Scotland and the summer tour!

funnyExiledScot wrote:
We all have our views on what the chosen XV is, Edinburgh fans being optimistic, Glasgow fans being realistic.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Whilst I agree that we shouldn't be taking them lightly, I think we have our own reasons not to muck about with the XV any further. We need to get the combinations settled, and allow them to gel. We don't have time to pick 4 different XVs throughout the summer, and then a different side in the AIs. Johnson's incompetence has cost us at least 12 months of preparation time. The only postitive to come from that fool's tenure is the establishment of Scott and Dunbar as the first choice and consistently selected centre pairing. No surprise that the one piece of consistent selection has been his best.

We all have our views on what the chosen XV is, Edinburgh fans being impartial and judicious, Glasgow fans being one-eyed, partisan and slightly Welsh. However, I'd almost rather not get the XV I want to see but have consistent selection between now and the World Cup, than suffer more of Johnson's ludicrous chopping and changing.

George Carlin wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote: Edinburgh fans being impartial and judicious, Glasgow fans being one-eyed, partisan and slightly Welsh.

If the legal career doesn't work out, a job as a 'traditional' Edinburgh cab driver surely beckons.

IS SCOTLAND a tier one nation or a tier two rugby country? It’s an interesting question and one that is worth examining in light of the forthcoming summer tour to the USA, Canada, Argentina and South Africa.

Four Test matches in four weekends is a tough ask, it is not usually attempted outside of a World Cup campaign. At approximately 26,000 miles distance Scotland’s eight-flight, globe-trotting will see them fly further than the circumference of the globe. What could possibly have prompted the SRU to sanction the sort of round-the-world, continent-crossing, morale testing, jet-lag inducing expedition that would have Michael Palin shredding his passport?

The answer is that it is to help maintain Scotland’s precarious tier one status. The summer Test schedules were originally rolled out by the IRB in 2010, with Scotland playing almost exclusively against tier two nations. The powers that be decided that the Scots were simply not strong enough to play what had become traditional three-Test series against the Southern Hemisphere big boys – New Zealand, Australia and South Africa. They were right. The prospect of Scotland playing three back-to-back Tests against the All Blacks, as England are doing this summer, doesn’t bear imagining.

Still, the Scots complained about the quality of their chosen opposition and the big boys agreed to shoe-horn one-off Tests against the Scots into the pre-arranged schedules. Unfortunately, these additional matches have to be played midweek (as with Australia in 2012 when the Test fell on a Tuesday evening) or they have to be played outside the three-week IRB June window (as is happening in South Africa this summer).

Which effectively means that new coach Vern Cotter will have to pick a squad to play the Springboks that is selected exclusively from Edinburgh and Glasgow. The foreign-based clubs will prevent their players from playing outside the official Test window. Premier Rugby Ltd fine those that don’t. So Scotland will play the best of the summer opposition with the weakest team.

Moreover, the trip from Buenos Aires to Port Elizabeth is tortuous, expensive and very long. There are no direct flights from Argentina to South Africa so the squad will have to travel via Brazil in the middle of the soccer World Cup, when every plane in and out of the place will be packed to the gunwales and prices will be through the roof. All to ensure that Scotland get tier one opposition. Never mind that it is the same tier one opposition that the Scots played in November, oh, and last June as well.

Already there is talk of not one but two touring parties taking on the challenge of this marathon quest. A largely domestic and potentially a more experienced squad of players will travel to Argentina and South Africa for the harder two Tests. The first party will use the exiles and one or two young guns for the North America leg of the tour. Given the numbers, or rather the lack of them, some poor players will inevitably be asked to front up on four successive weekends.

This is partly because Cotter can’t afford to put out a significantly weakened side in North America for fear of losing to the Eagles and/or the Canucks. The hosts will smell blood and will relish claiming a tier one scalp, even if it only belongs to Scotland. It’s happened before.

Back in June of 2002 a very decent looking Scotland side, including the likes of Mike Blair, Chris Paterson, Simon Taylor and Jason White, slumped to a first ever defeat to Canada by 26-23 at Vancouver’s Thunderbird Stadium. Ian McGeechan was coach.

Cotter will not want a repeat. Indeed, he will be determined to get off on the right note and losing in North America will send out an unfortunate “business as usual” signal rather than the preferred “under new management” that all tartan fans are hoping to see.

Ineffable wrote:Wow, that really would be an untested XXIII if he's considering a split party. That would mean we would have to have two squads of around - 26 ? - to make sure all is well covered. Can't be flying people out at the last minute to North or South America with that time difference.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Just had the scary thought that SJ might be given responsibility of one of the squads while cotter works with the other....   

George Carlin wrote:Please bear in mind when considering possible squads that Uncle Dougie would not be available. He doesn't do well with Foreigners and tends to adopt the British linguistic approach abroad of asking for cheese sandwiches more loudly than he usually would. This would be the case regardless of the fact that they speak English in the US and Canada.

IanBru wrote:Kalman's frigging capped for Scotland!  Came off the bench against France in 2012 and folded like a Stockbridge girl at the Blue Lagoon.

Don't get me wrong, I love the guy, but international class he ain't!

IanBru wrote:Nah RDW, absolute powder-puff, the lot of them!

My dad used to work for a South African company and they went for an annual four-day safari through the bush. After two nights of bush brai, with steak on springbok on top of more steak, washed down with biltong, my dad meekly asked if there were any vegetables available. Maybe a potato or a pepper?

The park ranger looked rather confused and replied, “Well, we’ve got some chicken…”.

tigertattie wrote:

Ineffable wrote:Wow, that really would be an untested XXIII if he's considering a split party. That would mean we would have to have two squads of around - 26 ? - to make sure all is well covered. Can't be flying people out at the last minute to North or South America with that time difference.

SA is only two hours ahead of us in time difference I think?

Ahhhhhhhh.  You said South America! Doh!!!

funnyExiledScot wrote:I have in mind a traditional school playground selection method, where SJ and Cotter each alternate in picking the players they want.

Two things seem likely:

1. That all the players would be throwing their hands in the air each time it came to Cotter's turn to pick, and be hiding behind each other when it came to SJ's turn.

2. That Cotter would end up having all the best players anyway, whilst SJ was left wondering how he's somehow managed to select a squad without any props.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I watched the Clermont game at the weekend. Would love to go down there for a game.

It's going to be a very different sort of job for Cotter in Scotland. We have some good players, but the positivity and mental strength of Clermont, both in defence and attack, will be extremely difficult to replicate with Scotland, particularly given the damage done by Scott Johnson.

Cotter will probably, to a degree, need to replicate the approach taken by Solomons at Edinburgh. Clearly Cotter has far less time to work with, and international rugby is considerably less forgiving than the Rabo 12, but there is so much work to do with the current squad, and Scott Johnson has pretty much wasted two years. Cotter doesn't have the luxury of effectively starting from scratch, but the players could do worse than trying to forget everything Scott Johnson has told them, and wipe the slate clean.

Ineffable wrote:??? !!! ???

Wtf does Dodson mean "decide whether he wants him as a coach"?

A) Obviously not
B) Whatever the hell the DoR job is, shouldn't it be something that's a full time responsibility - presumably the intention is to make it useful although with the SRU who knows - and not at the whims of whether Scotland are playing international games or not? Jeebus christ.
C) OBVIOUSLY NOT

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Ineffable wrote:??? !!! ???

Wtf does Dodson mean "decide whether he wants him as a coach"?

A) Obviously not
B) Whatever the hell the DoR job is, shouldn't it be something that's a full time responsibility - presumably the intention is to make it useful although with the SRU who knows - and not at the whims of whether Scotland are playing international games or not? Jeebus christ.
C) OBVIOUSLY NOT

Effie, would that be OBVIOUSLY NOT?

BigGee wrote:I hope and think that SJ will step back from front line coaching after this tour. However as Cotter may not become available until a few days before they leave if Clermont reach the HC final and the Top 14 playoffs, there is probably is not much option in him remaining on for now.

Dobson sounded to me as if he was hinting as such in the interview, he is not an idiot and has no doubt picked up the vibe. SJ has got a lot to prove in this DoR job and really does need to be giving it his whole attention. He made it very clear that VC will be reporting directly to him and not to SJ, which again is the right decision, SJ is unfortunately just a little to compromised now.