Halfpenny versus Brown

One of the key clashes for me will be how Leigh halfpenny stands up to England's player of the tournament so far.

With both defenses so tight the aerial skills of both will come into question as will be their ability to make space on the counter.

Key decisions such as when to join the line of attack and when to hold a deep position to guard against a turn over, and reading of the opponents kicking game will be vital.

Halfpenny shone in the lions tour last year but has been a little off the pace so far this time. Can he lift his game for England's new super weapon?

Halfpenny shone in the lions tour last year but has been a little off the pace so far this time. Can he lift his game for England's new super weapon?

GE

The entire Wales team lift themselves for the game against England.

I think Brown is a better attacking fullback the Halfpenny.

But Halfpenny is a better kicker of the ball. Place kicking and kicking from hand.

It will be a key battle. Especially the tactics England use to sweep behind their line, which is notably different to the approach Wales take. Will this leave 1/2p exposed? Or will England fail to spot it in their usual direct approach to flooding the midfield with runners?

It would be tactical suicide for Wales to keep kicking the ball to England's back three. Halfpenny CAN counter attack - it just not part of the Welsh game plan (unfortunately)

GloriousEmpire wrote:One of the key clashes for me will be how Leigh halfpenny stands up to England's player of the tournament so far.

With both defenses so tight the aerial skills of both will come into question as will be their ability to make space on the counter.

Key decisions such as when to join the line of attack and when to hold a deep position to guard against a turn over, and reading of the opponents kicking game will be vital.

Halfpenny shone in the lions tour last year but has been a little off the pace so far this time. Can he lift his game for England's new super weapon?

no one has been able to contain brown yet- in any game he has played offensively

its more about can the england players react quick enough when brown has possesion.. He needs support runners..

thankfully Care knows a bit about Brown- the rest need to start learning

By The WAY GE is this an admittance that you were wrong about Brown?

May will graze his knee and Brown will return to the wing. He'll be checking under his bed for Tipuric for 2 weeks prior to the game   

I think its time to understand BROWN needs to be a player you shape your side  around.. he is ok on the wing- but you need rock solid defence on the wing and you lose so much by playing brown there- Nah we are past that brown on the wing nonsense

mystiroakey wrote:I think its time to understand BROWN needs to be a player you shape your side  around.. he is ok on the wing- but you need rock solid defence on the wing and you lose so much by playing brown there- Nah we are past that brown on the wing nonsense

Are you past playing Wood at 8 too ?

If one of your wingers does get injured before the Wales game who replaces them ? (genuine question)

yarde/ashton

Take out the supreme place kicking ability of Halfpenny and then value him vs. Brown.

Farrell is nearly as good with the boot... in fact his lions record was superior (albeit not in tests) but Farrell did break a little in last years GS match when he was under the cosh.

Likewise though Halfpenny is no clutch master. He's missed some massive kicks last minute deciding kicks in the RWC SF, Lions 2nd test etc both were semi-difficult which you would expect him to get.

As a 10-15 combo I'd rather have Farrell and Brown at current form than Priestland and Halfpenny.

Outside bet that Yarde might be fit - but probably only in a Dave Wilson sort of way. Best bet would be Watson

Brown is worth more on the street than a halfpenny...

Brown has been this year's 6N player of the tournament for me. He looked like a goalie last week with that sprawling line save.

Wales need Halfpenny to spark something on attack similar to what he did in the 3rd Lions test. It's a fascinating match up indeed GE but Brown is catching all the limelight at the moment and rightly so.

excluding place kicking, Brown is quite clearly dominant so far in the 6N tournament.

super-glue hands, especially against the Irish, where 1/2P struggled against Sexton and Kearney's kicking.

and very good carries and metres made, although one cant really criticise 1/2P for his lack here as he doesnt have the licence to carry. Long, in-field kick chase is the welsh way.

defensively they both look about equal in the tackle and positionally.

quinsforever wrote:they both look about equal in the tackle and positionally.

  

you disagree obviously. what is your view?

quinsforever wrote:you disagree obviously. what is your view?

Think he was holding back commenting on the innuendo there?

  

Is like to debate the big issues, let's not get hung up in the small points...

Brown tends to get more penetration coming from deep, but halfpenny has the better finish.

Halfpence has breath taking length

Most girls say Brown has the better hands though

Plenty of boys too

munkian wrote:It would be tactical suicide for Wales to keep kicking the ball to England's back three. Halfpenny CAN counter attack - it just not part of the Welsh game plan (unfortunately)

The man is spot on.

I have been immensely impressed with Brown both on and off the field, deserved MOTM two games running, gracious in defeat as well as victory.

But you have to remember that Halfpenny was selected as a rookie with very few first class games as a winger for the Lions before is MOTS four years later as a full back.

There was no doubt he was a try scoring animal, and rarely did he not score if he had the opportunity, he was a world class winger before he become one of the top three FBs in the world.

I would say Halfpenny is the more naturally footballer, and its only GatlandBall that makes him seem like a less attacking threat.

He does look like he has lost a little pace though

It was a nice move when Brown came inside Robshaw and then Care came steaming down the Brown channel to finish off.

Think the Welsh should be quite wary of that move. If it comes off it can be painful to watch.

I need a towel....

Brown is in very good form, but England do not have a superior back 3 to Wales. Have you seen how big North and Cuthbert are?

flyhalffactory wrote:

munkian wrote:It would be tactical suicide for Wales to keep kicking the ball to England's back three. Halfpenny CAN counter attack - it just not part of the Welsh game plan (unfortunately)

The man is spot on.

I have been immensely impressed with Brown both on and off the field, deserved MOTM two games running, gracious in defeat as well as victory.

But you have to remember that Halfpenny was selected as a rookie with very few first class games as a winger for the Lions before is MOTS four years later as a full back.

There was no doubt he was a try scoring animal, and rarely did he not score if he had the opportunity, he was a world class winger before he become one of the top three FBs in the world.

I would say Halfpenny is the more naturally footballer, and its only GatlandBall that makes him seem like a less attacking threat.

Thought it was interesting until I got to that favourite (meaningless) Welsh phrase 'World Class'. Why cant you just settle for very good? -which is what he was.

The Saint wrote:Brown is in very good form, but England do not have a superior back 3 to Wales. Have you seen how big North and Cuthbert are?

Not in that way no.

The Saint wrote:Brown is in very good form, but England do not have a superior back 3 to Wales. Have you seen how big North and Cuthbert are?

But wont North be playing centre and arms and legs on the wing?

lostinwales wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

munkian wrote:It would be tactical suicide for Wales to keep kicking the ball to England's back three. Halfpenny CAN counter attack - it just not part of the Welsh game plan (unfortunately)

The man is spot on.

I have been immensely impressed with Brown both on and off the field, deserved MOTM two games running, gracious in defeat as well as victory.

But you have to remember that Halfpenny was selected as a rookie with very few first class games as a winger for the Lions before is MOTS four years later as a full back.

There was no doubt he was a try scoring animal, and rarely did he not score if he had the opportunity, he was a world class winger before he become one of the top three FBs in the world.

I would say Halfpenny is the more naturally footballer, and its only GatlandBall that makes him seem like a less attacking threat.

Thought it was interesting until I got to that favourite (meaningless) Welsh phrase 'World Class'. Why cant you just settle for very good? -which is what he was.

That is a silly boy reply......... for two reasons
1. I am Scottish.
2. He was a great converter of opportunities, his try to opportunity ratio in his early days as a winger was in the top three. Hence if "world class" offends your sensitive soul, then we can sooth your troubled brow and revert to he was very good.

By the way Brown is playing at this point very very good (I would say he has had two world class performances but obviously you don't like the term), but as a winger he was very very average.

I worry reading threads like this, I try to avoid commenting on England threads as I could get riled up, but reading this 'Brown is far better' kind of thread is what is wrong with English rugby in general.

Brown is a superb full back, but so is halfp, to say Brown is better is a bit soft, when our attack is based around he, Care and the speed and counter, whereas Wales plan is the pressure game with a lower risk umbrella.

They are both playing totally differing gameplans, but are both potential match winners.

I would highlight this as a non battle though, Farell/Nowell v Halfp is a bigger battle, as is the set peice, and back row/openside.

Wales without territory and set peice are beatable, Wales with those things are too much to handle for anyone, I want to see us win it from 1-5, because thats where the winning of this game will come from

halfpenny is not a world class winger and never has been. Top class 15 sure but his place kicking has a lot to do with that. But lets take a stab of reality here... the 2 biggest kicks he'll perhaps ever take in his life save a world cup final he missed (the kick to take Wales into the RWC final in 2011 and the kick to win the series in the 2nd test in the Lions series). Top class kicker, clutch performer at the crunch, debatable at this stage in his career.

In terms of 15 take his kicking out of the equation and then measure him up to Brown, Kearney & Hogg.... let alone Beale, Folau, Le Roux and Dagg.

Not saying he's anything less but he's not standout from those fullbacks in the home nations let alone in the world.

I'll live with that

I always did wonder about the going from being a good winger to an average full back thing (albeit with a fantastic boot) but he has been solid. I have also thought that when Wales have been at their most boring and predictable having a smaller agile winger on one flank would have helped to add variety to their attack.

fa0019 wrote:halfpenny is not a world class winger and never has been. Top class 15 sure but his place kicking has a lot to do with that. But lets take a stab of reality here... the 2 biggest kicks he'll perhaps ever take in his life save a world cup final he missed (the kick to take Wales into the RWC final in 2011 and the kick to win the series in the 2nd test in the Lions series). Top class kicker, clutch performer at the crunch, debatable at this stage in his career.

In terms of 15 take his kicking out of the equation and then measure him up to Brown, Kearney & Hogg.... let alone Beale, Folau, Le Roux and Dagg.

Not saying he's anything less but he's not standout from those fullbacks in the home nations let alone in the world.

Including Brown, who is yet to cement his name on the list of elite for me, is where your post loses touch. When you mention Hogg, that's the point where it loses credibility entirely.

fa0019 wrote:halfpenny is not a world class winger and never has been. Top class 15 sure but his place kicking has a lot to do with that. But lets take a stab of reality here... the 2 biggest kicks he'll perhaps ever take in his life save a world cup final he missed (the kick to take Wales into the RWC final in 2011 and the kick to win the series in the 2nd test in the Lions series). Top class kicker, clutch performer at the crunch, debatable at this stage in his career.

In terms of 15 take his kicking out of the equation and then measure him up to Brown, Kearney & Hogg.... let alone Beale, Folau, Le Roux and Dagg.

Not saying he's anything less but he's not standout from those fullbacks in the home nations let alone in the world.

I dislike posts like this, if we take away Halfp kicking game which he has worked to develop under Gatland I'm sure then how would Dagg fare without his speed? How would Folau fare without his size? How would Kearney fare without his experience?

Brown has without doubt been very very good this year. However everyone knows what he is going to do and coaches will no doubt be working on methods which will turn his perceived strengths into weaknesses. He runs nearly everything which is great when it works but a car crash when it doesn't.

That Jonny May is also a car crash waiting to happen. The only time I have seen such a headless chicken running around in circles / across the field / backwards, is watching the under 8s at our club. The boy is clueless has he ever been coached?

Just wait till Mike runs at the line and you commit 2 men to him and then he offloads to Care or May in clear space with a run in then


The things the coaches will be working on against him are also predictable and exploitable, and Mike can distribute and offload very well (he has even done for England on occasion) and has a huge boot and is a great kick-chaser for his own kicks.

On May, he certainly needs to calm the Frak down...

It wasn't that long ago that Brown was seen as a defensive, kicking option Fullback as well. Funny how quickly new impressions can be made...

ChequeredJersey wrote:It wasn't that long ago that Brown was seen as a defensive, kicking option Fullback as well. Funny how quickly new impressions can be made...

He has bulked up an awful lot over recent years. Fair to say?

With North at 13 the English and Welsh back 3 is comparable

Scratch wrote:With North at 13 the English and Welsh back 3 is comparable

I'd say Wales would have the edge in experience, we would have a bigger edge in form?

May - didnt you just love that scream near the end when the England pack had turned over the ball. Passion. He is going to score a couple of fantastic tries for England, eventually.....

butterfingers wrote:

Scratch wrote:With North at 13 the English and Welsh back 3 is comparable

I'd say Wales would have the edge in experience, we would have a bigger edge in form?

Brown is not the back 3, i have seen nothing from the other 2 to suggest they have superior form - e.g. Nowell v France and May squandering a try scoring chance v Ire. RIght now any references to a superior back 3 suggest that those two are hanging on tightly to Brown's coat tails.

In Wales, 1/2 has been effective and i think Williams has been a good replacement for North, seen little from Cuthbert and he needs to up his game

The FBs are a less interesting battle than the wings IMO. Brown and 1/2p more-or-less cancel each other out with Brown having the edge in form.

When North is on the wing, then the Englishman is worth 2 of any other mortal men (and that's without the Weetabix). But if he's in the centre then the back 3 battle becomes far more interesting. Cuthbert's ok but limited defensively, Nowell is a mixture of excellent and terrible, May is a roadrunner who is either going to be unstoppable or just droppable and Williams (is it?) is unremarkable. Too early to say for sure, but neither back 3 dominates the other at the moment.

GunsGerms wrote:

The Saint wrote:Brown is in very good form, but England do not have a superior back 3 to Wales. Have you seen how big North and Cuthbert are?

But wont North be playing centre and arms and legs on the wing?

J2D set to be fit so George back to the wing

If Wales are able to field North, Cuthbert and 1/2p as their back 3, a rational assessment would have to give them the edge there, considering how untried and untested the England wings are. They are promising but look fairly raw; North and Cuthbert have proved themselves many times. Not that they are without their defensive frailties.

Liam Williams is a very good FB, not more than a stop-gap winger, though.

Where England worry me most, as usual, is the pack. I can see them messing up our lineout for starters. Would have been more worried with Corbisiero, and to a lesser extent Cole, but it's still a strong pack.

dragonbreath wrote:
That Jonny May is also a car crash waiting to happen. The only time I have seen such a headless chicken running around in circles / across the field / backwards,  is watching the under 8s at our club. The boy is clueless has he ever been coached?

Well 24 tries in 50 club apps isn't too clueless and I suspect goes some way into explaining his inclusion.

Still made 80 metres and beat 6 defenders on Saturday - not bad when you're mostly running sideways.

EnglishReign wrote:

dragonbreath wrote:
That Jonny May is also a car crash waiting to happen. The only time I have seen such a headless chicken running around in circles / across the field / backwards,  is watching the under 8s at our club. The boy is clueless has he ever been coached?

Well 24 tries in 50 club apps isn't too clueless and I suspect goes some way into explaining his inclusion.

Still made 80 metres and beat 6 defenders on Saturday - not bad when you're mostly running sideways.

How many tries in international rugby? If you listen to guys like Beshocked that was all that matters, must have suited his anti-welsh winger argument at the time, because for what it's worth May is a dangerous winger. As is Nowell.