What it means to you.

by tecphobe Sun 16 Mar 2014, 10:26 pm

I'm not going to to do a big piece on the 6 nations as many more people far more articulate than me already have. For me the Win in Paris means far more than the title. I think winning in Paris is of far more significance than the title itself.

by BigTrevsbigmac Sun 16 Mar 2014, 10:38 pm

Performances,ambition,blooding youngsters & putting down markers for the WC.
Once the slam was unobtainable for England then it was all about the above. I genuinely wasn't bothered that much about the result of the last game as England had done more than was expected & done it consistently. The championship was neither here nor there for me.
That wasn't meant to sound sour grapes because I was happy for BOD .
All in all a good championship but I do wish France would get their house in order & play a game more deserving of their talented players.

by Poorfour Sun 16 Mar 2014, 11:40 pm

I am genuinely pleased for Ireland and happy that they could send BOD off in style.

Which said, it does not mean that much to me that England did not win the championship. Before the tournament I said (not here, but y'know in the real world) that I would be happy if England beat Wales (because of the significance in RWC terms), one of Ireland and France, and both of Scotland and Italy. I stand by that. I am happy with the result, and I am happy with not winning the 6N. Actually, more than happy. The loss to France was disappointing, but the wins against the other 4 got more convincing as the tournament wore on.

Since 2011, England have been rebuilding from a very difficult starting point. All I have really cared about is progression towards having a squad with a genuine shot at RWC2015. That's not to knock the 6N, but it was too much to expect a squad with that level of experience to be able to win it. This 6N delivered two very significant steps forward from an England perspective: i) a team that had looked wobbly at closing out tight games got better at it; ii) credible alternatives in most positions where we didn't have cover.

Next steps? I can live with 0-3 in New Zealand as long as the 2nd and 3rd tests are close. If England go into the AIs with a full strength team, I would hope for a clean sweep in the AIs, but accept one close loss. In the 2015 6N I would want to see 3 good wins at home and 1 win on the road (preferably Cardiff, to keep up the momentum against Wales). Under those circumstances I'd be happy for Ireland to retain the title. And I'd like to see close to a fully fit squad go into the RWC.

All of that seems realistic to me. Anything on top would be a bonus.

by san Mon 17 Mar 2014, 4:39 am

Relief

by Taylorman Mon 17 Mar 2014, 5:07 am

Poorfour wrote:I am genuinely pleased for Ireland and happy that they could send BOD off in style.

Which said, it does not mean that much to me that England did not win the championship. Before the tournament I said (not here, but y'know in the real world) that I would be happy if England beat Wales (because of the significance in RWC terms), one of Ireland and France, and both of Scotland and Italy. I stand by that. I am happy with the result, and I am happy with not winning the 6N. Actually, more than happy. The loss to France was disappointing, but the wins against the other 4 got more convincing as the tournament wore on.

Since 2011, England have been rebuilding from a very difficult starting point. All I have really cared about is progression towards having a squad with a genuine shot at RWC2015. That's not to knock the 6N, but it was too much to expect a squad with that level of experience to be able to win it. This 6N delivered two very significant steps forward from an England perspective: i) a team that had looked wobbly at closing out tight games got better at it; ii) credible alternatives in most positions where we didn't have cover.

Next steps? I can live with 0-3 in New Zealand as long as the 2nd and 3rd tests are close. If England go into the AIs with a full strength team, I would hope for a clean sweep in the AIs, but accept one close loss. In the 2015 6N I would want to see 3 good wins at home and 1 win on the road (preferably Cardiff, to keep up the momentum against Wales). Under those circumstances I'd be happy for Ireland to retain the title. And I'd like to see close to a fully fit squad go into the RWC.

All of that seems realistic to me. Anything on top would be a bonus.

Well said...and that bonus could well be the world cup.

by Scratch Mon 17 Mar 2014, 5:08 am

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Performances,ambition,blooding youngsters & putting down markers for the WC.
Once the slam was unobtainable for England then it was all about the above. I genuinely wasn't bothered that much about the result of the last game as England had done more than was expected & done it consistently. The championship was neither here nor there for me.
That wasn't meant to sound sour grapes because I was happy for BOD .
All in all a good championship but I do wish France would get their house in order & play a game more deserving of their talented players.

how fortunate that you don't care about winning the championship…..really the lengths some will go to disguise the failure of their side is laughable. Laugh

This tourney title should be changed to The Consistent Nations.

by Poorfour Mon 17 Mar 2014, 6:09 am

Scratch wrote:
BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Performances,ambition,blooding youngsters & putting down markers for the WC.
Once the slam was unobtainable for England then it was all about the above. I genuinely wasn't bothered that much about the result of the last game as England had done more than was expected & done it consistently. The championship was neither here nor there for me.
That wasn't meant to sound sour grapes because I was happy for BOD .
All in all a good championship but I do wish France would get their house in order & play a game more deserving of their talented players.

how fortunate that you don't care about winning the championship…..really the lengths some will go to disguise the failure of their side is laughable.

This tourney title should be changed to The Consistent Nations.

Not anywhere near as laughable as your desperate attempts to pick a fight in an empty room.

by rainbow-warrior Mon 17 Mar 2014, 6:27 am

It disgusts me that a lot of people think that everything between world cups is a build up to said competition. Every game is a test match and should be seen as such. I would prefer to disband the world cup as a farce if it starts to affect the 6 Nations as some sort of training run. If it did become this or I thought it was so I would turn my back on Union for good. The 6 Nations is the oldest and best competition in the world and should be treated as such. The time for blooding youngsters in the Spring and AI's, yes still tests but quite correctly you have to do it at some stage.

The 6 Nations means everything to me, winning it is bigger than trying to beat any of the SH, that will come in time.

by Taylorman Mon 17 Mar 2014, 6:46 am

Thankfully youre in the minority with that one then...

by rainbow-warrior Mon 17 Mar 2014, 6:50 am

Taylorman wrote:Thankfully youre in the minority with that one then...

Doubt it.

by aucklandlaurie Mon 17 Mar 2014, 7:02 am

rainbow-warrior wrote:It disgusts me that a lot of people think that everything between world cups is a build up to said competition. Every game is a test match and should be seen as such. I would prefer to disband the world cup as a farce if it starts to affect the 6 Nations as some sort of training run. If it did become this or I thought it was so I would turn my back on Union for good. The 6 Nations is the oldest and best competition in the world and should be treated as such. The time for blooding youngsters in the Spring and AI's, yes still tests but quite correctly you have to do it at some stage.

The 6 Nations means everything to me, winning it is bigger than trying to beat any of the SH, that will come in time.

Well I can understand your reasons for that, since the none of the SH teams are in the six nations you dont have to worry about beating them, I dont understand your "That will come in time" comment though, More like a long time.

by Poorfour Mon 17 Mar 2014, 7:05 am

rainbow-warrior wrote:It disgusts me that a lot of people think that everything between world cups is a build up to said competition. Every game is a test match and should be seen as such. I would prefer to disband the world cup as a farce if it starts to affect the 6 Nations as some sort of training run. If it did become this or I thought it was so I would turn my back on Union for good. The 6 Nations is the oldest and best competition in the world and should be treated as such. The time for blooding youngsters in the Spring and AI's, yes still tests but quite correctly you have to do it at some stage.

The 6 Nations means everything to me, winning it is bigger than trying to beat any of the SH, that will come in time.

If that was directed at me, you misunderstand me. Winning the 6N is important, but it became unrealistic the moment Lancaster had to field a back division with fewer combined caps than BOD has on his own. That's not using the 6N to blood youngsters or as some sort of training run, that's having your first choice 13 long term injured and several wings unfit or out of form.

Lancaster had a choice when he started of whether to plod on with the same superannuated players who had done so well in NZ (not), or to have a clear out and try to put something in place for the future. He is trying to get England to a position similar to NZ, where new players can slot in farly seamlessly and there is never a huge rebuilding to be done. That is an aim I support. The price is accepting that England will constantly look forward and that at this stage we will have to accept that we will field less experienced teams than we would like. That means occasionally missing out on short term goals. The prize is having a squad of players where there's good cover in every position, and where new players can slot into an established system.

The 6N never really felt an achievable goal for England this year, especially not after Paris and after Ireland's demolition of Wales. So I'm not going to get het up about not winning it. I have enough stress in my life as it is. Besides, for England to win the thing would have spoiled BOD's send off. Aren't we allowed to enjoy a great story and be happy with a fitting send off to a player that anyone would want in their team, and anyone would be happy to share a couple of pints with? Isn't that what rugby is meant to be about, once the blood and thunder are over?

by rainbow-warrior Mon 17 Mar 2014, 7:08 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:
rainbow-warrior wrote:It disgusts me that a lot of people think that everything between world cups is a build up to said competition. Every game is a test match and should be seen as such. I would prefer to disband the world cup as a farce if it starts to affect the 6 Nations as some sort of training run. If it did become this or I thought it was so I would turn my back on Union for good. The 6 Nations is the oldest and best competition in the world and should be treated as such. The time for blooding youngsters in the Spring and AI's, yes still tests but quite correctly you have to do it at some stage.

The 6 Nations means everything to me, winning it is bigger than trying to beat any of the SH, that will come in time.

Well I can understand your reasons for that, since the none of the SH teams are in the six nations you dont have to worry about beating them, I dont understand your "That will come in time" comment though, More like a long time.

The sort of guy I would stand in front of and laugh at when it happens, and enjoy every second.

by rainbow-warrior Mon 17 Mar 2014, 7:12 am

Poorfour wrote:
rainbow-warrior wrote:It disgusts me that a lot of people think that everything between world cups is a build up to said competition. Every game is a test match and should be seen as such. I would prefer to disband the world cup as a farce if it starts to affect the 6 Nations as some sort of training run. If it did become this or I thought it was so I would turn my back on Union for good. The 6 Nations is the oldest and best competition in the world and should be treated as such. The time for blooding youngsters in the Spring and AI's, yes still tests but quite correctly you have to do it at some stage.

The 6 Nations means everything to me, winning it is bigger than trying to beat any of the SH, that will come in time.

If that was directed at me, you misunderstand me. Winning the 6N is important, but it became unrealistic the moment Lancaster had to field a back division with fewer combined caps than BOD has on his own. That's not using the 6N to blood youngsters or as some sort of training run, that's having your first choice 13 long term injured and several wings unfit or out of form.

Lancaster had a choice when he started of whether to plod on with the same superannuated players who had done so well in NZ (not), or to have a clear out and try to put something in place for the future. He is trying to get England to a position similar to NZ, where new players can slot in farly seamlessly and there is never a huge rebuilding to be done. That is an aim I support. The price is accepting that England will constantly look forward and that at this stage we will have to accept that we will field less experienced teams than we would like. That means occasionally missing out on short term goals. The prize is having a squad of players where there's good cover in every position, and where new players can slot into an established system.

The 6N never really felt an achievable goal for England this year, especially not after Paris and after Ireland's demolition of Wales. So I'm not going to get het up about not winning it. I have enough stress in my life as it is. Besides, for England to win the thing would have spoiled BOD's send off. Aren't we allowed to enjoy a great story and be happy with a fitting send off to a player that anyone would want in their team, and anyone would be happy to share a couple of pints with? Isn't that what rugby is meant to be about, once the blood and thunder are over?

No it was not aimed at you, there are many who disregard the 6 Nations now. It remains, as I said as the greatest competition in Union as far as I am concerned. It does not need to go home and away, neither does it require bonus points. Leave that to the SH Basketball union rugby thing, where referees ignore offences for the sake of flowing rugby, hence not wanting them interfering with the 6 Nations, we have enough world class refs in the NH

by **LondonTiger** Mon 17 Mar 2014, 7:38 am

I am pleased with the tournament as a whole. I would have liked to win it, but it was closes and we were narrowly pipped by a class team.

What pleases me most is that after two seasons of building a team with character and a strong defence, I could finally discern an attacking plan from my team. Injuries or loss of form meant that the 8 players capped by the lions in the Summer managed just 6 starts between them. The loss of this amount of experience saw young/new players really getting a go - and they stepped up to the plate. There will be genuine competition for places and that can only be good.

Slightly nervouse about the 3 tests in NZ - especially the first. The last 5 tests have been positive - lets hope we still feel the same after the next 5 (4 v NZ + SA).

by GavinDragon Mon 17 Mar 2014, 8:07 am

While disapointed with how our tournament is gone, I think it shows alot of welsh expectations that we are disapointed with third place.

While disapointed I am not distraught. Coming off the back of a lions season and with a few injuries in the build up to the tournament we have won all our home games (with 2 records set) and lost o the road against the two form sides. Also the manner of those defeats may be a blessing in disguise as it will force (hopefully) the coaching setup to have a 'plan b' in place for the WC for when teams kick well against us..

While the 6n is the bread and butter and we should always aim to be successful in it. For this wales team in pales into insignificance when compared to the need to get a W against the SH sides as that is what they are lacking from their repertoire at the moment...

Anyone from Wales (or any other country for that matter) who thinks the 6n is more important than SH victories is quite frankly not setting the expectation/standard high enough for their teams

by Taylorman Mon 17 Mar 2014, 9:09 am

rainbow-warrior wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
rainbow-warrior wrote:It disgusts me that a lot of people think that everything between world cups is a build up to said competition. Every game is a test match and should be seen as such. I would prefer to disband the world cup as a farce if it starts to affect the 6 Nations as some sort of training run. If it did become this or I thought it was so I would turn my back on Union for good. The 6 Nations is the oldest and best competition in the world and should be treated as such. The time for blooding youngsters in the Spring and AI's, yes still tests but quite correctly you have to do it at some stage.

The 6 Nations means everything to me, winning it is bigger than trying to beat any of the SH, that will come in time.

Well I can understand your reasons for that, since the none of the SH teams are in the six nations you dont have to worry about beating them, I dont understand your "That will come in time" comment though, More like a long time.

The sort of guy I would stand in front of and laugh at when it happens, and enjoy every second.

well I'm fairly sure your chest would be pumping on these boards more than Wales 6N last year if either A) Wales won the world cup or B) Wales beat the ABs. Perhaps its because neither is as likely that you 'find' yourself in the position of favouring the 6N.

by beshocked Mon 17 Mar 2014, 9:55 am

I am mostly happy with England but worried that Lancaster still does not seem to understand how to utilise the bench effectively or the importance of wingers. I feel that cost England the GS and the 6 nations title.

It's pretty simple - if players are performing well you don't take them off for the sake of it.

The English pack was very good throughout and gave us a great platform. Can't really fault them as an unit though some players like Mako and T.Youngs have aspects of their game to work on.

Backline was good overall but there are improvements that can be made, particularly on the wing. Nowell and May have not convinced me though Nowell is only 20 so should improve.

Wade and perhaps Yarde too on the wing could give us a very strong backline indeed.

Most pleasing thing for me personally was the way Care-Farrell linked up. Two players who had never performed together before working in harmony. England still need to be a bit more clinical but they are creating far more than a year ago. Partnerships are so key to a coherent team and it's good to see England building some.

Everyone seems to be feeding off the confidence of others which has been built from a side showing good form. It just shows how far England have come when they are disappointed that they did not put more points past by Italy.

by **Notch** Mon 17 Mar 2014, 11:09 am

It means enough to me that I was out of my seat roaring at the television when I thought the TMO wasn't going to call that incredibly forward pass a forward pass!

At the end of that last 10 minutes I just slumped backwards, emotionally drained. Here's to a successful title defence in 2015 zen

by TrailApe Mon 17 Mar 2014, 11:12 am

It might seem strange but for me, but England finishing second this year was a better result than finishing second last year.

For me it was the manner in which England set about their games with pace and purpose. Whilst there is still room for improvement
with the accuracy of implementing the game plan, the signs are there that they are truly looking at playing 15 man rugby. Last year they were pretty limited in attack, this year has seen the emergence of some decent centres who are actually getting and using the ball and hopefully in the near future the wings will be brought into the fold as part of the game plan – I’m saying this as, for me, this campaign I still think that the two wings were primarily there to cover Mr Brown when he went on one of his forays (might be wrong there, but that’s my impression).

Additionally there are some pretty exciting players on the fringes looking to offer even more skill sets to the current squad and there are a few class players set to return from injury.

It has also became apparent that we have a plan B and a Plan C. Previous England teams of reasonably talented players have floundered when pressured especially when the set piece only achieved parity, or worse, came off second best. This lot seem to think on the hoof and if they can’t go around, they’ll go through and if they can’t go through they will then go over.

So for me this year’s 6 Nations has been almost a coming of age for Stewie and His Merry Men – now let’s see how they handle that AB team on their home soil.

by rainbow-warrior Tue 18 Mar 2014, 3:55 am

Taylorman wrote:
rainbow-warrior wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
rainbow-warrior wrote:It disgusts me that a lot of people think that everything between world cups is a build up to said competition. Every game is a test match and should be seen as such. I would prefer to disband the world cup as a farce if it starts to affect the 6 Nations as some sort of training run. If it did become this or I thought it was so I would turn my back on Union for good. The 6 Nations is the oldest and best competition in the world and should be treated as such. The time for blooding youngsters in the Spring and AI's, yes still tests but quite correctly you have to do it at some stage.

The 6 Nations means everything to me, winning it is bigger than trying to beat any of the SH, that will come in time.

Well I can understand your reasons for that, since the none of the SH teams are in the six nations you dont have to worry about beating them, I dont understand your "That will come in time" comment though, More like a long time.

The sort of guy I would stand in front of and laugh at when it happens, and enjoy every second.

well I'm fairly sure your chest would be pumping on these boards more than Wales 6N last year if either A) Wales won the world cup or B) Wales beat the ABs. Perhaps its because neither is as likely that you 'find' yourself in the position of favouring the 6N.

How long did it take your lot to win the WC again? No bottle. Had we kept out 1st team and beaten the French we would have done NZ too.

by Taylorman Tue 18 Mar 2014, 4:01 am

rainbow-warrior wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
rainbow-warrior wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
rainbow-warrior wrote:It disgusts me that a lot of people think that everything between world cups is a build up to said competition. Every game is a test match and should be seen as such. I would prefer to disband the world cup as a farce if it starts to affect the 6 Nations as some sort of training run. If it did become this or I thought it was so I would turn my back on Union for good. The 6 Nations is the oldest and best competition in the world and should be treated as such. The time for blooding youngsters in the Spring and AI's, yes still tests but quite correctly you have to do it at some stage.

The 6 Nations means everything to me, winning it is bigger than trying to beat any of the SH, that will come in time.

Well I can understand your reasons for that, since the none of the SH teams are in the six nations you dont have to worry about beating them, I dont understand your "That will come in time" comment though, More like a long time.

The sort of guy I would stand in front of and laugh at when it happens, and enjoy every second.

well I'm fairly sure your chest would be pumping on these boards more than Wales 6N last year if either A) Wales won the world cup or B) Wales beat the ABs. Perhaps its because neither is as likely that you 'find' yourself in the position of favouring the 6N.

How long did it take your lot to win the WC again? No bottle. Had we kept out 1st team and beaten the French we would have done NZ too.

Oh? So now its ifs and had we's that never result in anything in the end are ok for one side on one occasion but not for another on several?

If for a few Ifs and buts applied we'd be looking at close to all 7 World cups RW...you'd be iffing a butting till the cows come home and wouldnt get near two. let alone one. Good try though...

by rainbow-warrior Tue 18 Mar 2014, 4:37 am

Taylorman wrote:
rainbow-warrior wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
rainbow-warrior wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
rainbow-warrior wrote:It disgusts me that a lot of people think that everything between world cups is a build up to said competition. Every game is a test match and should be seen as such. I would prefer to disband the world cup as a farce if it starts to affect the 6 Nations as some sort of training run. If it did become this or I thought it was so I would turn my back on Union for good. The 6 Nations is the oldest and best competition in the world and should be treated as such. The time for blooding youngsters in the Spring and AI's, yes still tests but quite correctly you have to do it at some stage.

The 6 Nations means everything to me, winning it is bigger than trying to beat any of the SH, that will come in time.

Well I can understand your reasons for that, since the none of the SH teams are in the six nations you dont have to worry about beating them, I dont understand your "That will come in time" comment though, More like a long time.

The sort of guy I would stand in front of and laugh at when it happens, and enjoy every second.

well I'm fairly sure your chest would be pumping on these boards more than Wales 6N last year if either A) Wales won the world cup or B) Wales beat the ABs. Perhaps its because neither is as likely that you 'find' yourself in the position of favouring the 6N.

How long did it take your lot to win the WC again? No bottle. Had we kept out 1st team and beaten the French we would have done NZ too.

Oh? So now its ifs and had we's that never result in anything in the end are ok for one side on one occasion but not for another on several?

If for a few Ifs and buts applied we'd be looking at close to all 7 World cups RW...you'd be iffing a butting till the cows come home and wouldnt get near two. let alone one. Good try though...

Yeah had France not battered you fairly and squarely a few times hahahaha Whistle

by Guest Tue 18 Mar 2014, 5:18 am

Fail

by rainbow-warrior Tue 18 Mar 2014, 5:20 am

ebop wrote:Fail

Indeed it was, against France a few time thumbsup

by dummy_half Tue 18 Mar 2014, 7:40 am

I can understand the comments from the other England fans - perhaps I'm a bit more disappointed at missing the Slam because the French were there for the taking, but for a bit of luck and a bit of composure. I suspect if the order of matches had been different (say Italy first, France last) we'd have had the toughness and composure to win there.

TrailApe makes a good point - last year we were second but played moderately or poorly other than v Scotland, whereas this year there has been far more dynamism and a better balance to the team, so while the bottom line is similar there is much more faith amongst the supporters that this is an England team going the right way.

Now if only we can get our first choice props and wingers fit...

by Jimpy Tue 18 Mar 2014, 7:47 am

ebop wrote:Fail

On so many levels.

by TJ Tue 18 Mar 2014, 8:58 am

What it means to me?

As a Scots fan more disappointment. Not just being beaten by better teams but playing poorly with no team spirit and no cohesion. Looked poorly coached with players unsure of their roles. This is the best group of scots players for a long time and they simply are not delivering the goods. A step backwards

Ireland - worthy winners. Played as a team and with the right tactics for each game. Their dismantling of Wales was a great win.

England - continue on the march to the WC and becoming ominously good. In Burrell seem to have found have the first top notch centre for a while. Still a work in progress hence no championship. My favourites for the WC

Wales - a poor season. They look stale and predictable agaisnt good teams

France - WTF? Some fantastic tries and players and as far as I could see no plan at all.

Italy - a season to forget. competitive but thats it.

Overall? A couple of good games and a few bits of drama but not a great 6N.

by GunsGerms Tue 18 Mar 2014, 9:14 am

rainbow-warrior wrote:It disgusts me that a lot of people think that everything between world cups is a build up to said competition. Every game is a test match and should be seen as such. I would prefer to disband the world cup as a farce if it starts to affect the 6 Nations as some sort of training run. If it did become this or I thought it was so I would turn my back on Union for good. The 6 Nations is the oldest and best competition in the world and should be treated as such. The time for blooding youngsters in the Spring and AI's, yes still tests but quite correctly you have to do it at some stage.

The 6 Nations means everything to me, winning it is bigger than trying to beat any of the SH, that will come in time.

Yes winning the 6 nations is the most important part of the Irish international calendar. Theres no question about that. Id much rather a 6 nations slam then to win all the Nov tests for example.

by Jimpy Tue 18 Mar 2014, 9:50 am

GunsGerms wrote:
rainbow-warrior wrote:It disgusts me that a lot of people think that everything between world cups is a build up to said competition. Every game is a test match and should be seen as such. I would prefer to disband the world cup as a farce if it starts to affect the 6 Nations as some sort of training run. If it did become this or I thought it was so I would turn my back on Union for good. The 6 Nations is the oldest and best competition in the world and should be treated as such. The time for blooding youngsters in the Spring and AI's, yes still tests but quite correctly you have to do it at some stage.

The 6 Nations means everything to me, winning it is bigger than trying to beat any of the SH, that will come in time.

Yes winning the 6 nations is the most important part of the Irish international calendar. Theres no question about that. Id much rather a 6 nations slam then to win all the Nov tests for example.

It's good to win the 6N, and even better to do so by a GS (a rare Irish occurenece, let's be honest...) - BUT, it is also very important to win matches against the big three in the Summer and Autumn tests, especially with a World Cup looming. Beating a SH team is the only way a NH team can have a chance of lifting the trophy. If you can't do that, and with some sort of consistency, then you're always going to be 'also rans'. I don't get as passionate about the Summer and Autumn tests but I don't see them as any less important. That's the problem with certain NH teams, the 6N is all that matters because put simply, they struggle to beat SH teams full stop. Based on recent results and form, only England, Ireland (and maybe France if they can be bothered to reproduce last Autumn's form) have a realistic chance of progressing to the latter stages of the 2015 World Cup. The upcoming tests are an important barometer that will prove whether that comment was correct or not.

by GunsGerms Tue 18 Mar 2014, 10:00 am

Jimpy wrote:
It's good to win the 6N, and even better to do so by a GS (a rare Irish occurenece, let's be honest...) - BUT, it is also very important to win matches against the big three in the Summer and Autumn tests, especially with a World Cup looming. Beating a SH team is the only way a NH team can have a chance of lifting the trophy. If you can't do that, and with some sort of consistency, then you're always going to be 'also rans'. I don't get as passionate about the Summer and Autumn tests but I don't see them as any less important. That's the problem with certain NH teams, the 6N is all that matters because put simply, they struggle to beat SH teams full stop. Based on recent results and form, only England, Ireland (and maybe France if they can be bothered to reproduce last Autumn's form) have a realistic chance of progressing to the latter stages of the 2015 World Cup. The upcoming tests are an important barometer that will prove whether that comment was correct or not.

For Irelands WC group its more important that we beat France and Italy because if we do then we play Argentina for a place in the semis which would be a great achievement. The semi is then likely to be against England who are likely to top their group and play Scotland or Samoa in the quarters. If Ireland are able to beat all NH sides its fairly likely they wont meet a SH side until the final.

Therefore SH teams arent that important right now.

by SecretFly Tue 18 Mar 2014, 10:27 am

What the 6N means to me?

Well, France as a Nation should be cited for not genuinely trying to play real rugby through most of the Championship! Wink

They, more than any other side, throw off the accuracy by which we could all draw upon a more clear understanding of where we all are. Not good sportsmanship, France. Do try harder to play ball.

Having said that, the top 25% of the Championship was I think the most viciously competitive I have seen it in a long time. Teams were required to expend lots of energy to stick with each other, teams endured genuine 80 minute International level intensity. England v Ireland, France v Ireland and perhaps the France v England game were WC standard encounters of serious physical intent and punishing pace.

The sides that did fall off the pace though, fell off dramatically. Scotland have had a nightmare to forget. Italy huffed and puffed and need Parisse to go if they stand any chance at all. He's a hero in all the wrong ways now and the other players are impeded by him. His attempt to do whatever he tried to do against England at the end, when all he needed to do was kick-out and end the game, was ludicrous.

Wales. It's hard to rate them. Outplayed by England and Ireland - destroyed France and Scotland.

Thus my annoyance at France, who constantly pretend they can't play until they get angry enough to play. Crud. Had they played to their full capacity, we'd all more fully understand where we actually are in the scheme of things. I suspect that truth might be that France are still tops there by a good percentage (when their minds are on the job) with England and Ireland lurking somewhere beneath them.

by Taylorman Tue 18 Mar 2014, 10:37 am

GunsGerms wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
It's good to win the 6N, and even better to do so by a GS (a rare Irish occurenece, let's be honest...) - BUT, it is also very important to win matches against the big three in the Summer and Autumn tests, especially with a World Cup looming. Beating a SH team is the only way a NH team can have a chance of lifting the trophy. If you can't do that, and with some sort of consistency, then you're always going to be 'also rans'. I don't get as passionate about the Summer and Autumn tests but I don't see them as any less important. That's the problem with certain NH teams, the 6N is all that matters because put simply, they struggle to beat SH teams full stop. Based on recent results and form, only England, Ireland (and maybe France if they can be bothered to reproduce last Autumn's form) have a realistic chance of progressing to the latter stages of the 2015 World Cup. The upcoming tests are an important barometer that will prove whether that comment was correct or not.

For Irelands WC group its more important that we beat France and Italy because if we do then we play Argentina for a place in the semis which would be a great achievement. The semi is then likely to be against England who are likely to top their group and play Scotland or Samoa in the quarters. If Ireland are able to beat all NH sides its fairly likely they wont meet a SH side until the final.

Therefore SH teams arent that important right now.

good point...and also a highly possible scenario...

by Jimpy Tue 18 Mar 2014, 10:51 am

Taylorman wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
It's good to win the 6N, and even better to do so by a GS (a rare Irish occurenece, let's be honest...) - BUT, it is also very important to win matches against the big three in the Summer and Autumn tests, especially with a World Cup looming. Beating a SH team is the only way a NH team can have a chance of lifting the trophy. If you can't do that, and with some sort of consistency, then you're always going to be 'also rans'. I don't get as passionate about the Summer and Autumn tests but I don't see them as any less important. That's the problem with certain NH teams, the 6N is all that matters because put simply, they struggle to beat SH teams full stop. Based on recent results and form, only England, Ireland (and maybe France if they can be bothered to reproduce last Autumn's form) have a realistic chance of progressing to the latter stages of the 2015 World Cup. The upcoming tests are an important barometer that will prove whether that comment was correct or not.

For Irelands WC group its more important that we beat France and Italy because if we do then we play Argentina for a place in the semis which would be a great achievement. The semi is then likely to be against England who are likely to top their group and play Scotland or Samoa in the quarters. If Ireland are able to beat all NH sides its fairly likely they wont meet a SH side until the final.

Therefore SH teams arent that important right now.

good point...and also a highly possible scenario...

I suppose it is when you consider that should the scenario pan out, Ireland would unlikely beat England and therefore meeting a SH team is irrelevant..... Whistle

by Poorfour Tue 18 Mar 2014, 10:51 am

Guns, I'd argue that SH sides are more, not less, important. If you are only likely to meet one in the final, you have no opportunity to get used to dealing with them in the tournament itself. Got to get used to beating them in the next 6 months, or you won't get the chance.

Unless you're happy just to make the final, that is.

by SecretFly Tue 18 Mar 2014, 10:55 am

Jimpy wrote:

I suppose it is when you consider that should the scenario pan out, Ireland would unlikely beat England and therefore meeting a SH team is irrelevant.....

Yeah, we'll take it any way we get it if it comes up. We'll either beat England in a likely way or an unlikely way. We're not particular which way we'd do it. Even a point would be fine Wink

by GunsGerms Tue 18 Mar 2014, 10:58 am

Poorfour wrote:Guns, I'd argue that SH sides are more, not less, important. If you are only likely to meet one in the final, you have no opportunity to get used to dealing with them in the tournament itself. Got to get used to beating them in the next 6 months, or you won't get the chance.

Unless you're happy just to make the final, that is.

I would be happy to just make it to the final as we have never even made it to a semi before. However, we beat the last SH team we played in the WC but yet the last two teams we have lost to have been Wales and Argentina so I think we ned to work on beating those teams first and then Id be confident that if we go on a roll in the WC we could do a number on a top three side.

by SecretFly Tue 18 Mar 2014, 11:02 am

Poorfour wrote:Guns, I'd argue that SH sides are more, not less, important. If you are only likely to meet one in the final, you have no opportunity to get used to dealing with them in the tournament itself. Got to get used to beating them in the next 6 months, or you won't get the chance.

Unless you're happy just to make the final, that is.

Not so. Beating your NH opponents sufficiently well (certainly Wales, France and England) would theoretically put you in the right climate to also have a stab at any SH side you might meet in the WC, especially if that meeting is further down the line towards the closing stages. Confidence would be up at that stage and a game is 80 minutes of 'Let's see'.... and no guarantees.

by Jimpy Tue 18 Mar 2014, 11:02 am

SecretFly wrote:
Jimpy wrote:

I suppose it is when you consider that should the scenario pan out, Ireland would unlikely beat England and therefore meeting a SH team is irrelevant.....

Yeah, we'll take it any way we get it if it comes up. We'll either beat England in a likely way or an unlikely way. We're not particular which way we'd do it. Even a point would be fine

Feck me, if only there was an 'in your wildest dreams' emoticon... What it means to you. 1347041234

by Scrumpy Tue 18 Mar 2014, 11:02 am

What it means to you?

I wanted to see some new players blooded into a winning team, a team that is performing well and a team that has the spirit and desirer to win and fight for the shirt.

I got my wish, and I'm a very happy man after this years 6 nations as I believe just missing out on the title whilst missing a number of key players will do us the world of good.

No doubt some of you will disagree, but sometimes you have to play the long game, papering over the cracks for the short term gain is a poor 2nd choice and rarely works anyway.

by SecretFly Tue 18 Mar 2014, 11:02 am

Jimpy wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Jimpy wrote:

I suppose it is when you consider that should the scenario pan out, Ireland would unlikely beat England and therefore meeting a SH team is irrelevant.....

Yeah, we'll take it any way we get it if it comes up. We'll either beat England in a likely way or an unlikely way. We're not particular which way we'd do it. Even a point would be fine

Feck me, if only there was an 'in your wildest dreams' emoticon...

Are we that bad? Shocked

by dummy_half Tue 18 Mar 2014, 12:00 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Jimpy wrote:

I suppose it is when you consider that should the scenario pan out, Ireland would unlikely beat England and therefore meeting a SH team is irrelevant.....

Yeah, we'll take it any way we get it if it comes up. We'll either beat England in a likely way or an unlikely way. We're not particular which way we'd do it. Even a point would be fine

Feck me, if only there was an 'in your wildest dreams' emoticon...

Are we that bad?

Only when you get going on your inter-province arguments Wink

by SecretFly Tue 18 Mar 2014, 12:10 pm

Yeah..well...they'll be part of WC build up too! Wink

So get used to them... we can't stop tradition now. Provincial pitch-fork battles on the sidelines is what keeps us mean enough to hold out in Paris.

by Scratch Tue 18 Mar 2014, 4:03 pm

Scrumpy wrote:What it means to you?

I wanted to see some new players blooded into a winning team, a team that is performing well and a team that has the spirit and desirer to win and fight for the shirt.

I got my wish, and I'm a very happy man after this years 6 nations as I believe just missing out on the title whilst missing a number of key players will do us the world of good.

No doubt some of you will disagree, but sometimes you have to play the long game, papering over the cracks for the short term gain is a poor 2nd choice and rarely works anyway.

That is absolutely hilarious!!!!!!!!!! Laugh

Please please please can we lose.

Scrumpy you should become a motivational speaker or a decorator, you certainly are an expert at wallpapering.

by **Biltong** Tue 18 Mar 2014, 4:25 pm

Scratch wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:What it means to you?

I wanted to see some new players blooded into a winning team, a team that is performing well and a team that has the spirit and desirer to win and fight for the shirt.

I got my wish, and I'm a very happy man after this years 6 nations as I believe just missing out on the title whilst missing a number of key players will do us the world of good.

No doubt some of you will disagree, but sometimes you have to play the long game, papering over the cracks for the short term gain is a poor 2nd choice and rarely works anyway.

That is absolutely hilarious!!!!!!!!!!

Please please please can we lose.

Scrumpy you should become a motivational speaker or a decorator, you certainly are an expert at wallpapering.

Scratch, that comment is in poor taste and only serves as a sarcastic comment towards a poster. You know what happens when you attack posters. Please desist immediately and remember you are on a warning. This type of behaviour does not contribute ti the forum in any manner, other than getting yourself some time in the sinbin.

by Taffineastbourne Tue 18 Mar 2014, 4:34 pm

Pleased that we didn't win three in a row as we probably would have persevered with the same personnel and game plan.
We now have time to refresh things in time for the RWC.

by Scratch Tue 18 Mar 2014, 4:35 pm

Taffineastbourne wrote:Pleased that we didn't win three in a row as we probably would have persevered with the same personnel and game plan.
We now have time to refresh things in time for the RWC.

Me too

by Poorfour Tue 18 Mar 2014, 5:16 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Poorfour wrote:Guns, I'd argue that SH sides are more, not less, important. If you are only likely to meet one in the final, you have no opportunity to get used to dealing with them in the tournament itself. Got to get used to beating them in the next 6 months, or you won't get the chance.

Unless you're happy just to make the final, that is.

Not so. Beating your NH opponents sufficiently well (certainly Wales, France and England) would theoretically put you in the right climate to also have a stab at any SH side you might meet in the WC, especially if that meeting is further down the line towards the closing stages. Confidence would be up at that stage and a game is 80 minutes of 'Let's see'.... and no guarantees.

You might want to get some empirical evidence to back up that theory before relying on it. You could ask a Welshman, for instance. [ducks for cover]

by SecretFly Tue 18 Mar 2014, 5:44 pm

No no. No empirical evidence required to cast aside the belief you "got to get used to beating [SH sides] in the next six months before you have a chance of beating one or two of them to get to a WC semi or final.

Look at Ireland last time. They opened the entire WC up for virtually all NH sides by beating a SH side they were never predicted to.

There is no guarantee of victory - ever, for anyone, no matter how well you do in the Autumn tests. You just plan as well as you can to beat your next opponent. Wales thrashed England last year, England turned the tides this year. Nothing that happened last year predicted this year.

by Poorfour Tue 18 Mar 2014, 6:29 pm

Well, I had my tongue firmly in my cheek there, but I do think my final comment stands.

If Irish fans would be happy to see a semi-final and anything beyond that is a bonus, then only worrying about the NH is fine. But if your ambition goes further than that, in your position I would not be relying on the ability to beat a side you were never predicted to.

Ireland caught Australia unawares last time out, but which side made a semi final and won 3rd place? A SH team in the later stages of the tournament is a very different prospect to one in the opening games.

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