Tonight's action - spoiler

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Anyone interested, josh up next

Don't see what Salido did wrong. Loma held far more than Salido than low blowed.

Salido was the one fighting, Loma was holding. Can't stand Steve Bunce at this hour. He may as well interview himself with the amount he lets his guests say.

Loma can still be a great if he wants, I reckon.

Can I even be bothered watching Chavez Jr... He's so useless...

Chavez has no defence, Vera's hardly an offensive mastermind but he can't miss

Some people actually thought that Froch would lose to this guy, what planet are they on?

Yeah Bryan Vera's not even a real super middleweight and for the first three rounds he backed him up.

I think Chavez will win eventually, put a true super middleweight contender takes him apart. Froch would devour him.

Jesus, can anyone think what would happen if Groves went in against Chavez, would be sparked in 4 surely, he doesn't know how to defend anything. Just relies on his chin.

The chin can only last so long, and he's facing guys naturally half his size.

Man it's ten to five AM and we're watching fighters of this level. Must be crazy.

At least Chavez can throw more than 10 punches a round without starting to look like he's throwing in treacle.

John Bloody Wayne wrote:The chin can only last so long, and he's facing guys naturally half his size.

Man it's ten to five AM and we're watching fighters of this level. Must be crazy.

Haha, I only really stayed up to watch Salido/Loma, I may as well watch this too, it's actually a relatively entertaining scrap, but yeah, I must really love Boxing....

Though sometimes I don't know why.

Same, all the way through.

Haha, got to give it to Vera, guy gives it his all even if his punches are bouncing off of the guy that probably rehydrated like 25lbs.

Apparently cos GGG/Lee is now off it's gonna be Chavez/GGG next, jesus JCCJr will feel some serious pain...

Vera just can't dent Chavez whereas chavez has the heavy artillery in his shots

Chavez will get ruined again soon, vera isn't a huge puncher at 160 so less so at 168 and true supermiddles like groves, ward and froch would ruin him unless he tightens up

114/113 to...Vera on my card, although it looked like Chavez edged it to me. Vera was nicking early rounds.

Not impressed though.

Golovkins going to murder him next to be honest, he has no defence.

John Bloody Wayne wrote:114/113 to...Vera on my card, although it looked like Chavez edged it to me. Vera was nicking early rounds.

Not impressed though.

Really had it 116-111 to Chavez.

Chavez landed 62% of his power shots :S

And still couldn't budge Vera, who obviously is teek tough but is a rather average sized MW...

GGG v Chavez? Jesus that would be hilarious!

Amazing how unmarked Vera is.

Oh look Buncey's talking bull again.

Yeah I've been on 8.4% ciders btw

JCC says he wants GGG next, is he for real? Does he genuinely believe in himself or is he just stupid, full credit if he takes that though?

Hahaha Chavez Jr's voice is hilarious! It hasn't broken yet.

Chavez GGG would be interesting actually - for all the criticism Chavez gets, he has two things going for him.
1) That chin is almighty. Hewn from granite, and re-enforced with Steel.
2) His accuracy is among the best in in the business. Don't think I've seen a fight from him where he wasn't landing at around 35%+.

GGG should take care of him, but he has taken awfully long to knock out guys like Curtis Stevens, which wasn't even a KO, and Adama... so I'm not convinced he eats a 180lbs Chavez's soul at SMW

Didn't watch the fight but the impression I'm getting from reading on the web is the best anyone could argue for Lomachenko is a draw. Sounded more of an intruiging watch rather than a great fight. Hope people put this into prspective though and don't make out he has now been over rated. Great credit to only lose to a split decision for a world title in only his second fight against a very good fighter. Two or three bouts against top 20 fighters then go again. He'll be mixing it with the top of the table again in no time.

I said I was underwhelmed with his first performance spencer and I was again last night. It depends what you mean by labelling someone hype I guess. Hyped as in, truss saying the next p4p number 1... Etc. in that sense he's overhyped by some. Doesn't make him rubbish.

He looks very good when he lets the punches flow, he just didn't do it enough.

The gamble of letting him in with a wily old pro in his second fight was shown as exactly that, a gamble. Looked to me that he was worried about salido coming on strong, and was conserving energy throughout the fight. He then looked really good in the last two rounds, and it was salido who was gassing. That's why you have learning fights, if they rematched I think lomachenko would win now he knows he has 12 in the bag and plenty in the tank.

On the positives, he was never hurt, he knows what its like to get hit on the nads all night, he's gone 12 rounds, the hype will calm down and he can get on and have a good career. He can come again.

Anthony Joshua - Gorgeous and victorious. Won't learn much from that though.

Ricky Burns - Brave but lacking. Crawford very smooth., but expected a little bit more.

A performance finally worthy of the name by Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. A dedicated Chavez Jr could finally step out of the shadow of his legendary father. 

Chavez Jr, whilst he has power, doesn't have the pure power Chavez Snr had. But his power can keep anyone honest. 

Chavez Jr vs Golovkin would be an interesting fight. Naturally Chavez would have size advantage. Golovkin has power. But Chavez is very accurate. 

Chavez Jr beats Froch and Pascal. No doubts. 

Also really delighted for Orlando Salido. Uncle Bob lined him up to get beat, yet Salido the crafty veteran had other ideas. Salido's got enough left in the tank to pick up a world title at super featherweight.

Good one there Gerry, Chavez just beat a not very good middleweight, Martinez, Lee and Zbik showed JCC jnr his level which is below the elite. Froch has a field day with him.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Good one there Gerry, Chavez just beat a not very good middleweight, Martinez, Lee and Zbik showed JCC jnr his level which is below the elite. Froch has a field day with him.

Martinez who's the best middleweight on the planet? Zbik who was a titlist? Lee who got KO'd? Yeah. 

So Froch who got schooled by Jermain Taylor, middleweight, until Froch landed a Hail Mary and Dirrell who boxed Froch's ears off until he got robbed. 

Chavez beats Froch. Inside 10.

Chavez isn't the greatest fighter in history - but hes got an almighty chin, and dammed accurate. Combined with the fact that nobody will ever moan about him coming at whichever weight he feels is okay... Means his chin, accuracy and weight advantage means his eternally in with a shout. Especially against Froch who isn't going to embarrass him like Martinez.

I'd pick Froch to beat Chavez............Froch is more skilled, has great stamina and punches hard....

I'd pick him to stop Chavez.........

Really Gerry are you comparing Chavez to Taylor and Dirrel?!

Now that's like comparing Tyson Fury to Ali. Incomparable.

Firstly Chavez has no real speed or boxing ability.....at all.

He gets punched in his face at an alarming rate...if it wasn't for his granite chin, he would be a shadow in the sport. Just a name.

in fact, that's all he is, a name.

But to compare him to crafty, speedy, technical fighters in Taylor and Dirrel is frankly a joke.

It's not really like comparing Fury to Ali is it ??

It is Truss.

Fury is a slow, un gifted thug with no talent or brain.

Ali is one of the most technically brilliant fighters of our era, quick and powerful.

chavez compares to fury more than he does Taylor or Dirrel. That's actually a laughable statement

mobilemaster8 wrote:Really Gerry are you comparing Chavez to Taylor and Dirrel?!

Now that's like comparing Tyson Fury to Ali. Incomparable.

Firstly Chavez has no real speed or boxing ability.....at all.

He gets punched in his face at an alarming rate...if it wasn't for his granite chin, he would be a shadow in the sport. Just a name.

in fact, that's all he is, a name.

But to compare him to crafty, speedy, technical fighters in Taylor and Dirrel is frankly a joke.

Chavez Jr might be slow and had poor mobility. But Froch is even slower. And his mobility is hardly much better. 

The Taylor comparison was in relation to Chavez's bout with Martinez. Chavez wasn't hurt by Martinez whereas Froch was badly hurt by Taylor. 

Chavez beats Froch.

It's pretty patronising to his victims to say he is an un gifted thug with no talent and brain...

I'm not his greatest fan Moby...But some context..

You are wrong about Fury in the last few weeks for some reason he's become the next Holyfield in some quarters on here.    

Gerry SA wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Good one there Gerry, Chavez just beat a not very good middleweight, Martinez, Lee and Zbik showed JCC jnr his level which is below the elite. Froch has a field day with him.

Martinez who's the best middleweight on the planet? Zbik who was a titlist? Lee who got KO'd? Yeah. 

So Froch who got schooled by Jermain Taylor, middleweight, until Froch landed a Hail Mary and Dirrell who boxed Froch's ears off until he got robbed. 

Chavez beats Froch. Inside 10.

Zbik who was well and truly robbed whereas Dirrell was not, there's no point debating anything Mexican with you Gerry because as far as you're concerned they're all unbeatable and when they lose there is boundless excuses.

Froch UD12.

Gerry SA wrote:A performance finally worthy of the name by Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. A dedicated Chavez Jr could finally step out of the shadow of his legendary father. 

Chavez Jr, whilst he has power, doesn't have the pure power Chavez Snr had. But his power can keep anyone honest. 

Chavez Jr vs Golovkin would be an interesting fight. Naturally Chavez would have size advantage. Golovkin has power. But Chavez is very accurate. 

Chavez Jr beats Froch and Pascal. No doubts. 

Also really delighted for Orlando Salido. Uncle Bob lined him up to get beat, yet Salido the crafty veteran had other ideas. Salido's got enough left in the tank to pick up a world title at super featherweight.

GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh, mate you should beat a stand up comedian... So funny.

His percentage is down to
A Facing a guy who's much smaller and not that good and
B Low workrate.

My take on the action from last night, barring the Abraham-Stieglitz fight which I've not seen yet.

To be honest, I don't think Burns deserves too much of a kicking for what happened last night, and I thought he performed as well as he could have done against Crawford in any circumstance. Burns is a boxer, a good-level technician, not particularly great in any one area but decent enough to compensate for his lack of big-time power. But when he meets someone quicker, more elusive, with more variety, with better footwork and just as good in the stamina department (as Crawford was), he doesn't have the power to offset the fact that they're a better boxer than him. Ergo, there wasn't much he could have done with Crawford in any case.

People saying they weren't impressed with Crawford - really? I think the 'budding superstar' and 'next big thing' lines from across the pond have maybe left some with the impression that anything less than absolutely dazzling is a failure to live up to expectations. A big step up in class for him, his first twelve-rounder, on foreign soil and against a very good fighter who is proven at world level - and he dominated him. Not unreasonable to expect that he'll get better with a few more big assignments against the leaders at 135. His defence, for the most part, was as good as it had looked to me beforehand and while maybe he wasn't hitting with the same authority we might have expected, he showed he could handle himself when things got a little rough in close. Be interesting to see how he develops now he has a belt; I think he's a very good fighter.

Nothing to be embarrassed about for Burns then, in my view. He's still a viable fight for the other titlists in the division such as Vazquez or Abril, and if the worst comes to the worst and he has to drop back down to domestic / Euro level then he should still have enough in the locker to beat the best of the rest and be back knocking on the world title door within a couple of years.

As for Degale - was I the only one who thought there were some very encouraging signs at certain points last night? Before anyone gets too carried away, let me stress that there were also causes for concern.

But let's give him some credit. For about five or six rounds I thought there was a lot to applaud in his showing. Much more alert, much better punch output and taking less liberties than usual. Genuinely don't think there are too many 168 pounders out there who can match him for speed and natural athleticism. There were some real bits of class in there at times from Degale, I thought; some of those Judah-esque right uppercuts on the counter were very impressive and I thought he was working the high-low combinations much better than we've seen in other fights recently.

Then in the seventh I was pretty frustrated to see his less impressive traits come to the surface again. His defence hadn't been too bad until that point (less reflexes, more high guard this time) but he was legitimately hurt in the seventh. Personally, I think Khatchikian missed a trick in that round, and will be kicking himself when he watches it back. There was a real chance to swing the momentum back in his favour, but he didn't put his foot down and try to drive home the advantage. Degale should never have been allowed to recover as easily and with as much time as he was there.

After that, I thought the next couple of rounds were very frustrating. What struck me is that once he'd been hurt, Degale seemed to completely lose his focus and game plan. Some fighters just can't hide it when they're discouraged or concerned about what's happening in there - Shane Mosley a classic example. When it's not going his way, Mosley can never hide that disappointment and look of panic. Degale seemed to be wearing that face in the seventh, and it took him a while to shrug it off. For those three rounds (seven to nine) it was the same infuriating stuff with Degale all over again; taking breaks on the ropes, which he hadn't been doing beforehand, throwing wild punches while off-balance, letting his output drop, taking too many chances defensively etc.

Then in the eleventh he suddenly reverted back to the Degale he'd been early on; the outright aggressor, not the back foot counter-puncher. The man carrying the fight and using his speed to blind his opponent. THAT'S the Degale I like and want to see. After dozing off for a few rounds he switched it back on, upped the tempo in the eleventh, started throwing the body shots again and got his opponent out of there.

Khatchikian is no great shakes but looked a reasonable enough opertor, and Degale showed that he is a level above that type of figher. I've been a critic of Degale on just about every level you can imagine, but I'm going to cut him some slack for last night. Far from perfect but a marked improvement from some of his recent outings, and he's starting to slowly turn my opinion around of him on a personal level now. I hope he gets the fight with Bika for the WBC belt - not convinced he can win it yet, but he's done more than enough for the WBC to force that fight through.

Key things for Degale to address is developing a jab first off. He still doesn't have one on any regular basis and keeps setting up his attacks with loaded up hooks. Also, a bit more head and body movement as he comes forward. If he can do that, then he has the basic package to trouble the belt holders at least.

With regards to Lomachenko - hard to know whether we should be disappointed with his performance or not. Just goes to show that, no matter how much the amateur game is tweaked, how long they learn their trade in a vest or how good a trainer they have when they switch over - the professional ranks are still different, and still a step up. Rigondeaux is stupidly gifted and completely born to box, but even he waited until his seventh fight or so before taking on a belt holder of any kind - and even then, the struggles he had in that fight served as a reminder that you can't rush it as a professional.

What struck me most, first off, was that Loma didn't seem to have that confidence to sit down on his shots here that he had in his first fight. He was moving constantly and as a result never seemed to be getting through with any real quality or giving Salido anything to think about, or anything to make him cautious about marching forward. His accuracy was a lot lower than I was expecting. Also, he didn't know how to cope when Salido got inside.

Given that he was the betting favourite and being talked up as a history-maker, it's a disappointing result, I guess. But at the same time, he did manage to control prolonged periods of the fight when he found his range and kept it long, and it was only his second pro outing. He was in there with a good, if rather uninspiring and ugly, fighter, and there was enough to suggest that with another half-dozen or so fights under his belt, Lomachenko could be beating those kind of guys.

Liked Joshua's fluidity and relaxed style, but it's time to give him a decent run out against someone who will punch back now. Ian Lewison, or even Matt Skelton. If there's no Brit to serve that purpose, get him on an undercard in Europe. Needs some rounds under his belt and someone who he's going to have to at least unlock from an attacking point of view, rather than simply bulldoze.

Disappointed for John Simpson, but he's just a bit too small to hang with the stronger Lightweights out there, really. Murray's power flattered to deceive last night, I reckon, but he is immensely tough with a good engine, and he'll have some good value-for-money scraps with the other Lightweights out there in Britain such as Coyle in the future, as well as a possible rematch with Mitchell. Good to have him back and in form.

Chavez Jr? Not impressed. Yes, he was much, much better than he was last time out against Vera, but that doesn't mean his performance last night was all that great in itself. He was at least in good physical condition and stayed disciplined, but his lack of speed, mobility and defence will see him completely dismantled by any of the top operators at 168 or 175.

Almost entirely agree Chris but I will say that Burns looks like a fighter devoid of any confidence, the work rate we're used to seeing just isn't there any more. He's had a good career considering his lack of power but for such a tough fighter he doesn't seem to trust his chin any more.

Think many would agree with you mate but I'd prefer to see how Burns bounces back and how he performs in subsequent fights before I reach that pitch.

Burns' confidence should have been at an all-time high going in to the Gonzalez fight, but for a long time there Gonzalez did the same things to him that Crawford was doing. Getting around his shots, forcing him to go in to a shell on the ropes and buy breathers, making him tentative and unsure etc. Maybe not to the same degree that Crawford did, or with as much consistency, but watching that fight I don't think it's much of a surprise how last night unfolded for him. On that occasion his sheer bloody-mindedness (or a lack of it on his opponent's part) got him through, but there were some serious flaws which got explored in that fight and I think Crawford just continued that, really.

I guess that's why I'm not too disheartened as a Burns fan, really. As I said, Crawford had all the edges in a technical sense, and Burns hasn't got the power to even things out. If Crawford's stamina and temperament held up, then Ricky was always going to be up against it.

I won't be writing Burns' career obituary just yet and I think it's still a possibility that he can have a strong bounce back from this, like Froch did after a similarly deflating defeat against Ward. If Hearn is willing to take a chance like he was for Froch then I don't think it'd be beyond Burns to beat Vazquez for the IBF belt, for instance. Vazquez is a very good boxer, too, but without Crawford's basic speed and without a particularly fearsome punch.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's been carrying a jaw injury to some degree for a while now, if you compare the Burns who fought Martinez and then Gonzalez onwards there's a big difference. Against Martinez shots were bouncing off him and the same against Moses to a degree but recently he gets tagged and he retreats that's not like Burns at all.

It's a shame because after Froch he's my favourite boxer out there, always gives it his all and has the same bloody mindedness but it all looks to be catching up to him at an alarming rate.

Ricky Burns trainer Billy Nelson singled out Crawfords counter punching either when stationery or on the move as influencing the fight.

From that comment it would seem Burns apparent lack of ideas and wariness to throw punches was due to the fact that every time he did he got a face full of leather.

Crawford was also physically stronger and was able to push Burns around the ring, particularly onto the ropes.  The southpaw stance switching to orthodox when delivering the meaningful punches was clever stuff. Crawford must be one of the best switch hitting operators out there at the moment.

With DeGale you know he could be so much better if he dropped the antics and knuckled down to fighting his opponent. His show boating along with the meaningless pitter patter flashy punches really annoy me, to the point I want to see him sparked on the spot.

Watts commentary made out like Crawford was no great shakes but I thought that was a load of balls. He comfortably outboxed Burns an was able to hurt him on a number of occasions.

Degale is a talent for me. Specially after watching Stieglitz, Abraham and Chavez in action. Hes good enough to beat all 3.

I suspect he would always have been outclassed by Crawford, but I said during the fight burns was being backed up by jabs, then covering up (badly) on the ropes.

Not lacking bravery or heart but looked gunshy to me. Don't know if its physical or mental but he looks a busted flush to me. Hope not, like him, but if its the end of the road at top level he did the very best he could with what he had.

milkyboy wrote:I suspect he would always have been outclassed by Crawford, but I said during the fight burns was being backed up by jabs, then covering up (badly) on the ropes.

Not lacking bravery or heart but looked gunshy to me. Don't know if its physical or mental but he looks a busted flush to me. Hope not, like him, but if its the end of the road at top level he did the very best he could with what he had.

I agree Milky, Burns wasn't getting pushed back or backed up he was backing up as soon as Crawford threw anything which is the worrying thing for me.

I thought Crawford was excellent last night. His temperament was as impressive as his skill set. Ricky's work rate was stymied by Crawford's countering: he admitted as much in the corner when he told Nelson he couldn't go to the body as a result.

Plenty of fights left for Burns - Crolla next in all likelihood.

Looking forward to seeing Crawford again - excellent technician. Reminded me of Stevie Johnson a bit.

milkyboy wrote:I suspect he would always have been outclassed by Crawford, but I said during the fight burns was being backed up by jabs, then covering up (badly) on the ropes.

Not lacking bravery or heart but looked gunshy to me. Don't know if its physical or mental but he looks a busted flush to me. Hope not, like him, but if its the end of the road at top level he did the very best he could with what he had.

I agree with the gun shy notion but it wasn't helped by Crawford's exceptional counter punching ability.  I know from experience that being made to miss then immediately getting hit by strong counters is almost impossible to fight against.  

If Burns lacked anything it was the abandonment to run in throwing punches with scant regard for his chin.  In my opinion though running in would have led to Crawford KO'ing Burns half way through the fight. Ricky was that far out of his depth.  It seemed from Burns corner instruction that Burns was to use long straight punches and hand speed to land. It only took Crawford a couple of rounds to make Burns start to miss badly. Then the countering started in earnest.

The fight was about levels for me and Crawford looks like a guy that will be kingpin of the division.

I was impressed with Crawford, very good boxer. Nice footwork, fast hands, good defensive and offensive skills. It was an armchair ride for him last night. Still wouldn't expect him to have burns back pedalling to the ropes from a jab.

I thought Crawford was able to physically push Burns onto the ropes without even throwing a punch, he seemed very strong compared to Burns. I agree Burns became fearful but my feeling is Crawford's ability to hit Burns at will played a big part in that.

I suppose we will only know what Burns has left when he steps back down to his own level. Billy Nelson is looking for another world title fight in the summer, maybe they are cashing in or possibly there is still some ambition there.