Tournament Format

With boxing’s current championship system too complex to make sense of, it would appear that promoters are pinning their hopes on the tournament format in an attempt to bring boxing back into the mainstream.
 
The Super Six was a success and we’ve since seen Prizefighter grabbing decent viewing figures for Sky. Channel Five (aided by Hennessy) have now invested in a light heavyweight tournament; there was the Monte Carlo competition (won by Edwin Rodriguez) and there’s also a heavyweight tournament in the offing (involving the likes of Sprott, Rogan and Peter).
 
Could we ever see a move away from the historical system boxing has employed -- a sort of king of the castle approach – towards a tournament-style method employed in other sports?
 
For example: If Showtime green-lit another Super Six tournament, Ward would probably be joined by a lot of the original field, however, that could be shaken up with the introduction of Golovkin, Chavez and Quillin. If he could repeat his victory, he’d be a two-time tournament winner (which might carry more weight than being hailed a ten time alphabet title holder).
 
Long-term, has the championship system had its day?

I don't want to see a format change...............I want to see HBO, Showtime and the cable networks deciding the WBO or one of the other three is surplus ........So we can get back to a manageable three or even better two World bodies and Champions defending against challengers..

Fights need to mean something !!......Or what is the point..

Boxing will only change when the networks have had enough.........Promoters love Boxing at the moment..

The super six worked for me because it made a bunch of the best guys fight each other. Any format that encourages this is ok in my book. The super six had plenty of problems with injuries, withdrawals, venues, etc, but when you think about it, it basically decided the SMW pecking order. A clear pecking order is something we don't even have in many divisions, which is nonsense.

Quite possibly but I would prefer a championship format to bring up the new talent - for the top 6-8 it would be grand slams otherwise there wouldn't be enough boxers to make the tourneys a worthy one

I'd love to see a heavyweight elimination tournament (with Klitschko waiting at the end of it).

Fury vs Chisora
Stiverne vs Arreola
Pulev vs Helenius
Wilder/Povetkin vs Thompson/Solis

Unlike the Super Six we'd get to a final four pretty quickly.

I'd love for the heavyweight division to disappear........

Chisora is 6-4 and in with a shout of becoming world champion........

Almost makes you cry..

hazharrison wrote:I'd love to see a heavyweight elimination tournament (with Klitschko waiting at the end of it).

Fury vs Chisora
Stiverne vs Arreola
Pulev vs Helenius
Wilder/Povetkin vs Thompson/Solis

Unlike the Super Six we'd get to a final four pretty quickly.

It would be great. I wonder who Klitschko would fight in the mean time? And, you'd maybe have to be concerned about what sort of state the winner comes out at before what would be the hardest fight of their career against Wlad.

How annoying would it be if Thompson won the tournament (having already been blitzed by Wlad twice)?

Still, I'd be all for compelling matches like these getting made and worrying about the future details later. I doubt the promoters would have the same attitude mind.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I'd love for the heavyweight division to disappear........

Chisora is 6-4 and in with a shout of becoming world champion........

Almost makes you cry..

It is, truly, the worst era in history.

Boxtthis wrote:

hazharrison wrote:I'd love to see a heavyweight elimination tournament (with Klitschko waiting at the end of it).

Fury vs Chisora
Stiverne vs Arreola
Pulev vs Helenius
Wilder/Povetkin vs Thompson/Solis

Unlike the Super Six we'd get to a final four pretty quickly.

It would be great. I wonder who Klitschko would fight in the mean time? And, you'd maybe have to be concerned about what sort of state the winner comes out at before what would be the hardest fight of their career against Wlad.

How annoying would it be if Thompson won the tournament (having already been blitzed by Wlad twice)?

Still, I'd be all for compelling matches like these getting made and worrying about the future details later. I doubt the promoters would have the same attitude mind.

Well, he keeps managing to find people I've never heard of, so I'm sure he'd be Ok!

HBO very nearly bankrolled a tournament in the 90s as the division was supposedly in disarray (makes you laugh/cry looking back now). It would have involved Bowe, Holyfield, Lewis, Morrison and a few others -- possibly Foreman. They were desperately trying to counteract King's monopoly on the alphabet belts (which he was keeping safe for Tyson).

Holyfield-Bowe 3 was actually announced as being for the People's Heavyweight Championship or something if memory serves me correct.

The problem with a Tournament format is the length of time it would take if top guys fight 2-3 times a year. It would be great to see but impractical unfortunately. I think it would make better fights happen and make an unbeaten record really mean something as you could potentially have several top unbeaten guys like Floyd, Garcia, Bradley and Thurman all in the same competition and so only one is coming out unbeaten. Also some lower level fights might end up having a lot more meaning if you know Floyd and a career high purse is waiting in the next round if you get through.

The problem with a tournament is pay !!!

We used to have tournaments back in the day in the coliseum in LA..........16 boxers on the periphery of the top 10 would battle it out and I think the winner either got the USBA strap or a shot at it as well as a big first prize......

Remember Rodolfo Aguilar who lost to Chavez in a WBA light fight winning one or getting to the final......

However If I'm marketable I'll want three times more for a big elimination fight as someone who isn't.......Ie Tony Tucker and Michael Spinks...

Makes it logistically hard........as we saw with Spinks in the HBO tournament..

bellchees wrote:The problem with a Tournament format is the length of time it would take if top guys fight 2-3 times a year. It would be great to see but impractical unfortunately. I think it would make better fights happen and make an unbeaten record really mean something as you could potentially have several top unbeaten guys like Floyd, Garcia, Bradley and Thurman all in the same competition and so only one is coming out unbeaten. Also some lower level fights might end up having a lot more meaning if you know Floyd and a career high purse is waiting in the next round if you get through.

Maybe it would encourage the "elite" to fight more often if the timescales were set and the winner was guaranteed a huge fee?

A welterweight tournament would be unreal.

The other issue is what happens when fighters get too injured to continue? We had Taylor pull our due to serious concussion and replacements like Johnson drafted in. The Super Six took 2 years to complete and the ending was an anti climax. Do we really want to endure that all over again (even if it's done with the best of intentions)?

The thought of watching Tyson Fury competing on a regular and high profile basis is enough to make me want to disembowel someone by going through their eye sockets....where's STEFFAN?

DAVE667 wrote:The other issue is what happens when fighters get too injured to continue? We had Taylor pull our due to serious concussion and replacements like Johnson drafted in. The Super Six took 2 years to complete and the ending was an anti climax. Do we really want to endure that all over again (even if it's done with the best of intentions)?

The thought of watching Tyson Fury competing on a regular and high profile basis is enough to make me want to disembowel someone by going through their eye sockets....where's STEFFAN?

The Super Six had it's problems but so many positives to take away as well. Without it I think Abraham and Kessler would have stayed at home knocking over cans, Ward and Dirrell would have been held back for another few years before coming into title contention even though as the Super Six showed they could mix it with the top guys. I don't think Froch's career pans out much differently without it other than he may not meet Ward or Dirrell when he did which would have done him a lot of favours. It just created a lot of fights between the top guys. Taylor travelling to Germany, Kessler to America and Dirrell to England all things that don't happen without the Super 6.

Would be a decent idea to establish divisional supremacy but beyond that it seems fairly unworkable, the old one belt system worked ok but whenever money is concerned it won't be perfect.

The other issue with a tournament is that those not involved get locked out of the title scene for a couple of years.

The super 6 took to long to complete in the 2-3 years that it was on for there were claims that bute was actually the best in the world even though he wasn't in it! If you take the likes of the LWW division or middleweight division! Garcia and golovkin would not be in the tournament if it started in 2011 and wouldn't be aswell known as there wins that got them to there ranking now would not of happened!

I like the idea of it but there's to many holes, who ranks the top 6 fighters? Chavez for instance is probably not top 6 but the tv company's and everyone else would want him in it

Although the super six had many complex problems , withdrawals , replacements , duration etc and I agree with Dave an anti climax feel about it, it still created an agreed consensus Andre Ward is number 1. If we can establish clarity for every division whose number 1 , then that sounds fine by me. The duration needs speeding up, maybes run it as an immediate elimination tournament even possibly seeded,
Don Kings middleweight semi final in the early noughties for example.


Cheers Rodders

The Super Six was a round robin format initially -- hence the complications. A straight quarter final format would be far easier to administer (if someone pulls out there'd be a replacement ready to step in).

Rodney wrote:Although the super six had many complex problems , withdrawals , replacements , duration etc and I agree with Dave an anti climax feel about it, it still created an agreed consensus Andre Ward is number 1. If we can establish clarity for every division whose number 1 , then that sounds fine by me. The duration needs speeding up, maybes run it as an immediate elimination tournament even possibly seeded,
Don Kings middleweight semi final in the early noughties for example.


Cheers Rodders

Totally agree on this. It's easy to focus on the negatives, but it forced a bunch of great fights and gave us a consensus no.1. There is also scope for some form of extra legacy benefit in having one or two decent guys that weren't in the tournament fight some of the participants after the tournament is done. Remember the clamor for Bute to fight the S6 winner? He ended up fighting Froch, but it was a big, and exciting, fight. So much good has come of the S6 - far outweighing the complications.

The main lesson from it has to be that the round-robin style is too length and precarious. Single elimination 8 men (or even 4 men) tournaments would be the way to do it*

*just noticed Haz said the same thing above  

The main lesson from it has to be that the round-robin style is too length and precarious. Single elimination 8 men (or even 4 men) tournaments would be the way to do it*

Yes, it could be held over the course of an evening and the contestants would know they were fighting for a prize...but what would it be called and why hasn't someone already thought of this concept.

Oh the world of boxing cries out for a savvy operator to come up with a fast flowing and conclusive concept to aide us in our darkest hour.

King's middleweight tournament is a good example. Hopkins was very much an outsider -- relatively unknown -- and earning peanuts until it legitimised him (and made him the middleweight champion).

Boxing's never been more niche and less easily accessible as it is right now. TV networks would have to go for it, though, and agree to share the matches (I guess). Unless (as has been rumoured) Al Haymon jumps ship to HBO and takes the entire US boxing contingent with him.

I think tournaments have a place but I can imagine for every super 6 success out there (and to me it was a success and launched a superstar) but inevitably whatever the format boxing takes, the money men will find a way for it to benefit them!

The championship system has definitely had its day. Its completely unworkable and irrelevant now as a system with so many belts. If they could manage to get workable tournaments running regularly you would think the should be able to get a proper championship system running though. A complete overhaul of the current belt system.

Who's they Mate ?

TV and TV alone can kill the alphabets and the more World titles there are.......The more they can pick and choose which to showcase !!

How does it serve cable stations to have one champion ?.......Because with one champ per division they'd all be on Showtime and HBO..Apart from the Oriental ones.. and who wants them...

See the problem ??

It would involve a bit of long term thinking and strategy, but ultimately the sport would be better off. I dont believe every fight needs some kind of title on the line to be of public interest.

But arguably the current mess has been around long enough for the damage to have been done. Younger generations of boxing fans have been conditioned to buy into the current numerous titles, multi weight and pound for pound schtick that is used now.

Problem is, for every theory about how tournaments could work there are as many that fix the current championship approach. In simplest terms the current problems are the bodies and the promoters. Both formats would need radical over hauls of these. An Arum tournament at the moment would end up with Marquez vs Manny 15 or something ridiculous. Its the fight that makes money