Halfpenny versus Brown

First topic message reminder :

One of the key clashes for me will be how Leigh halfpenny stands up to England's player of the tournament so far.

With both defenses so tight the aerial skills of both will come into question as will be their ability to make space on the counter.

Key decisions such as when to join the line of attack and when to hold a deep position to guard against a turn over, and reading of the opponents kicking game will be vital.

Halfpenny shone in the lions tour last year but has been a little off the pace so far this time. Can he lift his game for England's new super weapon?

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Has he lost it for England yet?

He definitely lost his virginity on the new zealand tour

not sure I heard that was a topsy turvey story

There was four of them accused of "having a go" (Ojo, Brown and Care named by Blackett, the media helpful then told us that Strettle was the one he didnt release the name of) ...Care and Strettle were found to be innocent of any wrongdoing (How little they knew Care back then!), Ojo and Brown fined. Still not sure who went first though.
Amazing it took him another 7 years to score again

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:What next guys? Correct my spelling and grammar?  

I dont think its that unreasonable to fact check especially when its been covered multiple times on the same page.

Really its your opinions we'd like to correct, but I suspect thats somewhat difficult.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:What next guys? Correct my spelling and grammar?  

I dont think its that unreasonable to fact check especially when its been covered multiple times on the same page.

Really its your opinions we'd like to correct, but I suspect thats somewhat difficult.

That was eloquent

ChequeredJersey wrote:How about this: I bet you one apologetic post that Brown will score a try next weekend against Wales and Halfpenny will only score points in multiples of 2 or 3? And another one that Brown will end the 6N as 2014 Man of the Tournament

I bet Brown wont score v Wales but will v Italy. Also its possible but Brown may not finish as player of the tournament if England dont win it so it is early days yet.

If they were voting now he would have a decent chance (alongside O'Mahony, Lawes and one or two others no doubt). Still 2 games to go in which absolutely anything could happen, as was proved in the last game of last season which went a long way to deciding all manner of things, not least the make-up of a large portion of the Lions' squad.

ChequeredJersey wrote:How about this: I bet you one apologetic post that Brown will score a try next weekend against Wales and Halfpenny will only score points in multiples of 2 or 3? And another one that Brown will end the 6N as 2014 Man of the Tournament

if 1/2 only ever scores 2s and 3s again i will be happy, it is a team game. That is his role on team orders. He has still outscored brown on games per try (13/51 v 2/23) I don't see Brown contributing an average 7.5 points per game or winning a Lions series any time soon.

GunsGerms wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:How about this: I bet you one apologetic post that Brown will score a try next weekend against Wales and Halfpenny will only score points in multiples of 2 or 3? And another one that Brown will end the 6N as 2014 Man of the Tournament

I bet Brown wont score v Wales but will v Italy. Also its possible but Brown may not finish as player of the tournament if England dont win it so it is early days yet.

Done.

I know it's early but we are 3 matches in and only players who get a MotM are eligible at all for MotT, which means the options so far are:

Campagnaro- possible but big call given he's Italian and they can't win
Huget- definite possibility, even though I don't think he was France's best player in either of their wins
Heaslip- set back by England game but definitely on
POM- see above, 2 great matches tehn a 3rd where he was literally invisible, in a not good way
Brown- definite possibility with 2 MotMs and a good performance w/ try out of position in the other game
Fofana- injured now so he won't get it
Jenkins- would be a surprise, albeit it a nice one, if a prop won. Plus one who didn't start in one match and was poor in another
Furno- see Campagnaro, very unlikely

Out of those, Huget, POM, Heaslip and Brown are real options, Brown ahead atm, though some players haven't been far behind the MotMs and if one of them got one soon then it makes their chances more likely.

But the point of a bet like this is that there is at least some risk of being wrong...

Scratch wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:How about this: I bet you one apologetic post that Brown will score a try next weekend against Wales and Halfpenny will only score points in multiples of 2 or 3? And another one that Brown will end the 6N as 2014 Man of the Tournament

if 1/2 only ever scores 2s and 3s again i will be happy, it is a team game. That is his role on team orders. He has still outscored brown on games per try (13/51 v 2/23) I don't see Brown contributing an average 7.5 points per game or winning a Lions series any time soon.

Well, he doesn't kick, so would be very hard (nigh impossible) for him to do the former. As for the latter, we'll have to wait 3 years anyway, where Brown will be old. I think Halfpenny is a great player and if the question was "who has had the greater career and would be a great if they retired now" Halfpenny would be the answer. But the currently better FB is clearly, clearly Brown, the man who is actually playing well.


As for the try scoring record, I don't deny that, but let's see where both end up in terms of long term quality and look at recent record in terms of short term. Brown is clearly on top in the latter, we'll have to wait on the former

jelly wrote:If they were voting now he would have a decent chance (alongside O'Mahony, Lawes and one or two others no doubt). Still 2 games to go in which absolutely anything could happen, as was proved in the last game of last season which went a long way to deciding all manner of things, not least the make-up of a large portion of the Lions' squad.

Lawes isn't eligible for it yet

so between brown and halftuppence . basically do you prefer the brown or pink . brown the inform 15 at the moment but what better way to find out a week Sunday . halfpenny kicking against browns tantrums   

jimmyinthewell68 wrote: so between brown and  halftuppence . basically do you prefer the brown or pink . brown the inform 15 at the moment but what better way to find out a week Sunday . halfpenny kicking against browns tantrums   

If that's the criteria I reckon the thing that exists (the kicking) is probably ahead

ChequeredJersey wrote:

jelly wrote:If they were voting now he would have a decent chance (alongside O'Mahony, Lawes and one or two others no doubt). Still 2 games to go in which absolutely anything could happen, as was proved in the last game of last season which went a long way to deciding all manner of things, not least the make-up of a large portion of the Lions' squad.

Lawes isn't eligible for it yet

Yeah, hadn't realised you could only get it if you'd won MOTM in one of the games.

Launchbery is an outside bet for player of the tournament too.

Nice that Lawes is playing so well and getting plaudits but if you had to choose between the 2 there is no contest.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Done.

I know it's early but we are 3 matches in and only players who get a MotM are eligible at all for MotT, which means the options so far are:

Campagnaro- possible but big call given he's Italian and they can't win
Huget- definite possibility, even though I don't think he was France's best player in either of their wins
Heaslip- set back by England game but definitely on
POM- see above, 2 great matches tehn a 3rd where he was literally invisible, in a not good way
Brown- definite possibility with 2 MotMs and a good performance w/ try out of position in the other game
Fofana- injured now so he won't get it
Jenkins- would be a surprise, albeit it a nice one, if a prop won. Plus one who didn't start in one match and was poor in another
Furno- see Campagnaro, very unlikely

Out of those, Huget, POM, Heaslip and Brown are real options, Brown ahead atm, though some players haven't been far behind the MotMs and if one of them got one soon then it makes their chances more likely.

But the point of a bet like this is that there is at least some risk of being wrong...

The bet was he wouldnt score v Wales. There is a very good chance he will be man of the tournament.

GunsGerms wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Done.

I know it's early but we are 3 matches in and only players who get a MotM are eligible at all for MotT, which means the options so far are:

Campagnaro- possible but big call given he's Italian and they can't win
Huget- definite possibility, even though I don't think he was France's best player in either of their wins
Heaslip- set back by England game but definitely on
POM- see above, 2 great matches tehn a 3rd where he was literally invisible, in a not good way
Brown- definite possibility with 2 MotMs and a good performance w/ try out of position in the other game
Fofana- injured now so he won't get it
Jenkins- would be a surprise, albeit it a nice one, if a prop won. Plus one who didn't start in one match and was poor in another
Furno- see Campagnaro, very unlikely

Out of those, Huget, POM, Heaslip and Brown are real options, Brown ahead atm, though some players haven't been far behind the MotMs and if one of them got one soon then it makes their chances more likely.

But the point of a bet like this is that there is at least some risk of being wrong...

The bet was he wouldnt score v Wales. There is a very good chance he will be man of the tournament.

Cool, both bets that could easily go either way.

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:Brown scored his first try for England the other week v the mighty Scotland,
Now he is better than the writers player of the year,lions and 2013 six nations player of the tournament,grand slam winner,lions series winner,triple crown winning Leigh Halfpenny?

You got love this website   

yes i agree. not Brown's fault if 1/2P is throwing intercept passes, knocking on, missing kicks.

Delete

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/10669918/Six-Nations-2014-Englands-brilliant-No-15-Mike-Brown-is-worlds-apart-from-his-rivals.html

I don't like that we are building him up too much. Can't the press hold off hyperbole?

To be fair its the headline writers that have turned it into hyperbole, the main text is actually a proper analysis of his game

He says he thinks Brown compares favourably to Dagg and Folau

Rugby players are rarely affected by these things to be honest..

Yeah but will they be when it all falls down around them and the support turns to vitriol?

Will the media ever change?

to be fair to them in this case it is after brown being England's best player on the last half dozen appearances..

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/10669918/Six-Nations-2014-Englands-brilliant-No-15-Mike-Brown-is-worlds-apart-from-his-rivals.html

That's some serious hype after one decent game in an England shirt. If anyone there was talking about a Welsh player this site would go absolutely crazy and we'd see hundreds of posts slagging off Wales.

One decent game..

you don't watch many games to you saint

Frankly, there are too many Sirs from yesteryear getting involved in pumping up rhetoric - especially as it regards England.

Players and commentators from closer to the present are much more coy and use language that can be measured in a real context of knowing that there are some pretty difficult players spread throughout many of the top teams.  A day here and a day there, a move here or a mistake there can decide which of those sides (and players) come out on top.  Halfpenny was all the news last year.  This year?................ Neutralised?

Woodward sees everything in the future through the prism of what his players did circa 2003.  And McGeechan sees everything through the Lens of his specialised subject - The Lions.
But neither of them have coached sides really anything like the sides that are rushing through 80 minute games now with viciousness, often breathtaking pace, breakdown fury, creative bite and an attention to set-piece delivery all in the one game, all in the one team often.

Their age is gone - but they're doing their psychology on it anyway.  If the English players listen to it all - the "special"ness, the "world's apart" then they might actually use that talk positively and improve even more with the foundation of confidence being given to them................. but....................... we've been here before..............many times.  Sometimes less is more and sitting on 'praise' can often be the best policy.  Keep 'em hungry, don't lavish them with plaudits too early.

POM of President though!!!!!  

Secret Fly, that's a good point. Don't get me wrong, I get behind England as they're my second team, but it is just me that thinks they aren't nowhere near as good as being made out?

Brown is not the best FB in the world


However, if you think he has only had 1 "decent" game in an England shirt (esp given he has 3 motm awards...), you are either:

a) incurably biased
b) blind, in which case I am sorry
c) haven't watched more than 1 England game in the past 6 months
d) scared and trying to convince yourself he isn't a threat
e) any combination of the above

Which one is it?

Now SL as got over the 'lets play Brown on the wing' phase we are seeing what a class act he is.

I got no problems with acknowledging class regardless of team or Country and Brown is class as is Halfpenny. I think Brown has been given more of a free reign than Halfpenny as but thats the difference in game styles.

Out of interest can Brown kick or if Farrell had an off day with te boot whose is back up in the starting XV?

bedfordwelsh wrote:Now SL as got over the 'lets play Brown on the wing' phase we are seeing what a class act he is.

I got no problems with acknowledging class regardless of team or Country and Brown is class as is Halfpenny.  I think Brown has been given more of a free reign than Halfpenny as but thats the difference in game styles.

Out of interest can Brown kick or if Farrell had an off day with te boot whose is back up in the starting XV?

Brown could conceivably kick for touch but I'd be having palpitations if he had to goal kick

in the starting XV, it's Twelvetrees, then probably Care at a stretch, then maybe Brown, I don't know about May

Off the bench, Ford can kick but it isn't a strength (Twelvetrees a better option IMO from the tee) and if Goode is there he can goal kick

Eastmond can kick for goal as well I think

CJ,

Cheers, it was just something that came to me thinking of the Brown Halfpenny debate.

[quote="bedfordwelsh"]Now SL as got over the 'lets play Brown on the wing' phase we are seeing what a class act he is.

I got no problems with acknowledging class regardless of team or Country and Brown is class as is Halfpenny.  I think Brown has been given more of a free reign than Halfpenny as but thats the difference in game styles.

Well said. That's brown and halp in a nutshell.

The one obvious advantage Halfpenny has is his kicking at goal so until Wales discover another kicker in the Jenkins mould then he will always be pushing for a starting slot.

SLightly off topic but it will be interesting to see him at Toulon next season given that Wilko will I presume be 1st choice kicker still.

Isn't Wilko retiring?

i think wilko agreed a 1yr extension after coach, owner and fan pleading.

So Flood isn't even going to be starting in France?

Flood's going to Toulouse, not Toulon.

Ah, making lots of errors lately, sorry

On the two full backs

H/P is a class act, but is not in 100% form this 6 nations and has made quite a few uncharacteristic mistakes

Brown, is currently on form and imo player better just now

That is all you can really say about them, as it will take years of them playing to be able to tell who is the best at the end of their careers (and even then maybe not)

I think it's a bit difficult to compare Halfpenny and Brown at the moment.  They have different strengths and styles, and play in teams with different approaches to the game.  Both are very good.  Though I do think Halfpenny is not quite at his form of last season (culminating in that third Lions Test).

Cyril wrote:Flood's going to Toulouse, not Toulon.

I think hes intending to win, and him going at all is too long.

He is hoping to Bearitz lad tho

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:I think hes intending to win, and him going at all is too long.

Barney McGrew did it wrote:He is hoping to Bearitz lad tho

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