Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread Part 'x'

[mystiroakey]

First topic message reminder :

Oh you are SAF? or a Glazier?

[Guest]

Cardiff 3-1 Fulham - Reither OG

Fulham as good as gone now?

Pretty much. Woodrow up front instead of Bent, clueless. Magath brought in because of his name & Khan thought, 'oh yeah, he's sounds good'. Embarrassing ownership. Magath knows nothing about English football or the players at the club. Rene knew the EPL & the requirements to get & grind points out of fixtures, Old Trafford perfect example. Fulham heading in one direction.....

[Fernando]

Chelsea
Cech; Ivanovic, Cahill, Terry (c), Azpilicueta; Matic, Lampard; Ramires, Hazard, Schurrle; Torres

subs are: Schwarzer, Kalas, Mikel, Oscar, Willian, Ba and Eto'o.

Spuds:
Lloris; Naughton, Dawson, Kaboul, Vertonghen; Bentaleb, Sandro; Walker, Lennon, Sigurðsson, Adebayor

Subs are: Friedel, Fryers, Chadli, Paulinho, Townsend, Kane, Soldado

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Good day for us really. Palace lost, Norwich didnt pick up the points they needed, good point for Stoke and a bad one for the Canaries. WBA lost convincingly, so we've got 6 points on 17th and 18th.

I dont expect us to win for a few games, but the amount of teams down there means its continuously difficult for a few teams to pick up big wins and swing the table.

[Guest]

I think if we go to the Cottage next weekend & beat them, then that's it for Fulham. WBA are a mess on & off the field. Another foreign manager brought in who has no understanding of the EPL or the players strengths & weaknesses. Cardiff have won today, however, they are still a dreadful team & just emphasises how bad Fulham are. Norwich will grind out the results & stay safe, only because there are worse sides. Sunderland will survive, too good a team & spirit & have many games in hand.

I think it's between Palace & WBA for that 18th place with Cardiff & Fulham gone.

[Champagne_Socialist]

Even in La Liga he'd get subbed every game. And he got a winter break.

Needs strength and fitness training after the WC

Ozil got 27 goals/81 assists in 157 games for Real Madrid. That was the most assists by any player in Europe in the last 5 years. He is also top of the assists table for Arsenal this season and 4th for the most assist in the EPL this season despite what people are saying is a poor year for him.

If being top of Arsenal's assists and 4th for assists in the EPL is a poor year imagine what he is like when he is having a good year. Ozil is quality.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Do you even watch football or do you live on opta stats?

[Duty281]

Today was Ozil's first good game for weeks, or maybe months. Been a while, either way.

[Champagne_Socialist]

Today was Ozil's first good game for weeks, or maybe months. Been a while, either way.

But the season is made up of 1 year, having a quiet month does not suddenly mean that he has had a poor season, just means he had a poor section of the season but overall he has had a very good first season.

Top of the assists table for Arsenal and 4th for assists in the epl highlights how big of an impact he has had at Arsenal.

My guess is that Ozil will break the 20 assist mark for Arsenal this season and will be close to getting 10/12 goals this season, very good stats for any player but even more impressive for a player in his 1st season in the EPL

[Hammersmith harrier]

Today was Ozil's first good game for weeks, or maybe months. Been a while, either way.

Apparently football is played on paper nowadays, the eye ball test means nothing compared to a couple of statistics.

As Mark Twain used to say 'There are three kinds of lies: Lies, damned lies and statistics'.

[Champagne_Socialist]

I think if we go to the Cottage next weekend & beat them, then that's it for Fulham. WBA are a mess on & off the field. Another foreign manager brought in who has no understanding of the EPL or the players strengths & weaknesses. Cardiff have won today, however, they are still a dreadful team & just emphasises how bad Fulham are. Norwich will grind out the results & stay safe, only because there are worse sides. Sunderland will survive, too good a team & spirit & have many games in hand.

I think it's between Palace & WBA for that 18th place with Cardiff & Fulham gone.

I reckon Palace will stay up and Fulham, WBA and Cardiff will go down.

[Hammersmith harrier]

John lets get real here mate- he played in the centre for England and was the worst player on the pitch.

The last united game again he was awful..

He has had plenty of good games for united. But there was nothing 'again' to note. He has been in bad shape recently. If he had a good game today that was him improving on recent not just bad performances but woefully bad perfomrances

He made loads of saving tackles in that game, it's almost as if people overlook the positional deficiency of Cahill sometimes.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Today was Ozil's first good game for weeks, or maybe months. Been a while, either way.

But the season is made up of 1 year, having a quiet month does not suddenly mean that he has had a poor season, just means he had a poor section of the season but overall he has had a very good first season.

Top of the assists table for Arsenal and 4th for assists in the epl highlights how big of an impact he has had at Arsenal.

My guess is that Ozil will break the 20 assist mark for Arsenal this season and will be close to getting 10/12 goals this season, very good stats for any player but even more impressive for a player in his 1st season in the EPL

Form may be temporary, class may be permanent, but mismanaging a squad will cost you the title

[Dolphin Ziggler]

We can all agree on one thing:

Spurs =   

[Duty281]

---

Today was Ozil's first good game for weeks, or maybe months. Been a while, either way.

Apparently football is played on paper nowadays, the eye ball test means nothing compared to a couple of statistics.

As Mark Twain used to say 'There are three kinds of lies: Lies, damned lies and statistics'.

Well yes you clearly have to take statistics with a pinch of salt.

For example, Everton's solitary goal today was scored by Lukaku with the assist coming from Mirallas.

But it was Barkley, with the surging run and expert cross, who did most of the work for the goal. Does he get credited in either the assist or goals column? No. But Mirallas does for a scuffed shot that luckily fell to Lukaku? Yes. And does Lukaku get credited for scoring from a couple of yards out in an open goal? Yes.

Stats-wise, Barkley doesn't get any credit. For the visual test, what the spectator can see, he does receive credit.

[Champagne_Socialist]

---

Well yes you clearly have to take statistics with a pinch of salt.

For example, Everton's solitary goal today was scored by Lukaku with the assist coming from Mirallas.

But it was Barkley, with the surging run and expert cross, who did most of the work for the goal. Does he get credited in either the assist or goals column? No. But Mirallas does for a scuffed shot that luckily fell to Lukaku? Yes. And does Lukaku get credited for scoring from a couple of yards out in an open goal? Yes.

Stats-wise, Barkley doesn't get any credit. For the visual test, what the spectator can see, he does receive credit.

There are stats for everything, The Barkley run will come under the successful dribbing stat and successful crosses into the box/ successful passes stats.

Flamini has very few goals/assists this year but you would not judge him on those stats, you would judge him on his successful tackles stats and passes completed stats, just like you would not judge Hazard on his successful tackles stats.

[Hammersmith harrier]

You wouldn't judge anyone by using stats, they mean nothing without context, losing form at this point of the season isn't the sign of a great player.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

HAHAHAHAHA KYLE WALKER

[Champagne_Socialist]

HAHAHAHAHA KYLE WALKER

And he is meant to be England's 1st choice at RB for the WC this year....

[CFCNick]

Love how Kyle Walker put his hands up as well like it wasn't him. He could of knocked it to Vertonghen to smash up field.

Pleasant Saturday evening viewing   

[mystiroakey]

John lets get real here mate- he played in the centre for England and was the worst player on the pitch.

The last united game again he was awful..

He has had plenty of good games for united. But there was nothing 'again' to note. He has been in bad shape recently. If he had a good game today that was him improving on recent not just bad performances but woefully bad perfomrances

He made loads of saving tackles in that game, it's almost as if people overlook the positional deficiency of Cahill sometimes.

we can blame then both for not working as a unit- however it was his distribution that also worried me- at least when cahill has the ball he finds a team mate!

But look not getting down on smalling as rubbish- just that that game wasn't good..

Cahill doesnt look the same player without terry, and smalling also wont look as good without some one else more experienced..

Those two together isnt my england fit.

I do however believe give it 2 or so years- jones and smalling may be a good united and england partnership

[CFCNick]

#GlenJohnsonForWC2014

[Dolphin Ziggler]

“Our chances are worse than before" - Felix Magath

No flocking sheet pal.

[Champagne_Socialist]

#GlenJohnsonForWC2014

What about Carl Jenkinson???

[Dolphin Ziggler]

#GlenJohnsonForWC2014

What about Carl Jenkinson???

What about no?

[Fernando]

He isn't good enough CS.

Im all for Phil Jones at RB tbh

Spurs are always a joke when play Chelsea away from home. Just roll over what is it now 19 years and counting for a win there?

[Hammersmith harrier]

Depends what you want from a right back really, if you want a bit more defensive stability then it's either Jones or Smalling but for an attacking threat it's got to be Johnson. I'll say it but we've never adequately replaced Neville, about as rock solid a full back as there was.

[Champagne_Socialist]

He isn't good enough CS.

Im all for Phil Jones at RB tbh

Spurs are always a joke when play Chelsea away from home. Just roll over what is it now 19 years and counting for a win there?

I reckon he will be the future england RB, he has only just turned 22 and will be the number 1 RB when Sagna leaves at the end of next season (my guess).

[Dolphin Ziggler]

If we were going outside shots I'd have Lowton ahead of Jenkinson

[Fernando]

He isn't good enough CS.

Im all for Phil Jones at RB tbh

Spurs are always a joke when play Chelsea away from home. Just roll over what is it now 19 years and counting for a win there?

I reckon he will be the future england RB, he has only just turned 22 and will be the number 1 RB when Sagna leaves at the end of next season (my guess).

I suspect Bellerin will jump ahead of Jenkinson tbh and Wenger been looking at RB's for a while now
PS Sagna leaves end of this season.

[mystiroakey]

Jones could do it- But I think he will nail down the CB role

[Champagne_Socialist]

If we were going outside shots I'd have Lowton ahead of Jenkinson

top 4 bias will work against him.

[Champagne_Socialist]

He isn't good enough CS.

Im all for Phil Jones at RB tbh

Spurs are always a joke when play Chelsea away from home. Just roll over what is it now 19 years and counting for a win there?

I reckon he will be the future england RB, he has only just turned 22 and will be the number 1 RB when Sagna leaves at the end of next season (my guess).

I suspect Bellerin will jump ahead of Jenkinson tbh and Wenger been looking at RB's for a while now
PS Sagna leaves end of this season.

I hope sagna stays he has been great this season.

[Duty281]

HAHAHAHAHA KYLE WALKER

And he is meant to be England's 1st choice at RB for the WC this year....

I thought that was Glen Johnson?

Walker might not even make the plane since Smalling can cover two positions, and Jones a few.

[Duty281]

You wouldn't judge anyone by using stats, they mean nothing without context, losing form at this point of the season isn't the sign of a great player.

Exactly this.

[Hammersmith harrier]

You wouldn't judge anyone by using stats, they mean nothing without context, losing form at this point of the season isn't the sign of a great player.

Exactly this.

Using stats Rooney is the second best all around attacking player in the league with his 12 assists and 10 goals this season, the only other player in double figures for both is Suarez. That would of course ignore the splendid form that Hazard has been in this season.

[mystiroakey]

Glen johnson all the way.

not bad defender and good going forward. and a fit big lad..

Not the best player in the world- but the best option we have especially as we will have a few other Liverpool players playing

[Duty281]

Glen johnson all the way.

not bad defender and good going forward. and a fit big lad..

Not the best player in the world- but the best option we have especially as we will have a few other Liverpool players playing

Very underrated defender. Fantastic for England at Euro 2012. Has made huge strides ability-wise since the World Cup in South Africa four years ago.

[mystiroakey]

Well to be fair Rooney has been right up there over the whole season Harrier. No question. But then so has hazard

but actually Sturidge has had 18 goals and 7 assists pipping Rooney with 25 in total

[Duty281]

You wouldn't judge anyone by using stats, they mean nothing without context, losing form at this point of the season isn't the sign of a great player.

Exactly this.

Using stats Rooney is the second best all around attacking player in the league with his 12 assists and 10 goals this season, the only other player in double figures for both is Suarez. That would of course ignore the splendid form that Hazard has been in this season.

Rickie Lambert has made as many PL assists this season as Hazard and Silva.

Ergo, Lambert is as good as those two!

[Champagne_Socialist]

Exactly this.

exactly what? that you don't trust stats? EVERYTHING is a stat. how many assists, how many successful passes, how many successful dribbles, how many successful tackles, how many successful catches, how many shots on target etc etc

It is up to you to look at those stats and decide who has played the best eg who has been the better player for Arsenal, Giroud or Flamini? Giroud's main stats are goals scored and assists whilst flamini's main stats are successful tackles and successful passes.

Now you are saying that stats don't tell everything because a goal from 5 yards out counts as 1 goal just the same as a goal from 30 yards out counts as 1 goal in the goals scored stats data. But there will be detailed stats that highlight how many goals have been scored from outside the area, or with the head, or with the weaker foot etc etc. Everything falls into a stat and thus stats are very accurate in determining how well a player is playing.

Ozil was bought for his assists as that is his main weapon basically along with his very high successful passing completion. So if Ozil finishes the season as the top assists player in the EPL then of course that stat is very important, we would then look at other stats such as his passing stats and goals scored stats to determine in a more detailed manner if he has been a success.

[Hammersmith harrier]

A load more drivel from somebody who has never watched a game in his life.

[Champagne_Socialist]

This post was made by Hammersmith harrier who is currently on your ignore list.

[mystiroakey]

stats are important i agree- but some players arnt about stats(assists and goals).. anyway check out hazards key passes- he will be right up there. People just dont seem to think its a worthy stat- I disagree and it would put hazard back up there in the running based on stats.

Hazard is right up there in top 4 based on this analysis which uses various stats

http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/3853/Stages/7794/PlayerStatistics/England-Premier-League-2013-2014

and as you can see the players around him are also pretty good so it doesnt look like a bad system

Its just if we going to base things on stats - we need all the stats and we need to effectively interpret them

[Hammersmith harrier]

stats are important i agree- but some players arnt about stats(assists and goals).. anyway check out hazards key passes- he will be right up there. People just dont seem to think its a worthy stat- I disagree and it would put hazard back up there in the running based on stats.

Hazard is right up there in top 4 based on this analysis which uses various stats

http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/3853/Stages/7794/PlayerStatistics/England-Premier-League-2013-2014

and as you can see the players around him are also pretty good so it doesnt look like a bad system

Its just if we going to base things on stats - we need all the stats and we need to effectively interpret them

I don't think stats tell us anything you can't see with your own eyes Mysti, I can see when Rooney has had a direct influence on a goal, I don't need a stat to tell me that. The stats don't tell me that it was the interplay between Rooney and Mata that put Rafael into the perfect position to whip in the cross for the second goal.

[Hammersmith harrier]

This post was made by Hammersmith harrier who is currently on your ignore list.

Are you really 26 because i've lost count of how many times you've posted that now.

[Champagne_Socialist]

stats are important i agree- but some players arnt about stats(assists and goals).. anyway check out hazards key passes- he will be right up there. People just dont seem to think its a worthy stat- I disagree and it would put hazard back up there in the running based on stats.

Hazard is right up there in top 4 on passing based on this analysis.

http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/3853/Stages/7794/PlayerStatistics/England-Premier-League-2013-2014

and as you can see the players around him are also pretty good so it doesnt look like a bad system

Its just if we going to base things on stats - we need all the stats and we need to effectively interpret them

This is my point, certain players are better at certain things so they will be better at certain stats like hazard will be right up there with successful dribbling stats and high succssful passing stats and probably high key passing stats.

Hazard is a dangerman and stats show just how dangerous he is. But obviously people need to look at more stats than just goals and assists, they need to look at passing stats, dribbling stats, dribbling past your opponent stat, the pass that leads to the assist etc

A stat that I think is important is the pass that leads to the assist and many footballers actually have it in their contracts that they get a bonus for every pass that leads to the assist eg barkley passed to mirales who 'passed' to lukaku who scored so barkley made a pass that led to an assist..

[mystiroakey]

harrier

I am a stat man- but then that doesn't override what i see either. The point is though we dont watch every minute of every game they play. Most of us watch every live PL game on TV and most of watch the highlights- But we are only watching 10% of the footy at most

[GSC]

Fulham slide further towards the trap door. They've looked dead and buried before but it'd take a small miracle at this point.

Cardiff get some momentum but you wouldn't want to bet on them staying up.

Probably those 2 and 1 from West Brom, Norwich, Sunderland and Palace

[mystiroakey]

by the way hazard is third in the Pl on Key passes, and top in dribbling past players(3.7 per game- second is suraez on 2.8)


We can allways find a stat to prove what we see, therefore when we dont see it - we can still judge them based on using the stats effectively

[Duty281]

Exactly this.

exactly what? that you don't trust stats? EVERYTHING is a stat. how many assists, how many successful passes, how many successful dribbles, how many successful tackles, how many successful catches, how many shots on target etc etc

It is up to you to look at those stats and decide who has played the best eg who has been the better player for Arsenal, Giroud or Flamini? Giroud's main stats are goals scored and assists whilst flamini's main stats are successful tackles and successful passes.

Now you are saying that stats don't tell everything because a goal from 5 yards out counts as 1 goal just the same as a goal from 30 yards out counts as 1 goal in the goals scored stats data. But there will be detailed stats that highlight how many goals have been scored from outside the area, or with the head, or with the weaker foot etc etc. Everything falls into a stat and thus stats are very accurate in determining how well a player is playing.

Ozil was bought for his assists as that is his main weapon basically along with his very high successful passing completion. So if Ozil finishes the season as the top assists player in the EPL then of course that stat is very important, we would then look at other stats such as his passing stats and goals scored stats to determine in a more detailed manner if he has been a success.

I'll use my own eyes, thanks, to judge whether or not a player is good enough or not good enough. It's what I usually do, not look at some percentage on passing accuracy or tackling success.

Stats are nothing without context.

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