Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[super_realist]

First topic message reminder :

Rugby players are too fat to catch us Davie.

[super_realist]

I would taunt her relentlessly about it and goad her about her inability to back her beliefs up.

[MontysMerkin]

Not interested in Africa?? I did a Kenya Safari for my honeymoon, it was the best holiday i have ever had, just amazing.

I would like to go to New Zealand. Or for a luxury break the Maldives.

Went to the Masai Mara last year and like you say bloody amazing! Was not looking forward to it to be honest (white mans guilt I s'pose) but we were really well treated and the safari was cool as fook. Camped in tents on the riverbanks with no fences!!!! Bloody great hippos wandering about and the camp was invaded by elephants one night. lost about a stone in weight due to fright!

[skyeman]

I would taunt her relentlessly about it and goad her about her inability to back her beliefs up.

I do when i am brave after a drink  But she can have a sharp tongue.

Then i say "well that is not very christian" pis*es her off even more 

[super_realist]

Ha ha, It might be quite entertaining to go out with a religitard after all.

[westisbest]

C'mon SR it would'nt last a day:)

[skyeman]

Former Czechoslovakia was beautiful when i went there in 85 aged 18. Felt very rich, especially when a hotel porter gave me( Czech money, six times worth the sterling i gave him) and then at the airport, they would not let me take it out!

Still got the five hundred pounds worth of Czech lead crystal 

[incontinentia]

I would taunt her relentlessly about it and goad her about her inability to back her beliefs up.

I do when i am brave after a drink  But she can have a sharp tongue.

Then i say "well that is not very christian" pis*es her off even more 

you should slap her on the butt and if she gets angry tell her to turn the other cheek.

[GunsGerms]

Your wife does have a right to her pro-life pro-foetus beliefs. I have listened to both sides of the debate on a few occasions and both sides make good points so therefore it isnt a clear cut issue for me.

Cue outrage. Haha

I've not seen you make a single good pro abortion point. You keep saying you've heard them, you keep saying that we need society to provide a moral compass, but you haven't given any reasons why that's applicable to taking away the right of a woman to abort.

I never claimed to be pro abortion (or anti abortion). However, I have actually made a few pro abortion points such as crime rates etc.

[GunsGerms]

Your wife does have a right to her pro-life pro-foetus beliefs. I have listened to both sides of the debate on a few occasions and both sides make good points so therefore it isnt a clear cut issue for me.

Cue outrage. Haha

Well, should it not be upto the individual?

Makes it odd at times for me, as i am an atheist and the wife is a christian. If i say "for christs sake" i get told off  

If it is up to the individual then who protects the rights of the unborn?

[Diggers]

Your wife does have a right to her pro-life pro-foetus beliefs. I have listened to both sides of the debate on a few occasions and both sides make good points so therefore it isnt a clear cut issue for me.

Cue outrage. Haha

Well, should it not be upto the individual?

Makes it odd at times for me, as i am an atheist and the wife is a christian. If i say "for christs sake" i get told off  

If it is up to the individual then who protects the rights of the unborn?

Clearly someone who feels justified in dumping them into a world they are not wanted in and then walks away from the situation feeling morally superior. In other words...a tool.

[super_realist]

Why should an unborn have rights over the owner of the body?

[super_realist]

Your wife does have a right to her pro-life pro-foetus beliefs. I have listened to both sides of the debate on a few occasions and both sides make good points so therefore it isnt a clear cut issue for me.

Cue outrage. Haha

Well, should it not be upto the individual?

Makes it odd at times for me, as i am an atheist and the wife is a christian. If i say "for christs sake" i get told off  

If it is up to the individual then who protects the rights of the unborn?

Clearly someone who feels justified in dumping them into a world they are not wanted in and then walks away from the situation feeling morally superior. In other words...a tool.

or a catholic.

[GunsGerms]

Why should an unborn have rights over the owner of the body?

I dont. Therefore if the mothers life is at risk then have an abortion but their unborn should have rights over their own life.

[super_realist]

No, the embryo does not have the right to determine whether the mother should remain pregnant.

Until they are 24 weeks, they have no rights at all.

[GunsGerms]

Clearly someone who feels justified in dumping them into a world they are not wanted in and then walks away from the situation feeling morally superior. In other words...a tool.

Thats a bit dramatic no?

[Diggers]

No, it actually a huge understatement.

[GunsGerms]

No, the embryo does not have the right to determine whether the mother should remain pregnant.

Until they are 24 weeks, they have no rights at all.

Correct, under UK law which you accept to be flawless?

[super_realist]

In regard to Abortion, I don't see anything wrong with it, but then I'm not a bible thumping loony who thinks I have a right to determine what other people can do with their own bodies.

[GunsGerms]

In regard to Abortion, I don't see anything wrong with it, but then I'm not a bible thumping loony who thinks I have a right to determine what other people can do with their own bodies.

So basically if someone doesnt agree with you they are a bible thumping looney?

Can I assume you are a supporter of euthanasia in that case if you think people should be able to do whatever they want with their bodies?

[skyeman]

As i have said to the wife, a woman would feel bad enough, why should she be made to feel worse because of others (people, she will never know) because of their beliefs.

Just not right.


And those in America that have killed doctors because of it. Is that insane or what.

[super_realist]

Yes, I am a supporter of Euthanasia. It isn't any of my business if someone wants to end their life. Why would I object to it? Actually, not just why, HOW could I object to it?

It tends to be those of a religious disposition that object to these things.

[skyeman]

In regard to Abortion, I don't see anything wrong with it, but then I'm not a bible thumping loony who thinks I have a right to determine what other people can do with their own bodies.

So basically if someone doesnt agree with you they are a bible thumping looney?

Can I assume you are a supporter of euthanasia in that case if you think people should be able to do whatever they want with their bodies?

I am, why would you want to make people suffer if they don't?

[GunsGerms]

In regard to Abortion, I don't see anything wrong with it, but then I'm not a bible thumping loony who thinks I have a right to determine what other people can do with their own bodies.

So basically if someone doesnt agree with you they are a bible thumping looney?

Can I assume you are a supporter of euthanasia in that case if you think people should be able to do whatever they want with their bodies?

I am, why would you want to make people suffer if they don't?

Are UK laws antiquated and out dated when it comes to euthanasia? Is UK law too heavily influenced by religion in this respect in your opinion?

[GunsGerms]

Yes, I am a supporter of Euthanasia. It isn't any of my business if someone wants to end their life. Why would I object to it? Actually, not just why, HOW could I object to it?

It tends to be those of a religious disposition that object to these things.

Are UK laws antiquated and out dated when it comes to euthanasia? Is UK law too heavily influenced by religion in this respect in your opinion?

[super_realist]

In regard to Abortion, I don't see anything wrong with it, but then I'm not a bible thumping loony who thinks I have a right to determine what other people can do with their own bodies.

So basically if someone doesnt agree with you they are a bible thumping looney?

Can I assume you are a supporter of euthanasia in that case if you think people should be able to do whatever they want with their bodies?

I am, why would you want to make people suffer if they don't?

Are UK laws antiquated and out dated when it comes to euthanasia? Is UK law too heavily influenced by religion in this respect in your opinion?

Absolutely they are outdated. I've never asserted that UK laws are flawless.

By saying I think they have their Abortion laws correct by no means leads me to think that the current laws on euthanasia are correct.
I don't think euthanasia is particularly a religious issue in the modern/dignitas sense in the same way abortion is in Ireland which is tied in with the Catholic view on contraception.

[skyeman]

In regard to Abortion, I don't see anything wrong with it, but then I'm not a bible thumping loony who thinks I have a right to determine what other people can do with their own bodies.

So basically if someone doesnt agree with you they are a bible thumping looney?

Can I assume you are a supporter of euthanasia in that case if you think people should be able to do whatever they want with their bodies?

I am, why would you want to make people suffer if they don't?

Are UK laws antiquated and out dated when it comes to euthanasia? Is UK law too heavily influenced by religion in this respect in your opinion?

YES GG, i do feel so. They even force people to go to other countries in severe pain.

And Cameron recently said "we are a christian country" which was met with a storm. In another subject, in 100 years GB will be a muslim main religion country if the trend continues.

That, i am concerned about.

[GunsGerms]

I already evidenced for you that abortion laws in Ireland are derived from UK law from when Ireland was under British rule. Im not religious, I have not been to a church unless to go to a wedding but I find the debate interesting, both sides of the debate.

I know you are desperate to cling on to the belief that people that oppose your view must be deeply religious but that simply isnt the case. Abortion is legal in Spain and Italy two of the most Catholic countries in the world.

[super_realist]

Someone ought to envoke rules that religion doesn't have influence on society.

Get rid of faith schools etc.

If you want to be religious, do it in your home/church, it has no place anywhere else.

[super_realist]

I already evidenced for you that abortion laws in Ireland are derived from UK law from when Ireland was under British rule. Im not religious, I have not been to a church unless to go to a wedding but I find the debate interesting, both sides of the debate.

I know you are desperate to cling on to the belief that people that oppose your view must be deeply religious but that simply isnt the case. Abortion is legal in Spain and Italy two of the most Catholic countries in the world.

That might be true, but I'm pretty sure it is maintained as a result of their religious culture.
I can't comment on Spain or Italy, perhaps they are a bit more progressive and less dictatorial in their outlook than Ireland.

[GunsGerms]

Someone ought to envoke rules that religion doesn't have influence on society.

Get rid of faith schools etc.

If you want to be religious, do it in your home/church, it has no place anywhere else.

I am all for multi or non denominational schools myself. I would prefer it for my son as I want him to have an open mind. Parts of Ireland can be painfully narrow minded.

I dont have the same fear of religion that you seem to though as like a lot of belief systems it has pros and cons. Most religious people as I said before are a la carte religious with the ability to use their own moral compass too.

In my opinion a radical athiest is just as bad as a radical religious person.

[skyeman]

Someone ought to envoke rules that religion doesn't have influence on society.

Get rid of faith schools etc.

If you want to be religious, do it in your home/church, it has no place anywhere else.

I am all for multi or non denominational schools myself. I would prefer it for my son as I want him to have an open mind. Parts of Ireland can be painfully narrow minded.

I dont have the same fear of religion that you seem to though as like a lot of belief systems it has pros and cons. Most religious people as I said before are a la carte religious with the ability to use their own moral compass too.

In my opinion a radical athiest is just as bad as a radical religious person.

Never heard of a radical athiests killing hundreds of thousands for their way of thinking  

[super_realist]

Guns,
I am of the opinion that people can have whatever beliefs they want, but I don't have to have any respect for them and they don't get to assert that they are true.

For me, a belief in god is exactly the same as one in bigfoot or alien abductions, and we make no provision for them in society/education/politics.

Atheism is simply the rejection of a claim that a god exists, exactly the same as abigfootism, or alochnessmonsterism.

I don't think there is anything wrong with NOT believing anything until there is sufficient evidence, and you certainly shouldn't make provision in society/education/politics for something which has absolutely ZERO evidence like Religion.

[GunsGerms]

Never heard of a radical athiests killing hundreds of thousands for their way of thinking  

I reckon you could probably argue that Hitler was somewhat athiest.

[skyeman]

Never heard of a radical athiests killing hundreds of thousands for their way of thinking  

I reckon you could probably argue that Hitler was somewhat athiest.

I knew that would come. And in many of his writings he still held on to his Catholic mothers views as well as his psychotic tendancies.

[GunsGerms]

Guns,
I am of the opinion that people can have whatever beliefs they want, but I don't have to have any respect for them and they don't get to assert that they are true.

For me, a belief in god is exactly the same as one in bigfoot or alien abductions, and we make no provision for them in society/education/politics.

Atheism is simply the rejection of a claim that a god exists, exactly the same as abigfootism, or alochnessmonsterism.

I don't think there is anything wrong with NOT believing anything until there is sufficient evidence, and you certainly shouldn't make provision in society/education/politics for something which has absolutely ZERO evidence like Religion.

Is having no respect for ones beliefs the same as disrespecting their beliefs?

In any case as mentioned all religious references were removed from the Irish constitution around 40 years ago so your claims are unfounded. Religion of course is an infulence but it doesnt have any legal powers in Ireland anyway.

[GunsGerms]

Never heard of a radical athiests killing hundreds of thousands for their way of thinking  

I reckon you could probably argue that Hitler was somewhat athiest.

I knew that would come. And in many of his writings he still held on to his Catholic mothers views as well as his psychotic tendancies.

He was also quite critical of christianity and catholicism. Goebbels wrote in 1941 that Hitler "hates Christianity, because it has crippled all that is noble in humanity." - Had to google that one. Anyway with Hitler Im sure you could make a lot of claims.

[super_realist]

Never heard of a radical athiests killing hundreds of thousands for their way of thinking  

I reckon you could probably argue that Hitler was somewhat athiest.

No, Hitler was a Catholic, and his party was heavily supported by the Catholic Church, What's worse is that no Nazi was thrown out of the church for killing jews, but they were for marrying a protestant.

in any event, even if he was an Atheist (and he wasn't), he didn't do what he did in the name of Atheism.

[skyeman]

Never heard of a radical athiests killing hundreds of thousands for their way of thinking  

I reckon you could probably argue that Hitler was somewhat athiest.

I knew that would come. And in many of his writings he still held on to his Catholic mothers views as well as his psychotic tendancies.

He was also quite critical of christianity and catholicism. Goebbels wrote in 1941 that Hitler "hates Christianity, because it has crippled all that is noble in humanity." - Had to google that one. Anyway with Hitler Im sure you could make a lot of claims.

True, best to leave him out of it.

He was not an atheist so a moot point.

[super_realist]

Guns,
I am of the opinion that people can have whatever beliefs they want, but I don't have to have any respect for them and they don't get to assert that they are true.

For me, a belief in god is exactly the same as one in bigfoot or alien abductions, and we make no provision for them in society/education/politics.

Atheism is simply the rejection of a claim that a god exists, exactly the same as abigfootism, or alochnessmonsterism.

I don't think there is anything wrong with NOT believing anything until there is sufficient evidence, and you certainly shouldn't make provision in society/education/politics for something which has absolutely ZERO evidence like Religion.

Is having no respect for ones beliefs the same as disrespecting their beliefs?

In any case as mentioned all religious references were removed from the Irish constitution around 40 years ago so your claims are unfounded. Religion of course is an infulence but it doesnt have any legal powers in Ireland anyway.

No, if they keep their beliefs to themselves and don't assert them as true, no problem.
I have zero respect for religion as a belief system though.

Ireland may be politically secular in actual terms, but you're right that many people will still make laws based on their religious beliefs. So it is still influential, and that's ghastly when you consider there is ZERO justification for religion.

[skyeman]

Guns,
I am of the opinion that people can have whatever beliefs they want, but I don't have to have any respect for them and they don't get to assert that they are true.

For me, a belief in god is exactly the same as one in bigfoot or alien abductions, and we make no provision for them in society/education/politics.

Atheism is simply the rejection of a claim that a god exists, exactly the same as abigfootism, or alochnessmonsterism.

I don't think there is anything wrong with NOT believing anything until there is sufficient evidence, and you certainly shouldn't make provision in society/education/politics for something which has absolutely ZERO evidence like Religion.

Is having no respect for ones beliefs the same as disrespecting their beliefs?

In any case as mentioned all religious references were removed from the Irish constitution around 40 years ago so your claims are unfounded. Religion of course is an infulence but it doesnt have any legal powers in Ireland anyway.

No, if they keep their beliefs to themselves and don't assert them as true, no problem.
I have zero respect for religion as a belief system though.

Ireland may be politically secular in actual terms, but you're right that many people will still make laws based on their religious beliefs.  So it is still influential, and that's ghastly when you consider there is ZERO justification for religion.

100% ghastly, when others have NO evidence to their views. Incomprehensible to me.

[super_realist]

Bit like how it was mostly religious against gay marriage the other week.

Why do they think their opinions matter and should shape policy based on a fairytale fictional book? Mind your own bloody business.

If you don't like gay marriage, here's an idea. Don't marry a gay person.

[skyeman]

Anyways, thoughtful chat guys. My normal thing is never talk about politics or religion with friends. Had too many arguments that get a bit heated.

So i love doing it here.  

[GunsGerms]

Bit like how it was mostly religious against gay marriage the other week.

Why do they think their opinions matter and should shape policy based on a fairytale fictional book? Mind your own bloody business.

If you don't like gay marriage, here's an idea. Don't marry a gay person.

Do you honestly think that its just religious people that are anti-gays?

Why are your views so rigid on religion when the reality is that religious people have a wide spectrum of beliefs from extreme to quite liberal?

In every purely secular demographic you will have a wide range of views too.

[skyeman]

Bit like how it was mostly religious against gay marriage the other week.

Why do they think their opinions matter and should shape policy based on a fairytale fictional book? Mind your own bloody business.

If you don't like gay marriage, here's an idea. Don't marry a gay person.

Do you honestly think that its just religious people that are anti-gays?

Why are your views so rigid on religion when the reality is that religious people have a wide spectrum of beliefs from extreme to quite liberal?

In every purely secular demographic you will have a wide range of views too.

One last thing, got to agree with GG on the gay issue. Not just a religious thing. Many, many feel that way.

Why should a minister/priest or whoever be forced into going against their beliefs?

But each to their own.

[westisbest]

Bit like how it was mostly religious against gay marriage the other week.

Why do they think their opinions matter and should shape policy based on a fairytale fictional book? Mind your own bloody business. If you don't like gay marriage, here's an idea. Don't marry a gay person.

 
Think you should do the same mate.
 
Calm down dude.
 
Why does it bother you so much if you hate it, dont care about it.
 
I dont care for religion much, but I dont bang on about it all the time.
 
C'mon super duper, whats the real issue.
 
You can share it with us, we wont tell:)

[super_realist]

Bit like how it was mostly religious against gay marriage the other week.

Why do they think their opinions matter and should shape policy based on a fairytale fictional book? Mind your own bloody business.

If you don't like gay marriage, here's an idea. Don't marry a gay person.

Do you honestly think that its just religious people that are anti-gays?

Why are your views so rigid on religion when the reality is that religious people have a wide spectrum of beliefs from extreme to quite liberal?

In every purely secular demographic you will have a wide range of views too.

Obviously not entirely, there will be lots of people who are non religious who think like that too, but having listened to all the phone in, seen interviews, question time etc, the clamour by religious people against it was nauseating.
You'd find many people opposed to both abortion and gay marriage arrive at that belief through religion.



Marriage didn't even come from religion, so how can religion try and dictate who should and shouldn't get married?

Why am I so strident against religion? If people make claims and try and force their views on society and politics, when there is no reason for them to hold those views, damned right I'm going to be furious about it.

[GunsGerms]

100% ghastly, when others have NO evidence to their views. Incomprehensible to me.

Gents with respect you seem to have convinced yourselves that it is much more a factor than it really is. Religion is just a set of beliefs or morals. Some of these beliefs may have shaped the collective Irish psyche but no laws can be passed without logical debate and due legal process which has no religious basis.

[super_realist]

Bit like how it was mostly religious against gay marriage the other week.

Why do they think their opinions matter and should shape policy based on a fairytale fictional book? Mind your own bloody business.

If you don't like gay marriage, here's an idea. Don't marry a gay person.

Do you honestly think that its just religious people that are anti-gays?

Why are your views so rigid on religion when the reality is that religious people have a wide spectrum of beliefs from extreme to quite liberal?

In every purely secular demographic you will have a wide range of views too.

One last thing, got to agree with GG on the gay issue. Not just a religious thing. Many, many feel that way.

Why should a minister/priest or whoever be forced into going against their beliefs?

But each to their own.

Nobody is forcing a priest or church to hold a gay wedding. Just like the R&A can not admit Women members, a "club" can exclude who it likes.
THe issue is whether religion can try and influence law, and obviously it shouldn't.

[GunsGerms]

Why am I so strident against religion? If people make claims and try and force their views on society and politics, when there is no reason for them to hold those views, damned right I'm going to be furious about it.

Does your government not force their views on you to a certain extent? Do you hate politicians too?

[skyeman]

Bit like how it was mostly religious against gay marriage the other week.

Why do they think their opinions matter and should shape policy based on a fairytale fictional book? Mind your own bloody business. If you don't like gay marriage, here's an idea. Don't marry a gay person.

 
Think you should do the same mate.
 
Calm down dude.
 
Why does it bother you so much if you hate it, dont care about it.
 
I dont care for religion much, but I dont bang on about it all the time.
 
C'mon super duper, whats the real issue.
 
You can share it with us, we wont tell:)

  

You sound like my psychologist  

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