General RL Discussion!

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A thread we're we can discuss our sides, what's happening in RL, the future and everything else to do with Rugby League.

I really hope that Cas can keep up there early form and stay in the top 8.

Alternatively there is a video of the Press conference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN08or47l0s&feature=youtu.be

The Beast wrote:Good luck to whoever is chairing the meeting.

The problem boils down (as usual) to money SL wants a larger slice of the pie, if the proposal goes through and the next TV deal is £30m or less the RFL and lower league clubs money goes from £10m to zero which I would have thought would be the final nail in the coffin for a number of clubs (yes there could be a debate regarding mergers which whilst painful might be a way forward).

This is well worth a read and if the report of SL clubs threatening dual reg partners is true is imo very worrying.

https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/sport/16859328.super-league-club-is-accused-of-bullying-before-big-vote/

I think there will be blood on the carpet at the end of the day

To some surprise the new proposals have been voted through. SL will in 2019 return to one up one down P&R, a 5 team play-off and the extra "loop" fixture.

News on potential changes to the Championship & League 1 to hopefully follow one way or the other.

And here is the Championship/League 1 news;

http://www.rugby-league.com/article/53433/betfred-championship-and-league--structure-

14 team championship no major change to League 1, no automatic relegation for any Championship club, the team finishing 12th playing the losing League 1 playoff side (coin flip for the venue) to decide the 14th team in the Championship in 2019.

In 2019 Championship, top 5 playoff for promotion, bottom 2 automatically relegated.

The Beast wrote:To some surprise the new proposals have been voted through.  SL will in 2019 return to one up one down P&R, a 5 team play-off and the extra "loop" fixture.

News on potential changes to the Championship & League 1 to hopefully follow one way or the other.

I'm amazed it got passed to be honest, but what do i know.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/45520586

George Hotel1895 wrote:

The Beast wrote:To some surprise the new proposals have been voted through.  SL will in 2019 return to one up one down P&R, a 5 team play-off and the extra "loop" fixture.

News on potential changes to the Championship & League 1 to hopefully follow one way or the other.

I'm amazed it got passed to be honest, but what do i know.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/45520586

And the more I think about it the less I like it. At the end of day 11 of 12 SL chairmen have won the power struggle. The pressure is very much on Robert Elstone and those clubs to deliver a product and ensure the next broadcast deal delivers the money the game desperately needs.......or are they? If the money goes down to sub £30m the SL teams will be fine, everyone else can seemingly whistle. If the keep the parachute payment system, the current sides will have a major advantage over the everyone else.

It was the wrong decision in my opinion. And makes even less sense than the current formula.

So you make SL less interesting from about June judging from the last 2 years.
You add in loop fixtures which didn't work last time which is why they were got rid of.
And you go for a 1up 1 down system, where the team that fini8top of the championship aren't the gaurennted team to go up? How can you say the reason for getting of the middle 8s is the unfair jeapody whilst allowing this system.

Oh and you destroy something that was working for more money for sl clubs.
Whilst also putting other clubs and the game into a state that could lead to peril.
Just so the sl clubs can get more money stinks in my opinion.

Sad news for Widnes fans as they are relegated from SL following their loss in Toronto.

Hopefully their fans stick with them, trust me there is currently plenty of talented players, good rugby and entertainment in the Championship.

There's some already signed up to the stronghold for next season but probably more who say they won't go back whilst James Rule is still involved.

The next couple of weeks are probably some of the biggest in the club's history and for our future. Hopefully keep our hands on the good group of young lads we have, sack off the garbage like ah van, runciman and Cummins as coach, sack off sick notes that keep getting paid for nothing, thankfully Houston is retiring

I'm not angry at the relegation, we barely scraped through last season's qualifiers and this board failed to address any of the glaring issues

gazzyD wrote:There's some already signed up to the stronghold for next season but probably more who say they won't go back whilst James Rule is still involved.

The next couple of weeks are probably some of the biggest in the club's history and for our future. Hopefully keep our hands on the good group of young lads we have, sack off the garbage like ah van, runciman and Cummins as coach, sack off sick notes that keep getting paid for nothing, thankfully Houston is retiring

I'm not angry at the relegation, we barely scraped through last season's qualifiers and this board failed to address any of the glaring issues

I see you are staying full-time which on the face of it is good news but hopefully they won't fall into the same trap as Bradford and more recently Leigh by being blinded that it is the only way forward.

With respect to Houston I am sure the referee's will be relived he is retiring! Ah Van at Bradford was solid however I don't recall seeing a slower winger. I do agree, Cummins will be a good coach but right now probably not the man you are looking for, someone with lower league experience.

14 team championship next year one of whom will go up, York will be joining later today and they also play good rugby.

Yeah they've come out and said that, but time will tell on that front. Lucky to get 4k+ for a SL game, that figure will drop in championship despite likely putting out a more competitive product

Ah Van has been poor for a while now, he was a player you could usually bank on for a try but for every try he scored he'd cost you 4 with either poor positioning or dropping a high ball

Not just referees, Widnes fans too. So called captain who has zero leadership about him with his atrocious discipline

Feel for you mate.

Having been through it. The 1st couple of months afterwards hurt.
But if I'm honest really enjoyed last year. The away games I went to were a lot more fun. Fans mixed a lot more freely. It was nice to visit grounds I hadn't been to for a while. And playing Sundays at 3pm was fantastic.
Sl at the moment is monotonous and the playing on any night but Sunday meaning I can't go is slowly killing the game for me.

But some really tough decisions ahead. The big one is who you get as coach. That will tell the fans a lot if what Widnes are expecting from next year.

gazzyD wrote:There's some already signed up to the stronghold for next season but probably more who say they won't go back whilst James Rule is still involved.

The next couple of weeks are probably some of the biggest in the club's history and for our future. Hopefully keep our hands on the good group of young lads we have, sack off the garbage like ah van, runciman and Cummins as coach, sack off sick notes that keep getting paid for nothing, thankfully Houston is retiring

I'm not angry at the relegation, we barely scraped through last season's qualifiers and this board failed to address any of the glaring issues

Relegation is not the end of the world.
It gives team to rebuilt and develop players, and building for the future.

Congratulations to York City Knights, first team promoted this year, Champions of League 1.

Jimmy Keinhorst moving from Leeds to Hull KR being rumoured?

Man of Steel nominees are;

James Roby
John Bateman
Ben Barba

Tough choice, one or two unlucky perhaps not to be there i.e. Paul McShane. I suspect Roby, my vote (not that I have one of course) would be Bateman.

Agree with your comments about your. They deserved it especially when you think a year ago they weren't even on the original fixture list. A club being run in the right way.

The rumours about Klienhorst have been doing the res since June, I think this one could be true. And that would be a great signing in my eyes.

Agree with your man of steel comments, and certainly think Mcshane should have been on there. Barba was fantastic for the first 4 months, but hasn't really done anything for me.
Bateman deserves it for me.

First of the final Rd of qualifiers tonight. Salford win convincingly to seal staying in SL. So we'll done them, and just how good has Jackson Hastings been for them, I would imagine there are quite a few SL clubs wondering why they didn't take the punt on him now.

Eddie Hearn again showing interest in being involved in the sport, he has done a lot of good work in Boxing. What I am not liking is an proposal to ditch the salary cap.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/sep/28/eddie-hearn-aims-to-revolutionise-rugby-league-with-ambitious-plans

I would like the game as a whole to improve the product on the pitch and one way IMO to do this is to clear up the ruck as it is in the NRL. Not just SL but Championship & League 1, having seen a fair amount of the latter this year (perhaps next year too) some of the games are horribly slow. If the RFL, clubs, coaches, referees bought into it I cannot see why this is not achievable and there are no costs or am I being overly ambitious?

Totally agree about cleaning up the ruck area.
Personally would use the linesman/woman as the defence marker and leave the ref to watch the ruck. And for gods sake players should be penalised for not playing the ball. Yes at first there would be a lot if penalties but surely teams and coaches will learn and stop doing it.
Another thing, if a player falls over or trys to contact the ref like in last night's game and tonight's. Bin them for unsportsmanlike behaviour. Get rid if that as well.

Luke wrote:Totally agree about cleaning up the ruck area.
Personally would use the linesman/woman as the defence marker and leave the ref to watch the ruck. And for gods sake players should be penalised for not playing the ball. Yes at first there would be a lot if penalties but surely teams and coaches will learn and stop doing it.
Another thing, if a player falls over or trys to contact the ref like in last night's game and tonight's.  Bin them for unsportsmanlike behaviour. Get rid if that as well.

Good points

Just saw this and thought I would post here, very funny. Malcolm Reilly describing his conversation with the Queen when collecting his OBE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTvzucldvsw

I will admit to be unsurprised to read that Francis Cummins is leaving Widnes. I feel for him and hope his next job has some degree of a chance of success but Widnes IMO need an experience Championship coach for next year.

SL Grand Final Wigan v Warrington. Feel a bit for Saints who have clearly been the best side all year but credit to Warrington.

I have come back from seeing the first 65 mins of Wigan v Cas, to be honest not much to write home about. Cas whilst hammered by the ref were IMO pretty awful and Wigan whilst defensively rock solid were very ordinary in attack however I do see them winning next week.

The Beast wrote:SL Grand Final Wigan v Warrington.  Feel a bit for Saints who have clearly been the best side all year but credit to Warrington.  

I have come back from seeing the first 65 mins of Wigan v Cas, to be honest not much to write home about.  Cas whilst hammered by the ref were IMO pretty awful and Wigan whilst defensively rock solid were very ordinary in attack however I do see them winning next week.

I can only see a Wigan win.

Rightly all eyes to Manchester tonight for Wigan v Warrington SL Grand Final, like GH I am going for Wigan although it would be good for a new team to win.

Meanwhile the final domestic game will be on Sunday with Swinton v Workington for the final place in the Championship. With the extra game only announced 4 weeks ago, injuries to Oliver Wilkes and Sean Penkywicz, Fui Fui Moi Moi suspended having been sent off for a high tackle at Bradford Workington have announced they have 12 available players, the RFL have rejected their request to bring in loan signings.

The Workington situation is a ridiculous one. Everyone could see the problems this fixture could have. It should have always just been promoted the top 2. And start this fixture from next year.
And given last week's championship final problems with Leigh. You would think the RFL wouldn't want 2 lower league finals made a shambles by lack of numbers for 1 side.

Congratulations to Wigan, SL champions 2019, unbeaten in the Super 8's deserves their win.

Arguably rightly so that defences were generally on top but I am concerned off the cuff rugby is being coached out of players and there is an obsession with structures, structures, structures, players making half breaks with no support/no idea what to do next other than to set up for the next scripted play. We do need people to be entertained and to be completely honest I wasn't, first half not bad the second half was a bit of a chore.

Just to add as I forgot earlier, for my money Sam Tompkins was very fortunate to stay on the pitch for the trip on Goodwin, perhaps not a red but 10 minutes in the bin in any other game.

I was going to start a thread for the internationals however it is a bit late. Fantastic to see such a depleted England squad playing so well 2 - 0 (3 if you include Denver) over a very talented NZ side who recently beat Australia. Starting to show real strength in depth shame we are not also playing the Aussies.

Championship 2019 fixtures have been delayed. Rumour is that this is due to the very serious issues at Leigh are in special measures with very few players or coaching staff. Sad times for their fans, feel for them, will they start the 2019 season?

Lots of Widnes news

Gellingbisnt coming because of *cough* visa issues (and the contract offer from Catalans

James Rule is leaving his post as CEO

Steve O'Connor and the remaining board members announce they are willing to gift their shares to the roght person or persons who can come in and take ove the club

Looks like Luke Backhouse and Backhouse Group likely to become key stakeholders in the club. This all comes just a week after the following interview took place which was a really interesting listen

This is quite interesting mate, safe to say those few who still somehow had positives about the Widnes board likely wont after this

https://youtu.be/cizGqaAwdfM

gazzyD wrote:Lots of Widnes news

Gellingbisnt coming because of *cough* visa issues (and the contract offer from Catalans

James Rule is leaving his post as CEO

Steve O'Connor and the remaining board members announce they are willing to gift their shares to the roght person or persons who can come in and take ove the club

Looks like Luke Backhouse and Backhouse Group likely to become key stakeholders in the club. This all comes just a week after the following interview took place which was a really interesting listen

This is quite interesting mate, safe to say those few who still somehow had positives about the Widnes board likely wont after this

https://youtu.be/cizGqaAwdfM

Thanks Gazzy, I saw that Rule had resigned and thought of you straight away.

Very interesting interview, a couple of things jumped out. The coach not selecting which players are brought in sounds exactly like Bradford when Jimmy Lowes was coach a time when it is largely thought the CEO Steve Gill was bringing players in. It's not rocket science and the Bulls are a fine example of what happens when key personnel are not on the same page.

A sponsor who funded signings in the qualifiers, not invited to the end of season dinner, wow I mean WOW, I would have been kissing his a**e.

Interesting comments on Bradford, no news on if Andrew Chalmers is looking for partners, he has however effectively bought Graham Lowe's share of the club.

Granted one interview but Mr. Backhouse sounds like he has sound realistic ideas with the offer to take the club on he seems an obvious candidate. I agree in the Championship you need experienced Championship players and certainly a couple of big bodied enforcer forwards. Bradford has brought several academy players through which is great but in 2017 they were routinely physically bullied. IMO you have to have someone out there who if nothing else makes opposition players think twice when considering giving the young lads a slap to test them.

Toronto are of course nailed on to finish top of the regular season at least but the championship arguably looks more interesting than SL.

I think most Widnes fans have there fingers crossed that Backhouse Group do indeed follow up on this initial interest, seems to have some ideas andhes bang on about not trying to get some of Liverpool interested, even if it was only 250-500 people who took interest it's more than the outgoing regime attempted to get

Interesting on gelling, to throw the cat amongst the pigeons, despite his tweet the other day saying he wouldn't be signing afterall, he arrived in Widnes yesterday and apparently is training with the squad this morning

As a Bradford supporter I find it impossible not to hold Steve O'Connor in the highest regard however whilst not knowing the details it does appear leaving the day to day running of the club to Rule seems in hindsight a major issue. Just watching the following video (Widnes chat # 6) brings home how unpopular Rule is/was, not engaging the fans and sponsors is staggering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV8s9xCFnoo

It sounds like Gelling needs to make his mind up, he is quality and could light up the division but IMO if he does not really want to be there let him go.

Holmes and Maher to miss the start of the season
https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-league/46458234

Two ridiculous situations have reared their heads over the past couple of weeks.

1, Catalan Dragons may not defend their Challenge Cup trophy having been asked to pay a £500,000 bond to cover potential RFL losses. They could join Toronto and Toulouse in not participating similarly asked to pay the deposit. Total madness from the RFL, perhaps they should have selected a non-bank holiday weekend to play last years' final, marketed the game and found a sponsor for this season perhaps they might have a better outcome.

2, SL clubs have voted in new rule changes, Golden Point, Shot Clocks, trial of 2 referees* etc. All well and good it could be said however the Championship & League 1 will not be following suit. Which other sport on earth has different rules for different divisions?

* Thinking of referees where are they going to come from? Several have left over the past two years, if there are going to be two for each SL game who will take charge of lower league games? Perhaps ask volunteers in the crowd?

The Beast wrote:Two ridiculous situations have reared their heads over the past couple of weeks.

1, Catalan Dragons may not defend their Challenge Cup trophy having been asked to pay a £500,000 bond to cover potential RFL losses.  They could join Toronto and Toulouse in not participating similarly asked to pay the deposit.  Total madness from the RFL, perhaps they should have selected a non-bank holiday weekend to play last years' final, marketed the game and found a sponsor for this season perhaps they might have a better outcome.

2, SL clubs have voted in new rule changes, Golden Point, Shot Clocks, trial of 2 referees* etc.  All well and good it could be said however the Championship & League 1 will not be following suit.  Which other sport on earth has different rules for different divisions?

* Thinking of referees where are they going to come from?  Several have left over the past two years, if there are going to be two for each SL game who will take charge of lower league games?  Perhaps ask volunteers in the crowd?

Good point about the refs Mick. Despite efforts by the RFL we could do with a lot more match day officals.
I just wish when i had finished playing i had picked up the whistle. I wish others when they retire from playing would consider beings refs

The surprise results keep rolling in, Wigan losing at home to Huddersfield, Catalans having turned Warrington over the previous week are hammered by Salford (0 - 46) in France and Toulouse, wow hammering Toronto in the Championship (46 - 16)

I don't think Toronto are that good, just have a deep and strong squad. And to be perfectly honest, I don't think SL is great this year.2 teams that are good (Saints and Wire), the rest are pretty much the same. Wigan were always going to struggle with who left, and the daft coaching situation. Catalan other than a few cup games and a month last year, have been poor/underachieving for the last 2 years. Though Salford look alot better side than what people think they are.

Luke wrote:I don't think Toronto are that good, just have a deep and strong squad. And to be perfectly honest, I don't think SL is great this year.2 teams that are good (Saints and Wire), the rest are pretty much the same. Wigan were always going to struggle with who left, and the daft coaching situation. Catalan other than a few cup games and a month last year, have been poor/underachieving for the last 2 years. Though Salford look alot better side than what people think they are.

Toulouse or Toronto to win the championship and either Saints or Wolves to win the Super League Grand final

Just how good are York doing? Doubt that they will stay there,but they're doing fantastic at this moment. And the championship looks a decent comp, with other side's like Sheffield playing well. Think George is probably right, but it's good to see a competitive league unlike last year.

I wouldn't disagree with either of you, Toronto & Toulouse look the obvious choice however whilst this might be a long shot given the competitive nature of the division and other sides taking losses Widnes if they can avoid injuries could yet scrape into the top 5???

The Beast wrote:I wouldn't disagree with either of you, Toronto & Toulouse look the obvious choice however whilst this might be a long shot given the competitive nature of the division and other sides taking losses Widnes if they can avoid injuries could yet scrape into the top 5???

That what be some achievement by Widnes if they made the top 5

Interesting viewing figures from Championship Big Bash Toronto v Toulouse had a peak figure of 126k. Leigh v Widnes 87k had more viewers than Leeds v Castleford (admittedly a Thursday night game).

Food for thought hopefully for Sky or perhaps the Championship can as muted negotiate their own TV deal?

Well that's magic weekend out of the way. And reading on websites Anfield not getting alot if praise.
Never understood why we need 50 thousand plus venues for it.
As the days figures shows, hold it in 30/40 thousand stadiums and it's nearly packed giving a much better presentation to TV viewers.
On the playing side, only thing that really stood out was how good Saints are (which we already knew), as Nd just how bad Hull were.

Luke wrote:Well that's magic weekend out of the way. And reading on websites Anfield not getting alot if praise.
Never understood why we need 50 thousand plus venues for it.
As the days figures shows, hold it in 30/40 thousand stadiums and it's nearly packed giving a much better presentation to TV viewers.
On the playing side, only thing that really stood out was how good Saints are (which we already knew), as Nd just how bad Hull were.

I think I'm right in saying we are committed to playing as Anfield again next season, but for sure we need a lot better marketing to make it a success

Hull put in a superb performance to demolish Catalan and march forward to the challenge cup semi's.
And now on to tomorrow we're Rovers have to put in a massive effort to beat a hot Warrington team.

Though the tie if the 8's is arguably Halifax/Bradford. Good luck Beast.

Rovers out. After a strange performance, not a great one by Rovers in any sense if the imagination. But still to nearly win gives me some hope. Next week's game v Wigan is now massive.

They gave a good account in a game where they were second favourites. Wigan game is important, I still think you will be ok particularly if you can get more forwards back fit.

Likely a close game today, Fax apparently bookies favourites (2 points start??). Hopefully they will have Jake Webster, Rowan Milnes & Ross Peltier back after the last 30 minute debacle at Fev. I still think that there is a hangover from Leeds and the team needs a break, particularly if they win today I would be tempted to take the U19's to Barrow on Wednesday night for the 1895 cup.

Looks like reserve grades will be mandatory soon. This will have a big impact on some clubs e.g. Salford, Widnes.

There are rules with not all clubs needing to have reserves, sorry I don't see the excuse, Bradford and Halifax can so all SL sides should be the absolute minimum and for me you can add academy sides to that too.