Samson Lee

Won MOM versus Munster last night in another good performance.

Does anyone know why he is not in the Welsh match day squad, being overlooked for his regional colleague who doesn't even make the regional squad and IMO the new scrummaging laws do not suit

baffled!

It is a strange one some have said lack of fitness but that surely a miff given hes playing week in week out.

Is it attitude? Does anyone know.

Gatland obvioulsy sees something in Rh Jones that Regional coaches don't, he hasn't done bad when he's come on but if we want a genuine successor to A Jones Lee seems to fit the bill.

bedfordwelsh wrote:It is a strange one some have said lack of fitness but that surely a Myth given hes playing week in week out.

Is it attitude?  Does anyone know.

Gatland obvioulsy sees something in Rh Jones that Regional coaches don't, he hasn't done bad when he's come on but if we want a genuine successor to A Jones Lee seems to fit the bill.

Apparently he struggles with the fitness targets they set him in the welsh camp.

I think they are just being cautious with him. No need to rush him in when we can do it carefully. He has been with the squad for over a year and it us obvious what a talent he is. Better to nurture him than to break him.

We need him to take over from Adam jones soon. I would guess that he will be fighting Adam jones for his shirt by the next RWC.

What a great situation we could be in, to have a first class back up front row on the bench. A luxury very few teams will have at the RWC.

but Maes Rh Jones is not much older? So why would we be happy to throw him into the squad, but nurture samson?

GavinDragon wrote:but Maes Rh Jones is not much older? So why would we be happy to throw him into the squad, but nurture samson?

GD,

Thats the bit I can't understand either, I agree with Meas' train of thought but Gatland then contradicts that by using Rh Jones who even more bizarrely a converted loose head.

If we wanted to nurtue Lee then surely bringing him off the bench as he has been doing with Jones would be ideal prep.

that would be my thinking too BW,

also if his fitness isnt there the final 20 minutes of matches would be excellent, especially as he really seems to be excelling with the new laws

It's beyond me but it looks like Rhodri is in his favored books. No way on this earth is it Samson's fitness because he proved yesterday that he is more than capable of putting in a shift around the park. He was amazing in defense yesterday and carried a lot of ball which made him stand out.
Our scrum wasn't as dominant so it wasn't scrum time he stood out, he stood out around the park. I don't think it is his attitude either because he seems like a very quite type of guy. I just put it down to Gats favoritism.
Gatland needs to take a look now and really look at his options. It's beyond me how he isn't in the 23. He has already become an established scrummager and he's what 22, that is very very rare in rugby.

Gats has a history of putting faith in existing squad players. I suspect Lee will get there when there's a couple injuries and then will stay there. I don't think it's a conspiracy against his fitness.

Take Cooper for example.

GavinDragon wrote:but Maes Rh Jones is not much older? So why would we be happy to throw him into the squad, but nurture samson?

Method to hits the fitness levels they want to see.

I don't think he will ever have the potential of Sampson and I suppose that the coaches know that.

For example when Adam jones was a youngster Wales didn't rush him either. I don't think that Sampson would gain much from international rugby if he is not fit enough to do the full 80 minutes.

He could be a quality sub to bring on but maybe Gats is looking long term here and making a point that players have to reach certain standards before they are considered.


I'd rate Lee as the best young tighthead prop in Europe at the moment in terms of scrummaging. If he can get fitter then Wales will have an ideal replacement for Adam Jones.

Jhamer25 wrote:It's beyond me but it looks like Rhodri is in his favored books. No way on this earth is it Samson's fitness because he proved yesterday that he is more than capable of putting in a shift around the park. He was amazing in defense yesterday and carried a lot of ball which made him stand out.
Our scrum wasn't as dominant so it wasn't scrum time he stood out, he stood out around the park. I don't think it is his attitude either because he seems like a very quite type of guy. I just put it down to Gats favoritism.
Gatland needs to take a look now and really look at his options. It's beyond me how he isn't in the 23. He has already become an established scrummager and he's what 22, that is very very rare in rugby.

Mate he proves his fitness levels at club level not international...!!! There is a massive difference as a tighthead.

There is a huge difference between propping against Kilcoyne and Joe Marler for 80 minutes.

maestegmafia wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:It's beyond me but it looks like Rhodri is in his favored books. No way on this earth is it Samson's fitness because he proved yesterday that he is more than capable of putting in a shift around the park. He was amazing in defense yesterday and carried a lot of ball which made him stand out.
Our scrum wasn't as dominant so it wasn't scrum time he stood out, he stood out around the park. I don't think it is his attitude either because he seems like a very quite type of guy. I just put it down to Gats favoritism.
Gatland needs to take a look now and really look at his options. It's beyond me how he isn't in the 23. He has already become an established scrummager and he's what 22, that is very very rare in rugby.

Mate he proves his fitness levels at club level not international...!!! There is a massive difference as a tighthead.

There is a huge difference between propping against Kilcoyne and Joe Marler for 80 minutes.

Thats false. Its debatable who is the better scrummager between those two.

profitius wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:It's beyond me but it looks like Rhodri is in his favored books. No way on this earth is it Samson's fitness because he proved yesterday that he is more than capable of putting in a shift around the park. He was amazing in defense yesterday and carried a lot of ball which made him stand out.
Our scrum wasn't as dominant so it wasn't scrum time he stood out, he stood out around the park. I don't think it is his attitude either because he seems like a very quite type of guy. I just put it down to Gats favoritism.
Gatland needs to take a look now and really look at his options. It's beyond me how he isn't in the 23. He has already become an established scrummager and he's what 22, that is very very rare in rugby.

Mate he proves his fitness levels at club level not international...!!! There is a massive difference as a tighthead.

There is a huge difference between propping against Kilcoyne and Joe Marler for 80 minutes.

Thats false. Its debatable who is the better scrummager between those two.

So you are saying there is no difference between facing the England pack or the Munster Second/third string...???

maestegmafia wrote:

profitius wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:It's beyond me but it looks like Rhodri is in his favored books. No way on this earth is it Samson's fitness because he proved yesterday that he is more than capable of putting in a shift around the park. He was amazing in defense yesterday and carried a lot of ball which made him stand out.
Our scrum wasn't as dominant so it wasn't scrum time he stood out, he stood out around the park. I don't think it is his attitude either because he seems like a very quite type of guy. I just put it down to Gats favoritism.
Gatland needs to take a look now and really look at his options. It's beyond me how he isn't in the 23. He has already become an established scrummager and he's what 22, that is very very rare in rugby.

Mate he proves his fitness levels at club level not international...!!! There is a massive difference as a tighthead.

There is a huge difference between propping against Kilcoyne and Joe Marler for 80 minutes.

Thats false. Its debatable who is the better scrummager between those two.

So you are saying there is no difference between facing the England pack or the Munster Second/third string...???

You mentioned them as individuals. Didn't Scarlets face Quins too this season?

profitius wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

profitius wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:It's beyond me but it looks like Rhodri is in his favored books. No way on this earth is it Samson's fitness because he proved yesterday that he is more than capable of putting in a shift around the park. He was amazing in defense yesterday and carried a lot of ball which made him stand out.
Our scrum wasn't as dominant so it wasn't scrum time he stood out, he stood out around the park. I don't think it is his attitude either because he seems like a very quite type of guy. I just put it down to Gats favoritism.
Gatland needs to take a look now and really look at his options. It's beyond me how he isn't in the 23. He has already become an established scrummager and he's what 22, that is very very rare in rugby.

Mate he proves his fitness levels at club level not international...!!! There is a massive difference as a tighthead.

There is a huge difference between propping against Kilcoyne and Joe Marler for 80 minutes.

Thats false. Its debatable who is the better scrummager between those two.

So you are saying there is no difference between facing the England pack or the Munster Second/third string...???

You mentioned them as individuals. Didn't Scarlets face Quins too this season?

You have to put the relative packs into the situation to give the scenario discussed some reality.

I don't think the Quins pack are quite as powerful as the England pack either. From what I remember when Quins played the Scarlets they had the upper hand at the scrum too

This is about fitness and durability, although Lee is a fantadtic prospect , there is no reason to rush him into the welsh tight head shirt, or even the bench shirt just yet.

He is in his second season of senior rugby. Another season of training with the squad, a few games from the bench against ladder opponents and he will be in great shape ready for the RWC.

I have yet to see Lee go backwards and he was also part of a scarlets scrum who gained ascendancy against a full ospreys pack this year....

I am not suggesting he is thrown in to start but i would like to see him on the bench to be brought on to see how he goes

maestegmafia wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:It's beyond me but it looks like Rhodri is in his favored books. No way on this earth is it Samson's fitness because he proved yesterday that he is more than capable of putting in a shift around the park. He was amazing in defense yesterday and carried a lot of ball which made him stand out.
Our scrum wasn't as dominant so it wasn't scrum time he stood out, he stood out around the park. I don't think it is his attitude either because he seems like a very quite type of guy. I just put it down to Gats favoritism.
Gatland needs to take a look now and really look at his options. It's beyond me how he isn't in the 23. He has already become an established scrummager and he's what 22, that is very very rare in rugby.

Mate he proves his fitness levels at club level not international...!!! There is a massive difference as a tighthead.

There is a huge difference between propping against Kilcoyne and Joe Marler for 80 minutes.

Mate he is more than capable of playing a full game for the Scarlet's. Yes it might be more intense and quicker but i personally have faith in Samson and he needs game time of the bench to get use to it. Jake Ball said last week it was very different from pro 12 rugby and it has done him the world of good to understand the different environment.

Samson applied a lot of pressure to Marler in both Heineken Cup games. Our scrum was a prime reason why we won the first round. Kilcoyne is an established scrummager for Munster and has proved that in Europe over the past few seasons. Their is very little difference between Marler and Kilcoyne at scrum time.  So their isn't a huge difference at all, hardly a small one between them. Both are good club level scrummagers.

All im saying is Samson is more than deserving of a spot int he 23 than Rhodri Jones

Jhamer25 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:It's beyond me but it looks like Rhodri is in his favored books. No way on this earth is it Samson's fitness because he proved yesterday that he is more than capable of putting in a shift around the park. He was amazing in defense yesterday and carried a lot of ball which made him stand out.
Our scrum wasn't as dominant so it wasn't scrum time he stood out, he stood out around the park. I don't think it is his attitude either because he seems like a very quite type of guy. I just put it down to Gats favoritism.
Gatland needs to take a look now and really look at his options. It's beyond me how he isn't in the 23. He has already become an established scrummager and he's what 22, that is very very rare in rugby.

Mate he proves his fitness levels at club level not international...!!! There is a massive difference as a tighthead.

There is a huge difference between propping against Kilcoyne and Joe Marler for 80 minutes.

Mate he is more than capable of playing a full game for the Scarlet's. Yes it might be more intense and quicker but i personally have faith in Samson and he needs game time of the bench to get use to it. Jake Ball said last week it was very different from pro 12 rugby and it has done him the world of good to understand the different environment.

Samson applied a lot of pressure to Marler in both Heineken Cup games. Our scrum was a prime reason why we won the first round. Kilcoyne is an established scrummager for Munster and has proved that in Europe over the past few seasons. Their is very little difference between Marler and Kilcoyne at scrum time.  So their isn't a huge difference at all, hardly a small one between them. Both are good club level scrummagers.

All im saying is Samson is more than deserving of a spot int he 23 than Rhodri Jones

He will get it but not for another season, probably the AIs. He needs to work on his fitness. That is what has been said about him.