ON THIS DAY IN HISTORY

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing/article-2566735/Its-50-years-feat-Clay-shook-world-changed-course-history.html

Clay beats Liston to become the youngest ever HW champion of the World.

Thought it might be worth a mention

Thinking about this the other day, Dave. Some historian of sorts (no idea what his name is) theorised that the three vital moments which defined the sixties and laid the foundations for the way the world has been shaped since all came within three months of each other; Kennedy's assassination, The Beatles touching down in New York for the first time, and then Clay upsetting Liston and announcing himself as king.

Probably a bit overblown for some people's taste, but still a phenomenal and massively important moment in sporting history.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2567250/Newly-released-FBI-files-released-50th-anniversary-legendary-Ali-vs-Liston-1964-championship-bout-reveal-suspicions-rigged-mob.html

Chris is right...........A defining moment in the sport of boxing..........

Wonderful, wonderful performance.....Showing that speed and a great jab will dent any menacing bully........Stole Liston's heart and kick started for me the greatest fighter in history's career.......

TopHat24/7 wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2567250/Newly-released-FBI-files-released-50th-anniversary-legendary-Ali-vs-Liston-1964-championship-bout-reveal-suspicions-rigged-mob.html

Something I've long suspected -- doesn't look like it will ever be proven, though.

Guess all the ringsiders that heard the thuds hitting Liston's face and seeing his eye swell up..

Imagined it.........

Reckon Douglas-Tyson was fixed too............After all similar fight..Where a pressure fighting bully gets owned by a jab..

Bonafide victory for me........Liston as history proved just wasn't in the same league...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Guess all the ringsiders that heard the thuds hitting Liston's face and seeing his eye swell up..

Imagined it.........

Reckon Douglas-Tyson was fixed too............After all similar fight..Where a pressure fighting bully gets owned by a jab..

Bonafide victory for me........Liston as history proved just wasn't in the same league...

I guess everyone sees what they want to see.

I agree Mate...........But trashing one of the greatest performances of alltime because an organisation as twonky as the FBI were interested is a bit of a reach...

The FBI refused to believe there was a Cosa Nostra in America back in the day !!.......

They didn't take 9/11 intelligence seriously.........

They are a joke..

Think Ali deserves a bit more respect......I know you liked Liston and there was much to like but he was outclassed.......

The second fight........That's another story..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I agree Mate...........But trashing one of the greatest performances of alltime because an organisation as twonky as the FBI were interested is a bit of a reach...

The FBI refused to believe there was a Cosa Nostra in America back in the day !!.......

They didn't take 9/11 intelligence seriously.........

They are a joke..

Think Ali deserves a bit more respect......I know you liked Liston and there was much to like but he was outclassed.......

The second fight........That's another story..

I see a guy pulling his punches in that first fight and lying down (in one of the most pathetic attempts at acting ever captured on film) in the second.

I don't think it hurts Ali's legacy in the slightest.

If people took this seriously it would hurt his legacy...

Because people would say he couldn't have beaten Liston without it being fixed....

People forget how dis-spiriting being on the end of a jab can be for a fighter....and someone in your ear telling you..you look crap..

Look at Leonard - Duran 2..........

You watch Tyson-Lewis and Tyson had basically given up by the end of the second because he couldn't get close.....

Same applied here...........

Second fight........Like Big Cat Williams he lost his bottle..

Ali was a very confident.... cocky fighter.......Guys like Liston and Tyson prey on intimidating the opposition........

As I said bonafide for me.............He whips Liston all day every day...

Like everybody else who ever lived and fought at heavy..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:If people took this seriously it would hurt his legacy...

Because people would say he couldn't have beaten Liston without it being fixed....

People forget how dis-spiriting being on the end of a jab can be for a fighter....and someone in your ear telling you..you look crap..

Look at Leonard - Duran 2..........

You watch Tyson-Lewis and Tyson had basically given up by the end of the second because he couldn't get close.....

Same applied here...........

Second fight........Like Big Cat Williams he lost his bottle..

Ali was a very confident.... cocky fighter.......Guys like Liston and Tyson prey on intimidating the opposition........

As I said bonafide for me.............He whips Liston all day every day...

Like everybody else who ever lived and fought at heavy..

I didn't read the first Liston fight that way -- the fight was level after six remember (Ali had asked Dundee to cut off his gloves at the end of a previous round). Liston chased Ali all over the ring but couldn't get off. It has always looked to me that he was pulling his punches. The notion that the first fight was rigged would make sense in that regard.

He flat out lay down in the second fight without even catching a solid enough shot (even Ali is doing his nut at Liston having fluffed his lines).

You think Marciano v Walcott 2 was rigged ??

Liston always insisted he didn't lay down and that he was up on his feet fighting when he was stopped......Hardly the act of a man who was throwing a fight ??

First fight was completely on the level for me, Ali was just too good. The only reason it was close Haz was because Ali was near enough blind for a round and a half (foreign substance on Listons gloves), now a guy about to throw a fight doesn't go to such lengths to try and win.

I agree whilst I think the 2nd was Liston caving in..........There is more of a case with that one..

Although liston could have stayed down !!

Hammersmith harrier wrote:First fight was completely on the level for me, Ali was just too good. The only reason it was close Haz was because Ali was near enough blind for a round and a half (foreign substance on Listons gloves)

Allegedly.

Allegedly is good enough...........Up to the sceptics to prove it wasn't........

I think Manny may be naughty......Till he's found out.... his legacy is intact....

If Ali was blind why didn't Liston just knock him out?

Liston badly tarnished his legacy,  In return he got a $1,000,000.

Without the Ali debacles Liston could well be in the Top 5 ATG's.

Was never a fan of Sonny's.  He has never seemed that likeable to me.

If a million dollars back then is worth several times now..........Why fight 15 times after Ali ??

He wasn't quick enough to catch Ali..and you don't like Ali

If Holy beat Lewis and Bowe he'd be top 3.

hazharrison wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:First fight was completely on the level for me, Ali was just too good. The only reason it was close Haz was because Ali was near enough blind for a round and a half (foreign substance on Listons gloves)

Allegedly.

Forgotten Milkys lecture already?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:If a million dollars back then is worth several times now..........Why fight 15 times after Ali ??

He wasn't quick enough to catch Ali..and you don't like Ali

If Holy beat Lewis and Bowe he'd be top 3.

Holyfield did beat Bowe.

Liston was quick enough - he completely outboxed Clay in the 4th and also took 3 and 5.

Not that I'm making excuses for him - he made his bed.

ShahenshahG wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:First fight was completely on the level for me, Ali was just too good. The only reason it was close Haz was because Ali was near enough blind for a round and a half (foreign substance on Listons gloves)

Allegedly.

Forgotten Milkys lecture already?

On?

You're right..... but I meant the trilogy with Bowe..........my mistake.

Duran won a couple of rounds against Leonard and quit Mate...

The 6th is the pivotal round me thinks when he realised it's not my night..

Like I said sometimes when you like a fighter .......The truth hurts....

Did when Curry lost to Honey...........

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You're right..... but I meant the trilogy with Bowe..........my mistake.

Duran won a couple of rounds against Leonard and quit Mate...

The 6th is the pivotal round me thinks when he realised it's not my night..

Like I said sometimes when you like a fighter .......The truth hurts....

Did when Curry lost to Honey...........

Well, maybe. We'll probably never know and so my theories are nothing more than that. Not a huge fan of Liston the man - much prefer Ali.

hazharrison wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:First fight was completely on the level for me, Ali was just too good. The only reason it was close Haz was because Ali was near enough blind for a round and a half (foreign substance on Listons gloves)

Allegedly.

Forgotten Milkys lecture already?

On?

Using the evidence you have seen with your eyes rather than someone elses report?

hazharrison wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You're right..... but I meant the trilogy with Bowe..........my mistake.

Duran won a couple of rounds against Leonard and quit Mate...

The 6th is the pivotal round me thinks when he realised it's not my night..

Like I said sometimes when you like a fighter .......The truth hurts....

Did when Curry lost to Honey...........

Well, maybe. We'll probably never know and so my theories are nothing more than that. Not a huge fan of Liston the man - much prefer Ali.

Not a fan of a man who was born into poverty in a large family. Growing up in a country where there was no place for people like him in society, in and out of jail as a result of there being no place to go in society for people like him, finds his calling in the boxing ring the hardest career path, establishes himself as the best amongst his peers, becoms champion of the world yet is still hated.

40 years after his death a group of boxing fans on an online sports forum remember his name and what he acheived.......whats not to like about a man who made a name for himself when all the odds were against him?

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You're right..... but I meant the trilogy with Bowe..........my mistake.

Duran won a couple of rounds against Leonard and quit Mate...

The 6th is the pivotal round me thinks when he realised it's not my night..

Like I said sometimes when you like a fighter .......The truth hurts....

Did when Curry lost to Honey...........

Well, maybe. We'll probably never know and so my theories are nothing more than that. Not a huge fan of Liston the man - much prefer Ali.

Not a fan of a man who was born into poverty in a large family. Growing up in a country where there was no place for people like him in society, in and out of jail as a result of there being no place to go in society for people like him, finds his calling in the boxing ring the hardest career path, establishes himself as the best amongst his peers, becoms champion of the world yet is still hated.

40 years after his death a group of boxing fans on an online sports forum remember his name and what he acheived.......whats not to like about a man who made a name for himself when all the odds were against him?

I don't dislike him or hate him. I'm pretty ambivalent towards Liston. Loved the fighter, though. Possibly the most underrated fighter who ever lived.

I don't know Don Curry personally either..

88Chris05 wrote:Thinking about this the other day, Dave. Some historian of sorts (no idea what his name is) theorised that the three vital moments which defined the sixties and laid the foundations for the way the world has been shaped since all came within three months of each other; Kennedy's assassination, The Beatles touching down in New York for the first time, and then Clay upsetting Liston and announcing himself as king.

Probably a bit overblown for some people's taste, but still a phenomenal and massively important moment in sporting history.

I would have thought the moon landing may have been in there somewhere, but that's just me!!