Cleverly Leaves Warren

First topic message reminder :

Jumps ship to Hearn. Warren claims he's still under contract. Legal battle ensues.....

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:ACTUAL QUALIFIED PRACTISING LAWYER

Only in Scotland though.

He only mediates between public floggings and beheadings.

Leeds as well. There have been 5 cases this week alone of bread thefts.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Strongback wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:Strongback, it has happened, oh my goodness, get over it. Did Hearn sleep with your wife or something, seriously....

Haha seriously, PMSL has never been a more apt acronym.  Strongy has literally no knowledge or understanding of what he's talking about and is trying to tell an ACTUAL QUALIFIED PRACTISING LAWYER what the law is.  Haven't laughed so hard in ages.

Trying adding to the debate.  All noise and no content with you.

What, because you are adding anything....??

You're not, your just finding new delusional vehicles for your bile.

You're full of sh!t, basically, and getting made to look an idiot.  Hence I'm just sitting back and laughing at you.

#blameeddie

Can't be bothered with Strongy like most..........But does Tophat offer anything but insults ??

Not suggesting you get rid....or anything...

It's just a question ??

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Strongback wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:Strongback, it has happened, oh my goodness, get over it. Did Hearn sleep with your wife or something, seriously....

Haha seriously, PMSL has never been a more apt acronym.  Strongy has literally no knowledge or understanding of what he's talking about and is trying to tell an ACTUAL QUALIFIED PRACTISING LAWYER what the law is.  Haven't laughed so hard in ages.

Trying adding to the debate.  All noise and no content with you.

What, because you are adding anything....??

You're not, your just finding new delusional vehicles for your bile.

You're full of sh!t, basically, and getting made to look an idiot.  Hence I'm just sitting back and laughing at you.

#blameeddie

Can't be bothered with Strongy like most..........But does Tophat offer anything but insults ??

Not suggesting you get rid....or anything...

It's just a question ??

Nope, I do offer, it's just as per usual (and as many others have pointed out) when anyone's contribution disagrees with you, exposes you or has a difference of opinion to you, you disregard it and start chucking insults around.

Rowley wrote:

Strongback wrote:

Rowley wrote:So what are you actually accusing Eddie of here strongy? I am confused.

He tapped up Cleverly.


This is what Warren said when Stephen Smith jumped the fence:

“Mr. Warren will defend his rights as both the Manager and Promoter of Stephen Smith and a complaint has already been lodged at the British Boxing Board of Control and a letter sent to his solicitors,” a rebuttal statement read.

“Other parties, who we are aware have induced Mr. Smith to breach his contract and in doing so have tortuously interfered with Mr Warren’s rights, will also be the subject of action through the BBBofC and the Courts.”


Ricky Byrnes allegedly owes Warren £160,000.   Tony Bellew paid Warren off.  Barry Hearn is giving Frank a nice little kick in the bollox. What comes around goes around.

As I said earlier if he has breached a legal contract between Clev and Warren he will be sued and will lose. However based on his practices thus far and instances where he has been accused of similar the chances of this seem remote, to everyone other than you of course.

For example I believe Ricky Burns is involved in a legal case instigated by Warren.

Footballers get tapped up all the time even though it breeches their contract. Having a contract and enforcing it are two different things. Eddie Hearn is every bit as ruthless as Warren in this regard despite the good tan, nice hair, winning smile and the fact he is your new best friend. If he had a quarter of the brains of his daddy he could have a long term future in the sport when Barry retires. Unfortunately for him he doesn't.

Everybody is ruthless in the promotion game..........

Eddie Hearn has more of a hold on British boxing than Barry or Frank ever did !!

I've never met him. As I said earlier if tapping up happens all the time in boxing why would we expect anything else from Eddie? Upholding him to a different standard than everyone else in his profession does seem suggestive of an agenda on your part.

Rowley wrote:I've never met him. As I said earlier if tapping up happens all the time in boxing why would we expect anything else from Eddie? Upholding him to a different standard than everyone else in his profession does seem suggestive of an agenda on your part.

My attitude towards Eddie's duplicitous character is based on looking at a man who is incredibly false.  I don't like Tony Blair or Barrack Obama for the same reason.  Eddie sold himself as Mr Nice but the more I watch him all I see is sleaze.  He's no different to the rest of them despite the massive pr campaign he ran promoting himself.

He sold himself on being Mr Nice ??.. WTF

He's a promoter FFS............

You haven't met the guy...

What is the matter with you !!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:He sold himself on being Mr Nice ??.. WTF

He's a promoter FFS............

You haven't met the guy...

What is the matter with you !!

I know I diss'd your hero's in that post but it wasn't meant to be personal attack on you..

You've lost me....But Mate it's becoming a crusade and you're making yourself look silly..

The weightlifting thread seems to be getting more popular why don't you cool off on there...and impart some wisdom..

Especially your thoughts on Smith machine Squats ..

Why you still persist Strongy despite being proved wrong by all and sundry is something I don't understand. Trolling at it's most obvious, a good troll can diversify about time you did the same.

Probably because you persist in pointing it out.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You've lost me....But Mate it's becoming a crusade and you're making yourself look silly..

The weightlifting thread seems to be getting more popular why don't you cool off on there...and impart some wisdom..

Especially your thoughts on Smith machine Squats ..

The bit about Obama and Blair.

I will be proved right about Eddie. Look at all those people that used to be big Haye fans. It just takes time.

They were going to execute Galileo for stating the earth wasn't flat.

I don't like tony Blair..........I'd try the b**tard for war crimes....

Obama has been a letdown...I wanted Hillary to win because I thought she had more bite and I was right !!.....He's just another show pony..

Apart from that you're spot on..   

But let's not talk politics........Rowley doesn't like it..

Strongback wrote:

superflyweight wrote:Doesn't matter if he is managing a fighter, he still wouldn't be the fighter's employer.  Again, the fighter would be appointing him to perform management services on the fighter's behalf and the arrangement would be covered by a management contract and not a contract of employment.  

He won't be paying them "wages" in the traditional sense of that word.  He'll be making payments in the form of advances to them on the assumption that those will be clawed back when the fighter starts earning and there will be provision in the contract for that.    

So no fighter was ever paid wages "on the books"........interesting assumption.

Not an assumption I made at all and I think you may be thinking about this all wrong.  

I'm not aware of any boxing promoters who employ fighters.  Instead (and as I said above), the promoter will be providing promotion services (and maybe management services) to the fighter in return for a fee.  The fee is likely to be a basic retainer (maybe in form of a flat annual fee) plus a percentage of earnings.  Now at the start of a career, a fighter may not have the means to cover the costs they will incur (e.g. training camp costs) before they earn their purse and the contract with the promoter could provide that the promoter will cover those costs (and maybe pay them a living wage) but will then recover their outlay from the fighter's future earnings.  Nothing "off the books" about it and completely normal in the world of contract law.  A similar model is followed in the music industry where the studios recover advance payments of costs through record sales/downloads.  

The other point to note is that there is absolutely no contractual relationship between Hearn and Warren when it comes to their respective contracts with their fighters.  If Eddie is speaking to Warren's fighters he's not breaching any contract with Warren.  Equally, there's nothing in the common law which prevents "tapping up".  It might be a rule under the laws of football (and other sports) but its purpose is to prevent the unsettling of employees (which footballers are).  It would be inappropriate to apply it to promotion contracts in boxing because as I've said above, fighters are not employed by promoters.  You might not like the idea of one promoter approaching another promoter's fighters, but it's no different to Virgin phoning you to find out if you're happy with the service you get from Sky and it's a necessary evil of a free market.  

If Warren has a claim against Burns it will be because he believes that Burns has not complied with the terms of his contract in exiting it.  I obviously can't comment on this as haven't seen the terms of the contract, but I'd be surprised if it's not settled out of court to the satisfaction of both parties.  Hearn may well have agreed to pay any compensation owed to Warren as part of his promotion contract with Burns and again, there's nothing in law which says he can't do so.

Music contracts are notoriously difficult to get out of, Bruce Springsteen being the classic example when he gave up recording and just toured until he could get out of his contract. George Michael is another recent example who also didn't record for several years when he fell out with his record company.  Tapping up of recording artists is rare.  Music contract law is pretty watertight and nothing like boxing.  My brother in law is a recording artists and has been through it all. Spotify are who he hates. Daft Punk only got $13,000 for millions of Spotify plays of the hit song of 2013 "Get Lucky".


I am fairly sure from press statements by the BBBC that fighters are only contracted to one manager at a time.  There seems to be a standard form of contract that the BBBC provides. The BBBC have previously backed Warren in relation to his fighters jumping ship.  The BBBC contract seem to be easily circumvented though.  I would be highly surprised if the contract does not specify that the fighter cannot speak to another potential manager without the permission of his current manager.

Strongback wrote:I will be proved right about Eddie

Proved right about what exactly? That he's a bit sneaky? That he'll resort to less-than-completely-fair tactics to achieve his goals? That he's not always a 'nice guy'? These are hardly revelations. The fact that he's not a saint doesn't mean he's someone particularly worthy of scorn. He doesn't stand out as being particularly bad in comparison to other boxing promoters, both past and present. I'm pretty lost as to what's supposed to be 'proved' about him.

Strongback wrote:They were going to execute Galileo for stating the earth wasn't flat.

Yes, you're a misunderstood genius. Just like Galilieo. Comparing your assessment of some boxing promoter's personality to one of the biggest paradigm shifts in scientific history. Nicely done.

Boxtthis wrote:

Strongback wrote:I will be proved right about Eddie

Proved right about what exactly? That he's a bit sneaky? That he'll resort to less-than-completely-fair tactics to achieve his goals? That he's not always a 'nice guy'? These are hardly revelations. The fact that he's not a saint doesn't mean he's someone particularly worthy of scorn. He doesn't stand out as being particularly bad in comparison to other boxing promoters, both past and present. I'm pretty lost as to what's supposed to be 'proved' about him.

Strongback wrote:They were going to execute Galileo for stating the earth wasn't flat.

Yes, you're a misunderstood genius. Just like Galilieo. Comparing your assessment of some boxing promoter's personality to one of the biggest paradigm shifts in scientific history. Nicely done.

Eddie came on the scene as every bodies best mate who you could talk to on twitter and was all about the fans.  The man was nothing more than a fan himself. Some people have a short memory. I pointed out early that he was talking garbage. Everybody else fell in love with him.

Now when Eddie pulls an underhanded stroke it's defended as fair play.  What about all the dire cards he has put on that are no better than Warrens........oh yes he gets a free pass for that because at this stage he's a mate.

I'm certainly not comparing my genius to Galilieo's but I did raise the point that something others had speculated centuries before Galilieo was stilled perceived as wrong when even the great scientist said it. There's nothing difficult about convincing sheep to follow the herd.

Hearn has and is continuing to do a brilliant job for his fighters, the fact that almost all of Warrens big guns have jumped ship suggests the grass is greener with Matchroom.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Hearn has and is continuing to do a brilliant job for his fighters, the fact that almost all of Warrens big guns have jumped ship suggests the grass is greener with Matchroom.

Hearn has the Sky deal and fighters want to be on this platform.

Remember Eddie said that without the Sky deal Matchroom would not be in boxing. When things take a turn for the worse don't expect boxings biggest fan Eddie to be around.

Do you have a single shred of evidence to suggest it might go wrong or is it blind pitiful hope?

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Do you have a single shred of evidence to suggest it might go wrong or is it blind pitiful hope?

Nothing lasts forever................. if I have shattered your illusions I apologise.

Barry Hearn walked out of boxing before leaving a lot of fighters high and dry. It was a right mess.

So basically it's just blind hope.

Barker, Froch, Purdy, Quigg, Groves, Burns, Bellew and the rest must be very angry at the money Hearn has helped them earn.

I don't care much for the future, it's about the here and now, he's doing a strrling job for his fighters. Lighten up and stop being so bitter.

Barker, Froch, Purdy, Quigg, Groves, Burns, Bellew......only one proper strap holder between them and he got the strap when managed by Mick. Mick must be a guru too.

Let's see how good a match maker Hearn is. Nothing to write home about yet.

Froch was managed by Hearn when he beat Bute for the IBF title strong in his home town coming off a schooling to Ward, he's did a terrible job securing that fight and the subsequent Kessler and Groves rematches. Froch hasn't had to travel to America or Finland since he joined Hearn, what an awful promoter he is.

Purdy not deserving of a title shot gets a big day thanks to Hearn.
Burns lucky to keep his belt gets home advantage and a big pay day to face top American prospect Crawford.
Barker with an injury laden career gets two world title shots including one against the top dog, wins the second before getting a massive £1mil payday in his final fight.
Groves gets two big days and title shots.
Bellew has his career revitalised after losing to Cleverly, gets a big pay day to face Stevenson.

Do tell me what more Hearn could have done for those fighters?

That's not even mentioning Matthews a relative domestic journeyman who got fights against all the top domestic stars at lightweight. There's also Rocky Fielding getting good exposure fighting on undercards, as well as Quigg, Campbell, Joshua, Coyle, Brook, Crolla, Mitchell and Cardle.

He has one current world champion, had 3 former world champions, 10 regional champions and a host of young prospects.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Froch was managed by Hearn when he beat Bute for the IBF title strong in his home town coming off a schooling to Ward, he's did a terrible job securing that fight and the subsequent Kessler and Groves rematches. Froch hasn't had to travel to America or Finland since he joined Hearn, what an awful promoter he is.

Purdy not deserving of a title shot gets a big day thanks to Hearn.
Burns lucky to keep his belt gets home advantage and a big pay day to face top American prospect Crawford.
Barker with an injury laden career gets two world title shots including one against the top dog, wins the second before getting a massive £1mil payday in his final fight.
Groves gets two big days and title shots.
Bellew has his career revitalised after losing to Cleverly, gets a big pay day to face Stevenson.

Do tell me what more Hearn could have done for those fighters?

That's not even mentioning Matthews a relative domestic journeyman who got fights against all the top domestic stars at lightweight. There's also Rocky Fielding getting good exposure fighting on undercards, as well as Quigg, Campbell, Joshua, Coyle, Brook, Crolla, Mitchell and Cardle.

He has one current world champion, had 3 former world champions, 10 regional champions and a host of young prospects.

Yeah, what a f*cking b*stard he is!

superflyweight wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Froch was managed by Hearn when he beat Bute for the IBF title strong in his home town coming off a schooling to Ward, he's did a terrible job securing that fight and the subsequent Kessler and Groves rematches. Froch hasn't had to travel to America or Finland since he joined Hearn, what an awful promoter he is.

Purdy not deserving of a title shot gets a big day thanks to Hearn.
Burns lucky to keep his belt gets home advantage and a big pay day to face top American prospect Crawford.
Barker with an injury laden career gets two world title shots including one against the top dog, wins the second before getting a massive £1mil payday in his final fight.
Groves gets two big days and title shots.
Bellew has his career revitalised after losing to Cleverly, gets a big pay day to face Stevenson.

Do tell me what more Hearn could have done for those fighters?

That's not even mentioning Matthews a relative domestic journeyman who got fights against all the top domestic stars at lightweight. There's also Rocky Fielding getting good exposure fighting on undercards, as well as Quigg, Campbell, Joshua, Coyle, Brook, Crolla, Mitchell and Cardle.

He has one current world champion, had 3 former world champions, 10 regional champions and a host of young prospects.

Yeah, what a f*cking b*stard he is!

Reckon strongie is a call centre guy for Warrens PPV channel. Is the only reason I can think of that he dislikes a guy who is putting on half decent cards.

Probably splurged all over the press conf with Chisora vs Fury in his yank sock

Izzi wrote:

superflyweight wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Froch was managed by Hearn when he beat Bute for the IBF title strong in his home town coming off a schooling to Ward, he's did a terrible job securing that fight and the subsequent Kessler and Groves rematches. Froch hasn't had to travel to America or Finland since he joined Hearn, what an awful promoter he is.

Purdy not deserving of a title shot gets a big day thanks to Hearn.
Burns lucky to keep his belt gets home advantage and a big pay day to face top American prospect Crawford.
Barker with an injury laden career gets two world title shots including one against the top dog, wins the second before getting a massive £1mil payday in his final fight.
Groves gets two big days and title shots.
Bellew has his career revitalised after losing to Cleverly, gets a big pay day to face Stevenson.

Do tell me what more Hearn could have done for those fighters?

That's not even mentioning Matthews a relative domestic journeyman who got fights against all the top domestic stars at lightweight. There's also Rocky Fielding getting good exposure fighting on undercards, as well as Quigg, Campbell, Joshua, Coyle, Brook, Crolla, Mitchell and Cardle.

He has one current world champion, had 3 former world champions, 10 regional champions and a host of young prospects.

Yeah, what a f*cking b*stard he is!

Reckon strongie is a call centre guy for Warrens PPV channel. Is the only reason I can think of that he dislikes a guy who is putting on half decent cards.

Probably splurged all over the press conf with Chisora vs Fury in his yank sock

He's not putting on half decent cards is he. Do your homework son before shooting your mouth off.

Fwiw I can see exactly where Strongy is coming from. Its a harsh opinion but I can still understand it. Hearn isn't above criticism though, we've had some dire cards in the last year and we're being sold some proper lemons in the process.

As a fan I couldn't give a monkeys if Purdy gets a world title shot, in fact, I'd rather he hadn't, likewise Rees. Neither made for good viewing.

If two boxers are promoted by Hearn and at a similar level, such as Cleverley and Bellew, then the fight is a lot more likely to be made than if one was promoted by Warren and the other by Hearn. Also a lot more likely to be made than if they were both promoted by Warren.
If one of your favourite boxers is promoted by Warren, expect a lot more TBA opponents than if they was with Hearn , although recently Hearn's shows are showing signs of going down the same path.

Sorry Aja but that doesn't add up for the following reason:

Cleverly vs Bellew 1 was made by warren when both were his fighters.

So erm... Yeah.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Froch was managed by Hearn when he beat Bute for the IBF title strong in his home town coming off a schooling to Ward, he's did a terrible job securing that fight and the subsequent Kessler and Groves rematches. Froch hasn't had to travel to America or Finland since he joined Hearn, what an awful promoter he is.

Purdy not deserving of a title shot gets a big day thanks to Hearn.
Burns lucky to keep his belt gets home advantage and a big pay day to face top American prospect Crawford.
Barker with an injury laden career gets two world title shots including one against the top dog, wins the second before getting a massive £1mil payday in his final fight.
Groves gets two big days and title shots.
Bellew has his career revitalised after losing to Cleverly, gets a big pay day to face Stevenson.

Do tell me what more Hearn could have done for those fighters?

That's not even mentioning Matthews a relative domestic journeyman who got fights against all the top domestic stars at lightweight. There's also Rocky Fielding getting good exposure fighting on undercards, as well as Quigg, Campbell, Joshua, Coyle, Brook, Crolla, Mitchell and Cardle.

He has one current world champion, had 3 former world champions, 10 regional champions and a host of young prospects.

Yeah but they are all Barry's doing. Barry is the brains behind the whole show and so is responsible for anything good or praise worthy Matchroom do. Eddie is just responsible for the rubbish bits.

rob-glos wrote:Sorry Aja but that doesn't add up for the following reason:

Cleverly vs Bellew 1 was made by warren when both were his fighters.

So erm... Yeah.

Yes true, but what happened once it was established who the best British lightheavy was. Was they allowed to fight in the states and face the best? Or stagnate on Boxnation against people outside the top 10 in their division?

That's a different argument entirely and I don't think either Hearn or Warren are particularly fond of sending their fighters abroad. 

Both have said as much, always seek home advantage of possible. 

The only time Eddie has sent fighters abroad has been for big paydays and as a rule... They've got battered.

Hearn has sent a fair few of his fighters abroad Rob and the fact they have lost doesn't really change that. You tend to only travel if you're fighting a bigger name who's more well known because they're probably better than you.

If you can get high ranking opponents into your own backyard then you're going to do it something Hearn has done a fair bit more than Warren in recent years.

It shows how irrelevant warren has become when fans can forget just how bad he was.

Does anyone else like his cheeky little smile?