The Triple Crown Appreciation Thread

[Scrumpy]

First topic message reminder :

Firstly well played Ireland, 2014 6nations champs.

But boy we were close to taking it at the end, oh well!

so another 6nations draws to an end and once again no cigar for England but I'm happy, why you may ask rugby fans shouldn't celebrate 2nd place I've been told, but I disagree because I feel optimistic about England's future, we have a squad with genuine contenders for starting places SL has turned us from NH chumps into potential champs. Yes yes yes we should have just won the slam but this is a young squad that seem to learn every game they play, we have players with a few caps under their belts that very well may be replaced by injured players coming back into the team but they have proved that if required they can step up to the top level.

Well done England and SL & Co

Lets not forget we have won the Triple Crown!  

[WELL-PAST-IT]

Bedford,

Both props, AJ has not adapted well this year and offers little about the field. GJ offers a lot but can't scrummage properly and will not get better by the RWC.

Blind side flanker, you have the modern equivalent of Joe Worsley, great at scything people down, but again offers not a lot else although he is starting to carry.

Scrum half, no one I have seen this year has been, in my opinion up to scratch (not the poster here) Phillips is too slow and has such a poor pass that the 10 is always under pressure unless you are getting front foot ball, which you don't get as often as in past years.

Fly half, Priestland is too inconsistent and I am not sure Biggar has the temperament or the defensive game. I could be wrong about Biggar.

That is five. In my opinion Roberts, great player that he is, needs to expand his game, he used to be a lot more dexterous than he plays now, drawing people and popping passes before the contact.

1/2P, is a great player but needs to be allowed to play his natural game.

England's and Ireland's success this year, if you call it that has been built on the back of the whole pack being able to do most things well and some very well. England locks are like two more back rowers. Irelands back row are like locks when they need to be and centres when they have the ball. The sum of the whole is greater than the individuals in both packs.

I think that Wales can be and will be a force again in the 6N and the world (don't tell my assistant I said that) with some of the younger players they have, but they might have to go through a couple of years of consolidation. Unlike England that had to rebuild virtually the whole team from scratch...............that name again.

I think this sounds a bit condescending, but I am not trying to be.

[Notch]

Yeah and I'm pretty sure a moderator shouldn't be posting that sorta stuff about other posters... Looks as if it's just going to encourage an even bigger stir. I can't believe England fans can get so wound up about reality after all the tedious drivel they constantly post about the team situated east of Offa's dyke.

Saint, you can't keep getting wound up by posters having a different opinion to you. It's silly and childish. Just relax and enjoy the superb win you had today instead of trying to pick fights over a game that done and gone   

I was actually alluding to part of your red penned post. I think it's obvious that England fans are getting wound up by my topic related posts and are therefore resorting to insults. I think that's quite obvious. Also, if Wales fans talk about the shoulda done this we get called arrogant. The tournament is over and the to me the top 3 reflects who have been the best in the NH since 2011.

As I've said the insults are not acceptable... I've issued a general telling off for that. But this is a very strange and one-eyed view of things that you are putting forward, and you can't get angry because people think that and point it out in response to your posts. I don't even know what your last sentence means there.

This is a site where people of many different backgrounds and many different opinions gather, and if you're a bit myopic and one-sided in your views, well- people are going to call you one-sided and myopic. Now I've said this and I'll say it again to everyone. Please do not insult The Saint. Everyone has the right to express their views without insults being thrown at them. But I'd wager if you made more of an effort to be even-handed and fair to all parties people wouldn't feel the need to pull you up on some of the things you post. Because to be honest it comes across as sour grapes. There's no rule against sour grapes, but other posters don't necessarily find it endearing either. So there's no real issue here so long as people leave out the personal stuff.

[Duty281]

Saint - I have politely tried to treat you as someone who isn't a wum.

But you clearly are with your "everyone is against Wales" mentality, and constant anti-English posts (no one on here has claimed England are the best in the world). It's boring, it's pathetic and it's childish.

If you are wumming, then do carry on as the moderating team don't do anything about wums on here, apart from get the non-threatening red pen out.

If you're not trying to, and I sincerely hope that's the case, please reign it in. It would show yourself in a better light, after all.

[bedfordwelsh]

Well past it

Agree on all bar Lydiate what he does he does extremely well which allows Faleatu and Warburton to do their job.

Though like you am unsure about 10, Biggar should at least be given the same amount of leeway that Priestland has had before ditching him.

We have players there to take over from Jenkins and Jones and I hope we see some of them coming through soon.

Williams showed today that we have another option to Halfpenny at XV and maybe Leigh should now be left to battle for a wing slot.

[Scrumpy]

Can we stay on topic!

Gethin still can't scrummage btw, hence why he was subbed before the Ref got his card out, time to put him out of his misery!

He is well past it!

[WELL-PAST-IT]

Forget the first test. It shows that NZ are worried that they had to pull such a stunt. It also shows how stupid the RFU are to agree to it.

 A stunt????  But wasnt the super xv fixture list in place (Oct 2013) before the England fixtures were set? or do you know something that we dont?

My apologies if I am wrong, but I was under the belief that NZ requested the fixture moved forward a week which resulted in the first choice England side is stripped of about 8-10 of it's first choice players due to the Premiership Final dates. Likely to be Saints v Sarries at the moment, about 10 players in the 23. Hence my comment about the RFU agreeing to the change.

[mystiroakey]

Saint isn't a wum. He is a passionate Welshman that looks at wins(6 nations) as a measure of success. So from that pov. England haven't actually moved forward.

We are building to a rwc win. That is my goal and people may think I am abit delusional but if we don't win with the crop and depth we have in 2015 or 2019 . I will say it's all for nothing.

But then there are also other measures of success. With the kiwis it's about overall win percentage against all comers. For France ,england ,aus and SA it's about world cups . For some it's only really about how many players you field in the lions or 6 nations wins\slams.

[nobbled]

I think it would be dangerous to evaluate Williams on today's performance against 14 Scots in poor form.
He may be great - but today wouldn't prove it.
Having said that I rate Halfpenny very highly and I'm sure he'd perform in either position.

[Notch]

England have moved forward mystic. But yes, the next step is silverware. It has to be.

I dunno if it's the best thing with the World Cup being next year, because there's a danger the Six Nations gets overshadowed. England should be aiming for a championship win to catapult them on to further glory and it's no good saying it'll be forgotten if they do well in the World Cup a few months later. They've blooded their squad now, after the summer and the autumn there will be no new players to come in probably so it's got to be about winning two trophies next year.

Of course they won't because Ireland will beat you in Dublin but thats a different thread!

[The Saint]

We are building to a rwc win. That is my goal and people may think I am abit delusional but if we don't  win with the crop and depth we have in 2015 or 2019 . I will say it's all for nothing.

But that's my whole point though. You all claimed that Johnson's England were building for a RWC when they weren't doing that well in the 'build-up.' And when it came to the RWC you were disappointed. I see the England of the Lancaster era in a stagnant position so I think it's pretty arrogant to be dismissing everything as a blip when you lost the championship to a better team.

[Scrumpy]

The triple crown is silverware!


Saint England won the 6 nations in 2011 I'd say that was doing ok!

[aucklandlaurie]

Forget the first test. It shows that NZ are worried that they had to pull such a stunt. It also shows how stupid the RFU are to agree to it.

 A stunt????  But wasnt the super xv fixture list in place (Oct 2013) before the England fixtures were set? or do you know something that we dont?

My apologies if I am wrong, but I was under the belief that NZ requested the fixture moved forward a week which resulted in the first choice England side is stripped of about 8-10 of it's first choice players due to the Premiership Final dates. Likely to be Saints v Sarries at the moment, about 10 players in the 23. Hence my comment about the RFU agreeing to the change.

I never knew that New Zealand made any such request, in fact if we had, the media down here would have been all over it.

At all times England were going to bring a squad of up to 40 players, and part of that was because Lancaster understood that he would have some players unavailable for the first test, in fact every one understood that all along.

[mystiroakey]

It's not arrogance though saint. We have had 3 finals and won 1.

The next one is also at home.

Our goal is the rwc. If we lose that we lose it and we have failed. There is no arrogance here though.. just fans talking about the way forward. Chances are we will lose. But I am thinking a good crop now could really push in 2019..

You need to understand that there is no intentional arrogance when talking up our team . And no one has Said we are the best.

When you and other posters misquote in that way , it winds me and clearly many others up no end

[The Saint]

The triple crown is silverware!


Saint England won the 6 nations in 2011 I'd say that was doing ok!

I'm sure I said well done on the triple crown win somewhere in here?

The 'build-up' was more than just one year though. And you miss the point. You supposedly build for a RWC and you end up being disappointed with how the team faired in the tournament. So maybe it's just a case of you're not building for anything, you're just not as good as some other teams?

[Scrumpy]

Since when has believing in your team been a crime?

I'm just glad England have moved forward under SL.

[The Saint]

It's not arrogance though saint. We have had 3 finals and won 1.

The next one is also at home.

Our goal is the rwc. If we lose that we lose it and we have failed. There is no arrogance here though.. just fans talking about the way forward.  Chances are we will lose. But I am thinking a good crop now could really push in 2019..

You need to understand that there is no intentional arrogance when talking up our team . And no one has Said we are the best.

When you and other posters misquote in that way , it winds me and clearly many others up no end

Well if that stat is relevant then surely the fact that you haven't won a world cup on home soil is also relevant, meaning you don't have a chance in 2015. Or did I completely miss your point?

I hardly ever see England fans gracefully accept defeat and the fact they keep playing this 'Next RWC development' each year surely backs this up, if only slightly, as I only ever happen to meet England fans with both feet firmly on the ground. Lancaster put out a different team when he took over, and has rotated quite a lot whether the reason be form or injury. What makes you believe he'll stick with the current team up to 2015? What makes you believe the next coach will stick with this good crop in 2019?

Yeah I would agree with you there. You don't happen to get wound up when people use headline misquotations as a stick to beat Wales though, do you? And for the record I haven't misquoted anything, why would I when I agree with your point.

[mystiroakey]

Saint. I haven't read one post from one English rugby fan that has ever said on this site we are the best. Yet you have mentioned it on here.

[Scrumpy]

It's not arrogance though saint. We have had 3 finals and won 1.

The next one is also at home.

Our goal is the rwc. If we lose that we lose it and we have failed. There is no arrogance here though.. just fans talking about the way forward.  Chances are we will lose. But I am thinking a good crop now could really push in 2019..

You need to understand that there is no intentional arrogance when talking up our team . And no one has Said we are the best.

When you and other posters misquote in that way , it winds me and clearly many others up no end

Well if that stat is relevant then surely the fact that you haven't won a world cup on home soil is also relevant, meaning you don't have a chance in 2015. Or did I completely miss your point?

I hardly ever see England fans gracefully accept defeat and the fact they keep playing this 'Next RWC development' each year surely backs this up, if only slightly, as I only ever happen to meet England fans with both feet firmly on the ground. Lancaster put out a different team when he took over, and has rotated quite a lot whether the reason be form or injury. What makes you believe he'll stick with the current team up to 2015? What makes you believe the next coach will stick with this good crop in 2019?

Yeah I would agree with you there. You don't happen to get wound up when people use headline misquotations as a stick to beat Wales though, do you? And for the record I haven't misquoted anything, why would I when I agree with your point.

Why should England fans accept defeat?

I'm sure NZ fans don't accept defeat, why aren't you hounding them with you insightful views!

We've been to the top, we've tasted it and we like it and now we want some more, nothing wrong with that I'm sure you'll be the same if you ever get there.  

[The Saint]

Well for a start Scrumpy....and this is glaringly obvious, you were defeated in the championship. Only Gatlandball can win championships. Lancaster should move Tuilagi to wing and get England to play like that.

NZ rugby has nothing to do with this post. But just to correct you, they didn't actually taste defeat in the recent season .

As I've also alluded to today, I'm disappointed in not finishing 1st (our regular 6N position). You lot are cheering about finishing 2nd . 

[mystiroakey]

Cheering lol. No we are just not bothered about losing to Ireland and all have congratulated them on there win.

We lost the tourney in the first game and am now back on a 4 win streak playing the most expansive rugby we have played for a decade.

[Scrumpy]

Errr I think every rugby fan knows that NZ have tasted defeat on a number of high profile occasions.

But your right NZ have little to do with this thread, just like wales have nothing to do with this thread, why did you bring them up again?  They are irrelevant in this thread.

Apart from us beating you and winning the triple crown  

[Scrumpy]

And what a nice win it was too

Men against boys.

[The Saint]

WELL-PAST-IT, another well known Wales-obsessor actually brought Wales into this.

Mysti, England certainly played more expansive this tournament. I think that's down to having good half-backs (hopefully a settled pairing for you) and form centre's. 12trees played the extra play-maker quite well, does he no longer play fly-half? Also, if your midfield are big like 12trees and Burrell then teams will find it difficult to crash through them. I don't understand all the hype about Sam Burgess when you have the incumbent 3 centre's that were on show today.

[Scratch]

England have progressed more in this tournament than anyone else. They look great and with that pool of players i expect lots from then in NZ.   

The Crown must feel good after the years wandering in the Gobi.  

France promised much too, then broke that promise, then promised to, then flopped.  

Ireland, bar 20 minutes of English domination, were most consistent and deserved their win.  

Italy, meh. Stagnant.   

Scotland, nooooooo! SJ is gone   

Wales, WTF? But still 3rd apparently is worth celebrating as much as 2nd is so   

But England....2nd again, another squandered opportunity...of course your revisionists will argue that consistency is what counts, we all know that is a huge smelly pile of BS though.

what will it take for you to close out these tournaments and Win them?

[Poorfour]

Lasy year, England came within 80 minutes of a grand slam. This time it was 90 seconds. That's how much progress has been made.

[ME-109]

Lasy year, England came within 80 minutes of a grand slam. This time it was 90 seconds. That's how much progress has been made.

You know when Ireland nearly won championships over the last 10 - 14 years nobody thought of it in terms of progress or stuff like that. England lost end of story am sure that with a few homer refs next year and stuff like that you might at least get to the semis in the world cup...

[Scratch]

Lasy year, England came within 80 minutes of a grand slam. This time it was 90 seconds. That's how much progress has been made.

Are you saying that is progress?

[ME-109]

Huzzah...England won the triple crown...well done...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[doctor_grey]

Am I happy England won out after the debacle against France?  Of course.  Am I glad England beat the original 4 Nations teams?  Sure.  But England lost the Six Nations in the last few minutes of that France match when they failed to defend the lead.  And that is the story.    
If England really want to be considered with New Zealand and South Africa they must close out every match like that France match.   They did indeed defend their lead when they beat Ireland, so maybe that is progress.  But I think this clearly illustrates what England need to do to get to that next level and hopefully, stay there.

[Scratch]

If Phil Vickery wasn't injured they would have won the Championship

[blackcanelion]

Congratulations England. No 6 nations, but a good performance. This is the team I think that has come out of the tournament the strongest. That's not to downgrade Ireland.s great win. It's more a reflection of a very solid team that is improving in all facets of their game. There's no doubt they are a good side. I like that they have really started to improve their attack structures. Obviously they can improve, but Lancaster has to be quietly satisfied right at the moment.

[majesticimperialman]

England did well to win the triple crown this year and was very unlucky not to get the Grand Slam. But that is the French for you, they can turn a game in an instant.

What ever happend to the reigning 6ns champions this year? What was it a lions hangover? fatigue? or was it a dose of complacency? Or was it the fact that their best scrumaging props got a dose of reallity?( find out they was cheating)

Ireland did very well this year and well done to them,.

[mystiroakey]

Lets not blame the french for capitalising on our mistakes last 10 mins Maj..

We undid ourselves..

But that was 5 games ago. You learn by your mistakes and SL and the team certainly took the positive from the negative in the next few games v Ireland and wales - where we didnt allow the other team back in- and both teams are better

[doctor_grey]

I like to see all our teams do well.  For me I suppose that goes back to the discussion about being a Brit before being English.  Ireland are good. Wales will bounce back, I have no real doubts.  Scotland is a mess and need some real fresh thinking at the top of their structure, although I understand that some new ideas are being implemented now.  

But as I was raised an England supporter I want to see England end up on top.  I am not fussed about coming second due to points differential.  We had the same record as Ireland.  I don't like points differential as a decider because it forced England (and others in the past) into the lose-lose scenario of trying to run up the score against Italy.  For me that is not very Rugby, not consistent with the Rugby values we try to instill in our kids, if you get my drift.  

I do see this England team improving and are generally happy where we are.

[Rugby Fan]

A stunt????  But wasnt the super xv fixture list in place (Oct 2013) before the England fixtures were set? or do you know something that we dont?

The purpose of the international window is to avoid a clash with club fixtures. The Aviva, Rabo and Top14 finals are on the 31st May. The IRB window says the first match of a three Test series should therefore start on the second weekend in June. Sounds like there should no clash right?

The NZRU decided to count the 31st May as the first weekend in June, because the 1st June falls on a Sunday. As it stands, then, they want the first Test on the 7th June. They aren't alone in that. Australia want to start their series against France on the 7th, and Ireland meet Argentina on that day too. However, South Africa play Wales on the 14th, after playing a warm-up match on the 7th. They are the only team with a match scheduled on the 28th - against Scotland.

It's not feasible for the North to change their final dates, which are all on the 31st this year (last year, the French final was on the 1st June, so they were always going to be shorn of players for the second week of June). They are always going to be at that pint in the calendar. However, you would think it ought to be feasible for NZ and Australia to rearrange their fixture lists without needing to change their own key dates.

England suggested the IRB rule on what date the international window should start but they were disinclined to set a precedent, and asked that the parties decide for themselves. It would be better if New Zealand and Australia took the South African approach to the schedule but we are where we are.

The real losers will be ticket buyers to the Barbarians match against England on Sunday June 1st. This was supposed to be a warm-up for the New Zealand tour, featuring players not turning out in the Aviva final. As it stands, it won't feature any tourists now either. I'm not entirely clear who will be coaching, given that someone ought to be with the players who fly out early. Perhaps they'll leave Catt or Farrell behind to oversee that fixture.

[thomh]

England have moved forward mystic. But yes, the next step is silverware. It has to be.

I agree with that to an extent, but remember that England did come within one missed kick elsewhere of winning the tournament. If France had stolen the win at the end against Ireland then we'd have won the tournament, and, using silverware as the measure, made more progress. But the France v Ireland game had nothing to do with us, so I would say it would be wrong to measure our progress based on it.

[yappysnap]

Anyway, the point I was referring to is that England a) gave away some really silly penalties against Wales and b) absolutely butchered a couple of overlaps. There was one 4 on 2, I have no idea how they didn't score.

Actually England butchered enough overlaps in this tournament to have won it easily in the end. Ireland are champions because we were more clinical when we got a sniff of the line ultimately.

Ireland were far more clinical Notch, you're right that was a big difference.

It's funny because for far longer in most games you guys played worse then us IMO but when you actually had the chance more often then not you nailed it (except against England!)

I think a lot of that is Schmidts influence bringing out the experience in the players that was always there but not tapped into.

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