Is The Six Nations Too Long?

I can understand and empathise with a break in the six nations, at the "half way" point. But splitting 5 games over 7 week ends just takes all the momentum out of the tournament for me.

Given that the competition is so compressed geographically, I don't see the need for two rest weekends. Contrast this to the RC or RWC where the schedule is much tighter.

We could reduce the length of the season by playing over 6 week-ends. This would for instance allow British club competitions to finish a week earlier, allowing NH sides to take full strength sqauds to the SH rather than always bringing a weakened side down for parts of the tour.

You could even stagger the rest week so we get teams resting on alternate weekends, just to try and keep the interest going.

At the moment, as the super rugby fires up, it's easy to get distracted and lose interest for neutrals and I'm sure the 6N constituents want to grow their audience, not have it peter out?

But it was compressed for years but Unions and players alike complained and it was extended.

Em............I know what you mean, but shorthand doesn't work up here.  France and Ireland are in the NH too.  

The thing is, once the Six Nations are over, it's forgotten pretty quickly.  Priority is then back with Club/League/European contests with scant regard for the requirements of International....or the inconvenient timing of the season's end.

I'd agree that the 6N can appear very elongated (especially when there is so much still to play for with 4 teams still in the running)  That closeness generates excitement that is then, yes, dissipated by the waiting.  
But at another level, for some clubs, it's a genuine two week opportunity to try out players and side combinations in League games that would never get a look in if only one week was used up by International call ups.  It's a time when lesser club players feel they have a shot at taking or re-taking a shirt number.

But France and Ireland don't participate in British club competitions.

GloriousEmpire wrote:But France and Ireland don't participate in British club competitions.

What's the "British" competitions you speak of? And don't Irish and French players play in the 6N, and don't they then send sides down south too in the Summer as part of a NH collective?

GE wrote:as the super rugby fires up, it's easy to get distracted and lose interest for neutrals

True. How very true.

Ask your average Brit what Super Rugby is and you'd likely be met with a look akin to a beached haddock.

For most Brits, Super Rugby reaches precisely nil on the scale of interest.

I don't know - there's an avid thread running right now concerning the blues v crusaders and another about some stunning tries. They've collected almost as many responses in the last two weeks as have the 6n threads.

Wouldn't say people who post on a rugby forum are representative of the general public even if that were true. Awareness of Super Rugby is limited to the more devoted rugby anoraks whilst the Six Nations attracts many people who don't really have an interest in the sport for the rest of the year.

Did you just call antipodeans and South Africans "anoraks"?

Allow me to elaborate then; "Awareness of Super Rugby in the UK and Ireland is limited to the more devoted rugby anoraks and SA/NZ/AUS expat population"

Dunno I know quite a few French, Italians, Samoans, and Japanese in the uk who follow it.

I wouldn't call them anoraks either.

On balance its a good thing. It allows teams to field their best sides up to a point by giving a bit longer time for minor niggles to heal.

This would for instance allow British club competitions to finish a week earlier, allowing NH sides to take full strength sqauds to the SH rather than always bringing a weakened side down for parts of the tour.

I think you'll find that it was your wonderful rugby union that insisted on the dates of the first test.....

I don't know - there's an avid thread running right now concerning the blues v crusaders and another about some stunning tries. They've collected almost as many responses in the last two weeks as have the 6n threads.

More to do with the disbelief in the appalling defences...in the SH's self proclaimed best tournament in the world.

Where can I watch it? Sky?

Back to the OP - they split it so I can take the wife to Ikea and build up beer points for the following weekend. Can you imagine it otherwise?

I don't mind the breaks. If it was on every week people might take it for granted not to mention you have girlfriends and wives complaining!   

GeordieFalcon wrote:

This would for instance allow British club competitions to finish a week earlier, allowing NH sides to take full strength sqauds to the SH rather than always bringing a weakened side down for parts of the tour.

I think you'll find that it was your wonderful rugby union that insisted on the dates of the first test.....

I don't know - there's an avid thread running right now concerning the blues v crusaders and another about some stunning tries. They've collected almost as many responses in the last two weeks as have the 6n threads.

More to do with the disbelief in the appalling defences...in the SH's self proclaimed best tournament in the world.

Mate we've already debunked that argument on both of the threads.

Notch wrote:Wouldn't say people who post on a rugby forum are representative of the general public even if that were true. Awareness of Super Rugby is limited to the more devoted rugby anoraks whilst the Six Nations attracts many people who don't really have an interest in the sport for the rest of the year.

Although am not too sure what Anoraks mean, I agree with the above. Most people only experience of rugby is the 6N followed by the RWC and AIs. SR, 4N and even HC is somehow for the real rugby fans out there. Most people who fill the stade de france hardly support a club so why would they wake up early in the morning to watch super rugby?

As for the OP question, I agree that one break is enough while it wont matter on the club calendar as you play during those breaks anyway.

GloriousEmpire wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

This would for instance allow British club competitions to finish a week earlier, allowing NH sides to take full strength sqauds to the SH rather than always bringing a weakened side down for parts of the tour.

I think you'll find that it was your wonderful rugby union that insisted on the dates of the first test.....

I don't know - there's an avid thread running right now concerning the blues v crusaders and another about some stunning tries. They've collected almost as many responses in the last two weeks as have the 6n threads.

More to do with the disbelief in the appalling defences...in the SH's self proclaimed best tournament in the world.

Mate we've already debunked that argument on both of the threads.

Oh have you indeed...I must have missed that one.

whocares wrote:

Notch wrote:Wouldn't say people who post on a rugby forum are representative of the general public even if that were true. Awareness of Super Rugby is limited to the more devoted rugby anoraks whilst the Six Nations attracts many people who don't really have an interest in the sport for the rest of the year.

Although am not too sure what Anoraks mean,  I agree with the above. Most people only experience of rugby is the 6N followed by the RWC and AIs. SR, 4N and even HC is somehow for the real rugby fans out there. Most people who fill the stade de france hardly support a club so why would they wake up early in the morning to watch super rugby?

As for the OP question, I agree that one break is enough while it wont matter on the club calendar as you play during those breaks anyway.

Well I never heard the term anorak used this that context either. So I went to Urban Dictionary and was surprised to find it was a British expression! http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=anorak
I had always used the term as a pull over zip-up jacket or shell.

I think in the major Rugby nation in Europe, the priority with fans are almost always the 6 Nations first. Then the Internationals and Club (including the Heineken Cup). I agree the Super Rugby and Rugby Championship are generally reserved in the north to the Rugby enthusiasts. I agree also that one break is enough, though probably needed. Our players are away from their clubs a lot already.

Why have a break at all?

It is five matches, team unity and momentum builds, and there is no fracturing of the tournament.

International players in the NH already have too many games in the season. For that reason I'm a fan of the two rest weekends.

Biltong wrote:Why have a break at all?

It is five matches, team unity and momentum builds, and there is no fracturing of the tournament.

+1

I think it's also a case of being located at the wrong part of the season. Rugby would make great strides in long terms sustainability and growth if they brought all the internationals into one window at the start or end of the season.

For example having the NH club competitions finish by the start of March. Followed by 3 months of internationals. Conversely, having the SH nations playing for three months at the same time, followed by Super rugby.

The advantages less club/country conflict. More flexibility in arranging games and competitions. development of the game internationally. 12 months of genuinely interesting rugby coverage. A true off season, etc, etc.

Biltong wrote:Why have a break at all?

It is five matches, team unity and momentum builds, and there is no fracturing of the tournament.

I have all ways thought they should play all five games straight off. And not have a break.

Not 100% sure on this, but isn't the answer to do with the fact that during the 6 nations, we still have club competition games where as the during the rugby championship the super rugby season has ended.

nathan wrote:Not 100% sure on this, but isn't the answer to do with the fact that during the 6 nations, we still have club competition games where as the during the rugby championship the super rugby season has ended.

nathan.

Just thinking is it any thing to do with TV right's? Amlin , Aviva, etc etc. They all want a share of the tv audience.

majesticimperialman wrote:

nathan wrote:Not 100% sure on this, but isn't the answer to do with the fact that during the 6 nations, we still have club competition games where as the during the rugby championship the super rugby season has ended.

nathan.

Just thinking is it any thing to do with TV right's? Amlin , Aviva, etc etc. They all want a share of the tv audience.

It could well be, We really need a global season, it would sort so many issues out and allows teams to play each other at the same point of their seasons.

nathan wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:

nathan wrote:Not 100% sure on this, but isn't the answer to do with the fact that during the 6 nations, we still have club competition games where as the during the rugby championship the super rugby season has ended.

nathan.

Just thinking is it any thing to do with TV right's? Amlin , Aviva, etc etc. They all want a share of the tv audience.

It could well be, We really need a global season, it would sort so many issues out and allows teams to play each other at the same point of their seasons.

Isn't part of the issue, the timing of the 6 nations. My understanding was that the current window has the advantage in that it's not competing with football finals and some football internationals. I.e. it generates more cash than alternate times. at the same time it's in the middle of the club season. They don't want their sides to be idle.

blackcanelion wrote:I think it's also a case of being located at the wrong part of the season. Rugby would make great strides in long terms sustainability and growth if they brought all the internationals into one window at the start or end of the season.

For example having the NH club competitions finish by the start of March. Followed by 3 months of internationals. Conversely, having the SH nations playing for three months at the same time, followed by Super rugby.

The advantages less club/country conflict. More flexibility in arranging games and competitions. development of the game internationally. 12 months of genuinely interesting rugby coverage. A true off season, etc, etc.

That is so true and so obvious that it clearly impossible to do!
Right now the NH season roughly looks like this:
September - October:  Club season + Heineken Cup
November:  November internationals
December - January:  Club season + Heineken Cup
February - March:  Six Nations
April - May:  Club season + Heineken Cup
June:  June Internationals
July:  Post-season surgeries
August:  Pre-season training
To make it worse, there are some club competitions during the Internationals, which devalue the club competitions.  
What a mess. mate. And no wonder our players are all playing half-broken. Killing the golden goose.

I with you. I think they had a chance in '96 to sort things out.

Same down here.

I like the more structured format. The clubs could run 7's competitions during the international window. It'd generate more $$ as well.

Biltong wrote:Why have a break at all?

It is five matches, team unity and momentum builds, and there is no fracturing of the tournament.

Agreed 100%

Good idea.
Your SH season just became worse with the recent change to the Super Rugby season.
The need for money to drive the growth of the sport (a necessity, I am afraid) is making the seasons longer and killing our players.

Have to agree with you. Really interesting discussions with coaches re super 15 on sports radio in NZ lately.

In essence:
The players and coaches don't want more NZ derbies. The games are to hard and the players familiar. They'd rather play the Aussies or Saffers.
They want a shorter season. Even a week makes a big difference. Wayne Smith wants to start in March.

Steve Tew was interesting. Sounds like they are looking to position super rugby in a wider format and bring in new markets.

A bit of a clash really. Slightly off topic I know.

Dunno I think 5 tests in a row is a bit of an ask. I'd probably just take one week off in the middle somewhere

blackcanelion wrote:Have to agree with you. Really interesting discussions with coaches re super 15 on sports radio in NZ lately.

In essence:
The players and coaches don't want more NZ derbies. The games are to hard and the players familiar. They'd rather play the Aussies or Saffers.
They want a shorter season. Even a week makes a big difference. Wayne Smith wants to start in March.

Steve Tew was interesting. Sounds like they are looking to position super rugby in a wider format and bring in new markets.

A bit of a clash really. Slightly off topic I know.

This global market thing is a problem in my view.

How are they going to make it work?

If you go for a conference in NZ, SA, OZ and the Americas you will have four time zones. Plus you won't be able to have the teams travel to all four destinations, I have also seen they are talking about Japan, which would give you 5 destinations and time zones.

Who is going to watch which games? The Aussies are already saying they don't watch SA based games.

Then if you have 4 or five conferences only playing each other you are going t o have more derbies, or if they travel with less derbies you will see Super rugby dominate the calendar even more than now.

You also take the super out of super rugby, because then it is not about playing the best teams, just participation for the sake of revenue.

Nothing makes sense.

Well can I just throw in the opposite view just to add balance.

The 5 nations was always played over 9/10 weeks. An international game 1 weekend followed by club games followed by international followed by club games. When it was 5, as there was an odd number every international weekend 1 team missed out so may go a month without a game.

The 7 week window came in I believe with the 6 nations as otherwise it would stretch over too long a period.

This in my opinion generally allowed each team to get their best team on the field due to rests if they were injured but also kept alive the club rugby during that time. Welsh cup game was usually in the first fallow weekend.

The build up and anticipation because it was 2 weeks to a game used to drive me insane.

Sometimes it feels at the moment that by the time you get to the end of the tournament it is a case of last man standing gets a game.

I would prefer just one break however, Ireland with traditionally a smaller player base probably benefits most from the breaks.

Agree totally with the OP. There's no need for 2 breaks.

I think the stop start nature of the tournaments up here, including the Heino, hinders the NH teams in the RWC too as they aren't a physically or mentally equipped to play in such a condensed competition with sustained intensity and pressure over successive weekends as their SH counterparts.

The Irish cheat during the breaks which always gives us an edge.

SecretFly wrote:The Irish cheat during the breaks which always gives us an edge.

This is true.

Even if there was a game every weekend the Irish would find some way of cheating. They would get up in the middle of the night if necessary

SecretFly wrote:The Irish cheat during the breaks which always gives us an edge.

You doctor the pitches on the off weekend?

Cyril wrote:

SecretFly wrote:The Irish cheat during the breaks which always gives us an edge.

This is true.

Even if there was a game every weekend the Irish would find some way of cheating. They would get up in the middle of the night if necessary

Its engrained in English culture to cheat. The rugby team is no different. At times they just arent very good at it though.

Some high profile English cheats:

Nasty Nick Bateman - big brother cheat
Charles Ingram - Who wants to be a millionaire cheat
David Beckham - cheated on wife
Tom Williams & Dean Richards - bloodgate cheats
Neil Back - hand of back cheat
Johnny Wilkinson - Link
Dwain Chambers - drug cheat (one of the few to be caught)

Biltong wrote:

SecretFly wrote:The Irish cheat during the breaks which always gives us an edge.

You doctor the pitches on the off weekend?

Well we tried to doctor the pitch for the Scotland V England game. That didn't work out too well.... and the ten billion nematodes were paid off but told they can f**k off for the rest of the season.

Plan B is paying Woodward and McGeechan to over-sell their boys. That one is working a treat so far.... but the Wales game will decide whether it's worked.

GloriousEmpire wrote:I can understand and empathise with a break in the six nations, at the "half way" point. But splitting 5 games over 7 week ends just takes all the momentum out of the tournament for me.

Given that the competition is so compressed geographically, I don't see the need for two rest weekends.  Contrast this to the RC or RWC where the schedule is much tighter.

We could reduce the length of the season by playing over 6 week-ends. This would for instance allow British club competitions to finish a week earlier, allowing NH sides to take full strength sqauds to the SH rather than always bringing a weakened side down for parts of the tour.

You could even stagger the rest week so we get teams resting on alternate weekends, just to try and keep the interest going.

At the moment, as the super rugby fires up, it's easy to get distracted and lose interest for neutrals and I'm sure the 6N constituents want to grow their audience, not have it peter out?

Why does geographically compressed mean players don't need rest weekends?

Granted travelling has an impact... but I think both competitions have those breaks because of the rugby, not the travelling required.

We used to have rest weekends in the RC, in fact teams had loads of wks off in the 3 team tournament due to the scheduling of the matches... and NZ and AUS wouldn't need to travel that much... once or twice to SA in a tour and then the rest in NZ or AUS (so like a 6N then).

Injuries in rugby are massive. If you want 5 wknds of matches then prepare to see more players injured and the teams unable to field their first XVs as much (which hardly ever happens anyhow)

GunsGerms wrote:

Cyril wrote:

SecretFly wrote:The Irish cheat during the breaks which always gives us an edge.

This is true.

Even if there was a game every weekend the Irish would find some way of cheating. They would get up in the middle of the night if necessary

Its engrained in English culture to cheat. The rugby team is no different. At times they just arent very good at it though.

Some high profile English cheats:

Nasty Nick Bateman - big brother cheat
Charles Ingram - Who wants to be a millionaire cheat
David Beckham - cheated on wife
Tom Williams & Dean Richards - bloodgate cheats
Neil Back - hand of back cheat
Johnny Wilkinson - Link
Dwain Chambers - drug cheat (one of the few to be caught)

Guns, sometimes I think you take this all a bit too seriously  

Anyway, I would like it to be consecutive weekends.

GunsGerms wrote:

Cyril wrote:

SecretFly wrote:The Irish cheat during the breaks which always gives us an edge.

This is true.

Even if there was a game every weekend the Irish would find some way of cheating. They would get up in the middle of the night if necessary

Its engrained in English culture to cheat. The rugby team is no different. At times they just arent very good at it though.

Some high profile English cheats:

Nasty Nick Bateman - big brother cheat
Charles Ingram - Who wants to be a millionaire cheat
David Beckham - cheated on wife
Tom Williams & Dean Richards - bloodgate cheats
Neil Back - hand of back cheat
Johnny Wilkinson - Link
Dwain Chambers - drug cheat (one of the few to be caught)

Guns - you guys are just the same, those 3 wishes I got after catching that leprechaun.. they were duds.

That wasn't a Leprechaun you caught...  that was a decoy!  The country is full of them.  Of course you only get dud wishes from those guys, that's the idea.

SecretFly wrote:That wasn't a Leprechaun you caught...  that was a decoy!  The country is full of them.  Of course you only get dud wishes from those guys, that's the idea.

But the lucky heather is true right.... bought a couple of bushels from an old crone a while back. Only cost me a couple of grand and she promised me it would bring me my fortune... any day yet!!!! Fingers crossed

Yeah..those are true... you're guaranteed to hit lucky there...in this life or the next few.
It's hard to work out when because of the dynamics of the heather stock-market prices.

Cyril wrote:
Its engrained in English culture to cheat. The rugby team is no different. At times they just arent very good at it though.

Some high profile English cheats:

Nasty Nick Bateman - big brother cheat
Charles Ingram - Who wants to be a millionaire cheat
David Beckham - cheated on wife
Tom Williams & Dean Richards - bloodgate cheats
Neil Back - hand of back cheat
Johnny Wilkinson - Link
Dwain Chambers - drug cheat (one of the few to be caught)

Guns, sometimes I think you take this all a bit too seriously  

Anyway, I would like it to be consecutive weekends.[/quote]

It was tongue in cheek. Surely some of the examples would have made that obvious. Nick Batemen? Anyway on a serious note there does seem to be a culture of seeing what you can get away with in professional sport in England.