Scotland and the summer tour!

First topic message reminder :

Games:

Saturday 7 June:
United States of America v Scotland
BBVA Compass Stadium, Houston, Texas

Saturday 14 June:
Canada v Scotland
BMO Field, Toronto, Ontario

Saturday 21 June:
Argentina v Scotland
Estadio Mario Alberto Kempes, Córdoba

Saturday 28 June:
South Africa v Scotland
Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, Port Elizabeth

***
Now the 6 nations are over there will be major changes for Scotland between now and the next international.
Vern Cotter will be the head coach for the next test with scott Johnson moving to director of rugby. Unclear yet if Cotter will bring in his own coaching team or whether he will inherit the current crop.

The 6 nations has been a disaster for Scotland but I still believe Scotland has some very good players and a lot of the problems in the 6 nations stem from poor coaching, tactics, very bad selection and man management. Glasgow regularly beat the top Rambo teams, Edinburgh can as well and a lot of the exile players are playing at the very top teams in England and France and winning week in week out but for some reason when they pull on the blue jersey something just isn't there.
This will all change when Cotter arrives. Speaking to Chris Paterson and al kellock a few weeks ago they can't wait for cotter to arrive as they say his coaching style and manner is that of a modern day Jim Telfer and they believe exactly what this squad need.

From a playing point of view there are a few players that should be dropped and not selected for the summer tour. For me they are Ryan Wilson, Tim Swinson, Greig Laidlaw.
Wilson is good at number 8 for Glasgow but is not a 6 at international level. We have 3 far better 6's available yet none were picked. Would Wilson get in the team at 8? For me, nope. Denton, Beattie are far better options and I would say Ali Hogg is also far better than wilson. Why was he picked? Because Johnson thought he was a good "kid". It's not wilson a fault he was picked out of position but there are far better options.
Tim Swinson was very poor compared to his form on last years summer tour. He didn't seem to have the same grunt or energy and was ver ineffective. Again there are other options at lock like Gilchrist who has improved a lot this season and has a harder edge about him now and also johnnycake gray.
Greig Laidlaw was put in the autumn tests and even worse in the 6 nations. His decision making was poor, his service was extremely slow. He offers no break or snipe at all and his main attribute his goal kicking has been poor. Custer looks far sharper, when he has played and deserves a shot. He also has very good leadership qualities. Grayson Hart is also in top form and deserves a chance on recent form. Quick pass, physical and knows the way to the line.

The Backrow was the biggest concern during the 6 nations, it was unbalanced and very off pace. The back row needs balance and a good back row will have 3 players with different qualities, a scavenger who makes a nuisance of himself and tackles his heart out. A hard worker who will do the unseen stuff at the breakdown and then a big athletic ball carrier who will run all day making the hard yards. Scotland have these options but went for three players who were all very similar. It didn't work and must be changed.

The summer tour we play Canada, USA, Argentina and South Africa. The first two teams we "should" beat comfortably the other two will be tough and physical. They will probably take a squad of between 32 and 35.
I'd go with 6 props
Ryan grant
Ali Dickinson
Jon welsh but has to move back to loose head where he is far more destructive.
Euan murray
Geoff cross
Moray low not great during 6 nations but would like to see what difference cotter can make.

Squad

North America

LH - Allan, Reid, Traynor
H - Bryce, Lawson, McArthur
TH - Cross, Low
SR - Gilchrist, Gray, Hamilton, Low
6/8 - Beattie, Brown, Strokosh
7 - Cowan

SH - Hart, Laidlaw
SO - Heathcoat, Russell
IC - Taylor
OC -Bennett
W - Evans, Lamont, Maitland, Visser
FB - Hogg

Argentina / SA

LH - Dickinson, Reid
H - Bryce, Ford, McArthur
TH - Cross, Low, Welsh
SR - Gilchrist, Gray, Swinson
6/8 - Denton, Harley,
7 - Fusaro

SH - Hart, Pyrgos
SO - Jackson, Weir
IC - Horne
OC - ?
W - Fife, Maitland, Seymour
FB - Hogg, Murchie

bluestonevedder wrote:Such a shame if Rennie misses out on tour again. I've been looking at his stats for Bristol this season and he's been in prolific try scoring form, as well as racking up the playing time again.

I didn't know he was injured until the squad announcement. Do you know if its serious? ie his knee>?

So Grant and Hall having some surgery done in the off-season? Fairy muff

Bennett being called up to play 7s in the Commonwealth Games? Pointless. The lad needs exposure at the highest level and to push on

nickj wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:Such a shame if Rennie misses out on tour again. I've been looking at his stats for Bristol this season and he's been in prolific try scoring form, as well as racking up the playing time again.

I didn't know he was injured until the squad announcement. Do you know if its serious? ie his knee>?

Are we sure he's actually injured? He played for an hour in the last game against Rotherham (before Mitch Eadie replaced him, pleasingly). Isn't this more to do with the fact that the second leg of the Championship final is on 4 June? Surely to feck he cannot be injured again?

George Carlin wrote:

nickj wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:Such a shame if Rennie misses out on tour again. I've been looking at his stats for Bristol this season and he's been in prolific try scoring form, as well as racking up the playing time again.

I didn't know he was injured until the squad announcement. Do you know if its serious? ie his knee>?

Are we sure he's actually injured? He played for an hour in the last game against Rotherham (before Mitch Eadie replaced him, pleasingly). Isn't this more to do with the fact that the second leg of the Championship final is on 4 June? Surely to feck he cannot be injured again?

This is from the SRU release: "Jack Cuthbert and Matt Scott (both Edinburgh Rugby), Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) and Ross Rennie (Bristol Rugby) would have been included for the tour but for injury. Additional players could yet be added to the squads."

It goes onto say: "Kyle Traynor will join the squad after his club’s Greene King IPA Championship final second leg against London Welsh on Wednesday 4 June."

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:So Grant and Hall having some surgery done in the off-season?  Fairy muff

Bennett being called up to play 7s in the Commonwealth Games?  Pointless.  The lad needs exposure at the highest level and to push on

Agreed. A Commonwealth medal for the 7s team pales in comparison to Scotland having a better chance of success in the 6 Nations and RWC.

Re Rennie - good to see his existence as actually acknowledged by the SRU/coaching team   
It's one step at a time but before the AIs perhaps they might start to remember that guy in Wales named after a bank...

Argybargy wrote:Re Rennie - good to see his existence as actually acknowledged by the SRU/coaching team   
It's one step at a time but before the AIs perhaps they might start to remember that guy in Wales named after a bank...

But Lloyd Williams has already been capped by Wales!

Argybargy wrote:Re Rennie - good to see his existence as actually acknowledged by the SRU/coaching team   
It's one step at a time but before the AIs perhaps they might start to remember that guy in Wales named after a bank...

Could use a few Clydesdales to bulk up the pack, mind.

GLove39 wrote:

Argybargy wrote:Re Rennie - good to see his existence as actually acknowledged by the SRU/coaching team   
It's one step at a time but before the AIs perhaps they might start to remember that guy in Wales named after a bank...

But Lloyd Williams has already been capped by Wales!

  

Touche   

Sorry I seem to awakened a stream of banking jokes...I'll get me coat (with my leaving bonus in it of course)

nickj wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

nickj wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:Such a shame if Rennie misses out on tour again. I've been looking at his stats for Bristol this season and he's been in prolific try scoring form, as well as racking up the playing time again.

I didn't know he was injured until the squad announcement. Do you know if its serious? ie his knee>?

Are we sure he's actually injured? He played for an hour in the last game against Rotherham (before Mitch Eadie replaced him, pleasingly). Isn't this more to do with the fact that the second leg of the Championship final is on 4 June? Surely to feck he cannot be injured again?

This is from the SRU release: "Jack Cuthbert and Matt Scott (both Edinburgh Rugby), Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) and Ross Rennie (Bristol Rugby) would have been included for the tour but for injury. Additional players could yet be added to the squads."

It goes onto say: "Kyle Traynor will join the squad after his club’s Greene King IPA Championship final second leg against London Welsh on Wednesday 4 June."

Apparently he was seen leaving the stadium on crutches after the Rotherham game

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/latest/injury-fears-over-scotland-star-ross-rennie-1-3416581

Such a shame if it is serious. Was it Six Nations 2012 when he was playing immensely and then in the AIs had to go off against the All Blacks in the early minutes? I remember being so utterly disappointed that we couldn't see what he could do against McCaw

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:So Grant and Hall having some surgery done in the off-season?  Fairy muff

Bennett being called up to play 7s in the Commonwealth Games?  Pointless.  The lad needs exposure at the highest level and to push on

Sour grapes ASBO. Told you the kid would never make it.....

The split squads/whole tour looks a bit a of a mess. Not sure that this will help us much towards building towards the World Cup, but with the wasted time under Scott Johnson that ship has probably sailed.

Still, the punishing schedule will sort the wheat from the chaff, or the Glasgow players from the Edinburgh players to use a simpler analogy.

I really want to see Jonny Gray and Bob Harley have a proper crack at South Africa. That I'd look forward to.

Interestingly, the BBC has Cotter as fronting both squad selections as his own.


I also note Peter Wright's damagingly accurate comments about how properly mental it is to ever play the Springboks with anything other than a full strength squad.

So who is going to be captain? I would have Brown myself for the first part but who for the second? Cussitor?

What a mess, why not just play two Tests against Pumas and give Cotter a chance to get to know his squad and work with them rather than constantly jumping on planes and having the squad changing mid-tour.

Just more incompetence from the SRU under Dodson.

Worried about the state of the squad for USA on 7th June, considering 52% of the squad are playing in finals on the 31st in Europe.

George Carlin wrote:Interestingly, the BBC has Cotter as fronting both squad selections as his own.


I also note Peter Wright's damagingly accurate comments about how properly mental it is to ever play the Springboks with anything other than a full strength squad.

And bizarrely it turns out that Cotter is still in France, but hopes to meet up with the squad just before they travel to the States!   

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Interestingly, the BBC has Cotter as fronting both squad selections as his own.


I also note Peter Wright's damagingly accurate comments about how properly mental it is to ever play the Springboks with anything other than a full strength squad.

And bizarrely it turns out that Cotter is still in France, but hopes to meet up with the squad just before they travel to the States!   

That is a shame - maybe Clermont are being a stickler for his seeing out his whole contract, despite no games on?

Or maybe he's just busy trying to sell up in France and move to Scotland!

Either way it would have been good to have him in camp early.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Interestingly, the BBC has Cotter as fronting both squad selections as his own.


I also note Peter Wright's damagingly accurate comments about how properly mental it is to ever play the Springboks with anything other than a full strength squad.

And bizarrely it turns out that Cotter is still in France, but hopes to meet up with the squad just before they travel to the States!   

That is a shame - maybe Clermont are being a stickler for his seeing out his whole contract, despite no games on?

Or maybe he's just busy trying to sell up in France and move to Scotland!

Either way it would have been good to have him in camp early.

Maybe he's having a couple of final good meals before heading to Edinburgh for 3 years of square slice, black pudding and chopped bumhole kebabs.

bumhole kebabs??   

I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that it's not virgin Wagyu fillet in there.

George Carlin wrote:

I also note Peter Wright's damagingly accurate comments about how properly mental it is to ever play the Springboks with anything other than a full strength squad.

Perhaps the exception that proves the rule, however the last Scotland team to play in South Africa (Nelspruit) did very well and could have won the game, despite being a 2nd/3rd string side. Highlighted by Fraser Brown getting his first cap after only 40 odd minutes of professional rugby under his belt.

They certainly did better than the supposedly stronger Scotland team that played the Boks a few months later at Murrayfield.

I say give the youngsters a crack at the boks! At the very least, they'll learn something from the game!

So breaking the squad down even further, here is who leaving after the first leag and who is joining, plus who is doing the entire tour:

Leaving after North America

Allan, Traynor, Lawson, Gray snr, Hamilton, Beattie, Strokosh, Cowan, Cusiter, Laidlaw, Heathcoat, Russell, Taylor, Evans, Lamont, Visser,

Joining in Argentina

Dickinson, Ford, Welsh, Gray jnr, Swinson, Denton, Harley, Fusaro, Hart, Pyrgos, Jackson, Weir, Horne, Fife, Seymour, Murchie

Doing the whole tour

Reid, Bryce, McArthur, Cross, Low, Gilchrist, Dunbar, Maitland, Hogg

you know, the more I look at this thread, the more I think it is a shambles of a tour that has been arranged!

Cotters first games in charge (in some capacity) and we're not really going to learn very much from this!

RDW - thanks your tireless team analysis/sorting (assume you have finished that GOT box set by now).
Sorry for being Mr Thicky but how do know who is leaving after NA leg? Is an IRB window thing?
Thx

Wow - Sean Lamont and Tommy Seymour are in the 7s squad for the Commonwealth games!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Wow - Sean Lamont and Tommy Seymour are in the 7s squad for the Commonwealth games!

So this makes little sense? Schlong is incl for the North American leg, Seymour is included for the Arg/SA leg, and is included for neither, yet all three are in the 7s squad for the Commie games?! WTF?!

Perhaps with a long term view Bennet could do with a summer off? he is young nd has played a fair amount this season has he not?

.

RDW_Scotland wrote:7s squad

I like the look of that squad I have to say

RDW_Scotland wrote:So breaking the squad down even further, here is who leaving after the first leag and who is joining, plus who is doing the entire tour:

Leaving after North America

Allan, Traynor, Lawson, Gray snr, Hamilton, Beattie, Strokosh, Cowan, Cusiter, Laidlaw, Heathcoat, Russell, Taylor, Evans, Lamont, Visser,

Joining in Argentina

Dickinson, Ford, Welsh, Gray jnr, Swinson, Denton, Harley, Fusaro, Hart, Pyrgos, Jackson, Weir, Horne, Fife, Seymour, Murchie

Doing the whole tour

Reid, Bryce, McArthur, Cross, Low, Gilchrist, Dunbar, Maitland, Hogg

It's a bit of a shambles really, and I can't believe Cotter ok'd this schedule. It has the hallmarks of our Director of Rugby all over it.

By my calculations the XV for the first two matches is this:

1.Reid 2.MacArthur 3.Cross 4.Richie Gray 5.Hamilton 6.Strokosch 7.Cowan 8.Beattie 9.Laidlaw 10.Russell 11.Visser 12.Taylor 13.Dunbar 14.Maitland 15.Hogg

....and for Argentina and South Africa:

1.Reid 2.Ford 3.Welsh 4.Jonny Gray 5.Gilchrist 6.Harley 7.Fusaro 8.Denton 9.Hart 10.Jackson 11.Seymour 12.Horne 13.Dunbar 14.Maitland 15.Hogg

Argybargy wrote:RDW  - thanks your tireless team analysis/sorting (assume you have finished that GOT box set by now).
Sorry for being Mr Thicky but how do know who is leaving after NA leg? Is an IRB window thing?
Thx

Halfway through season 4 now but alas back at work today!   

Well I looked at the squad for the NA leg and the then one for the latter two games and looked at who was missing....!   

On a more serious answer, as the SA game is out with the IRB window, any player contracted to a new club as of the 1st of July can play against SA. Most new contracts will start before that though, with Jackson the only one who looks to be available.

Isnt season four the curent season?

Also, why has the mother of dragons not had her paps out in this season?

It is, and I thought she had? Given that I watched all of season 3 and up to the latest season 4 in the space of a few days I can't remember what happened when!

Although if you have read the books you will know there is a lot more of that to come from her....! (despite the unfortunate rumours that she has declined to do any more 'artistic nudity' that GoT does so much of)   

If she has declined then I say bin her and get some other sultly blonde in to take over!

Game of thones is not about the storyline.

Its not about character developement

It's about be-headings and boobies!

tigertattie wrote:If she has declined then I say bin her and get some other sultly blonde in to take over!

!

You take that back.

I have no problems banning you over GoT!

p.s. has this become the new 1872 thread again for random waffle?

1872 thread?

Every thread we get involved in becomes useless drivel!

PS, if she aint getting naked, what use is she???

tigertattie wrote:If she has declined then I say bin her and get some other sultly blonde in to take over!

Game of thones is not about the storyline.

Its not about character developement

It's about be-headings and boobies!

Tiger, do you mean "sultry" or "slutty" or has your fevered imagination elided the two?
Also, the storyline and character development in GoT are non-parriell as Macbeth would say. Typical MFL, all you can see is boobies and you miss what's really going on; Al Kellock? We don't want him. Ryan Grant? Why would we want him? Alex Allen? No potential there. By the way, how the fecc did the commoners from the west coast ever get into the final?

can anyone tell me which of these games is on telly ?

if so what channel ?

thanks

Sounds like there will be coverage but its yet to be announced

Sky sports are showing the games against South Africa and Argentina. Would guess espn will show the Canada and USA game as they tend to be the ones to broadcast North American rugby.

wonder if Alba will pick anything up?

Hope they get the people who did the Fiji game 2 years ago. Wasnt that a great feeling, up bleary eyed in the early hours watching a feed that occasionally went from colour to black and white and from rugby to football!

That commentator will live long in my memory. I would bet all of the money in my pocket that he'd had a few sharpeners beforehand. He sounded like a cross between Nigel Starmer-Smith and Stuart Hall from It's A Knockout. I nearly cried when he confidently pronounced that Al Kellock played for "the Glasgow Rangers".

The Fiji and Samoa games at 3am were my favourite v2 forum memories of all time!   

I also loved it when, whilst talking about Al Kellock of the Glasgow Rangers, it was actually R. Gray who had the ball...

Also worth noting that it was the Fiji game that we first came across a certain mental Fijian with a Fresh Prince haircut....

Ah yes, the "Flying Fijians". Great commentary. If only Bill McLaren knew that the secret to great commentary was to get hammered before the game......

I suspect the Canada and US games will be the ones to watch. We'll each need a stiff drink before the South Africa contest I suspect.

Good news everyone.

Planet Rugby wrote:Argentina have excluded almost all their overseas-based players for the upcoming June Tests against Ireland and Scotland.

Pumas head coach Daniel Hourcade has announced a squad of 31 players for the three-Test series with a only sprinkling of regular members of the first-choice senior squad such as Nicolas Sanchez (Bordeaux), Manuel Carizza (Stormers) and Matias Diaz (Highlanders).
Of the 13 foreign-based players called up to prepare for the Rugby Championship in Pensacola, Florida, only Castres prop Ramiro Herrera will feature in June.

We should now be looking at 3 wins from 4 for the summer tour.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Ah yes, the "Flying Fijians". Great commentary. If only Bill McLaren knew that the secret to great commentary was to get hammered before the game......

There was whisky in those Hawick Balls that he had though, wasn't there?

God, I hope that everyone knows what I'm referring to.