England or Ireland - Who will win the six nations?

First topic message reminder :

As much as I like them because France will more than likely have to beat Ireland by more than 50 points (if England beat Italy by 20 plus) they arent likely to win the championship.

So who will win? England or Ireland and why?

Some facts and figures:

-Ireland have won once in Paris in approx 40 years. They got a draw there last time they played there.

-England are the only team never to have been defeated in the six nations by Italy.

-It was 15-19 to England on their last visit to Italy. Their record points margin win in Italy is 47 points in 2000.

-Ireland have a 49 points cushion over England.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Scratch wrote:Lets hope for a massive irish win and a reminder to england that they are half baked, with 1 championship in 11 years and 1 piece of silverware this year they are  by no means the finished article despite posters on here thinking they are the 2nd coming.

Back handed compliment for the English side there Scratch.

We're far from the finished article yet are number 4 in the IRB rabkings and have just hammered a very good Welsh side.

Imagine where we'll be when some of these young lads get 20/30 caps under their belt.

you'll peak

NZ will show you exactly where you are in world rugby

perhaps if england waited to slap themselves on the back when they had won something we might all take note, fact is we have been here before, almost every year and England are no better than they were in 2004. There were years of poor management, then the debacle with Johnson and the 2011 dwarf throwing RWC and now you have a team that will come 2nd, again

From that england fans will crow about consistency of position in the tournament, i always point out that winning it, with a slam, is the aim….not coming 2nd. What is most alarming is that you have had SOOOOOO many chances to win it and choked

I don't hate england one bit, but i detest the arrogant myopia that england fans engage in

it means nothing really, Wales still have a far superior record against England in the last 3 years, as well as bucket loads of silverware.

Lets see where all the chat gets you next year.

wow. just wow.

i'm really pleased with the way england are not only playing, but progressing.

scratch maybe you should try to focus on positive thoughts about wales rather than get yourself all worked up wanting someone else to fail? that can't be good for you health.

Scratch you're obsessed with the past.

All I'm worried about is where England are going and the future looks extremely bright. We've been the dominant U20 side in the NH for years now and we're starting to see the fruition of this now.

I don't care that England won a WC 11 years ago or Wales won the 6N last year, I care about what we do now and what we're building too.

Bilt, as Poite showed over the weekend, when someone is repeatedly boring in, despite being warned, giving them some time out is actually required in order to allow the game to flow.

Correct quins, unfortunately as you well know the lines get blurred and sometimes you will find both props get carded as it becomes less clear as to who the guilty party is.

Biltong wrote:Correct quins, unfortunately as you well know the lines get blurred and sometimes you will find both props get carded as it becomes less clear as to who the guilty party is.

or someone gets singled out…..  

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Scratch you're obsessed with the past.

All I'm worried about is where England are going and the future looks extremely bright. We've been the dominant U20 side in the NH for years now and we're starting to see the fruition of this now.

I don't care that England won a WC 11 years ago or Wales won the 6N last year, I care about what we do now and what we're building too.

no i'm not, you are wrong. SCW and many of the England fans re though

I am obsessed with the next game and the future, of wales not england, but of all the world's teams england are the most deluded and their record is the reason

i won't repeat it, don't need to as you know how poor it is

When will the results justify the chat?

bilt, just do the right thing. Ban Scratch til after the weekend. he is boringly hijacking perfectly good threads and its preventing lots of people from posting. the england ireland match thread was great. this thread should be similarly entertaining and respectful, but already it's taken a turn for the worse.

to provide balance, i'm happy for you to ban me til after the matches too.

happy to take one for the team.

As I said above, all behaviour will be monitored and discussed before tomorrow morning.

Every post you talk of the past and records.

Look at the now and the future.

As an English fan I'm happy we're going places. We've got a young side and have beat a strong Wales and Ireland side, the former quite comfortably.

Roll on the the SH teams, that's how you really test where you're at.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Every post you talk of the past and records.

Look at the now and the future.

As an English fan I'm happy we're going places. We've got a young side and have beat a strong Wales and Ireland side, the former quite comfortably.

Roll on the the SH teams, that's how you really test where you're at.

Yes and that is where as a Wales fan i am fed up entirely with our failure to kick on which i believe has a lot to do with Gatland's Lions ambitions.

Scratch.

Why can you not except that England was a far better team on the day.

England are not world beaters/ by any means but we are progressing nicely.

We heard the talk on her some of it from Gatland himself. It will be the Welsh Lions against the English cubs.

Wales are far more experienced than England, welllllllllll at the week end it did not look like it now did it.

England are in with a chance, a slight chance maybe. of winning the 6ns. Will they win it? I don't know. But one thing i do know Wales have no chance of winning this year's 6ns now do they?   

maj

No they aren't but having won it so many times since 2005 it does't matter, we will return next year as we invariably do

btw, go find my post after the england game, first to congratulate england and acknowledge what you have said. better team on the day won

but, i won't sit by and then be subjected to bile vitriol by posters which has followed since then

i will continue to point out england's frailties in the face of posters claiming their brilliance and domination based on the RESULTS of the tournament and the RECORD of england since the last RWC.

There is nothing wrong in that, point is when i do it it gets peoples backs up. England fans won't acknowledge it, that is called arrogance. Now, Saint used to suggest there was an anti Welsh feeling on here that i disagreed with and the manner in which he constantly used it as a cross to bear, i don't subscirbe to that, i think england fans are jealous and frustrated by our record in the 6 nations because sit is so good but because we are so inconsistent in the 6 Nations and world rugby we come in for our fair shared of deserved criticism

Are you taking about the past again Scratch?  

From an English fan if England do win the championship then I want it to be because we out score Ireland by the 50 points.

Given the way the French have played this years championship they dont deserve to come second or third. They have played a grand total of c.50 minutes of rugby the rest has been dross! And if England beat Italy well but not by enough I will be cheering BOD and Ireland on!

The England v Ireland game was the most arse-clenching stuff Ive seen in this comp in yonks. It was brilliant. The full-on  commitment and aggression from both sides was superb. It was a feast.  

Whoever of those 2 win it,  they'll deserve it. England have been the better side overall, imo. They are on their way. And we are breathing down their necks.  2 teams with a realistic shot at RWC2015.

Perspective chaps.  

Believe.

Gibson wrote:The England v Ireland game was the most arse-clenching stuff Ive seen in this comp in yonks. It was brilliant. The full-on  commitment and aggression from both sides was superb. It was a feast.  

Whoever of those 2 win it,  they'll deserve it. England have been the better side overall, imo. They are on their way. And we are breathing down their necks.  2 teams with a realistic shot at RWC2015.

Perspective chaps.  

Believe.

Most concise and accurate reading of the overall situation that I've yet read here.

There is a chance it might be all wrong after this weekend coming...but let's hope the 'breathing down their necks' bit proves true.

Gibson wrote:The England v Ireland game was the most arse-clenching stuff Ive seen in this comp in yonks. It was brilliant. The full-on  commitment and aggression from both sides was superb. It was a feast.  

Whoever of those 2 win it,  they'll deserve it. England have been the better side overall, imo. They are on their way. And we are breathing down their necks.  2 teams with a realistic shot at RWC2015.

Perspective chaps.  

Believe.

  

Gibson wrote:The England v Ireland game was the most arse-clenching stuff Ive seen in this comp in yonks. It was brilliant. The full-on  commitment and aggression from both sides was superb. It was a feast.  

Whoever of those 2 win it,  they'll deserve it. England have been the better side overall, imo. They are on their way. And we are breathing down their necks.  2 teams with a realistic shot at RWC2015.

Perspective chaps.  

Believe.

Everyone else has quoted you so I thought I would join in Gibbo
You are 100% correct though.

Whoever wins this is indeed deserving and both sides are building to become the kind of sides nobody feels comfortable playing. I knew England would be a clearer danger this year when I saw the selections. Young, talented guys with that hunger for selection, you can't go wrong. Ireland have a more settled feel about them and know what they are doing as a team. They have looked confused for far too long. It's all a very positive outlook for both sides and makes for exciting times ahead for both sets of fans.

Gibson wrote:The England v Ireland game was the most arse-clenching stuff Ive seen in this comp in yonks. It was brilliant. The full-on  commitment and aggression from both sides was superb. It was a feast.  

Whoever of those 2 win it,  they'll deserve it. England have been the better side overall, imo. They are on their way. And we are breathing down their necks.  2 teams with a realistic shot at RWC2015.

Perspective chaps.  

Believe.

Totally agree Gibbo, which is why I believe Ireland will do this - although history and to some degree logic points to a routine French dagger through plucky Irish hearts, I feel that if this Ireland side brings anything like the intensity we brought against England, and to some degree the other sides too, that this French team won't be able to respond in kind - not in a physical or technical sense, but mentally - the way England did at home.

If they do they'll have to show a determination and hunger they haven't shown in this years tournament to date.

Well, the news is that Mas is using journalists now as punch bags to build up his reserves of passion.  Two an hour...and he trains on them for six hours a day.

Either he'll be knackered by saturday or he'll be fighting ready to bulldoze Ross, Healy, Best and co into the turf.  Whichever it is, France will be severly lacking in current affairs and sporting news over the next few weeks.