Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread Part 'x'

[monty junior]

First topic message reminder :

It is kind of weird CS that Duty considers us an elite club and the quality of players (that Wenger has signed) and our CL football as the main reasons, but then he considers Wenger a failure. It looks like a logical inconsistency to me. And I can't name 10 clubs in Europe bigger or better than we are.

Bigger - Manchester United, Liverpool, AC Milan
Better - Chelsea, Manchester City, Barcelona, Real Madrid, PSG, Bayern Munich, Dortmund/Napoli.

There we go. The first three have better history and are a "bigger" club in that respect. The other seven are just...better.

Is that why Napoli got knocked of our CL group. Dortmund is nowhere near the team they were earlier in the year when we played in CL in terms of injuries and we split with them. If you really want to measure we have to look at criteria. If it is "better" I disagree certainly with regards to Dortmund and Napoli as of right now or throughout the season. Dortmund is behind Schalke and Leverkusen and neither one of those teams are all that mighty this year. Here are the teams if I am ranking the "better" aspect

1. Bayern
2. real
3. Barca
4. Chelsea
5. PSG
6. Juventus
7. Man City
8. Atleti
9. Arsenal

So Arsenal are in the top 10, even if you would rate Dortmund who is on the skids right now as being better, which I don't. Liverpool would have a fair shout right now at coming in ahead of us. That would still put us in the top 10 in terms of quality.

Dortmund are a fairly comfortable second now and are almost certainly in to the CL quarters. Depends what you regard as elite, for me the word elite is the very very best like Bayern, Real, Barca even Man U, teams who have a history of domestic and European domination. Arsenal are the level below, certainly no disgrace.

[GSC]

God that was some poop keeping

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Here come the Andy Carroll for England supporters

You watch him play a bit and you might agree

[Dolphin Ziggler]

God that was some poop keeping

Weak on the second, shame they dont show his worldie in the first half

[GSC]

Odds the hotel was a brothel?

[Guest]

Here come the Andy Carroll for England supporters

You watch him play a bit and you might agree

Have to admit that I'm a Carroll admirer. I was a Heskey admirer and that got me nothing but flack.

I'm still a Carroll admirer mind. Good player.

Haterz gon' hate bro.

[GSC]

More poop keeping

[GSC]

Not a pen for me. Point blank and was headed to row z

[socal1976]

Great win by Villa this really makes the title race interesting especially if Arsenal and Liverpool win tomorrow. To be fair to Chelsea that second Willian card was harsh and I didn't really see it being a yellow. But Chelsea's attack was anemic all day even before the red card. Delph was absolutely spectacular. Ramires' stomp was pretty damn sick and I wouldn't be surprised if he got a longer suspension. His loss in the next few games will be a loss to Chelsea as I don't think they have a player that brings his pace and energy in that box to box role. Congratulations to Villa though they really played well, fought hard and took their chance.

[Hulking_up]

I still think Liverpool will win easily tomorrow, this united side is awful.

I'm worried about this game. Not sure if a 2 week break helps the rhythm.

[westisbest]

Cry me a feckin river Jose. woooooooooo

Ireland and Villa win.

U cant beat that.



BABY.

[Duty281]

Here come the Andy Carroll for England supporters

You watch him play a bit and you might agree

Have to admit that I'm a Carroll admirer. I was a Heskey admirer and that got me nothing but flack.

I'm still a Carroll admirer mind. Good player.

Haterz gon' hate bro.

There's only one Andy Carroll.

First time I saw him play was, I think, against France in November 2010 in a friendly. He was touted as the new Alan Shearer. And England were awful; truly the worst I've ever seen them play...worse than when they played Northern Ireland, Croatia or Algeria.

Still, he's come on a long way now. I fondly remember that powerful header against Sweden and the celebration of pure relief. Superb footwork, great in the air, can hold the ball up excellently, decent finish - will be a fantastic option off the bench in Brazil.

[The Special Juan]

Similarly here come the Peter Crouch for England supporters

You can't argue with his goals/games ratio for England...

[CFCNick]

Here come the Andy Carroll for England supporters

Charlie Nicholas said Carroll for England on Soccer Saturday.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Big, big day

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Clattenburg is already getting on my jubblies

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Phil Jones has future England captain written all over him

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Sturridge does miss an awful lot of chances

[The Special Juan]

For all Liverpool's possession they've not really done anything. The first 15 minutes were crucial and Liverpool failed to capitalise.

[NickisBHAFC]

Boring game as far.

Yesterday my thoughts.

Fulham good win, still doomed IMO.

Norwich looked terrible, i've been defending them all season, but there midfield looked like a non league team could boss them. I still want them to stay up as i like Hughton.

Villa well played.

Citeh did the job. Hull should of had a penalty though when Fernandino pushed that little pikey to the floor.

Huge win for West Brom. Turning point in there season. Makes that final spot for relegation very interesting.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Lucky pen, Suarez should be booked for demanding the yellow

[hampo17]

Lucky pen, Suarez should be booked for demanding the yellow

Wasn't a lucky pen at all, Rafael thought he'd transferred to the NBA for a split second and should have been booked, very lucky boy.

[The Special Juan]

Rafael is the worst "defender" in the league.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

No he shouldnt, his arm was out and he gets punished with the pen. Its a lucky pen as its just a nothing incident, his hand is out and a flick that he has no control over cos of damn instincts catches him out.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Yeah that really should've been a second yellow for Rafael

[hampo17]

What's he booked Gerrard for there? Won the ball cleanly with that header.

[NickisBHAFC]

I think the ref got that spot on there.

100% a penalty, cause it hits the lads hand. But a yellow would of been very harsh, as it can be argued he didn't do it intently. Ref gave him the benefit of a doubt about the yellow, but the penalty he had no choice.

All Liverpool so far. Good penalty by Stevie G. Ice Cool. Do that in Brazil please.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Jesus christ, booking for everything these days. You really think he wants to intentionally slap the ball in his box?

[NickisBHAFC]

Christ this ref is handing out cards like wedding confetti.

[The Special Juan]

Even I was baying for him to be sent off

[hampo17]

[GSC]

Liverpool have played well but United have been truly awful

[Champagne_Socialist]

I think the ref got that spot on there.

100% a penalty, cause it hits the lads hand. But a yellow would of been very harsh, as it can be argued he didn't do it intently. Ref gave him the benefit of a doubt about the yellow, but the penalty he had no choice.

All Liverpool so far. Good penalty by Stevie G. Ice Cool. Do that in Brazil please.

It is only a handball if it is intentional.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

No it isnt. Not, by the very least, in common sense of refereeing.

[hampo17]

Not our best half by a long way, but we're winning and United didn't really threaten. I'd settle for another 45 minutes like that.

[GSC]

United building up a head of steam in the last 5.

[mystiroakey]

it might not have been your best - but you looked far better.

However if you dont score another , rooney will allways be a threat around the box..

[Champagne_Socialist]

No it isnt. Not, by the very least, in common sense of refereeing.

In Fifa's Laws of the Game 2005, Law 12 says a free-kick or penalty will be awarded if a player "handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)".

A direct free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following three offences:


handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)

http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct.aspx

Deliberate handball is required. What is deliberate is another debate eg defenders arms in an unnatural position, proxmity of the ball when kicked to the defender, could he have moved his hand out of the way, did he move his had towards the ball etc.

Handball has to be intentional and referees basically use recklessness as mens rea for intention.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

So, I'm not wrong really. You were basically being picky over the choice of word. Cos actually, Nick is still right by both of your definitions. We're all right.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

So, I'm not wrong really. You were basically being picky over the choice of word. Cos actually, Nick is still right by both of your definitions. We're all right.

Spot on Dolph

[Born Slippy]

United starting to get going a bit in the last few minutes. RVP looks very out of sorts. Can see Welbeck coming on relatively early in the second half. I'd take off Fellaini as well and bring on Cleverley.

I think the ref got the Rafael decision right. Had to give a penalty but really it wasn't a deliberate handball. Would have been harsh to be sent off.

[hampo17]

This Rafael incident more obvious every time you watch it, he moves his hand to the ball, the ball would have gone underneath his arm because his first movement is to raise his arm, he then decides to bring it back down. That is a yellow every day of the week and twice on a Sunday, except when Mark Clattenburg is in charge.

[Champagne_Socialist]

So, I'm not wrong really. You were basically being picky over the choice of word. Cos actually, Nick is still right by both of your definitions. We're all right.

Well you are wrong as you tried to tell me handball does not have to be intentional when it does. Recklessness is a form of intention not just in football but in common law in the UK.

[GSC]

I'd take RVP off and move Mata central. Doesn't look bothered

[Duty281]

Liverpool in control - get that title bandwagon moving!

And Rafael is rather lucky, in truth.

[hampo17]

So Clattenburg has said had the ball been going in or had that happened anywhere else in the field it would have been a yellow card, this is why the officials get so much abuse.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

So, I'm not wrong really. You were basically being picky over the choice of word. Cos actually, Nick is still right by both of your definitions. We're all right.

Well you are wrong as you tried to tell me handball does not have to be intentional when it does. Recklessness is a form of intention not just in football but in common law in the UK.

If the rule can't truly define the word then no, its quite open to interpretation. What you're saying is someone could jump for a header, jumping with their arms out quite naturally, miss the header but it hits their arm. That would be unintentional by definition of the word. Recklessness thus doesn't apply their as quite naturally do defenders jump.

I'm not gonna continue this, you're just doing what you do everyday on this place. Picking up on anything to be a swine

[hampo17]

Soft one that.

[mystiroakey]

yeah yeah everyone is wrong and everyone is right.. blah blah.

clear penalty though, and liverpool also had another clear one from fellani earlier so justice.

Rafael didnt deserve a yellow- but hell he could have been sent of for the yellow offence before-

oh look another penalty.

[Hulking_up]

2 pens at OT against UTD!
Hell has frozen over!

[hampo17]

I'll take it though

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