Joe Schmidt responds to Denis Leamy's parochial rant!!

First topic message reminder :

Leamy's article prior to the Ireland game in which he claimed there was a Leinster bias which could harm our WC chances:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/denis-leamy-questions-schmidt-selection-30091421.html

Schmidts response:
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/joe-schmidt-denies-having-a-leinster-bias-1.1729932

“For me, I select Irish players. If people want to differentiate, if people want to divide that provincially, that’s their prerogative,” he said. “But, as a group, we’re just trying to select the Irish national team. If people are going to be distracted by provincial loyalties, then that is something that is certainly not happening within the group.

“I think there has been a super unity within the group. It is probably always disappointing to get criticised. I can totally understand the perception. But, what I can totally guarantee is that we have all the stats, we watch all the games and we try to do as much homework as we possibly can.”

Sin é wrote:The irony in this part of your post is something else : ''Irish players have been mocked and laughed at and sneered - often by our own countrymen - and all because we were embarrassed into self-hating submission by the fancy sides with fancy fitness regimes and better coaching panels.''

Spot it for me there, Sin ...I'm blinded by Joe's Divine Light.

let me guess................ I attack the laughers....but laugh at players myself?

I laugh at player habits and player topics, and player intrigues.  I've praised far more Munster players openly and publically in my time here than you'll ever get round to doing about Leinster ones.

So yes, I am refering to you...for it is you and a few more who often hoisted them Welsh lads high above the dross poor Kidney had to work with.  The decent but sub-standard Provincials against the International Class World Class Wizards of Pop Welsh Dragons.  Kidney didn't stand a chance with his shower of goons.

No, what you all think is this. Foreign Good (coach, players etc), Homegrown/Irish bad. We will only win something if we are coached by a kiwi. An Irish coach would never be able to give the players enough confidence to do that. Kiwis good. Irish bad. etc. etc.

And its getting worse. It seems David Nucifora is going to be the new IRFU High Performance Director on 300K a year.

SecretFly wrote:No - we've always had the players to compete through most of the Provinces.  We certainly have always had the players to compete on a level footing with our NH colleagues.  And as Welsh players were being bathed in excessive rubbish about their superman abilities, I kept saying these guys get beaten week in and week out by Irish players - and often second string Irish players at that.

Fly I'm not sure about this - you see a lot of our players are physically inferior to some other sides, which is why Schmidt is better than Kidney is because rather than ignoring this and recruiting someone like Gert Smal to turn us into the NHs answer to South Africa he's got us working on the basics of the game and technique - using natural strengths like our fitness and low centre of gravities to good effect in the contact and mauls.

Gatland mocked us two seasons ago because he knew two eternal truths - small players don't run over bigger ones and slow players don't run around faster ones.

Schmidt turned the tables by not running at them at all and leaving him totally sucker punched and chasing shadows.

But this is not the end game - Joe knows that physically we need to improve, that's why the forwards have been doing brutal sessions to toughen them up and the improvement is already showing. There's a few heavy hitters (Ferris, O'Brien) and young(ish) speedsters itching to return or step up and that will give us more options -but we can't base a game plan around them because if they get injured it all goes to pot.

Work on your weaknesses but play to your strengths is what we are doing as opposed to ignore your weaknesses and play whatever way the players want, which is a mistake we made too often in the past.

Sin é wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Sin é wrote:The irony in this part of your post is something else : ''Irish players have been mocked and laughed at and sneered - often by our own countrymen - and all because we were embarrassed into self-hating submission by the fancy sides with fancy fitness regimes and better coaching panels.''

What is ironic about it?   

Fly is lamenting the fact that we don't have to be embarassed or self-hate ourselves any more because we now have a foreign coach to make us feel better about ourselves.   

We had a home grown coach that did make us feel embarrassed

The point?  That we shouldn't have been embarrassed by a home grown coach leading us down the yellow brick road to 9th in the World rankings and getting beaten by Italy for a first time in the 6N?  We should have been more patriotic and simply tow the line that suggested all other sides had supermen players?

Of course losing so often was embarrassing.  And you were embarrassed - but rather than tag the home grown coach, you often tagged the Irish home grown players.  Are players less Irish than an Irish coach?

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:No - we've always had the players to compete through most of the Provinces.  We certainly have always had the players to compete on a level footing with our NH colleagues.  And as Welsh players were being bathed in excessive rubbish about their superman abilities, I kept saying these guys get beaten week in and week out by Irish players - and often second string Irish players at that.

Fly I'm not sure about this - you see a lot of our players are physically inferior to some other sides, which is why Schmidt is better than Kidney is because rather than ignoring this and recruiting someone like Gert Smal to turn us into the NHs answer to South Africa he's got us working on the basics of the game and technique - using natural strengths like our fitness and low centre of gravities to good effect in the contact and mauls.

Gatland mocked us two seasons ago because he knew two eternal truths - small players don't run over bigger ones and slow players don't run around faster ones.

Schmidt turned the tables by not running at them at all and leaving him totally sucker punched and chasing shadows.

But this is not the end game - Joe knows that physically we need to improve, that's why the forwards have been doing brutal sessions to toughen them up and the improvement is already showing. There's a few heavy hitters (Ferris, O'Brien) and young(ish) speedsters itching to return or step up and that will give us more options -but we can't base a game plan around them because if they get injured it all goes to pot.

Work on your weaknesses but play to your strengths is what we are doing as opposed to ignore your weaknesses and play whatever way the players want, which is a mistake we made too often in the past.

Size isn't talent. I've always firmly believed we have the players to make Welsh sides look ordinary and we often managed to do just that by playing schyte rugby and still taking them close - ballboy game - Ferris game.

I have no truck with Welsh super-wizard, freaks of skilled nature supporters. Never have - never will

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Sin é wrote:The irony in this part of your post is something else : ''Irish players have been mocked and laughed at and sneered - often by our own countrymen - and all because we were embarrassed into self-hating submission by the fancy sides with fancy fitness regimes and better coaching panels.''

What is ironic about it?   

Fly is lamenting the fact that we don't have to be embarassed or self-hate ourselves any more because we now have a foreign coach to make us feel better about ourselves.   

We had a home grown coach that did make us feel embarrassed

The point?  That we shouldn't have been embarrassed by a home grown coach leading us down the yellow brick road to 9th in the World rankings and getting beaten by Italy for a first time in the 6N?  We should have been more patriotic and simply tow the line that suggested all other sides had supermen players?

Of course losing sooften was embarrassing.  And you were embarrassed - but rather than tag the home grown coach, you often tagged the Irish home grown players.  Are players less Irish than an Irish coach?

OMFG....now thats embarrassing Fly...what a load of complete tosh.

No Correct

...point out the tosh.

Much too lazy a retort, ME

GunsGerms wrote:Cant see us winning the six nations next year. We have the players to do it but winning two in a row is a massive mental hurdle to climb. As Joe said on Second Captians Live on Wednesday "if we play in next years championship like we did this year we will come third at best". His point was that you cannot afford to consolidate what you have got, you must continue to improve all the time. He has a great attitude and work ethic as a coach but the competition being so strong in the 6 nations it will come down to the wire so we will probably need to ride our luck.

That said he did win two in a row in the heineken cup with Leinster.

Of course Joe would say that - he doesn't want people getting all carried away! Too late Joe we see what's going down! GS 2015 here we come!

Cant be bothered Fly.

rodders wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Cant see us winning the six nations next year. We have the players to do it but winning two in a row is a massive mental hurdle to climb. As Joe said on Second Captians Live on Wednesday "if we play in next years championship like we did this year we will come third at best". His point was that you cannot afford to consolidate what you have got, you must continue to improve all the time. He has a great attitude and work ethic as a coach but the competition being so strong in the 6 nations it will come down to the wire so we will probably need to ride our luck.

That said he did win two in a row in the heineken cup with Leinster.

Of course Joe would say that - he doesn't want people getting all carried away! Too late Joe we see what's going down! GS 2015 here we come!

He is right though. You do have to keep improving. Kidney played the same way for 5 years and we went from a slam to bottom of the pile.

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:No - we've always had the players to compete through most of the Provinces.  We certainly have always had the players to compete on a level footing with our NH colleagues.  And as Welsh players were being bathed in excessive rubbish about their superman abilities, I kept saying these guys get beaten week in and week out by Irish players - and often second string Irish players at that.

Fly I'm not sure about this - you see a lot of our players are physically inferior to some other sides, which is why Schmidt is better than Kidney is because rather than ignoring this and recruiting someone like Gert Smal to turn us into the NHs answer to South Africa he's got us working on the basics of the game and technique - using natural strengths like our fitness and low centre of gravities to good effect in the contact and mauls.

Gatland mocked us two seasons ago because he knew two eternal truths - small players don't run over bigger ones and slow players don't run around faster ones.

Schmidt turned the tables by not running at them at all and leaving him totally sucker punched and chasing shadows.

But this is not the end game - Joe knows that physically we need to improve, that's why the forwards have been doing brutal sessions to toughen them up and the improvement is already showing. There's a few heavy hitters (Ferris, O'Brien) and young(ish) speedsters itching to return or step up and that will give us more options -but we can't base a game plan around them because if they get injured it all goes to pot.

Work on your weaknesses but play to your strengths is what we are doing as opposed to ignore your weaknesses and play whatever way the players want, which is a mistake we made too often in the past.

1. Munster have been using the maul to good effect in the last 2 years. Axel has always had a bit of a fondness for the maul! Niall O'Donovan (Kidney's old coaching partner at Shannon/Munster before being Irish forwards coach was always a fan as well). The non-Munster players needed the Joe/Plumtree seal of approval though - an Irish coach could never come up with a good idea.

2. A Kidney coached Ireland beat Wales in the Millenium (thats right, away from home) last year in case you have forgotten. At the world cup, Wales negated SOB & Ferris with the chop tackle. Gatland's tactics were spot on. Kidney learned to cope with them.

3. I heard Mike McGurn (Strength & Conditioning) talk last week about this just before the match last week on RTE1. He as asked about size of players now etc. He said that in size v pace and skill, pace and skill will win every time.

SecretFly wrote:
Size isn't talent.  I've always firmly believed we have the players to make Welsh sides look ordinary and we often managed to do just that by playing schyte rugby and still taking them close - ballboy game - Ferris game.

I have no truck with Welsh super-wizard, freaks of skilled nature supporters.  Never have - never will

No but in a physical contact game like rugby it's a valuable asset to have and a difficult one to negate if you don't. All things equal a good big'un will usually beat a good small'un but it's not the be all and end all... otherwise the ABs wouldn't be the best International team the Boks or England would.... Leinster wouldn't be the best club side, Toulon would... oops ignore the last one...

The athleticism and talent of certain players can't be ignored - you're on a hiding to nothing if you think D'arcy will run over Roberts or Tuilagl, that Chris Henry will hand off Willem Albert's or Devin Toner or Donnacha Ryan will intimidate Eben Etzebeth or Bakkies Botha.

I've watched Ireland for a number of seasons play into the opposition hands. Now we are negating the opposition and utilizing our own talents through clever and varied tactics and selection - that's a big difference.

BlueMuff wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote: (except for average Dave being chased down by a lock).

Can we please call him by his real name - Daverage

Dont think their is a need to insult those not here to defend themselves. Its desrespecful, had Dave K not rushed and forced that error in in last minute in Paris you would be hounding JS for a different reason.

Zebo could have been that player to rush up and no doubt with his speed he would have made an intercept ....well ...who knows. Zebo dropped himself from the team effectively. It was a senior player decision along with the coaches from what I hear.

Senior players..........POC?

So leave the hounding of JS and DK and have a look in SZ's direction.

Sin é wrote:No, what you all think is this. Foreign Good (coach, players etc), Homegrown/Irish bad. We will only win something if we are coached by a kiwi. An Irish coach would never be able to give the players enough confidence to do that. Kiwis good. Irish bad. etc. etc.

And its getting worse. It seems David Nucifora is going to be the new IRFU High Performance Director on 300K a year.

But we had a very good Irish coach in Eddie O'Sullivan who didn't quite manage to get us over the line, then we had an Irish coach as his successor in Declan Kidney who delivered early success but did lead us to a very embarrassing and humiliating point in our rugby history since the professional era. Despite having great talent at his disposal he managed to bring us to a point where we were in the bottom two of the tournament. That long, slow decline has probably killed off his career as a top level coach.

With Declan Kidney having been tried and failed then you are absolutely 100% right when you say there is no Irish coach who can deliver what Schmidt is delivering so far and if he continues in this vein we'll be in an exceptionally good place. Would you rather be where France are? Spinning their wheels and massively under-achieving because they won't employ a non-Frenchman despite the lack of decent French candidates?

For me;

Home-grown coach who is bad at his job = bad (see Declan Kidney).
Home-grown coach who is good at his job = good (see Eddie O'Sullivan).

Foreign coach who is good at his job = good (see Joe Schmidt, Warren Gatland)
Foreign coach who is bad at his job = bad (see Brian Ashton)

Guess what an Irish coach can fail and be criticised for it like last season, and a foreign coach can succeed and be praised for it like this season. This isn't xenophobes are us- this is pick the best man for the job and reach our full potential. Get onboard or get out of the road!

Sin é wrote:
1. Munster have been using the maul to good effect in the last 2 years. Axel has always had a bit of a fondness for the maul! Niall O'Donovan (Kidney's old coaching partner at Shannon/Munster before being Irish forwards coach was always a fan as well). The non-Munster players needed the Joe/Plumtree seal of approval though - an Irish coach could never come up with a good idea.

2. A Kidney coached Ireland beat Wales in the Millenium (thats right, away from home) last year in case you have forgotten. At the world cup, Wales negated SOB & Ferris with the chop tackle. Gatland's tactics were spot on. Kidney learned to cope with them.

3. I heard Mike McGurn (Strength & Conditioning) talk last week about this just before the match last week on RTE1. He as asked about size of players now etc. He said that in size v pace and skill, pace and skill will win every time.  

1. No they haven't - they barely used it until O'Connell returned and they beat Harlequins.

2. Wales were shorn of players in that game and we caught them cold in the first half. They very nearly came back and won and the remainder of the championship pretty much showed that first 40min to be a fluke if their ever was one.

3. We aren't talking about Size v pace and skill we are talking about Size + Pace + Skill (which is what the top sides have) v Skill. Just improving skill is not enough - Mike knows this otherwise he wouldn't have a job (and isn't highly thought of anyways from what I hear).

rodders wrote:Now we are negating the opposition and utilizing our own talents through clever and varied tactics and selection - that's a big difference.

And isn't it brilliant. I don't want to sound too gushing but Schmidt has delivered so much of what we were moaning about being absent from Irelands repertoire after every single test match for the last three years.

Notch wrote:

rodders wrote:Now we are negating the opposition and utilizing our own talents through clever and varied tactics and selection - that's a big difference.

And isn't it brilliant. I don't want to sound too gushing but Schmidt has delivered so much of what we were moaning about being absent from Irelands repertoire after every single test match for the last three years.

It is Notch - he delivered exactly what he said on the tin - in super quick time so I can't understand the begrudgers.

I mean we all wanted to play like Leinster a few seasons ago....now we practically are Leinster and it's not enough.... in fact Ireland are more like Leinster than Leinster are these days... who actually are more like Leicester, in fact Munster are more like Leinster...not Leicester... and Connacht are more like Munster and Ulster are more like SA...I mean NZ... I mean..... ok I'm confused now...

Leinster have lost their way when the Light passed on to give of Himself to the smaller task of winning a WC with sub-Leinster standard players

Seriously though, Rodders is bloody well spot on! ................ O'Connor is losing Leinster its identity and Leicesterising it, which I'm not sure I like.

Jury is out on O'Connor.  And his lights might be out too if he doesn't whistle us up more beauty and less mundane.  Mundane is for other sides not for Europe's Three Star General team!

Sin é wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Sin é wrote:The irony in this part of your post is something else : ''Irish players have been mocked and laughed at and sneered - often by our own countrymen - and all because we were embarrassed into self-hating submission by the fancy sides with fancy fitness regimes and better coaching panels.''

What is ironic about it?   

Fly is celebrating the fact that we don't have to be embarassed or self-hate ourselves any more because we now have a good coach to make us feel better about ourselves.    

Fixed

Feagh McHugh wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote: (except for average Dave being chased down by a lock).

Can we please call him by his real name - Daverage

Dont think their is a need to insult those not here to defend themselves. Its desrespecful, had Dave K not rushed and forced that error in in last minute in Paris you would be hounding JS for a different reason.

Zebo could have been that player to rush up and no doubt with his speed he would have made an intercept ....well ...who knows. Zebo dropped himself from the team effectively. It was a senior player decision along with the coaches from what I hear.

Senior players..........POC?

So leave the hounding of JS and DK and have a look in SZ's direction.

So Schmidt is a coward now. He makes the players do his dirty work. And worse if he made POC drop him

SecretFly wrote:Leinster have lost their way when the Light passed on to give of Himself to the smaller task of winning a WC with sub-Leinster standard players

Seriously though, Rodders is bloody well spot on! ................ O'Connor is losing Leinster its identity and Leicesterising it, which I'm not sure I like.

Jury is out on O'Connor.  And his lights might be out too if he doesn't whistle us up more beauty and less mundane.  Mundane is for other sides not for Europe's Three Star General team!

Easier to grab Jared Payne or else get Nacewa back.

You can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear.

Sin é wrote:

Easier to grab Jared Payne or else get Nacewa back.

You can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear.

You'd recommend two Kiwis over an Aussie?  You're beginning to sound like me, Sin  Don't be putting Kiwis on pedestals.... we know Dougie was never put on one.

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Leinster have lost their way when the Light passed on to give of Himself to the smaller task of winning a WC with sub-Leinster standard players

Seriously though, Rodders is bloody well spot on! ................ O'Connor is losing Leinster its identity and Leicesterising it, which I'm not sure I like.

Jury is out on O'Connor.  And his lights might be out too if he doesn't whistle us up more beauty and less mundane.  Mundane is for other sides not for Europe's Three Star General team!

Easier to grab Jared Payne or else get Nacewa back.

You can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear.

Kidney however showed just how easy it is to turn diamonds into coal,gold into lead etc.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Leinster have lost their way when the Light passed on to give of Himself to the smaller task of winning a WC with sub-Leinster standard players

Seriously though, Rodders is bloody well spot on! ................ O'Connor is losing Leinster its identity and Leicesterising it, which I'm not sure I like.

Jury is out on O'Connor.  And his lights might be out too if he doesn't whistle us up more beauty and less mundane.  Mundane is for other sides not for Europe's Three Star General team!

Easier to grab Jared Payne or else get Nacewa back.

You can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear.

Kidney however showed just how easy it is to turn diamonds into coal,gold into lead etc.

I seem to remember that under EOS the 07 WC didnt quiet go so well. Cant remember who came in after EOS and won a GS with a team that was a complete shambles lacking any confidence.

I thought our performances in the RWC 07 were ok actually - if ROG hadn't have lost all his money on that horse and Strings hadn't threw that intercept pass I still believe we'd have won it.

BlueMuff wrote:

I seem to remember that under EOS the 07 WC didnt quiet go so well. Cant remember who came in after EOS and won a GS with a team that was a complete shambles lacking any confidence.

Absolutely true. And didn't we all enjoy it with its sudden death drama of the Jones kick that miraculously didn't do the distance.

Delighted to see this coach is getting the same love after his first campaign

I amongst others thought we were about to reap so much when Kidney finished the GS stint and then knuckled down to rebuilding the side.................

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:
1. Munster have been using the maul to good effect in the last 2 years. Axel has always had a bit of a fondness for the maul! Niall O'Donovan (Kidney's old coaching partner at Shannon/Munster before being Irish forwards coach was always a fan as well). The non-Munster players needed the Joe/Plumtree seal of approval though - an Irish coach could never come up with a good idea.

2. A Kidney coached Ireland beat Wales in the Millenium (thats right, away from home) last year in case you have forgotten. At the world cup, Wales negated SOB & Ferris with the chop tackle. Gatland's tactics were spot on. Kidney learned to cope with them.

3. I heard Mike McGurn (Strength & Conditioning) talk last week about this just before the match last week on RTE1. He as asked about size of players now etc. He said that in size v pace and skill, pace and skill will win every time.  

1. No they haven't - they barely used it until O'Connell returned and they beat Harlequins.

2. Wales were shorn of players in that game and we caught them cold in the first half. They very nearly came back and won and the remainder of the championship pretty much showed that first 40min to be a fluke if their ever was one.

3. We aren't talking about Size v pace and skill we are talking about Size + Pace + Skill (which is what the top sides have) v Skill. Just improving skill is not enough - Mike knows this otherwise he wouldn't have a job (and isn't highly thought of anyways from what I hear).

1. Munster certainly have. Anyway, it wasn't down to Plumtree & Schmidt having Ireland playing like Munster in the first two games and it certainly wasn't Plumtree's bright idea that these Irish blokes might do well using the maul.

2. Who was they missing?
Wales: 1/2penny, Cuthbert, Davies, Roberts, North, Biggar, Phillips. Jenkins, Rees, Jones, Coombs, Evans, Shingler, Sam, Faletau.

Ireland: Kearney, Gilroy, BOD, Darcy, Zebo, Sexton, Murray, Healy, Best, Ross, McCarthy, Ryan, POM, SOB, Heaslip.
(Ireland were missing POC & Ferris & Bowe).

I suppose it all fell apart a bit when POM got injured and Henry came on for him.   

3. Pace will always beat size. For someone who isn't rated, McGurn sure has some client list. Rumours are he is getting a gig with Martin & Roy.

SecretFly wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:

I seem to remember that under EOS the 07 WC didnt quiet go so well. Cant remember who came in after EOS and won a GS with a team that was a complete shambles lacking any confidence.

Absolutely true.  And didn't we all enjoy it with its sudden death drama of the Jones kick that miraculously didn't do the distance.

Delighted to see this coach is getting the same love after his first campaign

I amongst others thought we were about to reap so much when Kidney finished the GS stint and then knuckled down to rebuilding the side.................

That was all part of the IRFU 4 year preconceived plan to inspire confidence in Holy Joe post GS era.

No.  It was unfortunate.  That's all.  

Things didn't work out for Kidney... and I wouldn't and never have blamed it all on him.  I don't think his coaching panel were great - and they kept going and coming over his tenure - mostly going and gaps not being filled.  And then he was left without a fitness and conditioning specialist.  That was glossed over too as nothing urgent, as Wales were in space camps breathing ice air and doing triple and quadruple training periods throughout a day!
It all just fell apart and maybe Kidney was too nice to demand new coaches and ALL coaches that an International team requires.

Making do might have been the nail in his coffin.

Onwards to Holy Joe so - who already has a big target on his back.... and I'm sure a countdown clock will be up on him soon enough too.

BlueMuff wrote:

I seem to remember that under EOS the 07 WC didnt quiet go so well. Cant remember who came in after EOS and won a GS with a team that was a complete shambles lacking any confidence.

If Kidneys term as Ireland coach had ended there then you might have a point,however the longer he was in control the worse the team became.BoD had his best ever year in 2009 and dragged the team over the line against England while contributing huge performances against Wales and France.Kidney had no idea what to do when he no longer had a player like BoD to pull the team along and this ended with Ireland suffering some of the most humiliating defeats ever in the professional era.

If the team gets worse each year Schmidt has control then I'll be astounded,we may not win the 6N every year but I'll be surprised if we ever lose more than one game in it under him and shocked if we ever lose to Scotland or Italy unless they improve beyond all recognition,we'll also never be nilled in a match under Schmidt.These things all happened under Kidney despite the absolute top quality of players available to him and he'll never coach at any significant level again as a result.

60-0s are unlikely to happen again too.

Ah in fairness lads, Kidney stood by when Axel was appointed defence coach - and our specialist defence coach, and probably the best asset on our panel at the time, was appointed attack coach. Harebrained move, by all accounts.

I accept it maybe wasn't his fault, but Ireland really weren't going anywhere with that malarky going on. Schmidt came in, sorted out what Kidney couldn't, Kiss put back in defence and Ireland nearly break the record for least points conceded in a 6n's championship, as England scored more points than us, thats what won it for us. Nuff Said...

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:
1. Munster have been using the maul to good effect in the last 2 years. Axel has always had a bit of a fondness for the maul! Niall O'Donovan (Kidney's old coaching partner at Shannon/Munster before being Irish forwards coach was always a fan as well). The non-Munster players needed the Joe/Plumtree seal of approval though - an Irish coach could never come up with a good idea.

2. A Kidney coached Ireland beat Wales in the Millenium (thats right, away from home) last year in case you have forgotten. At the world cup, Wales negated SOB & Ferris with the chop tackle. Gatland's tactics were spot on. Kidney learned to cope with them.

3. I heard Mike McGurn (Strength & Conditioning) talk last week about this just before the match last week on RTE1. He as asked about size of players now etc. He said that in size v pace and skill, pace and skill will win every time.  

1. No they haven't - they barely used it until O'Connell returned and they beat Harlequins.

2. Wales were shorn of players in that game and we caught them cold in the first half. They very nearly came back and won and the remainder of the championship pretty much showed that first 40min to be a fluke if their ever was one.

3. We aren't talking about Size v pace and skill we are talking about Size + Pace + Skill (which is what the top sides have) v Skill. Just improving skill is not enough - Mike knows this otherwise he wouldn't have a job (and isn't highly thought of anyways from what I hear).

1. Munster certainly have. Anyway, it wasn't down to Plumtree & Schmidt having Ireland playing like Munster in the first two games and it certainly wasn't Plumtree's bright idea that these Irish blokes might do well using the maul.

2. Who was they missing?
Wales: 1/2penny, Cuthbert, Davies, Roberts, North, Biggar, Phillips. Jenkins, Rees, Jones, Coombs, Evans, Shingler, Sam, Faletau.

Ireland: Kearney, Gilroy, BOD, Darcy, Zebo, Sexton, Murray, Healy, Best, Ross, McCarthy, Ryan, POM, SOB, Heaslip.
(Ireland were missing POC & Ferris & Bowe).

I suppose it all fell apart a bit when POM got injured and Henry came on for him.   

3.  Pace will always beat size. For someone who isn't rated, McGurn sure has some client list. Rumours are he is getting a gig with Martin & Roy.

Just to bring this back to the OP, there are complaints because Munster had POC, POM and Murray for the starting team, whereas under a 'red' coach the previous year in the game mentioned above there was Zebo, Ryan, POM and Murray. So the 'blue' coach picked 3 red players to start while the 'red' coach picked 4 red players to start. Add to that players recovering from injury and it doesn't seem like as big a deal as made out.

On top of that, people conveniently forget Schmidt picked Ulster Heieneken sub Henderson on the bench ahead of Leinster Heineken starter McCarthy. He must only hate them Munster folks.

Edited for clarity

So now the coaches aren't responsible for our game plan in Rounds 1 and 2   

It certainly couldn't be Plumtree who implemented changes to our rolling maul. Sure he's spent his whole career coaching in South Africa, where the rolling maul is pretty much unheard of. I'd say those responsible would be from the only team to have ever used the rolling maul, Munster. Possibly after some kind of player revolt? Can't wait to see where the next twist is coming from...

 

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
Just to bring this back to the OP, there are complaints because Munster had POC, POM and Murray for the starting team, whereas under a 'red' coach the previous year in the game mentioned above there was Zebo, Ryan, POM and Murray. So the 'blue' coach picked 3 red players to start while the 'red' coach picked 4 red players to start. Add to that players recovering from injury and it doesn't seem like as big a deal as made out.

Total and utter misrepresentation of the facts there, bandwagon.  You of course know that the 'red' coach was forced to pick only four red players under duress from IRFU.  Whereas the new 'blue' coach only picks three red players because number one, he likes it and number two, too many free-spirited red players is too much rebellion against the slave system he has going down.
Too many Spartacuses in any team and Rome burns.

POC was interviewed on TG4 tonight at half time and was asked about the impact of Joe and winning the 6ns and as with his interview after the French game he ignored the question and again noted that last year more players had been given int'l experience and having that pool made a big difference this year.

he didn't mention Joe at all. That's twice now from the captain in a week who has denied the messiah. Once more and its biblical

ME-109 wrote:POC was interviewed on TG4 tonight at half time and was asked about the impact of Joe and winning the 6ns and as with his interview after the French game he ignored the question and again noted that last year more players had been given int'l experience and having that pool made a big difference this year.

he didn't mention Joe at all. That's twice now from the captain in a week who has denied the messiah. Once more and its biblical

Only if he was in denial   

And I thought the Welsh were nuts last year after winnig and going into meltdown...

Did you see Rob Penneys comments after the Munster game last night? He said next week is Munster vs the Six Nations champions   

Hope a big, big win for Leinster is on the cards after that. Absolutely disgraceful stuff for one IRFU employee to undermine another. Sschmidt and Penney are meant to have a working relationship. How is that going to work if the Munster coach is going out in public and undermining the national coaches selection policy in public? Never seen this kind of thing from any other province. He'd need to find a way to motivate them this week after that performance mind you...

Notch, Penney is leaving at the end of the season. The IRFU would only give him a year extension, so why should he be worried about undermining anyone. For all we know, Schmidt might be the reason he is leaving as I'm sure he would have some say in the selection of provincial coaches.

The rest of them better mind their ps and qs. Axel must have passed the schmidt vetting process when he was coaching the Wolfhounds.

Regardless, thats the second time he's made that assertion, and comes off a petulant child wanting to be heard. That's really not what Munster fans are about. He should look for Gatland's job, never mind Japan...

So what were you thinking about Schmidt when he was screaming for Paul O'Connell to be cited for the Dave Kearney kick. He even said 'Think of the Children watching it on Utube"   

Sin é wrote:So what were you thinking about Schmidt when he was screaming for Paul O'Connell to be cited for the Dave Kearney kick. He even said 'Think of the Children watching it on Utube"   

How is that even remotely comparable?   

I disagreed with him but thought he had a fair point.

Demanding the authorities to cite a player (criticising the IRFU indirectly as the citing commissioner is an IRFU official), not to mention coming out with a line of 'think of the children'!

Sin é wrote:Demanding the authorities to cite a player (criticising the IRFU indirectly as the citing commissioner is an IRFU official), not to mention coming out with a line of 'think of the children'!

Right  

Isn't that what Gatland (and all the others like Cockers do all the time). Criticise the officials.

You wouldn't catch Declan Kidney demanding that a player from any team should be cited  

Think you might need to let it go Sin. He just did what any coach would do.

Guns, I'm not the one moaning about a flippent comment from Penney (though POC spoke recently about Schmidt's attempts to get him cited).