Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread Part 'x'

by monty junior Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:27 pm

First topic message reminder :

socal1976 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
socal1976 wrote:It is kind of weird CS that Duty considers us an elite club and the quality of players (that Wenger has signed) and our CL football as the main reasons, but then he considers Wenger a failure. It looks like a logical inconsistency to me. And I can't name 10 clubs in Europe bigger or better than we are.

Bigger - Manchester United, Liverpool, AC Milan
Better - Chelsea, Manchester City, Barcelona, Real Madrid, PSG, Bayern Munich, Dortmund/Napoli.

There we go. The first three have better history and are a "bigger" club in that respect. The other seven are just...better.

Is that why Napoli got knocked of our CL group. Dortmund is nowhere near the team they were earlier in the year when we played in CL in terms of injuries and we split with them. If you really want to measure we have to look at criteria. If it is "better" I disagree certainly with regards to Dortmund and Napoli as of right now or throughout the season. Dortmund is behind Schalke and Leverkusen and neither one of those teams are all that mighty this year. Here are the teams if I am ranking the "better" aspect

1. Bayern
2. real
3. Barca
4. Chelsea
5. PSG
6. Juventus
7. Man City
8. Atleti
9. Arsenal

So Arsenal are in the top 10, even if you would rate Dortmund who is on the skids right now as being better, which I don't. Liverpool would have a fair shout right now at coming in ahead of us. That would still put us in the top 10 in terms of quality.

Dortmund are a fairly comfortable second now and are almost certainly in to the CL quarters. Depends what you regard as elite, for me the word elite is the very very best like Bayern, Real, Barca even Man U, teams who have a history of domestic and European domination. Arsenal are the level below, certainly no disgrace.

by The Fourth Lion Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:24 pm

compelling and rich wrote:bad decision to get the wrong person but like it matters, game was done and dusted either way

Quite clearly, Andre Marriner has made a howler and got the wrong man. Watching the game on BT, they have been showing a playback where Oxlade-Chamberlain goes to the referee and tells him that he (OC) was the guilty party. There was a time when the referee would take such an admission as genuine and correct his mistake. Sadly, those days are gone and the reputation of footballers has sunk to such a level that the official simply won't listen.... and with good reason. Football teams and players will often try to deceive a referee if they think there may be some advantage to be gained from it. Quite what advantage they might gain from sacrificing Oxlade-C for Gibbs I cannot imagine, but modern footballers cannot be trusted to be honest and truthful in any given situation and therefore referees must ignore any and all protestations. Even genuine ones.

Seeing the incident replayed on TV, as soon as the handball occurred, a crowd of players swarmed around the referee who probably lost sight of the offender, and in the resultant confusion, simply thought it was Gibbs who had handled the ball and gave the card accordingly.

There is no doubt that a red card was the correct call, it is just unfortunate that the wrong player was punished. And it says a lot for the dreadful reputation of footballers that even when a player does do the right thing and 'fesses up, he simply can't be believed.

I'm quite sure the red card for Gibbs will be rescinded. Oxlade-C may be given some retrospective punishment by the FA and Andre Marriner will have to explain his actions to the FA's refereeing panel.

In my personal opinion, it's really not such a big deal. Arsenal are, quite rightly, a man down, and if anything, they are better off in the game losing a defender than one of their most creative midfield players at a time when they need to find some goals. The error is, I'm sure, a genuine one and the FA will deal with that. There will be no long term damage to Gibbs' disciplinary record as the card will surely be wiped off the record.

It shouldn't merit more than a brief mention in the final result headlines. But I bet it goes further than that.

by GSC Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:26 pm

Ultimately the ref has to trust his decision there.

by Born Slippy Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:28 pm

Arguably shouldn't have been a sending off as it surely wasn't denying a goal scoring opportunity? Would love to know who made the decision as neither the ref or linesman appeared to spot the handball.

4-0 now - nice goal but again dire defending.

by GSC Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:28 pm

Keep going Chelsea >_>

by mystiroakey Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:28 pm

no i went draw..and admitted my accy was crazy

by GSC Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:32 pm

If you want to cry Arsenal fans, I'm in the alcohol section of Tescos

by Guest Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:35 pm

GSC wrote:If you want to cry Arsenal fans, I'm in the alcohol section of Tescos

Always had you down as a Sainsburys man G.

by GSC Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:37 pm

Tescos is downhill

by mystiroakey Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:37 pm

You need to be in the pharmacist section GSC. Alchoal cant cure this.. Get the methodone

by Born Slippy Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:39 pm

BT overplaying the wrong man decision. Understandable error and not overly important in the scheme of the game. Only question for me is whether it should have actually been a red.

by compelling and rich Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:40 pm

The Fourth Lion wrote:
compelling and rich wrote:bad decision to get the wrong person but like it matters, game was done and dusted either way

Quite clearly, Andre Marriner has made a howler and got the wrong man. Watching the game on BT, they have been showing a playback where Oxlade-Chamberlain goes to the referee and tells him that he (OC) was the guilty party. There was a time when the referee would take such an admission as genuine and correct his mistake. Sadly, those days are gone and the reputation of footballers has sunk to such a level that the official simply won't listen.... and with good reason. Football teams and players will often try to deceive a referee if they think there may be some advantage to be gained from it. Quite what advantage they might gain from sacrificing Oxlade-C for Gibbs I cannot imagine, but modern footballers cannot be trusted to be honest and truthful in any given situation and therefore referees must ignore any and all protestations. Even genuine ones.

Seeing the incident replayed on TV, as soon as the handball occurred, a crowd of players swarmed around the referee who probably lost sight of the offender, and in the resultant confusion, simply thought it was Gibbs who had handled the ball and gave the card accordingly.

There is no doubt that a red card was the correct call, it is just unfortunate that the wrong player was punished. And it says a lot for the dreadful reputation of footballers that even when a player does do the right thing and 'fesses up, he simply can't be believed.

I'm quite sure the red card for Gibbs will be rescinded. Oxlade-C may be given some retrospective punishment by the FA and Andre Marriner will have to explain his actions to the FA's refereeing panel.

In my personal opinion, it's really not such a big deal. Arsenal are, quite rightly, a man down, and if anything, they are better off in the game losing a defender than one of their most creative midfield players at a time when they need to find some goals. The error is, I'm sure, a genuine one and the FA will deal with that. There will be no long term damage to Gibbs' disciplinary record as the card will surely be wiped off the record.

It shouldn't merit more than a brief mention in the final result headlines. But I bet it goes further than that.

agreed fourth, the way BT are going on about it you'd think that decision is the reason there 4-0 down. he made a mistake get on with it. if i was a ref i wouldnt trust footballers these days if they were telling you it i was me, imagine if it was someone like Suarez saying it

i bet wenger saw this one, only took 1000 games! Laugh

by GSC Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:41 pm

Could be worse

I mean it will be shortly

by compelling and rich Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:43 pm

Born Slippy wrote:BT overplaying the wrong man decision. Understandable error and not overly important in the scheme of the game. Only question for me is whether it should have actually been a red.

for me it was, it was deliberate handball. it looked like it was going wide but we were denied the change of knowing for sure because of what he did. it could have hit the post and gone in or deflected right out to a chelsea player etc. you cant handball it on the line on purpose and stay on for me even if it was going wide, clearly ox didnt know that when he did it

by GSC Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:44 pm

by mystiroakey Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:46 pm

how can anyone overplay sending off the wrong man.

its insane not to. Ox even told the ref it was him..

Not saying this has cost arsernal the game- but the ref has lost his marbles. Socals love of arsernal and hate of english refs is going to cause an earthquake in Southern Cali!!!

by Born Slippy Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:47 pm

It's clear it was going wide, albeit obviously he didn't know that. By the letter of the law I would say it can't be a red card. Be interesting to see how the situation gets resolved. Gibbs will have to get let off but might Arsenal also say Ox should not be punished as all he did was deliberately handball - a yellow card offence.

by compelling and rich Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:48 pm

im sure arsenal fans will say this is prove of a conspiracy against them, and that if they had fair refs they would have won the title picard

by sportform Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:48 pm

If the referee had an assistant who watched the game on a monitor with the aid of replays, the matter would have been cleared up in seconds.

by GSC Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:50 pm

sportform wrote:If the referee had an assistant who watched the game on a monitor with the aid of replays, the matter would have been cleared up in seconds.

Yeah but those seconds would drastically slow down the game

by mystiroakey Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:50 pm

the ref needs to understand that if someone owns up to doing it he needs to look into it a little bit further and ask other players etc and get to the bottom of it..

The ref isnt stupid(sorry he clearly is) - arsernal would prefer ox on and gibbs off in this situation when you need goals to give you any chance

by compelling and rich Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:55 pm

sportform wrote:If the referee had an assistant who watched the game on a monitor with the aid of replays, the matter would have been cleared up in seconds.

what if ox handball put it back into play, then arsenal broke and scored/ or kept in play for the next 5 minutes without it going out? the ref cant stop play for something he may not have seen. do you go back after 5 minutes? if so games could go on for a fair bit of time. what if arsenal were breaking and would have scored but the ref decided to take a look and stopped play costing arsenal a goal on the break?

stopping and reviewing works in rugby because its a territory game, you either make it to that line or you dont and the play is stopped. football has a lot more grey areas and is generally a lot more flowing than rugby

by compelling and rich Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:57 pm

mystiroakey wrote:the ref needs to understand that if someone owns up to doing it he needs to look into it a little bit further and ask other players etc and get to the bottom of it..

The ref isnt stupid(sorry he clearly is) - arsernal would prefer ox on and gibbs off in this situation when you need goals to give you any chance

rubbish, premiership players spend the majority of the game trying to con refs by going down easy/diving/pressuring/arguing, so all of sudden you have to trust them?

by mystiroakey Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:59 pm

yep agreed compelling-

But for me tech would still work

It needs to be real time vid refs updating the onfield real time so we dont need to have unwanted stoppages- but when something is clearly wrong it can within a split second be rectified

by mystiroakey Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:01 pm

compelling and rich wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:the ref needs to understand that if someone owns up to doing it he needs to look into it a little bit further and ask other players etc and get to the bottom of it..

The ref isnt stupid(sorry he clearly is) - arsernal would prefer ox on and gibbs off in this situation when you need goals to give you any chance

rubbish, premiership players spend the majority of the game trying to con refs by going down easy/diving/pressuring/arguing, so all of sudden you have to trust them?

its not rubbish -its clear as day the ref messed up and you cant defend him on it. If you cant work out the difference between being honest that is going to cost your team rather than aid your team then you are as bad as the ref. In this case it is very belivable. its not henderson saying it was him doing it instead of suraez and he was back in his own half. You and the refs need to use common sense on this

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:02 pm

Arsenal bottle it. Copy and paste this as many times across the years as necessary

by GSC Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:02 pm

The game was already stopped

by The Special Juan Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:03 pm

How can a player who's scored 20 goals this season and had 8 assists be so hated by everyone?

by mystiroakey Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:04 pm

The Special Juan wrote:How can a player who's scored 20 goals this season and had 8 assists be so hated by everyone?

who is hated?

by The Special Juan Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:05 pm

Giroud.

by mystiroakey Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:05 pm

great cricket game by the way lads- Ali has gone nuts!

by mystiroakey Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:06 pm

The Special Juan wrote:Giroud.

has he really scored that many- good lad..Its only John that hates him though right!

by CFCNick Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:07 pm

GSC wrote:
sportform wrote:If the referee had an assistant who watched the game on a monitor with the aid of replays, the matter would have been cleared up in seconds.
Yeah but those seconds would drastically slow down the game

The 4th official saw it on tv in the tunnel area but by the (FA or PL) laws of the game he isn't allowed to tell the ref.

by The Special Juan Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:07 pm

Yeah 12 in the PL, 3 in the FA Cup, 2 in the CL and 2 for France. He's hated away from here - Arsenal fans appear not to like him and no one else seems to rate him.

by mystiroakey Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:09 pm

I dont really rate him. But he is deffo a good player. Not many dispute that. Its just when you look at other top teams he doesnt rival the rvps, rooneys, sturridges, suraezs etc.

but then he certainly rivals chelseas strikeforce!!

by compelling and rich Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:10 pm

mystiroakey wrote:yep agreed compelling-

But for me tech would still work

It needs to be real time vid refs updating the onfield real time so we dont need to have unwanted stoppages- but when something is clearly wrong it can within a split second be rectified

real time would work better but your going down a slippery slope there, what does the video judge on, eventually teams would be crying out for every little tiny decision like a small foul leading up to goal to be judged on. have to remember a lot of fouls are subjective. what one ref may think is a foul the video ref may not or vice versa

refs have a difficult job and will make mistakes just like many of the players do week in week out, its been this way since football has been created. its all part of the game we love. why change it? what your suggesting would totally change the game we know

by mystiroakey Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:12 pm

compelling and rich wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:yep agreed compelling-

But for me tech would still work

It needs to be real time vid refs updating the onfield real time so we dont need to have unwanted stoppages- but when something is clearly wrong it can within a split second be rectified

real time would work better but your going down a slippery slope there, what does the video judge on, eventually teams would be crying out for every little tiny decision like a small foul leading up to goal to be judged on. have to remember a lot of fouls are subjective. what one ref may think is a foul the video ref may not or vice versa

refs have a difficult job and will make mistakes just like many of the players do week in week out, its been this way since football has been created. its all part of the game we love. why change it? what your suggesting would totally change the game we know

we changed cricket- we changed tennis, we changed rugby- all are better for it.

ok football is more flowing therefore needs a realtime system- but done correctly it would make sense and make the game better

by The Special Juan Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:15 pm

Ugh this is like seeing a fat person stuck in a chair - tragic but you can't look away.

by Hulking_up Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:17 pm

A top 4 team should not be losing to another top 4 team by this margin.
Embarassing.

by GSC Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:17 pm

Well thank **** thats over. Wonder what Malkys up to?

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:18 pm

And I'm meant to think Szczesny is in the best 5 keepers in the league? Doesnt make my top ten.

This feels like it sums up Wenger's reign. Goals, some great football, a red card for Arsenal and crumbling against Chelsea.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:18 pm

GSC wrote:Well thank **** thats over. Wonder what Malkys up to?

He's round Nick's right now waiting for 'Arry to cum so he can have a go

by mystiroakey Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:18 pm

Mourinhio mind feicked wenger.

game set and match on his 1000'th game.

by compelling and rich Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:20 pm

cricket/tennis/rugby all have stopping points which enable reviews easily. the video review/hawk eye were brought into the existing rules regards stoppages they didnt change them. what your suggesting is to take control from the on field ref something which has always been a big key in football. linesmans/5/6 offical are all there purely to assist the ref, in the end it always the refs choice

by The Special Juan Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:21 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
GSC wrote:Well thank **** thats over. Wonder what Malkys up to?

He's round Nick's right now waiting for 'Arry to cum so he can have a go

Is that a new porno?

by compelling and rich Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:23 pm

arsenal showing a total lack of versatility here, at 3-0 down most teams would just shut up shot and protect there goal difference. arsenal inability to play any other way than there attacking way being shown up. title winnings teams can change

by GSC Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:24 pm

Steve Clarke have a prior engagement?

by CFCNick Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:25 pm

@BluesChronicle: Chelsea fans sing: "We'll draw you a map, we'll draw you a map, Wembley Stadium - we'll draw you a map!"

@BluesChronicle: Arsenal's record defeat was the 8-0 loss at Loughborough in the old Second Division in 1896.

by mystiroakey Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:26 pm

compelling and rich wrote:cricket/tennis/rugby all have stopping points which enable reviews easily. the video review/hawk eye were brought into the existing rules regards stoppages they didnt change them. what your suggesting is to take control from the on field ref something which has always been a big key in football. linesmans/5/6 offical are all there purely to assist the ref, in the end it always the refs choice

what i am suggesting is the way forward.

the other sports have been changed for the better and so can football- but in a different way.

by compelling and rich Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:30 pm

mystiroakey wrote:
compelling and rich wrote:cricket/tennis/rugby all have stopping points which enable reviews easily. the video review/hawk eye were brought into the existing rules regards stoppages they didnt change them. what your suggesting is to take control from the on field ref something which has always been a big key in football. linesmans/5/6 offical are all there purely to assist the ref, in the end it always the refs choice

what i am suggesting is the way forward.

the other sports have been changed for the better and so can football- but in a different way.

wont happen mate, look how long it took to bring in goal line technology something which is easy and very clear cut. what your suggesting brings far too many grey areas and far too much of a radical change that the governing bodies will never go for it

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:35 pm

GSC wrote:Steve Clarke have a prior engagement?

He's just zipping up

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