England vs Ireland, Part 2

First topic message reminder :

You beauties...

What a crackin game....

ME-109 wrote:You know what Fly...if holy Joe could find a combo of players who could put BOD into space and behind the defence then maybe we would see something of the old BOD. He must be mightily p...ed off having to spend his time in defence all the time....

I'd agree whole heartedly.  He's had his time.  He knows his body rejects most of what he puts it through these days, including training.  
But his brain was still operating quicker and more instinctively than any of the Irish backs yesterday - and I'd include 'hero' Rob Kearney who looks like a waddling duck in invention and pace terms until he's about 20 metres out from the tryline.  In the middle of the park he's as predictable as a carcrash dummy.   A few feints and straight into the nearest opponent.    
It's too late for O'Driscoll now but there are players - and positions - that require rapid reactions in order to release players outside them.  Whoever the new 13 is, he'll need other players to do their work to get him space.  It's not all battle tank Tuilagi stuff - it's the timing of passes and speed of passes.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

quinsforever wrote:what a great clean game. incredible defense by england from minutes 1-80. stopped heaslip in his tracks.

and my quins boys arefor the moment the first names on the team sheet...robshaw,brown,care.

Maybe more of our lads need to move to France to improve their games, just like Sexton clearly has so we can improve...just like you used to suggest   

great idea. as you know i'm a big believer in change and innovation. i also wish SL would change his non-overseas-playing selection policy, then we could see steffon armitage in white too.

Just to add my two pence worth that was an absorbing game of rugby. Both teams deserve great credit for making it so and in the end, to my despair, Ireland just didn't make it to the finishing post.

Grand slam dreams crushed? I never had any anyway.
Championship dreams crushed? No chance, we are still in a very strong position and I'll back Ireland to take top spot.

The difference between Ireland and England? Brown. What a classy player he is.

Well done England on the win and well done both sides for putting on a great show

ME-109 wrote:You know what Fly...if holy Joe could find a combo of players who could put BOD into space and behind the defence then maybe we would see something of the old BOD. He must be mightily p...ed off having to spend his time in defence all the time....

Well maybe if BOD didn't insist on playing alongside D'arcy - who's really only useful for tackling, being a nuisance at the ruck and harbouring endangered species in his beard - instead of young Luke Marshall he might actually get the ball in a bit of space rather than spending all game in the rucks.

In fairness I though the great man looked in good nick though and ran over 40 metres which is a lot for him these days.

BOD was the best Centre on the field.

rodders wrote:

ME-109 wrote:You know what Fly...if holy Joe could find a combo of players who could put BOD into space and behind the defence then maybe we would see something of the old BOD. He must be mightily p...ed off having to spend his time in defence all the time....

Well maybe if BOD didn't insist on playing alongside D'arcy - who's really only useful for tackling, being a nuisance at the ruck and harbouring endangered species in his beard - instead of young Luke Marshall he might actually get the ball in a bit of space rather than spending all game in the rucks.

In fairness I though the great man looked in good nick though and ran over 40 metres which is a lot for him these days.  

Marshall will have his cut against Italy most likely.  
Well........................maybe.  
Well, I'm not sure anymore.  
Well, Schmidt seems glued to the current selection.  
Well.....we'll see.

Anyway, my point was going to be that Marshall will probably get a hit at Italy...but I'm not sure BOD will be with him.  My guess is he might be rested for one last game against France.  But if Marshall is on the field, he and the rest will have a lot of proving to do - quicktime!  We need a BIG score on them.  We need to win first and we need the winning margin to be as big as we can get in 80 minutes.

So...over to whoever may be on the field.  No pressure lads...just DON'T FAIL US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   

I think if BOD is fit he will play well and agree with Scrumpy that he had a very good game - that volley down the wing was quality only for Brown to produce an even better piece of magic in defence.

Just generally on Ireland - I know Zebo scored again but thought both wings justified their selections, especially Kearney.

In terms of attack - I think its a bit of go forward from the pack that is the problem rather than the backline. Heaslip was well marked and O'Brien missed. TOD or Copeland might have been better bench options in that regard.

I think D'arcy does a job but I do think stagnates the attack a bit, as perhaps does Murray. If the confidence to bring Boss on is not there then Reddan, who looks very sharp, would be a better pick on the bench to speed things up.

Rob Kearney doesn't join the line enough but if he's have held his depth a bit more on that cross field kick to Trimble he'd have scored one of the tries of the championship.

Anyways happy enough with that performance - no complaints about the result. There is depth to make changes, with some guys really pushing for inclusion, but also would be happy enough to see the same side next time as those who've played have done the jersey proud over the last 3 weekends.

It was a great match up Saturday , but this is a bit melodramatic isn't it ?:

The end of the world should have happened on Saturday – at least it should have if you believe the Vikings. According to Norse mythology, the planet should have split open and unleashed the inhabitants of the underworld. Then, it is said, Norse gods Thor, Loki, Odin, Freyr, Hermóðr, would have taken part in an epic battle. The planet would then have fallen into the sea and life as we know it would have come to an end. The Guardian
Anyone see that ?

gregortree wrote:It was a great match up Saturday , but this is a bit melodramatic isn't it ?:

The end of the world should have happened on Saturday – at least it should have if you believe the Vikings. According to Norse mythology, the planet should have split open and unleashed the inhabitants of the underworld. Then, it is said, Norse gods Thor, Loki, Odin, Freyr, Hermóðr, would have taken part in an epic battle. The planet would then have fallen into the sea and life as we know it would have come to an end. The Guardian
Anyone see that ?

Who wrote that?  It sounds oh suspiciously like a bunch of Eddie Butlerism twaddle???  Am I right?

He was over on the Winter Olympics thing doing his poetry bits.  It's not that I dislike poetry (even the prose kind) - but I do dislike the reverence attached to it! - and Eddie does milk the bullschit at times.

Has Eddie Butler seeping from the sentences alright. Sometimes I like his dramatic montages but they can get a little contrived and sensational.

Secret
No, don't blame Eddie this time, but I see what you mean.
I undersatnd it was a legend written long ago by the Norse seers, and now published in the Guardian.
They got the dates a bit wrong as even the ancient Norse would not allow all this to happen until after the 6N had concluded. Anyway wasn't Dublin a Viking town ? Maybe they wrote it there. James Joyce outshines Eddie on this kind of writing.

Maybe Tommy Bowe will return to sprighten the Irish presence on the International scene.

Now that he's in his fourth decade like...

Are Irish posters worried that their current 12 and 13 (first choice) won't be their first choice or even available come the RWC in 18 months time?

Not many games to blood a new partnership?

One thing I would say about this Ireland team is that it is better balanced than years gone by but less likely to snatch a victory with individual brilliance. If you can win the contests against Ireland you will win the game. Against BOD in his hayday that wasn't always the case.

fa0019 wrote:Are Irish posters worried that their current 12 and 13 (first choice) won't be their first choice or even available come the RWC in 18 months time?

Not many games to blood a new partnership?

A little but not overly so - Luke Marshall is pushing D'arcy and has a few caps already. At provincial level he's played alongside both Jared Payne, Darren Cave and Stuart Olding who will both be in the mix for the centre positions.

People seem to forget D'arcy is contracted until the RWC so it could be him plus A.N. Other too. Madigan and Fitzgerald are options.

Other than that its about people combining with Henshaw, who could be the next Irish 13.

I think most combinations are familiar with each other and there is still time but not a huge amount.

Well we have Jared Payne (who oozes class) pencilled in for the 13 spot next year when he becomes elligible to play in green. As for 12 there is a fine crop to pick from in Ireland and from an Ulster perspective alone I wouldn't look beyond Stuart Olding or Luke Marshall. In fact Ireland is coming down with centres

fa0019 wrote:Are Irish posters worried that their current 12 and 13 (first choice) won't be their first choice or even available come the RWC in 18 months time?

Not many games to blood a new partnership?

One thing I would say about this Ireland team is that it is better balanced than years gone by but less likely to snatch a victory with individual brilliance. If you can win the contests against Ireland you will win the game. Against BOD in his hayday that wasn't always the case.

Most people in Ireland would admit and know that the Irish team playing these last three games is without quite a few of its players with 'individual brilliance.' This is a team designed to take from the best players 'form-wise' to build momentum for a new coaching set-up. We are solidifying before we try to get too creative. And results so far show that bit by bit that 'solidifying' process is working. We are playing a full 80 minutes now - every player is being honest in performance levels and we're varying our game, mixing it up. All three of those things are positives that weren't there towards the last years of the last coaching set-up.

So we're getting there. England is two years ahead under their boss - two years into his systems and methods. Ireland is doing pretty okay in Schmidt's first season. Players with 'individual brilliance'? O'Brien is out and to come back in. Healy can certainly do brilliant. Cronin is one super fast hooker. Zebo is scoring tries with a smile at Munster and will be an ingredient in the future. McFadden can often make things happen from very little - he's on the bench. Madigan, Marmion, Marshall, Bowe... We have quite a number of players that can have individual moments into the future.

I get the impression that the New brilliance people speak of is that ability to crush through defensive walls by big, straight running heavy backs? I don't regard that so much as brilliance as much as it is simple physics made to work - weight+impulse to make space. It's science - not necessarily individual brilliance.

Ireland are being looked down on a little in terms of the size of their backs, not their skill levels. The future will tell its story.

Pete303 wrote:Well we have Jared Payne (who oozes class) pencilled in for the 13 spot next year when he becomes elligible to play in green. As for 12 there is a fine crop to pick from in Ireland and from an Ulster perspective alone I wouldn't look beyond Stuart Olding or Luke Marshall. In fact Ireland is coming down with centres Smile

Jered Payne? I thought that Ireland's USP was its Irishness. And he'll be 31 come the RWC.

Stuart Olding will be 21. Good call but only one cap
Luke Marshall 23, ditto (5 caps)

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Jered Payne? I thought that Ireland's USP was its Irishness. And he'll be 31 come the RWC.

Stuart Olding will be 21. Good call but only one cap
Luke Marshall 23, ditto (5 caps)

There has always been one or two imports but never as many as some teams.

They sometimes play them immediately after alighting the long-haul plane, GG.

GunsGerms wrote:

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Jered Payne? I thought that Ireland's USP was its Irishness. And he'll be 31 come the RWC.

Stuart Olding will be 21. Good call but only one cap
Luke Marshall 23, ditto (5 caps)

There has always been one or two imports but never as many as some teams.

Sounds like your Project Player system hasn't been producing the goods.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:They sometimes play them immediately after alighting the long-haul plane, GG.

Thats happened twice. Michael Bent and Brian Smith. At least both had Irish heritage unlike Hape, Flutey, Vainokolo, Paul and other antipodean rugby league imports.

Cyril wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Jered Payne? I thought that Ireland's USP was its Irishness. And he'll be 31 come the RWC.

Stuart Olding will be 21. Good call but only one cap
Luke Marshall 23, ditto (5 caps)

There has always been one or two imports but never as many as some teams.

Sounds like your Project Player system needs hasn't been producing the goods.

Well I suppose a system that's purpose is to naturalise players not deemed good enough to play international rugby, which then produces players not good enough to play international rugby could be seen as producing the expected output, no?

no

Cyril wrote:Sounds like your Project Player system needs hasn't been producing the goods.

There is a quota system on imports. Unlike in England where they will take anyone who is willing to pretend they like warm beer and yorkshire puddings.

rodders wrote:

Cyril wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Jered Payne? I thought that Ireland's USP was its Irishness. And he'll be 31 come the RWC.

Stuart Olding will be 21. Good call but only one cap
Luke Marshall 23, ditto (5 caps)

There has always been one or two imports but never as many as some teams.

Sounds like your Project Player system needs hasn't been producing the goods.

Well I suppose a system that's purpose is to naturalise players not deemed good enough to play international rugby, which then produces players not good enough to play international rugby could be seen as producing the expected output, no?  

Don't worry yourself rodders I'm only replying in like to Guns and his concerted effort to denigrate England's win on all threads  Apparently the ref was a homer and the England side is full of foreigners, don't you know?

Cyril wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Jered Payne? I thought that Ireland's USP was its Irishness. And he'll be 31 come the RWC.

Stuart Olding will be 21. Good call but only one cap
Luke Marshall 23, ditto (5 caps)

There has always been one or two imports but never as many as some teams.

Sounds like your Project Player system needs hasn't been producing the goods.

No guarantees that just because you have a tan and a SH accent that you're going to outstep the indigenous ones, Cyril. The Projects come - if they're not good enough they stay in Provincial or move on to pastures new. Being good enough is the challenge.

Let's not go into the territory of laughing at folks with non-indigenous player hopes. It tends to get messy.

Cyril wrote:Don't worry yourself rodders I'm only replying in like to Guns and his concerted effort to denigrate England's win on all threads  Apparently the ref was a homer and the England side is full of foreigners, don't you know?

Go back to bed Cyril. I already said England were good value for their win. Stop being so needy.

GunsGerms wrote:

Cyril wrote:Sounds like your Project Player system needs hasn't been producing the goods.

There is a quota system on imports. Unlike in England where they will take anyone who is willing to pretend they like warm beer and yorkshire puddings.

there are 50 million plastic paddys in america- they pretend to be irish. Does your quota allow them in?

Cyril wrote:
Don't worry yourself rodders I'm only replying in like to Guns and his concerted effort to denigrate England's win on all threads  Apparently the ref was a homer and the England side is full of foreigners, don't you know?

Well I was being polite so decided not to mention it but as you've brought it up ......

mystiroakey wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Cyril wrote:Sounds like your Project Player system needs hasn't been producing the goods.

There is a quota system on imports. Unlike in England where they will take anyone who is willing to pretend they like warm beer and yorkshire puddings.

there are 50 million plastic paddys in america- they pretend to be irish. Does your quota allow them in?

Yes Ronan O'gara for example.

I do not see why not, if they can pass the 10 pints of Guiness & pound of spuds test, plus a round of Bushmills as a tie break.. c'mon on in.

well then get cracking on- you need that BOD replacements and fast.

Find a big bad Yank that failed at becoming a NFL player and feed him potato until it streams out of his pores

mystiroakey wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Cyril wrote:Sounds like your Project Player system needs hasn't been producing the goods.

There is a quota system on imports. Unlike in England where they will take anyone who is willing to pretend they like warm beer and yorkshire puddings.

there are 50 million plastic paddys in america- they pretend to be irish. Does your quota allow them in?

Well, there are 'pretend paddys' everywhere, mystir.  Liverpool would be full of them as I'm sure large swathes of London are too.  Call them 'pretenders' to their faces.

Anyway, like I said, the old Project Player topic always starts hitting below a Marquess of Queensberry belt of two.  So I suggest everyone finds a different topic.

SecretFly wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Cyril wrote:Sounds like your Project Player system needs hasn't been producing the goods.

There is a quota system on imports. Unlike in England where they will take anyone who is willing to pretend they like warm beer and yorkshire puddings.

there are 50 million plastic paddys in america- they pretend to be irish. Does your quota allow them in?

Well, there are 'pretend paddys' everywhere, mystir.  Liverpool would be full of them as I'm sure large swathes of London are too.  Call them 'pretenders' to their faces.

Anyway, like I said, the old Project Player topic always starts hitting below a Marquess of Queensberry belt of two.  So I suggest everyone finds a different topic.

I do ./

they are not evil like. well most arnt. And the insane drunk ones that do start screaming and swearing like frank from shameless are to slow to catch me

mystiroakey wrote:well then get cracking on- you need that BOD replacements and fast.

Find a big bad Yank that failed at becoming a NFL player and feed him potato until it streams out of his pores

Why potato?

GunsGerms wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:well then get cracking on- you need that BOD replacements and fast.

Find a big bad Yank that failed at becoming a NFL player and feed him potato until it streams out of his pores

Why potato?

I dunno someone said they needed to take a potato eating test

We've always had 'imports' as do all the other sides in the 6N and I for one have never commented on playing naturalised players in a negative way so perhaps those in glass houses etc etc.

On another subject I think JS addressed the comments on the match on saturday being men (Ireland) against boys (England) very well. The perception that this is an immature, emerging English side (or as someone commented on saturday "the Saxons beat the Irish full side") is an insult to the English players who are playing in the 1stXV because they are good enough and fit better Lancasters mould. The English will be a force of nature come RWC time mark my words.

I'd like to see more Samoan plastic paddies myself.

rodders wrote:I'd like to see more Samoan plastic paddies myself.

They just dont get the whole irish thing

They prefer tea and cake and pretending to be a queenie

mystiroakey wrote:

rodders wrote:I'd like to see more Samoan plastic paddies myself.

They just dont get the whole irish thing

They prefer tea and cake and pretending to be a queenie

That's ok they could move to Ballymena.

Back on Part 1, somebody mentioned the English players space food preparation vs Irish on spuds.
And it was an Irish fan.
Personally I think the Irish players prepare on pasta, seeds, salad and Tipperary water.

mystiroakey wrote:
I do ./

they are not evil like. well most arnt. And the insane drunk ones that do start screaming and swearing like frank from shameless are to slow to catch me

I'm delighted their only 'Pretend' ones then, mystir. You can keep them, they're obviously yours

Age is Ireland's most pressing concern not nationality.

Are zimmer frames allowed on a rugby pitch?

I did wonder if SL would have dropped BOD for refusing to come off v Wales had he been the coach. BOD added culpability of bed-blocking to his self-interest and arrogance.

Joe is running out of time.

gregortree wrote:Back on Part 1, somebody mentioned the English players space food preparation vs Irish on spuds.
And it was an Irish fan.
Personally I think the Irish players prepare on pasta, seeds, salad and Tipperary water.

Twas me, isn't it and becripes the f**k!

English Translation: "That would have been me, gregortree"

SecretFly wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:
I do ./

they are not evil like. well most arnt. And the insane drunk ones that do start screaming and swearing like frank from shameless are to slow to catch me

I'm delighted their only 'Pretend' ones then, mystir.  You can keep them, they're obviously yours

Well they all play for your football team mate.. 

We just have to pay and feed them- you get to support them

mystiroakey wrote:

They just dont get the whole irish thing

Of course you don't mystir, t'isn't them meant to be British afterall. It's confusing callin' them something else. I sympathise.

I get the irish thing..

I pretend to be irish when I go to dublin for a jolly.. I fit right in. Get drunk, swear, i love it

Secret, no prob, I do understand the brogue, if not the Gaelic.
Jamesons Paddy, or Bushmills ? Which is best ?
Entry test question for foreign imports.

whisky is not something the paddies need to be proud off. The scots have that wrapped up mate.

Its all about stout, enya and white pudding

mystiroakey wrote:I get the irish thing..

I pretend to be irish when I go to dublin for a jolly.. I fit right in. Get drunk, swear, i love it

Sounds like an English person on holidays to me.