Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread Part 'x'

by mystiroakey Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:38 pm

First topic message reminder :

Oh you are SAF? or a Glazier?
Wink

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:38 pm

Football has never and will never be judged on a goddamn freakin stat sheet for gods sake

by CFCNick Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:38 pm

GSC wrote:
CFCNick wrote:
GSC wrote:Can someone ban the lot of you. Same people bickering over the same topic over and over.

Agree to disagree and be done with it, it's tiresome and going nowhere.

Go back to the Championship section then

Still more populated than ice hockey

I know

by Hammersmith harrier Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:40 pm

It's what happens when you're a discographer working with stats, dates and numbers all day, you come to appreciate they mean little without context.

by Duty281 Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:42 pm

Olly wrote:Football has never and will never be judged on a goddamn freakin stat sheet for gods sake

It would be incredibly boring if it was.

by Champagne_Socialist Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:46 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Olly wrote:Football has never and will never be judged on a goddamn freakin stat sheet for gods sake

It would be incredibly boring if it was.

Well if we don't use stats we are just left with opinions and my opinion differs to yours so there will be no correct answer. Stats are there to back up opionions.

by Mike Selig Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:48 pm

I think a few on here are guilty of playing the poster rather than the post.

Whilst I haven't always agreed with CS and/or socal, some of their points have IMO been reasonable.

Ozil's early season form was sparkling. That in itself made a huge difference to an Arsenal side who needed to believe they could challenge for titles once again. Certainly his form has dropped off, but he has had IMO a very good season so far.

Much as I like Oscar, his season has followed a similar pattern without IMO quite hitting the heights Ozil did early on, and his slump has been at least as marked, if not more.

And I'm sorry but some of the names being floated around? Lallana is a fine young talent certainly, but even his mum would struggle to put him in the same bracket as Ozil currently. Coutinho? I mean come on...

Hazard though has had a tremendous season so far (if your definition of world class excludes his season to date, then your definition is certainly wrong); whilst I personally would class him as a winger I don't think it right to suggest that his role is far enough removed from Ozil's that comparison is impossible - in today's game the "pre-front 3" have similar roles and often interchange positions.

However apart from Hazard are there any creators (for want of a better word) in the EPL having better seasons than Ozil? Please don't say Mata or Coutinho, because that's plainly nonsense. In Europe? Iniesta probably, and maybe Gotze.

by Duty281 Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:49 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Olly wrote:Football has never and will never be judged on a goddamn freakin stat sheet for gods sake

It would be incredibly boring if it was.

Well if we don't use stats we are just left with opinions and my opinion differs to yours so there will be no correct answer. Stats are there to back up opionions.

There is never a correct answer in football - the game is not black and white.

by socal1976 Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:53 pm

Mike Selig wrote:I think a few on here are guilty of playing the poster rather than the post.

Whilst I haven't always agreed with CS and/or socal, some of their points have IMO been reasonable.

Ozil's early season form was sparkling. That in itself made a huge difference to an Arsenal side who needed to believe they could challenge for titles once again. Certainly his form has dropped off, but he has had IMO a very good season so far.

Much as I like Oscar, his season has followed a similar pattern without IMO quite hitting the heights Ozil did early on, and his slump has been at least as marked, if not more.

And I'm sorry but some of the names being floated around? Lallana is a fine young talent certainly, but even his mum would struggle to put him in the same bracket as Ozil currently. Coutinho? I mean come on...

Hazard though has had a tremendous season so far (if your definition of world class excludes his season to date, then your definition is certainly wrong); whilst I personally would class him as a winger I don't think it right to suggest that his role is far enough removed from Ozil's that comparison is impossible - in today's game the "pre-front 3" have similar roles and often interchange positions.

However apart from Hazard are there any creators (for want of a better word) in the EPL having better seasons than Ozil? Please don't say Mata or Coutinho, because that's plainly nonsense. In Europe? Iniesta probably, and maybe Gotze.

Great post. The fact is that if you don't want to use stats then lets look at the belief and the improvement Ozil has brought to the club that has bought him. Mata was purchased for about the same money as Ozil, he has been poor both for Chelsea and for United. I can even concede that this isn't Ozil finest campaign, but to say that you would rather have lallana and couthino over Ozil is pretty much insane. The guy has had a galvanizing affect on his club. And I can say without question that if we do win the cup with the performances he has given, considering this is his first year as a gunner fan I will deem his season to be a success.

by It Must Be Love Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:20 am

Agree with the sentiment here that Ozil has had an influence on Arsenal beyond his performance... in many ways simply being such a big signing helped galvanise the club, and a catalyst for their success early on.

In terms of actual performance, for me he has been pretty inconsistent, and has got worse as the season has progressed. He may be starting a new corner though now, let's see.

by It Must Be Love Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:24 am

I think Arsenal will finish the year 4th in the PL, and should win the FA Cup given that they are significantly better than the teams left there.

My question is this: Do you think without Ozil they would be competing in PL and FA Cup the way they have?
I think one can argue that if Arsenal finish 4th, then the answer is yes.

by socal1976 Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:55 am

Starlight wrote:I think Arsenal will finish the year 4th in the PL, and should win the FA Cup given that they are significantly better than the teams left there.

My question is this: Do you think without Ozil they would be competing in PL and FA Cup the way they have?
I think one can argue that if Arsenal finish 4th, then the answer is yes.

We are 4 points out of the league in early March that is much better than we were. Plus we have had a horrific year in terms of injuries even more so than what Arsenal typically have. If we play well in march against Chelsea and Man City we could be right in there for the league title. All I know is if we win the FA cup and qualify for the CL i will consider the Ozil signing to be a great success in consideration of the performances he has had. A great deal of this Ozil signing depends on how Arsenal finish. World class players lift the sides they are brought on to. People give me stick for the Zidane comparison but Zidane was a player that didn't burn up the stat sheet but his influence on teams was undeniable. You won't find me saying a bad word about Ozil if he leads us to the cup. And he really was instrumental against Liverpool and damn near perfect against Everton. If Arsenal flop the rest of the way it will taint the whole season and Ozil's performance as well.

by kingraf Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:50 am

The Zidane comment gets stick because Zidane is probably the best since Maradona, and so comparing any player to him could lead to you getting burnt at the stake

by socal1976 Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:11 am

kingraf wrote:The Zidane comment gets stick because Zidane is probably the best since Maradona, and so comparing any player to him could lead to you getting burnt at the stake

I didn't say he was as good as Zidane in any way. I was saying that his contribution is more than just the statistics and that he is a player who can influence a team beyond merely goals or assists like Zidane could. Obviously, Zidane is a much better player than Ozil.

by mystiroakey Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:02 am

It was actually Ramsey that really made arsernal a world class team early on. Ozil really added to that. They then lost the former. But then Wilshire came back playing ok. Then ozil went missing but luckily Walcott came back for a few games and was blistering. Then he got injured again. Then ox came back and helped you out with his decent starting form. Now Wilshire is gone. But hey look ozil and ox featured heavily in the last fa cup game. So there is still a great team in arsernal and players that have a good understanding with the more settled players like carzola and flamini.

Giroud is also a great player with a good team behind so barring any more injuries arsernal should deffo get a top 4 and possibly a cup!!!!

And now my fellow 606's I am off for my annual golf trip.

See you soon x

by kingraf Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:08 am

Look, I'm a huge fan of Ozil, and woulda preferred it if we had kept the £50m net, & Ozil.

I'm a bit surprised stats have been completely ignored from the discussion, or treated like irrelevant "by the ways"...while not baseball or cricket, football, too has enough handy stats... I mean I'm sorry, but we are talking about a result-based business, not freaking comparing The Black Album with The Blueprint I. Arsenal rightly get criticised for not having won anything since before Moses parted the Red Sea, but I don't see any non-Arsenal fan defending it by saying, "I don't need statistics to tell me Arsenal have played well over the last 80 years".... Stats aren't the only indicator of a good player, but you won't find too many good players who don't have the stats to back it up

Also - "Suarez is better than Ibra"...
Laugh

I mean...

... no really Laugh

What gave it away? His outstanding record in Holland? or his outstanding record vs The big teams in the EPL?
Maybe it's his ability to have missed 25 games in the last five years to suspension... without one single red card.

by socal1976 Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:28 am

kingraf wrote:Look, I'm a huge fan of Ozil, and woulda preferred it if we had kept the £50m net, & Ozil.

I'm a bit surprised stats have been completely ignored from the discussion, or treated like irrelevant "by the ways"...while not baseball or cricket, football, too has enough handy stats... I mean I'm sorry, but we are talking about a result-based business, not freaking comparing The Black Album with The Blueprint I. Arsenal rightly get criticised for not having won anything since before Moses parted the Red Sea, but I don't see any non-Arsenal fan defending it by saying, "I don't need statistics to tell me Arsenal have played well over the last 80 years".... Stats aren't the only indicator of a good player, but you won't find too many good players who don't have the stats to back it up

Also - "Suarez is better than Ibra"...

I mean... ... no really

What gave it away? His outstanding record in Holland? or his outstanding record vs The big teams in the EPL?
Maybe it's his ability to have missed 25 games in the last five years to suspension... without one single red card.

You should catch up on the thread or read it more carefully KR. The Arsenal fans had loads of stats to prove that Ozil was better than, I am not kidding here Coutinho and Lallana. In fact, if you look at Ozil's stats he has produced more when looking at goals and assists combined than either Mata/Silva/ and Oscar. But somehow the British media isn't crucifying those 3 players as gigantic flops and chokers.

What is so funny about Suarez being better than Ibra. Ibra was a giant flop at Barca and plays in a pretty weak league. He is a world class player but I would rather have Suarez than Ibra. I think Suarez' work rate and pace give him the nod for me over Ibramovich. The guy is averaging a goal a game in the premier league despite missing 6 league matches to suspension. My only problem with Suarez is that when he bit Ivanovic he didn't fully commit and take his ear off. I would have liked to see Suarez eat Ivanovic's liver with some fawa beans and a fine chianti. Ivanovic is a chippy sod who was tugging and pulling him like a drunken teenager pawing his girlfriend on prom night.

by socal1976 Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:30 am

mystiroakey wrote:It was actually Ramsey that really made arsernal a world class team early on. Ozil really added to that. They then lost the former. But then Wilshire came back playing ok. Then ozil went missing but luckily Walcott came back for a few games and was blistering. Then he got injured again. Then ox came back and helped you out with his decent starting form. Now Wilshire is gone. But hey look ozil and ox featured heavily in the last fa cup game. So there is still a great team in arsernal and players that have a good understanding with the more settled players like carzola and flamini.

Giroud is also a great player with a good team behind so barring any more injuries arsernal should deffo get a top 4 and possibly a cup!!!!

And now my fellow 606's I am off for my annual golf trip.

See you soon x

I agree Mysti, all the injuries in ARsenal's attack particularly to Aaron Ramsey has also created some issues not only for the gunners but for Ozil in particular. Ramsey was revelation before his injury, frankly he was he best player of the first couple of months of the season in the entire league. He was doing everything for the team; scoring, assists, tackles, and a motor that wouldn't quit. Enjoy your golfing trip.

by kingraf Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:43 am

Sorry Socal - I don't bite. Suarez is good, but in no way is he as good as Ibrahimovic. Not sure why the Barcelona experiment keeps getting referred to as a flop, though - 22 goals at nearly a goal every second game, and an assist every third one in your debut season is not a flop. He didn't fit in, and as he so succinctly puts it, just kept being brilliant. Suarez probably has the pace on Zlatan, but not sure I buy work rate - Zlatan drops back an awful lot when Edison is with him. Also for all of Suarez superior physical talents, Zlatan has that genius element that can't be bought. Absolute maverick, like Kevin Pietersen, without a phone, or a bad run of from to warrant getting chucked out.

Over and above that - Suarez hasn't played Champs League in what, three seasons? Can't have him above a guy whose banged in 10 already, given his record vs England's better teams. If we go purely by EPL, the entire City attack is best in the world, and would in no way get bullied into submission at home.. or something

by socal1976 Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:53 am

kingraf wrote:Sorry Socal - I don't bite. Suarez is good, but in no way is he as good as Ibrahimovic. Not sure why the Barcelona experiment keeps getting referred to as a flop, though - 22 goals at nearly a goal every second game, and an assist every third one in your debut season is not a flop. He didn't fit in, and as he so succinctly puts it, just kept being brilliant. Suarez probably has the pace on Zlatan, but not sure I buy work rate - Zlatan drops back an awful lot when Edison is with him. Also for all of Suarez superior physical talents, Zlatan has that genius element that can't be bought. Absolute maverick, like Kevin Pietersen, without a phone, or a bad run of from to warrant getting chucked out.

Over and above that - Suarez hasn't played Champs League in what, three seasons? Can't have him above a guy whose banged in 10 already, given his record vs England's better teams. If we go purely by EPL, the entire City attack is best in the world, and would in no way get bullied into submission at home.. or something

You should watch Suarez more often he is constantly on the move and making smart runs. No question Zlatan is a great player. I just would rather have Suarez. Sorry a goal a game in the EPL is more impressive than a goal a game in ligue 1. Do all the defenders in league 1 still train by smoking and drinking a lot of coffee before the match? He banged in most of his goals in the CL against an anemic group. Again I don't want to talk him down too much because I think he is a brilliant talent. I would not trade Suarez for him though. I don't find it laughable in way that someone would rather have Suarez than Ibra. Ibra is a great player, Suarez is a great player; but when it comes down to it I prefer Suarez type forwards to Ibra type forwards. The extra pace and energy does it for me.

by kingraf Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:07 am

In the EPL alone, I'd rather have Kun, quite honestly.

by socal1976 Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:14 am

kingraf wrote:In the EPL alone, I'd rather have Kun, quite honestly.

He had a tough time scoring on a championship side today, great player as well but again I would rather have Suarez.

by kingraf Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:29 am

makes you question the vaunted quality of the EPL when a guy going a goal a game struggles to score against Championship opposition

by socal1976 Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:48 am

kingraf wrote:makes you question the vaunted quality of the EPL when a guy going a goal a game struggles to score against Championship opposition

Yes because there is a lot of doubt as to whether the premier league is better than the Championship, come on Kingraf. Come on now youngster. Lets remember I was drinking whisky and shagging when you were but a twinkle in your daddy's eye. Aguero and Zlatan are great players but if I get to pick my team I want Hannibal the Cannibal in there, when a defender fouls him he doesn't just beat him to a goal he chomps down and takes a piece of him with him. Prison rules doggie.

by CFCNick Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:49 am

kingraf wrote:makes you question the vaunted quality of the EPL when a guy going a goal a game struggles to score against Championship opposition

No it doesn't. It's a one off cup game.

by CFCNick Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:51 am

socal1976 wrote:
kingraf wrote:makes you question the vaunted quality of the EPL when a guy going a goal a game struggles to score against Championship opposition

Yes because there is a lot of doubt as to whether the premier league is better than the Championship, come on Kingraf. Come on now youngster. Lets remember I was drinking whisky and shagging when you were but a twinkle in your daddy's eye. Aguero and Zlatan are great players but if I get to pick my team I want Hannibal the Cannibal in there, when a defender fouls him he doesn't just beat him to a goal he chomps down and takes a piece of him with him. Prison rules doggie.

Who the Frak is Hannibal the cannibal?

by socal1976 Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:01 am

CFCNick wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
kingraf wrote:makes you question the vaunted quality of the EPL when a guy going a goal a game struggles to score against Championship opposition

Yes because there is a lot of doubt as to whether the premier league is better than the Championship, come on Kingraf. Come on now youngster. Lets remember I was drinking whisky and shagging when you were but a twinkle in your daddy's eye. Aguero and Zlatan are great players but if I get to pick my team I want Hannibal the Cannibal in there, when a defender fouls him he doesn't just beat him to a goal he chomps down and takes a piece of him with him. Prison rules doggie.

Who the Frak is Hannibal the cannibal?

Suarez of course, now I just have inherent respect for a man who scores goals and then is willing to feast on his opposition raw, especially when that opposition is the gianormous priick that is Ivanovic. Hell even Hannibal needed some seasoning, some nice wine or something before he ate his opposition. Suarez eats them raw like sashimi with no wasabi, soy, or garnish.

by CFCNick Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:06 am

Ivanovic isn't a Tinkywinky. You'd bite your arm off to have at Arsenal.

by socal1976 Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:12 am

Ivanovic is a great RB Nick. But he is also a dirty and chippy player. By the way I wouldn't trade Sagna for Ivanovic. But I will give the man his due he is one of the best RBs in he division and the world. Still I would have loved to see Suarez take at least a couple of hundred calories off of Ivanonvic's flesh, not one of those love bites he gave him. Hell my girlfriend bites me harder than that and I don't give her a ten match suspension.

by kingraf Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:24 am

Van Persie went nearly 60 goals in the Premier league last two years... Only just about managing a goal every two in Europe....

City have gone scorched Earth at home in the premier league, got scorched twice at the same place in Europe. Finished 2, 1, 2, in the League last three years - compared to Group,Group, eliminations... Sure scoring against Stoke on a cold Weekday is the benchmark.

by kingraf Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:27 am

Also - many congratulations on getting drunk before I was birthed (amusing that it would mean anything to me, as I'm Tea totalling), but I'm sure you'll understand my apprehensions about building a museum in your honor

by socal1976 Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:32 am

kingraf wrote:Van Persie went nearly 60 goals in the Premier league last two years... Only just about managing a goal every two in Europe....

City have gone scorched Earth at home in the premier league, got scorched twice at the same place in Europe. Finished 2, 1, 2, in the League last three years - compared to Group,Group, eliminations... Sure scoring against Stoke on a cold Weekday is the benchmark.

Sorry KR, I just don't buy it. Name another league where the 5th place team can win the European cup. Do you think Villareal or Socidad could ever do that? By the way in England there have been 5 different teams that have become champions of Europe. Nottingham forest, Villa, Liverpool, Chelsea, and United; and the best team to never win the European cup (the Andy murray circa 2011 award) is Arsenal. Compare that with Spain or Italy. 2 teams or 1 team doesn't make a league regardless of how good those teams are. And don't get me wrong Barca and Real Madrid are great, althleti M is pretty sweet recently but if you took the top 5 or 10 teams in any league and matched them up against the premier league top 5 or 10 I know who I have my money on.

by socal1976 Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:34 am

kingraf wrote:Also - many congratulations on getting drunk before I was birthed (amusing that it would mean anything to me, as I'm Tea totalling), but I'm sure you'll understand my apprehensions about building a museum in your honor

Murdoch has already done that in my honor you know that. Good for you that you don't abide by the devil's nectar, but I hope you have no moral constraints when it comes to women. I want to be your age again with the experience that I have today.

by kingraf Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:48 am

Malaga with a bit of luck (Or Dortmund with less luck, I suppose) woulda beaten Dortmund to seal a SF slot a year ago, and they finished Sixth!! Need a bit of luck to go your way to win the Champs League in general, but Chelsea had it in spades in 2012... That and they had Frank Lampard, who was colossal against Barcelona.

by socal1976 Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:50 am

kingraf wrote:Malaga with a bit of luck (Or Dortmund with less luck, I suppose) woulda beaten Dortmund to seal a SF slot a year ago, and they finished Sixth!! Need a bit of luck to go your way to win the Champs League in general, but Chelsea had it in spades in 2012... That and they had Frank Lampard, who was colossal against Barcelona.

Malaga winning the european cup are you sure you are a teatottler because I am drunker than skunk and even that sounds crazy to me. Damn it I have to be at work in six hours. Thank god I am my own boss.

by kingraf Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:54 am

Quite a realistic chance, SoCal - back to back Ref blunders aside, they make Semi's. From there they have a Real Madrid side collapsing under itself in the Semis, and a Bayern side fighting history - favorites to win it? No. But I'd certainly have given them a decent shot at it.

Villarreal made Semi's in 2006, and woulda taken Arsenal out had it not been for missed last minute penalty (undeserved as it was)... they finished seventh that year.

by socal1976 Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:59 am

kingraf wrote:Quite a realistic chance, SoCal - back to back Ref blunders aside, they make Semi's. From there they have a Real Madrid side collapsing under itself in the Semis, and a Bayern side fighting history - favorites to win it? No. But I'd certainly have given them a decent shot at it.

Villarreal made Semi's in 2006, and woulda taken Arsenal out had it not been for missed last minute penalty (undeserved as it was)... they finished seventh that year.

Yeah, somehow those teams don't strike me as being as strong as Chelsea was when they finished 5th and won the European cup, but thanks for the interesting hypotheticals. La liga is a good league but look at all the talent that has left that league in recent years to go to the premier league. Navas, Mata, Negredo, Aguero, Cazorla, Ozil etc. But you guys were willing to take Cesc a great player, and Spurs' ex fullback.

by GSC Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:59 am

Malaga only lost to Dortmund because the refs missed a blatant offside in the final minute

by CFCNick Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:01 am

socal1976 wrote:Ivanovic is a great RB Nick. But he is also a dirty and chippy player. By the way I wouldn't trade Sagna for Ivanovic. But I will give the man his due he is one of the best RBs in he division and the world. Still I would have loved to see Suarez take at least a couple of hundred calories off of Ivanonvic's flesh, not one of those love bites he gave him. Hell my girlfriend bites me harder than that and I don't give her a ten match suspension.

I'm a hockey fan. I love that kind of player. I'll have PK Subban jersey on on wednesday for the big game with Boston.

by socal1976 Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:05 am

CFCNick wrote:
socal1976 wrote:Ivanovic is a great RB Nick. But he is also a dirty and chippy player. By the way I wouldn't trade Sagna for Ivanovic. But I will give the man his due he is one of the best RBs in he division and the world. Still I would have loved to see Suarez take at least a couple of hundred calories off of Ivanonvic's flesh, not one of those love bites he gave him. Hell my girlfriend bites me harder than that and I don't give her a ten match suspension.

I'm a hockey fan. I love that kind of player. I'll have PK Subban jersey on on wednesday for the big game with Boston.

Yeah not a hockey fan so I don't know who that is. No question Ivanovic is a great RB, but I don't like him. Especially, after that ridiculous high boot against Ozil that the functional special Mike Dean missed in the Chelsea/Arsenal match at the emirates. Like I said wish Suarez would have taken a chunk out of him. Next to Luis' goals and footballing genius that incident is the second thing I like about him the most.

by kingraf Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:06 am

Chelsea got incredibly lucky 2012, good as they were... They hardly walked the Champions League. Had to come back from the dead to take out Napoli, were outplayed for the entirety of the competitions last 300 minutes, Took Serious heroics from Lamps, Cech and Drogba to see them through... then some choking from Arjen Robben,and a few crossbars

by socal1976 Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:08 am

kingraf wrote:Chelsea got incredibly lucky 2012, good as they were... They hardly walked the Champions League. Had to come back from the dead to take out Napoli, were outplayed for the entirety of the competitions last 300 minutes, Took Serious heroics from Lamps, Cech and Drogba to see them through... then some choking from Arjen Robben,and a few crossbars

Ok how about Liverpool coming back in the best final I have seen in the last 10 years?

by Stella Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:10 am

Any decent team can win the CL, as proved in 2005. That said, the cream normally rises to the top.

by kingraf Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:12 am

All I cam say to that is... did Garcia's goal really go in? you need helpings of luck, Malaga never got none.

by Hulking_up Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:31 am

kingraf wrote:All I cam say to that is... did Garcia's goal really go in? you need helpings of luck, Malaga never got none.

Liverpool had a blatant pen not awarded to them against Chelsea. People forget that.

by CFCNick Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:34 am

socal1976 wrote:
CFCNick wrote:
socal1976 wrote:Ivanovic is a great RB Nick. But he is also a dirty and chippy player. By the way I wouldn't trade Sagna for Ivanovic. But I will give the man his due he is one of the best RBs in he division and the world. Still I would have loved to see Suarez take at least a couple of hundred calories off of Ivanonvic's flesh, not one of those love bites he gave him. Hell my girlfriend bites me harder than that and I don't give her a ten match suspension.

I'm a hockey fan. I love that kind of player. I'll have PK Subban jersey on on wednesday for the big game with Boston.

Yeah not a hockey fan so I don't know who that is. No question Ivanovic is a great RB, but I don't like him. Especially, after that ridiculous high boot against Ozil that the functional special Mike Dean missed in the Chelsea/Arsenal match at the emirates. Like I said wish Suarez would have taken a chunk out of him. Next to Luis' goals and footballing genius that incident is the second thing I like about him the most.

The general feeling on Subban from most neutral fans is how you view Ivanovic.

by Champagne_Socialist Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:11 am

socal1976 wrote:
kingraf wrote:Look, I'm a huge fan of Ozil, and woulda preferred it if we had kept the £50m net, & Ozil.

I'm a bit surprised stats have been completely ignored from the discussion, or treated like irrelevant "by the ways"...while not baseball or cricket, football, too has enough handy stats... I mean I'm sorry, but we are talking about a result-based business, not freaking comparing The Black Album with The Blueprint I. Arsenal rightly get criticised for not having won anything since before Moses parted the Red Sea, but I don't see any non-Arsenal fan defending it by saying, "I don't need statistics to tell me Arsenal have played well over the last 80 years".... Stats aren't the only indicator of a good player, but you won't find too many good players who don't have the stats to back it up

Also - "Suarez is better than Ibra"...

I mean... ... no really

What gave it away? His outstanding record in Holland? or his outstanding record vs The big teams in the EPL?
Maybe it's his ability to have missed 25 games in the last five years to suspension... without one single red card.

You should catch up on the thread or read it more carefully KR. The Arsenal fans had loads of stats to prove that Ozil was better than, I am not kidding here Coutinho and Lallana. In fact, if you look at Ozil's stats he has produced more when looking at goals and assists combined than either Mata/Silva/ and Oscar. But somehow the British media isn't crucifying those 3 players as gigantic flops and chokers.

What is so funny about Suarez being better than Ibra. Ibra was a giant flop at Barca and plays in a pretty weak league. He is a world class player but I would rather have Suarez than Ibra. I think Suarez' work rate and pace give him the nod for me over Ibramovich. The guy is averaging a goal a game in the premier league despite missing 6 league matches to suspension. My only problem with Suarez is that when he bit Ivanovic he didn't fully commit and take his ear off. I would have liked to see Suarez eat Ivanovic's liver with some fawa beans and a fine chianti. Ivanovic is a chippy sod who was tugging and pulling him like a drunken teenager pawing his girlfriend on prom night.

Ibra never flopped at Barca, he scored on average 1 goal every 2 games and only left because he fel out massively with Pep. At this present time I would rather have Ibra because he is banging in the goals in ligue 1, in the champions league and for sweden in international football. In terms of who I would rather Arsenal bought then it would probably be Suarez because Ibra is about 32 whilst Suarez is 27. No matter how great youa re age will catch up with you at some point.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:51 am

Im sad I missed this thread last night. Stupidity reigned supreme.

Ozil doesnt have to have had a World Class season to be a good buy. The fact you're trying to muddy those two points to me just shows you know you're wrong about the world class season bit.

I will pretty much still judge Arsenal on their league and champions league performances. Which look to me like they'll read "not quite good enough" again. The FA Cup win that is inevitably coming will make that "just good enough". WOO! Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread Part 'x' - Page 17 3559488474

Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread Part 'x' - Page 17 3559488474

by Champagne_Socialist Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:03 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Im sad I missed this thread last night. Stupidity reigned supreme.

Ozil doesnt have to have had a World Class season to be a good buy. The fact you're trying to muddy those two points to me just shows you know you're wrong about the world class season bit.

I will pretty much still judge Arsenal on their league and champions league performances. Which look to me like they'll read "not quite good enough" again. The FA Cup win that is inevitably coming will make that "just good enough". WOO!

going by the fact a lot of people on here were saying Arsenal would drop out of the top 4 this year but instead we are challenging to be winners tells me this season has been a success.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:08 pm

Is that really how you define it?

by Champagne_Socialist Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:10 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Is that really how you define it?

Well it seems your definition of success is to finish in 1st place. My definition of success is very different for each club eg Arsenal challenging for the title when we were favourites to drop out of the top 4 is success, Liverpool finishing in the top 4 is success, crysta palace avoiding relegation is success etc etc.

You don't have to fionish in 1st place in the epl to have had a successful season.

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