Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread Part 'x'

[monty junior]

First topic message reminder :

It is kind of weird CS that Duty considers us an elite club and the quality of players (that Wenger has signed) and our CL football as the main reasons, but then he considers Wenger a failure. It looks like a logical inconsistency to me. And I can't name 10 clubs in Europe bigger or better than we are.

Bigger - Manchester United, Liverpool, AC Milan
Better - Chelsea, Manchester City, Barcelona, Real Madrid, PSG, Bayern Munich, Dortmund/Napoli.

There we go. The first three have better history and are a "bigger" club in that respect. The other seven are just...better.

Is that why Napoli got knocked of our CL group. Dortmund is nowhere near the team they were earlier in the year when we played in CL in terms of injuries and we split with them. If you really want to measure we have to look at criteria. If it is "better" I disagree certainly with regards to Dortmund and Napoli as of right now or throughout the season. Dortmund is behind Schalke and Leverkusen and neither one of those teams are all that mighty this year. Here are the teams if I am ranking the "better" aspect

1. Bayern
2. real
3. Barca
4. Chelsea
5. PSG
6. Juventus
7. Man City
8. Atleti
9. Arsenal

So Arsenal are in the top 10, even if you would rate Dortmund who is on the skids right now as being better, which I don't. Liverpool would have a fair shout right now at coming in ahead of us. That would still put us in the top 10 in terms of quality.

Dortmund are a fairly comfortable second now and are almost certainly in to the CL quarters. Depends what you regard as elite, for me the word elite is the very very best like Bayern, Real, Barca even Man U, teams who have a history of domestic and European domination. Arsenal are the level below, certainly no disgrace.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Mata played wide right is not worth 37 million.

Mata played in behind the striker is, easily.

Moyes needs to use him properly

[Dolphin Ziggler]

RVP is the one who should be looking at himself in the mirror. Welbeck is a better option up there currently, and he makes Rooney and Mata look much better players

[CFCNick]

The PL is not sub par. Liverpool were average today. Without the penalties they probably draw.

[socal1976]

Mata played wide in Spain if I remember from watching him at Valencia.

Ent, you may think this is the worst league but I think it has been the most enjoyable to watch. Can't see how it is awful week in and week out because one team isn't running away with it.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I do think anyone who claimed United were awful winners last year cannot look at any team this year and think things are much better

[Ent]

Have you watched it?

That Tottenham arsenal game was absolutel awful bar a great strike from rosicky.

Just because it is close doesn't mean the quality is good, look at performances in Europe.

If you like an unpredictable competitive league watch the championship- I prefer top quality from the top league.

[Ent]

I do think anyone who claimed United were awful winners last year cannot look at any team this year and think things are much better

It is terrible, half the players in the united Liverpool game couldn't control the ball.

[Ent]

To be fair it was mostly the united players but you get my point.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

The very fact that quite likely we won't get relegated from it tells you all need to know about the quality of it, cos we're like a League one side half the time

[socal1976]

Have you watched it?

That Tottenham arsenal game was absolutel awful bar a great strike from rosicky.

Just because it is close doesn't mean the quality is good, look at performances in Europe.

If you like an unpredictable competitive league watch the championship- I prefer top quality from the top league.

If the league was awful this year it certainly was awful last year when you guys won it with what I thought was a pretty ordinary United title team by what double digit points. If anything I think the league is stronger this season than last and that last year was the worst level of quality I have seen in some time. The league all of sudden didn't get awful in 12 months. You have basically the same team that Ferguson led to a double digit league title finishing 7th.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Its all the money's fault. Think of the players some teams have. But the desperation to stay in that money league has caused such a scramble to stay in.

[socal1976]

I disagree it has nothing to do with money. 5 of the top 7 teams are clearly better than they were last year. MC, chelsea, Arsenal, Everton, and Liverpool. Two of them are worse: Spurs and United. The league's quality doesn't revolve around United's form as big as they are they are one club. And if underachievement in Europe is the standard the PL sides haven't done well in Europe this year and didn't do particularly well last year either.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I was talking more about the lower ranges.

I dont think any of the teams are classic winners. City had the potential to be but their weaknesses have been exposed. The United of last year, playing like they were, would possibly still have won it this year.

[The Special Juan]

I'm still willing to give Moyes until the end of next season but if things haven't picked up then I might start calling for action. If Klopp or Ancelotti become available though, I'd go for if Moyes was still struggling purely because they are better managers.

[The Special Juan]

As for Liverpool, they are by far and away the best team to watch in the PL but I can't help but feel they won't be this good next season. Gerrard is having the type of season Rio was having last year but I doubt he'll have another one.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

I'm still willing to give Moyes until the end of next season but if things haven't picked up then I might start calling for action.  If Klopp or Ancelotti become available though, I'd go for if Moyes was still struggling purely because they are better managers.

For me its pretty clear Utd's board/shareholders or whatever have a choice to make at the end of the season. They either stick by Moyes and back him properly in the transfer market, and make it clear they're backing him.

Or they get rid of Moyes, and go get a top class manager like Klopp.

[The Special Juan]

I'm still willing to give Moyes until the end of next season but if things haven't picked up then I might start calling for action.  If Klopp or Ancelotti become available though, I'd go for if Moyes was still struggling purely because they are better managers.

For me its pretty clear Utd's board/shareholders or whatever have a choice to make at the end of the season. They either stick by Moyes and back him properly in the transfer market, and make it clear they're backing him.

Or they get rid of Moyes, and go get a top class manager like Klopp.

Absolutely. If they really believe he's the man for the job then they have to back him 100%, otherwise there's no point in him being there.

[NickisBHAFC]

Have you watched it?

That Tottenham arsenal game was absolutely awful bar a great strike from rosicky.

Just because it is close doesn't mean the quality is good, look at performances in Europe.

If you like an unpredictable competitive league watch the championship- I prefer top quality from the top league.

Agree with this, from a neutral point of view, the opening 92 seconds was great, really great, a world class goal. Then after just a boring boring afternoon of football. No excitement. Arsenal parking the bus and Tottenham not creating anything.

[mystiroakey]

I feel asleep after 5 mins . Haha- i missed nothing

[Fernando]

[mystiroakey]

The very fact that quite likely we won't get relegated from it tells you all need to know about the quality of it, cos we're like a League one side half the time

I hate to disappoint you mate.. but....... you may go down...  

Fact is the top 10 are top sides- with 4 very good.

the next 10 are very similar to the top 10 in the championship.

however the championship the teams play better football because they are allowed to and dont have to pull the park the bus tactic every other game or in some teams cases every game

[GSC]

I'm not sure about that Myst but the top of the Championship is much more entertaining

[mystiroakey]

because they are allowed to play better footy.

just watch palace last season. and now watch the way they have to play in the PL..

[NickisBHAFC]

Like i said in an earlier post, Norwich are a team i respect and im a big fan of Hughton. But yesterday they just looked a terrible team, the midfield was just so easily over ran it was painful to watch and thats from a neutral point of view, im never really that critical of another side, (only critical on my own rubbish team) Im sure they will be fine but with West Brom getting a big win, Palace, Sunderland all fighting hard. Its going to be interesting for sure.

[mystiroakey]

I would honestly love to see the pl with only 10 teams, then have 4 other pro leagues with a few less teams each

It would create an amazing second division packed full of loads of top clubs and supporters . And the top division would be massive clash after massive clash.

because i find it really sad that certain teams have to play a certain way just to ride the gravy train that is the PL

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Like i said in an earlier post, Norwich are a team i respect and im a big fan of Hughton. But yesterday they just looked a terrible team, the midfield was just so easily over ran it was painful to watch and thats from a neutral point of view, im never really that critical of another side, (only critical on my own rubbish team) Im sure they will be fine but with West Brom getting a big win, Palace, Sunderland all fighting hard. Its going to be interesting for sure.

Nick you realise that's how we've played, for pretty much well all the season barring the odd game?

[NickisBHAFC]

because they are allowed to play better footy.

just watch palace last season. and now watch the way they have to play in the PL..

Whilst i do see where you're coming from mate, i think it can be done the other way round.

Look at West Ham, they didn't play football in a pretty way, they bullied teams and got the points and got the job done and got out of the league. But in the Prem, they have adapted their style and are slowly building something, by playing football the right way, because in the Prem it's easier to do that as you get more time on the ball.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

The very fact that quite likely we won't get relegated from it tells you all need to know about the quality of it, cos we're like a League one side half the time

I hate to disappoint you mate.. but....... you may go down...  

Fact is the top 10 are top sides- with 4 very good.

the next 10 are very similar to the top 10 in the championship.

however the championship the teams play better football because they are allowed to and dont have to pull the park the bus tactic every other game or in some teams cases every game

Oh trust me Mysti I know we might!!! I just like to not think about it too much

[mystiroakey]

Sorry for reminding you- Its just there look like 5 teams fighting like bulldogs trying to stay up. and none of us can predict who that is yet!

2 are pretty clearly down, its that last spot

[GSC]

That's partly because Pulis is in charge Myst. He played the same in the Championship

[mystiroakey]

That's partly because Pulis is in charge Myst. He played the same in the Championship

yes but no other man could do that. Pulis is a PL dog fighting pro. Possibly the best there is. I wouldnt want him in the Championship.. I am happy to keep him on forever if we stay in the Prem(but if i use some foresight , us palace fans would end up like stoke fans come 5 years down the line if we stay up and dont move forward)

[liverbnz]

Norwich's last 4 games are

Liverpool
United
Chelsea
Arsenal

So they need to collect a decent sum from their next 4.

[mystiroakey]

I could just see Norwich staying up final game costing Arsenal the title and sending palace down......

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

I could just see Norwich staying up final game costing Arsenal the title and sending palace down......

Considering my best mate is an Arsenal fan, I'd f*cking love that!

Although I don't think Palace will drop, I think Sunderland are gonna go with Fulham and Cardiff

[NickisBHAFC]

Sunderland is a team who people presumed are safe. If they don't pick up a fair few points in there games in hand, they could be stuffed. Whilst i would love to see Gus man sausage up, i would rather Palace went down. 

Swansea anyone? Really not picking up many points and have a manager with no experience.

[mystiroakey]

I think Swansea have too many good players to go down.

hull may look safe, but i don't think they are.

[GSC]

That's partly because Pulis is in charge Myst. He played the same in the Championship

yes but no other man could do that. Pulis is a PL dog fighting pro. Possibly the best there is. I wouldnt want him in the Championship.. I am happy to keep him on forever if we stay in the Prem(but if i use some foresight , us palace fans would end up like stoke fans come 5 years down the line if we stay up and dont move forward)

Yeah ultimately expectations change. Being plucky underdogs only lasts so long, and when the football remains dire, and away days predictably a waste of time, patience runs out

[NickisBHAFC]

Like i said in an earlier post, Norwich are a team i respect and im a big fan of Hughton. But yesterday they just looked a terrible team, the midfield was just so easily over ran it was painful to watch and thats from a neutral point of view, im never really that critical of another side, (only critical on my own rubbish team) Im sure they will be fine but with West Brom getting a big win, Palace, Sunderland all fighting hard. Its going to be interesting for sure.

Nick you realise that's how we've played, for pretty much well all the season barring the odd game?

Obviously you've had the mare in the odd game e.g. Citeh and Villa. But for most of the season you've just been unlucky and the strikers just haven't' delievered. Obviously you're a fan and im not and therefore you see them a lot more than i do, but that's just from watching MOTD and the live games i have watched on SKY/BT.

[GSC]

The strikers haven't delivered because the service is garbage

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Michu coming back could be big.

I like the Premiership, in fact I love it. Look at Villa yesterday. Sometimes they are so so bad, but yesterday they were on it. See us smash Tottenham at their place, both of those games were full of very good football.

Yet I love watching a team battle. That West Ham game at Chelsea was such an exhilarating 0-0. The way Palace dug in at City. Swansea can play all the sideways passes they want, variation, tempo and grit are beautiful things to watch.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

because they are allowed to play better footy.

just watch palace last season. and now watch the way they have to play in the PL..

Whilst i do see where you're coming from mate, i think it can be done the other way round.

Look at West Ham, they didn't play football in a pretty way, they bullied teams and got the points and got the job done and got out of the league. But in the Prem, they have adapted their style and are slowly building something, by playing football the right way, because in the Prem it's easier to do that as you get more time on the ball.

And for what its worth, that is nonsense.

[NickisBHAFC]

What part lol? Can't be all of it, because you would have to be a bit of biast fan to say West Ham played attractive football in the Championship. 

Fair enough it could be you don't think they don't play good football in the Prem.

But 100% its easier to play in the Prem than the championship, as retired footballers have said.

[Ent]

There are a lot of terrible pl sides currently, can't even do the basics.

Won't be a loss whoever goes down.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

The strikers haven't delivered because the service is garbage

And they're left isolated for 90 minutes week in week out

When you're not scoring week in week out for well over a year its not luck. Its cos your manager doesn't understand how to get you scoring

And its not the odd mare, its a continual mare, broken up by the odd win which papers over the cracks short term and has left us with a woeful manager long term

Vented

[mystiroakey]

Are you talking about retired pros from yoyo teams?

or players that are a bit light weight but have skills.

messi would be in traction within weeks of playing in the champs

[GSC]

Championship players wouldn't get within 10 yards of Messi

[mystiroakey]

They would get so annoyed they would throw there boots at his head mate.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszone/share?i=0337pv

Look at that. At home against Stoke we've managed to get only one pass, one pass into Van Wolfswinkel inside or even threatening the 18 yard box. AND THAT WAS FROM A CORNER

You could put Aguero up front for us and he wouldn't get near 15 goals in a season

[Dolphin Ziggler]

What part lol? Can't be all of it, because you would have to be a bit of biast fan to say West Ham played attractive football in the Championship. 

Fair enough it could be you don't think they don't play good football in the Prem.

But 100% its easier to play in the Prem than the championship, as retired footballers have said.

We played awful stuff at times, but youve got the trip to your place as a view of that. We dug in and did you, plain and simple, made you look like school kids. Ripped you a part at our place though. What Sam has done is made us solid as hell when we're playing bad, and for context we have never been that.

[mystiroakey]

This season you had that spell were you were getting battered due to lacking in squad depth. West ham are a decent playing side when your first team is out..

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