, gets a lot of stick for some perceived off the field behaviour (some of it is true some of it is not), he is more then deserving of a callup, he would have been an ideal guy to play England, would have bee ngereat for a kick chase and his positional sense has improved tremendously since his break out around 2 years ago. I feel the biggest obstacle in the backline is a poor centre pairing. Kidney didn't blood any 13s, Schmidt is hoping BOD can last or hoping Payne or Olding come on quite quick, we need them to.

Kidney played both Earls & McFadden at 12/13. There was cover for BOD at the world cup. The problem is that Schmidt didn't develop any centres in Leinster. Up to this season, Munster were playing Earls there. Ulster were playing Cave there, and Connacht were playing Henshaw there. 2 of those 3 are fit, but none of them are in the squad.

Olding should stay at 12 to be honest, I wouldn't want to see him move to 13, personally I don't think his strengths would be quite as effective there. Henshaw seems to be the player looked as the next 13 replacement. He may well be better at 15 though.

Sin é wrote:

Thomond wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:

Thomond wrote:There are a lot of valid reasons for bringing Zebo in, that try should not be one of them, just a broken field speed and one god awful attempt at a tackle. I would like to see him brought in though.

Well what about about the countless try saving tackles he put in, 2 choke tackles that ended in touch or the monster kick into ospreys 22! Let's just ignore 4 tries in 3 games and he is still the best winger we have available to us.

You missed the post where I was full of praise for him today I take it?! I love the guy, gets a lot of stick for some perceived off the field behaviour (some of it is true some of it is not), he is more then deserving of a callup, he would have been an ideal guy to play England, would have bee ngereat for a kick chase and his positional sense has improved tremendously since his break out around 2 years ago. I feel the biggest obstacle in the backline is a poor centre pairing. Kidney didn't blood any 13s, Schmidt is hoping BOD can last or hoping Payne or Olding come on quite quick, we need them to.

Kidney played both Earls & McFadden at 12/13. There was cover for BOD at the world cup. The problem is that Schmidt didn't develop any centres in Leinster. Up to this season, Munster were playing Earls there. Ulster were playing Cave there, and Connacht were playing Henshaw there. 2 of those 3 are fit, but none of them are in the squad.

We were developing EOM before his career came to a cruel end    Also Fitz has played well at 13 and has said he wants to play there. Leinster have been struggling to produce backs in general lately as we put so much effort into producing forwards in last few years as thats where we have been traditionally weak and boy are we producing some quality forwards now. They are carrying us through the Rabo themselves this season.

We are already starting to put the emphasis back on the backs now with guys like Crosbie, Daly, Farell and Byrne (all are centers or can play center) in the academy. Time will tell if they are good enough.

Schmidt has Ireland sitting on top of the 6N table, with most points, least points against us, shared best try rate and least tries scored against us.

How much do you have to do after 6 games in charge? To be beating England by 20 or 30 points? Or to be tossing and turning selections? (when most people in the media and even here was saying it would be foolhardy for the first three games)

Let's do a reality check. Schmidt beginning. Lancaster two years in.

Schmidt report: Fine for now.

do you not think that Schmidt has taken an easy option by playing BOD though- who cannot feature for that much longer..

so where are this ireland team without him?

SecretFly wrote:Schmidt has Ireland sitting on top of the 6N table, with most points, least points against us, shared best try rate and least tries scored against us.  

How much do you have to do after 6 games in charge?  To be beating England by 20 or 30 points?  Or to be tossing and turning selections? (when most people in the media and even here was saying it would be foolhardy for the first three games)

Let's do a reality check.  Schmidt beginning.  Lancaster two years in.  

Schmidt report: Fine for now.

Oh yeah sure no disagreement..Fine for now is about right. win in France and its pretty good and more than likely a championship (= v good). However the result yesterday was not that much different from last year. We got out muscled and out thought except this time it was in the backs...tactically we werent great....see the similarities...

mystiroakey wrote:do you not think that Schmidt has taken an easy option by playing BOD though- who cannot feature for that much longer..

so where are this ireland team without him?

No body knows...all you can point to are the stats. When BOD doesnt play for Ireland our results are poor. Add on when BOD and POC dont play for Ireland we are complete pants (in terms of results)

ME-109 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Schmidt has Ireland sitting on top of the 6N table, with most points, least points against us, shared best try rate and least tries scored against us.  

How much do you have to do after 6 games in charge?  To be beating England by 20 or 30 points?  Or to be tossing and turning selections? (when most people in the media and even here was saying it would be foolhardy for the first three games)

Let's do a reality check.  Schmidt beginning.  Lancaster two years in.  

Schmidt report: Fine for now.

Oh yeah sure no disagreement..Fine for now is about right. win in France and its pretty good and more than likely a championship (= v good). However the result yesterday was not that much different from last year. We got out muscled and out thought except this time it was in the backs...tactically we werent great....see the similarities...

The result wasn't but the performance was totally different. Can you not remember how awful we were last year? Heaslip especially and pretty much the rest of the team came out the game with their confidence completely shattered. Lets stop pretending this team performances hasn't improved 10 fold since Kidney and Smal left. England in Twickers is no longer an easy game for us anymore   

Result = Same...
oh yeah given Heaslips stats from yesterday...performance pretty much the same as well.

Nah Heaslip didnt make any drop and balls this time

mystiroakey wrote:do you not think that Schmidt has taken an easy option by playing BOD though- who cannot feature for that much longer..

so where are this ireland team without him?

How is it an easy option?  
Everyone except his mother is saying he's past it; that he can't run, throw, pass, walk or eat his own food without someone providing it to him on a spoon.  (Not close to being my opinion but it's the one with traction in chatting circles).  

How can that idea be easy?  You could almost say Schmidt is hindering himself/tying an arm behind his back in giving BOD the position through the 6N.  But where is Ireland after having taken on last year's champs and this year's favourites (before the contest began)?  Carrying a few old men with no pace for nostalgia's sake, and the team are still looking ok.  That's strength of a kind in depth terms, I should think.

Ireland will discover where they are when BOD leaves - only at most two more games (people are so impatient to see him go! )  We'll discover where Ireland are and where they go after this 6N.  I have confidence that Schmidt will develop a side of substance

SecretFly wrote:
Ireland will discover where they are when BOD leaves - only at most two more games (people are so impatient to see him go! )  We'll discover where Ireland are and where they go after this 6N.  I have confidence that Schmidt will develop a side of substance

...2019 world cup then..

Well managers come in to there jobs with immense pressure- wanting results over progress.

I think BOD is still good enough to play.. but it would have been like england sticking with JW still to this day..

It really is no different. Some managers have the balls - some dont.

because remember the key here- it isn't even BODs ability- its his leadership..

ME-109 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:
Ireland will discover where they are when BOD leaves - only at most two more games (people are so impatient to see him go! )  We'll discover where Ireland are and where they go after this 6N.  I have confidence that Schmidt will develop a side of substance

...2019 world cup then..

Two more games is two more games, ME.
Everyone thinks Schmidt isn't even thinking about Ireland post-BOD? He'll wake up sometime in March in a nightmare sweating panic!!!! "What am I going to do???!!! I've just realised BOD meant it when he said his International career is over!!!"
Schmidt didn't take the job because of BOD. He took it because he's an ambitious coach who believes he can do a job, with or without BOD.

SecretFly wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:
Ireland will discover where they are when BOD leaves - only at most two more games (people are so impatient to see him go! )  We'll discover where Ireland are and where they go after this 6N.  I have confidence that Schmidt will develop a side of substance

...2019 world cup then..

Two more games is two more games, ME.  
Everyone thinks Schmidt isn't even thinking about Ireland post-BOD? He'll wake up sometime in March in a nightmare sweating panic!!!!  "What am I going to do???!!!  I've just realised BOD meant it when he said his International career is over!!!"
Schmidt didn't take the job because of BOD.  He took it because he's an ambitious coach who believes he can do a job, with or without BOD.

You forgot Darce...a bit like love and marriage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxwTaPK9me8

mystiroakey wrote:Well managers come in to there jobs with immense pressure- wanting results over progress.

I think BOD is still good enough to play.. but it would have been like england sticking with JW still to this day..

It really is no different. Some managers have the balls - some dont.

because remember the key here- it isn't even BODs ability- its his leadership..

Two more games... eight games in for Schmidt.  There are more leaders on the Ireland side than BOD.  

Defence/breakdown is his practical Big contribution right now, not Leadership... and that's where the fresh meat might have a tough time in the beginning (Club level isn't International level and the candidates - some of them - haven't even sniffed International yet).  

Attack might be the area where Ireland get a new potent focus point with a new player where BOD used to be.  It's a balance of what we might lose and what we might gain.  But people intially will realise why, even in his final year, he was the Irish Centre with the International balls to play International standard rugby... for practical reasons not merely Leadership ones

ME-109 wrote:
You forgot Darce...a bit like love and marriage.

Well of course Darce is the very person who now feeds BOD with a spoon. Always the minder.

SecretFly wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Well managers come in to there jobs with immense pressure- wanting results over progress.

I think BOD is still good enough to play.. but it would have been like england sticking with JW still to this day..

It really is no different. Some managers have the balls - some dont.

because remember the key here- it isn't even BODs ability- its his leadership..

Two more games... eight games in for Schmidt.  There are more leaders on the Ireland side than BOD.  

Defence/breakdown is his practical Big contribution right now, not Leadership... and that's where the fresh meat might have a tough time in the beginning (Club level isn't International level and the candidates - some of them - haven't even sniffed International yet).  

Attack might be the area where Ireland get a new potent focus point with a new player where BOD used to be.  It's a balance of what we might lose and what we might gain.  But people intially will realise why, even in his final year, he was the Irish Centre with the International balls to play International standard rugby... for practical reasons not merely Leadership ones

BOD's defence is shot. He doesn't have the legs for it anymore.

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Well managers come in to there jobs with immense pressure- wanting results over progress.

I think BOD is still good enough to play.. but it would have been like england sticking with JW still to this day..

It really is no different. Some managers have the balls - some dont.

because remember the key here- it isn't even BODs ability- its his leadership..

Two more games... eight games in for Schmidt.  There are more leaders on the Ireland side than BOD.  

Defence/breakdown is his practical Big contribution right now, not Leadership... and that's where the fresh meat might have a tough time in the beginning (Club level isn't International level and the candidates - some of them - haven't even sniffed International yet).  

Attack might be the area where Ireland get a new potent focus point with a new player where BOD used to be.  It's a balance of what we might lose and what we might gain.  But people intially will realise why, even in his final year, he was the Irish Centre with the International balls to play International standard rugby... for practical reasons not merely Leadership ones

BOD's defence is shot. He doesn't have the legs for it anymore.

Painful as it is to think it...I believe you are right.

Bullschit Sin.     The knackers yard cart is sniffing up his street okay...but he ain't going until the 6N is over.  And then hopefully onto the day job for a final flurry there too.

There's a lot of Gatlands circling in Ireland now..........  Maybe there should be a Charity "Drop Him" phone in competition?  Win the competition and have the privilege of dropping him live on air before he gets to the French game.

"You're Owth, Mate!!! - You're legs ain't in it anymore and you're creaming the Goodbyes a little too smugly too, if honesty lets me say it that way an' all"

You know what Fly...if holy Joe could find a combo of players who could put BOD into space and behind the defence then maybe we would see something of the old BOD. He must be mightily p...ed off having to spend his time in defence all the time....