Joe Schmidt responds to Denis Leamy's parochial rant!!

First topic message reminder :

Leamy's article prior to the Ireland game in which he claimed there was a Leinster bias which could harm our WC chances:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/denis-leamy-questions-schmidt-selection-30091421.html

Schmidts response:
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/joe-schmidt-denies-having-a-leinster-bias-1.1729932

“For me, I select Irish players. If people want to differentiate, if people want to divide that provincially, that’s their prerogative,” he said. “But, as a group, we’re just trying to select the Irish national team. If people are going to be distracted by provincial loyalties, then that is something that is certainly not happening within the group.

“I think there has been a super unity within the group. It is probably always disappointing to get criticised. I can totally understand the perception. But, what I can totally guarantee is that we have all the stats, we watch all the games and we try to do as much homework as we possibly can.”

You wouldn't catch Declan Kidney saying something after a game that makes that much sense   

Notch wrote:You wouldn't catch Declan Kidney saying something after a game that makes that much sense   

Judging by the way Ireland played under him I'd say the last over 3 years he probably didn't say anything that made much sense during training sessions or team talks either.   

Sin é wrote:Guns, I'm not the one moaning about a flippent comment from Penney (though POC spoke recently about Schmidt's attempts to get him cited).

POC hasn't said much about Schmidt lately. In fact he seems to be avoiding it completely. Can't believe a tongue in cheek comment by Penney is being questioned.

Double standards Notch, double standards. Getting all excited about Penney making a nothing comment and yet see nothing wrong with a coach demanding that a player be cited 'for the good of the children' apparently.

Notch wrote:Post by Notch Today at 3:32 pm
Did you see Rob Penneys comments after the Munster game last night? He said next week is Munster vs the Six Nations champions  picard

Hope a big, big win for Leinster is on the cards after that. Absolutely disgraceful stuff for one IRFU employee to undermine another. Sschmidt and Penney are meant to have a working relationship. How is that going to work if the Munster coach is going out in public and undermining the national coaches selection policy in public? Never seen this kind of thing from any other province. He'd need to find a way to motivate them this week after that performance mind you...

ME-109 wrote:

Sin é wrote:Guns, I'm not the one moaning about a flippent comment from Penney (though POC spoke recently about Schmidt's attempts to get him cited).

POC hasn't said much about Schmidt lately. In fact he seems to be avoiding it completely. Can't believe a tongue in cheek comment by Penney is being questioned.

He hasn't said much at all other than he provides clarity and big into detail.

He said in interview with Paul Kimmage recently that he still believed that he shouldn't have been cited, that the purpose of being citing was to educate the player not to do it again. Since it was an accident on his part, and he had no intention of doing it again, he didn't see why he should be cited.

Mr Schmidt should surely realise that, bearing in mind he was the attack coach at Clermont who has one of the biggest thugs in world rugby playing there and they still played him. Any amount of citings hasn't cured him either.

Sin é wrote:Double standards Notch, double standards. Getting all excited about Penney making a nothing comment and yet see nothing wrong with a coach demanding that a player be cited 'for the good of the children' apparently.

Notch wrote:Post by Notch Today at 3:32 pm
Did you see Rob Penneys comments after the Munster game last night? He said next week is Munster vs the Six Nations champions  picard

Hope a big, big win for Leinster is on the cards after that. Absolutely disgraceful stuff for one IRFU employee to undermine another. Sschmidt and Penney are meant to have a working relationship. How is that going to work if the Munster coach is going out in public and undermining the national coaches selection policy in public? Never seen this kind of thing from any other province. He'd need to find a way to motivate them this week after that performance mind you...

That's a pretty dumb way of interpreting what Schmidt said.My take on what he said was that parents would be watching it and if that kind of violent action isn't even investigated they might be turned off letting their kids play rugby.Therefore it would be for the good of the game.

Firstly, I know what I said thanks

Secondly, Schmidt said one player should be cited for foul play. I didn't think it was foul play either and I didn't think O'Connell should be cited. But one coach being over-protective of his player is a lot more excusable than a coach who has made very disrespectful comments to basically all the non-Leinster players in the Ireland team. He should go and tell Chris Henry or Andrew Trimble it was a 'Leinster' effort, not to mention the trio of Munster players who were really outstanding in that game.

I disagreed with Schmidt at the time and I would be slightly critical of what he said, but thats all water under the bridge now- you're the only person who still seems to care.

All Penney is doing is feeding into this bizarre victim mentality that Munster still seem to need to motivate themselves. If an Ulster coach had made similar comments in the many years where we had less representation than Munster do now when we went down to Thomond Park he'd have been absolutely slaughtered for it. If the only way Munster can motivate themselves at this stage is through the old formula of bitterness and grudges, thats fairly sad stuff.

Was it a Munster team that won the Six Nations in 2009? Of course it blydi wasn't, thats the point.

Sin é wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

Sin é wrote:Guns, I'm not the one moaning about a flippent comment from Penney (though POC spoke recently about Schmidt's attempts to get him cited).

POC hasn't said much about Schmidt lately. In fact he seems to be avoiding it completely. Can't believe a tongue in cheek comment by Penney is being questioned.

He hasn't said much at all other than he provides clarity and big into detail.

He said in interview with Paul Kimmage recently that he still believed that he shouldn't have been cited, that the purpose of being citing was to educate the player not to do it again. Since it was an accident on his part, and he had no intention of doing it again, he didn't see why he should be cited.

Mr Schmidt should surely realise that, bearing in mind he was the attack coach at Clermont who has one of the biggest thugs in world rugby playing there and they still played him. Any amount of citings hasn't cured him either.

PoC might believe that's the purpose of being cited but he's very wrong.The purpose of a citing is to investigate an incident and see whether it deserves further punishment,educating the offender has nothing to do with it.I know you're a big fan of PoC but just because he says something that doesn't mean he's right

Even the idea that people could think there is any bias in the selection policy right now, I think is ridiculous. I think thats a farcical state of affairs. Never mind a Munster coach trying to add to that   

Notch wrote:Firstly, I know what I said thanks

Secondly, Schmidt said one player should be cited for foul play. I didn't think it was foul play either and I didn't think O'Connell should be cited. But one coach being over-protective of his player is a lot more excusable than a coach who has made very disrespectful comments to basically all the non-Leinster players in the Ireland team. He should go and tell Chris Henry or Andrew Trimble it was a 'Leinster' effort, not to mention the trio of Munster players who were really outstanding in that game.

I disagreed with Schmidt at the time and I would be slightly critical of what he said, but thats all water under the bridge now- you're the only person who still seems to care.

All Penney is doing is feeding into this bizarre victim mentality that Munster still seem to need to motivate themselves. If an Ulster coach had made similar comments in the many years where we had less representation than Munster do now when we went down to Thomond Park he'd have been absolutely slaughtered for it. If the only way Munster can motivate themselves at this stage is through the old formula of bitterness and grudges, thats fairly sad stuff.

Was it a Munster team that won the Six Nations in 2009? Of course it blydi wasn't, thats the point.

An Ulster coach would never had a need to make such a comment because at no stage would Ian Dowling have been playing in the Ireland backline instead of Denis Hickie, Andrew Trimble or Luke Fitz.

16 Leinster players in the match day squad (+ travelling subs make it 18). It was a joke - I don't think anyone took it too serious - about the Ospreys winning the 6Ns when something similar happened (except they won a Grand Slam)!

Its really not feeding into any victimhood etc. Its a joke (though, no harm reminding ourselves that Munster have beaten Ireland in the past)! We tend to like beating international sides. Pretty much every player that Leinster will field next weekend will have a 6Ns medal in their back pocket. Even Rickhard Straus as a travelling sub!

Nice you have forgiven Schmidt after only a year for his media transgression. I'm sure you will also have forgotten about Penney's by this time next year.

This time next year, Penney won't be in the country.

I asked you to elucidate this bias before and you said Donnacha Ryan should have been ahead of Rhys Ruddock/Jordi Murphy- despite being primarily a lock- and O'Donnell should have been ahead of Jordi Murphy which is a 50/50 call. And that Zebo should have been in for Dave Kearney. That's all you could come up with.

It's ridiculous.

Oh oh..Notch is on his high horse and tends to lose the stepladder..,this could go on

Notch wrote:I asked you to elucidate this bias before and you said Donnacha Ryan should have been ahead of Rhys Ruddock/Jordi Murphy- despite being primarily a lock- and O'Donnell should have been ahead of Jordi Murphy which is a 50/50 call. And that Zebo should have been in for Dave Kearney. That's all you could come up with.

It's ridiculous.

The devil is in the small detail - I wasn't looking for much. Jordi Murphy was only there to collect his medal as he didn't get a second on the pitch. Ryan could have just as easily done that and in fact would have a heck of a lot more experience in closing out games, so might have been of some use. Only one (part time) lock on the bench who also plays at Blindside.

I could also have claimed that Kilcoyne & Archer could have got a look in - but I won't be too greedy.

I also thought that Jackson should have been on the bench instead of Madigan.

Notch wrote:This time next year, Penney won't be in the country.

I know. Thats why I can't figure out why you are so worried about Penney undermining the Irish rugby establishment.

Munster always like to use that chip on the shoulder thing. I've heard Flannery say it. And Foley. "We're better when we're bitter" is the term he used. I'm surprised that you're so shocked by Penny's comment Notch. In fact Ireland are similar. We were joking that England weren't doing or saying anything to make us angry before the Twickenham clash.

They feel not enough Munster players were in the team and he's using it to motivate them in the upcoming match. It's his job to win these matches. Like I said earlier, the province the Irish players plays for is irrelevant to me. But people in Munster aren't happy about their representation obviously.

What surprises me is that Sin is saying that the Irish selections are "a joke" after we've won the 6 Nations. When asked about selections Saint Joe said he's looking at the stats. Presumably for particular things. Is it any wonder that players who were coached by Schmidt at Leinster for 3 years have better stats in those particular area's Schmidt is looking at? Not really. And that explains some borderline selection pretty well for me.

I hope Schmidt knows there are people just waiting to pounce on him as soon we put in some poor performances. He'd better just win the RWC and get out of here before it all ends in tears. Because some seem to have it in for him already because not enough people from their neck of the woods got 6 Nations medals.

And by the way POC shouldn't have been cited because it was accidental. Schmidt was wrong about that. So he's not perfect.

The only thing that is a "joke" is the Irish media. Schmidt has improved this team behind recognition within the space of a year. He is one of the best coaches around and we should feel blessed that we have him as our national coach.

FR - I think you are a tad over sensitive for some reason there. The 'joke' I was referring to was Penney's comment - he was making a joke about Munster playing the 6 Nations Champions next week, which, as I have pointed out more than likely going to have about 15 players from the Championship winning team. Munster, hopefully will have 3 (and a bit if you count Tommy O'Donnell who was dropped out completely with the excuse that he was injured).

ME-109 wrote:POC was interviewed on TG4 tonight at half time and was asked about the impact of Joe and winning the 6ns and as with his interview after the French game he ignored the question and again noted that last year more players had been given int'l experience and having that pool made a big difference this year.

he didn't mention Joe at all. That's twice now from the captain in a week who has denied the messiah. Once more and its biblical

POC obviously finds himself between a rock an a hard place. He can't praise Schmidt as that would undermine the traditional persecuted Munster line Penney is regurgitating, neither can he spurn the man who had the strength to make him captain and engineered that night in Paris. Paul O'Connell won't let himself get drawn into becoming the mouthpiece of disenfranchised factions, so his silence speaks volumes.

It's surprising that Penney thinks a 6N Ireland win is a joke. Will Murray, POC and POM be playing for Munster or as 6N Champions? Perhaps he wants to recreate the 'light-hearted' division between the green shirt and the red one that served Munster so well (pre-Enfield)? Maybe that's the kind of verbal humour that goes down well in Japan?

Uh Oh!!!!

Penney realising that perhaps he might get more results as a dictator, like his pal Schmidt

"Paulie - get out there into the media and Deny, Deny, Deny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Never mention him!  I'm warning you, you're not a 6N champ no more when you walk into Munster camp.  You'll do it my way, and my way is to Deny, Deny, Deny that man credit for nothing!  And everything!  Cross me and I'll drop you from the lansdowne game."

Yeah.......... ruthless headmastery is the new way to go for perfect coaching.  Tis a pity Penney didn't learn that from Schmidt sooner and the long haul flight to Japan might have been avoided.

The Great Aukster wrote:

ME-109 wrote:POC was interviewed on TG4 tonight at half time and was asked about the impact of Joe and winning the 6ns and as with his interview after the French game he ignored the question and again noted that last year more players had been given int'l experience and having that pool made a big difference this year.

he didn't mention Joe at all. That's twice now from the captain in a week who has denied the messiah. Once more and its biblical

POC obviously finds himself between a rock an a hard place. He can't praise Schmidt as that would undermine the traditional persecuted Munster line Penney is regurgitating, neither can he spurn the man who had the strength to make him captain and engineered that night in Paris. Paul O'Connell won't let himself get drawn into becoming the mouthpiece of disenfranchised factions, so his silence speaks volumes.

It's surprising that Penney thinks a 6N Ireland win is a joke. Will Murray, POC and POM be playing for Munster or as 6N Champions? Perhaps he wants to recreate the 'light-hearted' division between the green shirt and the red one that served Munster so well (pre-Enfield)? Maybe that's the kind of verbal humour that goes down well in Japan?

Why in the name of god would Schmidt be in need of strength to make POC captain. Its the most bizare comment ever. Are you suggesting that Schmidt is intimidated by POC so needed to 'have strength'?

Nothing silent about his praise of Gert Smal & Declan Kidney contribution to the victory in Paris   

I don't get why you all are so concerned about what devices Munster uses to motivate themselves. Is it you are envious that Munster are obviously on the ascendency again and you fear that?

No doubt you are hoping that all those Leinster & Ulster players with 6Ns winner medals will have gained confidence and a taste for winning more cups and medals. That concept isn't that far from hoping that not winning will also motivate players do want some of the same and not be the ones left out of the party.

Sin é wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

ME-109 wrote:POC was interviewed on TG4 tonight at half time and was asked about the impact of Joe and winning the 6ns and as with his interview after the French game he ignored the question and again noted that last year more players had been given int'l experience and having that pool made a big difference this year.

he didn't mention Joe at all. That's twice now from the captain in a week who has denied the messiah. Once more and its biblical

POC obviously finds himself between a rock an a hard place. He can't praise Schmidt as that would undermine the traditional persecuted Munster line Penney is regurgitating, neither can he spurn the man who had the strength to make him captain and engineered that night in Paris. Paul O'Connell won't let himself get drawn into becoming the mouthpiece of disenfranchised factions, so his silence speaks volumes.

It's surprising that Penney thinks a 6N Ireland win is a joke. Will Murray, POC and POM be playing for Munster or as 6N Champions? Perhaps he wants to recreate the 'light-hearted' division between the green shirt and the red one that served Munster so well (pre-Enfield)? Maybe that's the kind of verbal humour that goes down well in Japan?

Why in the name of god would Schmidt be in need of strength to make POC captain. Its the most bizare comment ever. Are you suggesting that Schmidt is intimidated by POC so needed to 'have strength'?

Nothing silent about his praise of Gert Smal & Declan Kidney contribution to the victory in Paris   

I don't get why you all are so concerned about what devices Munster uses to motivate themselves. Is it you are envious that Munster are obviously on the ascendency again and you fear that?

No doubt you are hoping that all those Leinster & Ulster players with 6Ns winner medals will have gained confidence and a taste for winning more cups and medals. That concept isn't that far from hoping that not winning will also motivate players do want some of the same and not be the ones left out of the party.

All things Red = Bad
All things Blue/White = Good.

Simples.

Sin é wrote:
I don't get why you all are so concerned about what devices Munster uses to motivate themselves. Is it you are envious that Munster are obviously on the ascendency again and you fear that?

Did you see the Treviso game? If it wasnt for a very generous TMO and ref who gifted Munster two tries Munster would have lost 3-0. They were dire. Tactically dreadful too. Played a bit like Scotland. Probably a blessing for Munster Penney is leaving.

ME-109 wrote:

All things Red = Bad
All things Blue/White = Good.

Simples.

Not in the eyes of Munster fans, Penney, POC and CO, surely?? Or have they all fallen under the Special One's charismatic influence too?

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:
I don't get why you all are so concerned about what devices Munster uses to motivate themselves. Is it you are envious that Munster are obviously on the ascendency again and you fear that?

Did you see the Treviso game? If it wasnt for a very generous TMO and ref who gifted Munster two tries Munster would have lost 3-0. They were dire. Tactically dreadful too. Played a bit like Scotland. Probably a blessing for Munster Penney is leaving.

Munster have won more games than Leinster this year (and lost less!).

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:
I don't get why you all are so concerned about what devices Munster uses to motivate themselves. Is it you are envious that Munster are obviously on the ascendency again and you fear that?

Did you see the Treviso game? If it wasnt for a very generous TMO and ref who gifted Munster two tries Munster would have lost 3-0. They were dire. Tactically dreadful too. Played a bit like Scotland. Probably a blessing for Munster Penney is leaving.

Munster have won more games than Leinster this year (and lost less!).

That must be a nice consolation when you're second place in the league.

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:
I don't get why you all are so concerned about what devices Munster uses to motivate themselves. Is it you are envious that Munster are obviously on the ascendency again and you fear that?

Did you see the Treviso game? If it wasnt for a very generous TMO and ref who gifted Munster two tries Munster would have lost 3-0. They were dire. Tactically dreadful too. Played a bit like Scotland. Probably a blessing for Munster Penney is leaving.

Munster have won more games than Leinster this year (and lost less!).

That must be a nice consolation when you're second place in the league.

No, not really. Just supports the theory that Penney must be as good tactically as the Leinster coach, whose family originally came from Cork   

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:
I don't get why you all are so concerned about what devices Munster uses to motivate themselves. Is it you are envious that Munster are obviously on the ascendency again and you fear that?

Did you see the Treviso game? If it wasnt for a very generous TMO and ref who gifted Munster two tries Munster would have lost 3-0. They were dire. Tactically dreadful too. Played a bit like Scotland. Probably a blessing for Munster Penney is leaving.

Munster have won more games than Leinster this year (and lost less!).

That must be a nice consolation when you're second place in the league.

No, not really. Just supports the theory that Penney must be as good tactically as the Leinster coach, whose family originally came from Cork   

Penney is doing great.  But not a lot of Munster fans wanted that to be so when he first appeared on the horizon.  He was another non-Munster man who might not have what it takes to understand how Munster do rugby.  
It turns out that the non-believers were right afterall and Penney must go forth now to exile - tactically removing himself from Munster's equation.

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:
I don't get why you all are so concerned about what devices Munster uses to motivate themselves. Is it you are envious that Munster are obviously on the ascendency again and you fear that?

Did you see the Treviso game? If it wasnt for a very generous TMO and ref who gifted Munster two tries Munster would have lost 3-0. They were dire. Tactically dreadful too. Played a bit like Scotland. Probably a blessing for Munster Penney is leaving.

Munster have won more games than Leinster this year (and lost less!).

That must be a nice consolation when you're second place in the league.

No, not really. Just supports the theory that Penney must be as good tactically as the Leinster coach, whose family originally came from Cork   

Penney is doing great.  But not a lot of Munster fans wanted that to be so when he first appeared on the horizon.  He was another non-Munster man who might not have what it takes to understand how Munster do rugby.  
It turns out that the non-believers were right afterall and Penney must go forth now to exile - tactically removing himself from Munster's equation.

And what mind altering drugs are you taking to have come to that opinion? The vast majority gave him the benefit of the doubt, there were concerns with the Pro 12 results last year but I wouldnt say there was any major criticism. The results this year have shown an improvement and he has brought on some of the younger players and developed them as was expected. The majority are sorry to see him go.

Oh hang on I forgot...you only like non Irish coaches....so you think its some conspiracy..

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:
I don't get why you all are so concerned about what devices Munster uses to motivate themselves. Is it you are envious that Munster are obviously on the ascendency again and you fear that?

Did you see the Treviso game? If it wasnt for a very generous TMO and ref who gifted Munster two tries Munster would have lost 3-0. They were dire. Tactically dreadful too. Played a bit like Scotland. Probably a blessing for Munster Penney is leaving.

Munster have won more games than Leinster this year (and lost less!).

That must be a nice consolation when you're second place in the league.

No, not really. Just supports the theory that Penney must be as good tactically as the Leinster coach, whose family originally came from Cork   

Is that the theory you were supporting? It looked like you were supporting the idea that "envious that Munster are in the ascendancy again"   

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:
I don't get why you all are so concerned about what devices Munster uses to motivate themselves. Is it you are envious that Munster are obviously on the ascendency again and you fear that?

Did you see the Treviso game? If it wasnt for a very generous TMO and ref who gifted Munster two tries Munster would have lost 3-0. They were dire. Tactically dreadful too. Played a bit like Scotland. Probably a blessing for Munster Penney is leaving.

Munster have won more games than Leinster this year (and lost less!).

That must be a nice consolation when you're second place in the league.

No, not really. Just supports the theory that Penney must be as good tactically as the Leinster coach, whose family originally came from Cork   

Is that the theory you were supporting? It looked like you were supporting the idea that "envious that Munster are in the ascendancy again"   

Do you want to edit that....not sure what it is you are laughing at (your own grammar maybe?)

ME-109 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

ME-109 wrote:POC was interviewed on TG4 tonight at half time and was asked about the impact of Joe and winning the 6ns and as with his interview after the French game he ignored the question and again noted that last year more players had been given int'l experience and having that pool made a big difference this year.

he didn't mention Joe at all. That's twice now from the captain in a week who has denied the messiah. Once more and its biblical

POC obviously finds himself between a rock an a hard place. He can't praise Schmidt as that would undermine the traditional persecuted Munster line Penney is regurgitating, neither can he spurn the man who had the strength to make him captain and engineered that night in Paris. Paul O'Connell won't let himself get drawn into becoming the mouthpiece of disenfranchised factions, so his silence speaks volumes.

It's surprising that Penney thinks a 6N Ireland win is a joke. Will Murray, POC and POM be playing for Munster or as 6N Champions? Perhaps he wants to recreate the 'light-hearted' division between the green shirt and the red one that served Munster so well (pre-Enfield)? Maybe that's the kind of verbal humour that goes down well in Japan?

Why in the name of god would Schmidt be in need of strength to make POC captain. Its the most bizare comment ever. Are you suggesting that Schmidt is intimidated by POC so needed to 'have strength'?

Nothing silent about his praise of Gert Smal & Declan Kidney contribution to the victory in Paris   

I don't get why you all are so concerned about what devices Munster uses to motivate themselves. Is it you are envious that Munster are obviously on the ascendency again and you fear that?

No doubt you are hoping that all those Leinster & Ulster players with 6Ns winner medals will have gained confidence and a taste for winning more cups and medals. That concept isn't that far from hoping that not winning will also motivate players do want some of the same and not be the ones left out of the party.

All things Red = Bad
All things Blue/White = Good.

Simples.

Who said that? Is Sexton blue and white, so he's doubly good?
Surely in that parlance a closer interpretation of Penney's comment would be:

All things Red = Good
All things Green = Bad

AHHHHHHH No, not the grammar!

I wish my point wasn't completely irrelevant now...

At last someone who sees the irrelevant in the room...

ME-109 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:
I don't get why you all are so concerned about what devices Munster uses to motivate themselves. Is it you are envious that Munster are obviously on the ascendency again and you fear that?

Did you see the Treviso game? If it wasnt for a very generous TMO and ref who gifted Munster two tries Munster would have lost 3-0. They were dire. Tactically dreadful too. Played a bit like Scotland. Probably a blessing for Munster Penney is leaving.

Munster have won more games than Leinster this year (and lost less!).

That must be a nice consolation when you're second place in the league.

No, not really. Just supports the theory that Penney must be as good tactically as the Leinster coach, whose family originally came from Cork   

Penney is doing great.  But not a lot of Munster fans wanted that to be so when he first appeared on the horizon.  He was another non-Munster man who might not have what it takes to understand how Munster do rugby.  
It turns out that the non-believers were right afterall and Penney must go forth now to exile - tactically removing himself from Munster's equation.

And what mind altering drugs are you taking to have come to that opinion? The vast majority gave him the benefit of the doubt, there were concerns with the Pro 12 results last year but I wouldnt say there was any major criticism. The results this year have shown an improvement and he has brought on some of the younger players and developed them as was expected. The majority are sorry to see him go.

Oh hang on I forgot...you only like non Irish coaches....so you think its some conspiracy..

Come now.... I remember what I remember.  Benefit of the doubt given by some, yes.  But same argument existed that you now cough up in your last line.  "Why does Munster need a foreign coach...just because Leinster has one?"

Oh yes, I remember the conversations well, ME.

Anyway, he got his walking papers - a full year short of the timeframe he gave himself to have Munster back at the very top in Europe.  If he does it a year early, then Munster will have lost a genuine coach that could have taken them further.  If he doesn't do it this year, then Munster will have lost a genuine coach that could have taken them further.

You're right I did say that because of your (and others) overwhelming desire to have a foreign coach = therefore must be good. When Penney was chosen I was happy with it. Now he is gone for whatever reason (but its not a conspiracy)...and we will have a new coach. Clearly for you and others this is bad because he is Irish...and worse again he is from Munster....and guess what Axel will come and go and Munster rugby will go on...and on etc etc...

Some very valid points here. Kilcoyne should have been in front of McGrath who was only around to pick up a medal. Same goes for Moore, that fella is useless and Archer would have added much more to the Irish cause. Those two moves on their own would have given Ireland a grand slam. And the fact that Zebo wasn't selected and instead the yuppy Kearney was playing was shocking. Also how come JJ wasn't on the bench, he has far more impact than Madigan or Jackson.

I presume if things were going smoothly then Reddan and Ross would become Munstermen again, afterall that is where they are from rather than who they play for.

Either way, I'm hoping for a good game this weekend that will leave both teams in a great position going into the HC-QF games. After all, if either team plays like they did against Zebre or Treviso over the weekend then neither side will last too much longer in Europe.

JJs performance v Treviso possibly suggests he isnt quite ready for the Ireland squad. Anyone else think the WC may have come too soon for him?

Real talent in the making though.

Yeah, I'm very hopeful that JJ will mature into a better player than Madigan and offer competition for Paddy Jackson as second choice and long-term first choice out half.

But there isn't any real rush for me to push him into the squad, just let him develop at his own rate and he'll nail down a spot in good time.

ME-109 wrote:You're right I did say that because of your (and others) overwhelming desire to have a foreign coach = therefore must be good. When Penney was chosen I was happy with it. Now he is gone for whatever reason (but its not a conspiracy)...and we will have a new coach. Clearly for you and others this is bad because he is Irish...and worse again he is from Munster....and guess what Axel will come and go and Munster rugby will go on...and on etc etc...

No...if Axel is good...Axel will be good. His results will speak thus - as Schmidt's did for him.

If Axel proves up to it, he'll prove up to it.  Because - a little explanation here - unlike some here I believe in the odd theory that the more sides Ireland have playing at the top of their game, the better it is for me as a selfish basteraud who wants to see my 'club' Ireland beat all comers into the future.

Munster good and great means raw materials there for Ireland to be good and great.  I don't foot shoot like some here, wishing oblivion onto a rival Province.  That's illogical shyte and I don't go for illogical shyte.

Now, like I say, there seems to be some people who can never look at life so and will therefore want a few Leinster men 'killed' next week even though they were cheering them a week ago.

That's rivalry and a lot of fun in it, and no harm in it.  But me - my 'club/Province' when I was growing up was Ireland, back before the sheen of Professionalism and slick Sky HECs - it still is my 'Province'.  Leinster is but small change to the emotions I give to Ireland.
I specifically said to you when Munster were choosing their new coach a few years back that I was all for Penney dragging Munster back up.  And if Zebo gets four tries and Munster destroy Leinster next weekend I'll be laughing.

Penney will then have to write a very nice letter to his arch enemy, Schmidt, thanking him for his motivational tactics during the 6N.

I alway win.... no matter who wins.  Unless of course, it's Ireland losing... thus my annoyance at Kidney and his coaching folk.
If Axel comes into Ireland in the future and has us winning, he'll be a perfect selection...and we can always give him a token New Zealand passport to cover the other requirements

SecretFly wrote:
Anyway, he got his walking papers - a full year short of the timeframe he gave himself to have Munster back at the very top in Europe.  If he does it a year early, then Munster will have lost a genuine coach that could have taken them further.  If he doesn't do it this year, then Munster will have lost a genuine coach that could have taken them further.

He didn't get his walking papers - he was offered a year extention  (which is the time frame that he set himself )   He turned down the year extention he was offered by Munster Rugby for a lucractive one in Japan which will mean that
A) he will earn twice what he was getting with Munster
B) 3 Year Contract
C) Working 6 months of the year
D) Close to New Zealand where he has family (and 1 kid about to go to University).

He was offered a Year's extension...and money assigned to it... which probably didn't impress him on how skimpy it was given where he is in Europe and in the League and how happy everyone in Munster is alleged to have been with him.

But, I'd guess the offer was always designed not to interest him as the student and natural heir apparent to the Munster crown had done his apprenticeship and was now ready to do battle on his own terms.

Hail Axel!  The Return of the King.

At least Axel should stop the wheels coming off...

Boom boom

Gibbes said, “With Drico, he has had a couple of weeks in the spotlight, which doesn’t naturally sit well with him. He’s enjoyed coming back in here, putting his head down, preparing for this game, getting right, looking at images of Munster, getting excited about playing those guys.

  

Sin é wrote:

Gibbes said, “With Drico, he has had a couple of weeks in the spotlight, which doesn’t naturally sit well with him. He’s enjoyed coming back in here, putting his head down, preparing for this game, getting right, looking at images of Munster, getting excited about playing those guys.

  

Sin - I think you are a tad over sensitive for some reason there. Gibbes was making a joke about Leinster playing some 6 Nations Champions next week, which are more than likely going to have about 3 and a bit players from the Championship winning team. Leinster will have 7 or 8.

Drico's eyesight is going at this point so he needs to look closely at the Munster guy's mugshots just before a game so that he doesn't let them past him, thinking they're on his side.  Tricky stuff to get right for an old man.

I thought he got his eyes lazered recently.   

See where Kearney is stirring the pot as well. Notch will be mad at him!

Kearney was far more up front about whether Munster would hold a grudge.

“You probably would,” he admitted. “It is in the nature of being a competitor. If you don’t use something like that to fire you up and use it to your advantage, there is something a little bit wrong with you.

“I have no doubt they will use that. There’s no doubt that we’ve things to prove as well, you know, that there was such a strong Leinster contingent there. We have to show why. It is a double-edged sword.”

Kearney is so predictable. Can just hear him saying that in his boring monotone Cooley voice. Dont bother getting involved Kearndog.

I found Mike Ross' comments interesting. He said something along the lines that family tend to fight more in trying to explain provincial bickering.

A creche near where I live has a big banner out the front saying "Good luck to Mike Ross (Kevin's dad) in the six nations" - Is this a bit much maybe?

Sparks will fly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hopefully.

Though I'm a total pacifist and don't like violence and things and would expect Marquess of Queensberry rules to apply......   

SecretFly wrote:
Munster good and great means raw materials there for Ireland to be good and great...

...But me - my 'club/Province' when I was growing up was Ireland, back before the sheen of Professionalism and slick Sky HECs - it still is my 'Province'.  Leinster is but small change to the emotions I give to Ireland.

 

 Well said SF.

Have been saying this for years... but it never seems to get through the scepticism of many people. Despite my love for Leinster... it pales by comparison to my love of seeing players from one end of Ireland to the other putting last week's battles aside and coming together for a passionate team fight. My late father was a true blue Dub who loved Munster and they were the only team in his life (beyond the Dubs) that he travelled far and abroad to support. To many on here he would no doubt be a blow-in Lunster. He felt something similar - if less devoted - for Clare in hurling. Sport should be something to take us out of ourselves and our insular experiences. This site often makes you despair in that regard.

The linking of sports to a sort of genetic nationalist politics and localism is a real scourge. It's a complete displacement of what's important about it - and I think you're right to link it with the 'spectacularisation' and 'consumerisation' of rugby like soccer and other sports. There is a vicious circle where media hysteria produces nationalist hysterics.

Sport should no doubt be all about local development and local representation. But that doesn't necessarily need to make every statement a one-eyed one - or every selection a matter of political scandal. And the ironic fact is, that the more the nationalist/localist hysterics take over and are fueled by media coverage and money... the more the game becomes less about local development and representation. For the moment professional rugby in Ireland is just about keeping all ten fingers and thumbs in the dyke in that regard.