Dragons V Edinburgh

by **RDW** Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:54 am

Dragons V Edinburgh

At Rodney Parade, 6.30pm. Live on S4C/BBC ALBA
Referee: Leo Colgan (IRFU, 15th competition game) Headscratch

Assistant Referees: Simon Rees, Greg Morgan (both WRU)
Citing Commissioner: John Charles (WRU)
TMO: Derek Bevan (WRU)

Dragons

Dan Evans, Tom Prydie, Pat Leach, Jack Dixon, Hallam Amos, Jason Mason, Richie Rees;
Dragons squad

Phil Price, Elliot Dee, Duncan Bell, Andrew Coombs (c), Matthew Screech, Lewis Evans, Nic Cudd, Taulupe Faletau.

Replacements

Sam Parry, Owen Evans, Bruce Douglas, Cory Hill, Jevon Groves, Wayne Evans, Ross Wardle, Will Harries.

Edinburgh

15 Cuthbert
14 Hidalgo-Clyne Shocked

13 Scott
12 Strauss
11 Brown
10 Leonard
9 Hart

1 Dickinson
2 Ford
3 Nel
4 Gilchrist
5 VDV
6 Coman (C)
7 Du Preez
8 Denton

Subs - Hilterbrand, Blaauw, Berghan, Atkins, Grant, Kenedy, Bezzy, Beard

by **RDW** Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:54 am

Edinburgh have gone for a monstrous pack, the biggest we have probably ever fielded, with a particularly subtle backrow. Some strange calls though, particularly Sam Hidalgo Clyne on the wing who is normally a scrum half but can deputise as a tackle shy fullback if required. Given the number of talented young academy wingers Edinburgh have you've got to wonder what they've got to do to get picked.

by tigertattie Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:01 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Given the number of talented young academy wingers Edinburgh have you've got to wonder what they've got to do to get picked.

be South African?

by munkian Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:09 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Edinburgh have gone for a monstrous pack, the biggest we have probably ever fielded, with a particularly subtle backrow. Some strange calls though, particularly Sam Hidalgo Clyne on the wing who is normally a scrum half but can deputise as a tackle shy fullback if required. Given the number of talented young academy wingers Edinburgh have you've got to wonder what they've got to do to get picked.

Weird, you wont need a big pack, our backrow is usually decent though.

Backs
Dan Evans, Hallam Amos, Will Harries, Matthew Pewtner, Tom Prydie, Jack Dixon, Pat Leach, Ross Wardle, Kris Burton, Steffan Jones, Jason Tovey, Jonathan Evans, Wayne Evans, Richie Rees.

Forwards
Owen Evans, Phil Price, Elliot Dee, Sam Parry, Duncan Bell, Nathan Buck, Bruce Douglas, Andrew Coombs, Cory Hill, Matthew Screech, Rob Sidoli, Lewis Evans, Jevon Groves, Nic Cudd, Darren Waters, Taulupe Faletau, Netani Talei.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:26 am

Any why play Matt Scott at 13? Just don't get it Headscratch

by munkian Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:31 am

So this is a slightly unbalanced side is it lads ?

by **BigGee** Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:42 am

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Any why play Matt Scott at 13? Just don't get it

12 may be his best position but Matt Scott can play both, just like Dunbar can. He made some good breaks against Treviso and looked very comfortable. Plenty of good centres can interchange quite easily and that versatility could be good for both him, Edinburgh and the national team.

At the end of the day you have to accept that De Luca is history now with Edinburgh. Solomans clearly is not playing most of the players that will be leaving over the summer and that is probably quite sensible, for the future development of the team. There are not really a lot of other options at the moment and who knows, he may end up being a better 13 than 12. Judge it on his performance, it looked ok last week, he was not the reason Edinburgh lost!

by EWT Spoons Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:56 am

Right this team selection from Solomans is pretty strange, there does seem to be something a bit SJ about it.

Some of the key things for me:

• Sam H-C, as already pointed out, is a 9, has played 10 and also 15, but really is a scrum half, so why is he on the wing ahead of an actual winger.
• Scott(12) at 13, again. He’s our best 12, and (currently) an average 13, why is he being played out of position!
• Leonard – Not really a strange decision to play him at 10, I just don’t rate him, but the cupboard is a bit bare here
• Du Preez – So it’s my understanding his preferred position is at 8, we’ve been playing him at 6 for most the season, and now he’s playing at 7. Has Roddy picked up an injury? Or are we giving him a rest? Either way it does seem we’ve gone down the SJ route of not playing an actual 7.

by **George Carlin** Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:58 am

munkian wrote:So this is a slightly unbalanced side is it lads ?

Tis indeed Munkian. The pack is good - potentially Edinburgh's best (depending on how you feel about Coman v Roddy Grant) but the backline has a few strange things. Strauss did not play well last game and you would think that it wasn't in Edinburgh's interests to play their best player (Matt Scott) out of position. Then again, with De Luca being Not Very Good At Rugby and young Dougie Fife's season ending prematurely, presumably Scott is more versatile than his Saffer colleague.

As has already been pointed out, to have a revolving door jessie like Sam H Clyne (usually a 9) on the wing instead of a couple of genuine blasters like Hoyland or Farndale who could just have been dropped into their specialist position is very, very weird. Will Harries should really target him.

by GLove39 Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:02 pm

Big pack is a good selection. If anyone saw the Dragons - Connacht game from the other week the Galway men absolutely mullered the dragons pack and scored their 4 tries from driving mauls. Maybe that's what Solomon's is hoping to replicate.

by **RDW** Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:06 pm

What I don't get is why bother with these changes in the backs? It is the same players that started and benched last week, just all shifted about.

Bezzy has shown himself to be a very good kicker, and although he has his weaknesses Cuthbert is still more of a winger than S-H-C, and has performed quite well on the wing recently.

Why not just keep the same backline and subs?

Agree with Glove though - he's obviously looking to pummel the Dragons up front.

by **RDW** Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:10 pm

Solomons said: “Sam [Hidalgo-Clyne] is scrum-half and that’s where I’d like to see him longer-term but he has the ability to play on the wing without a problem given his experience in the back three as a Scotland age-grade internationalist.

“His is an outstanding young talent and, even though he had just a cameo, he looked dangerous. He has great feet, pace, is brave and strong. It’s great to have him involved in the team.

“I think Mike [Coman] has really good leadership qualities. He adds great value to the team in that respect.

That said, this is as much a rotation of the loose forwards, as Roddy Grant has had an outstanding season for us.”

by EWT Spoons Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:12 pm

Probably worth pointing out that Hoyland doesn't sign for us until the summer. Unless something has changed since the announcement was made around his signing. Might explain why we're not playing him ahead of SHC on the wing.

by funnyExiledScot Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:14 pm

Hmmm, Du Preez at 7, Scott at 13 and H-C on the wing. Not impressed with this team selection at all.

Grant should be a 7, being a specialist openside, Scott should be at 12, being a specialist inside centre and H-C should either start at 9, or cover 9 from the bench, being a specialist scrum half.

As pointed out, none of these players being out of position is necessary. NDL and Beard can both play 13 (and he's picking VDW, who is leaving and where we have good cover in Atkins, so why not NDL?), and we have a crop of young wingers desperate for professional rugby (and from the clips I've seen of Hoyland, he should be given a chance sooner rather than later).

I just don't understand the obsession in Scottish rugby with playing people out of position. Can you imagine Quins playing Danny Care on the wing, Leicester switching Croft to openside flanker or Glaws plonking Billy Twelvetrees at 13, if they had other options?

by munkian Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:17 pm

George Carlin wrote:
munkian wrote:So this is a slightly unbalanced side is it lads ?
Tis indeed Munkian. The pack is good - potentially Edinburgh's best (depending on how you feel about Coman v Roddy Grant) but the backline has a few strange things. Strauss did not play well last game and you would think that it wasn't in Edinburgh's interests to play their best player (Matt Scott) out of position. Then again, with De Luca being Not Very Good At Rugby and young Dougie Fife's season ending prematurely, presumably Scott is more versatile than his Saffer colleague.

As has already been pointed out, to have a revolving door jessie like Sam H Clyne (usually a 9) on the wing instead of a couple of genuine blasters like Hoyland or Farndale who could just have been dropped into their specialist position is very, very weird. Will Harries should really target him.

So you are basically playing three '8's in the backrow ?

I'm guessing Wardle and Harries will be on the wings, if we can get any ball to them then I guess thats one advantage to us.

As to the Connacht game, we started with an awful front row and we didn't seem to want to be there. We perked up against the Zebre pack so you'll need more of a gameplan than 'their pack is keech'

Wish I could make the game but its a schoolnight and I live in Bristol.

by **RDW** Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:17 pm

munkian - why the hell is the game on a Thursday??

by tigertattie Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:20 pm

Is Johnson actually picking the edinburgh team?

by **RDW** Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:22 pm

Taking a step back from this, given where we are as a team and the squad available the strange selection calls aren't probably that big a deal.

The Dragons have obviously been pinpointed as having a weak pack (backrow aside) so Solomons has gone for the biggest, meanest pack possible. The backrow has no balance, but given the fairly limited gameplan we are playing just now we don't really need a 7 to get quick ball as that's not part of our tactics, rightly or wrongly. Du Preez and Denton are both rampaging beats and Coman is a good allround player.

The backs are strange, but Scott will do a job at 13 and given the pack selected, S-H-C is unlikely to see much ball on the wing!

by munkian Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:23 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:munkian - why the hell is the game on a Thursday??

I'm assuming its TV scheduling - awful isn't it ?

Hopefully the Rabbo games will get better times next year with SKY covering some of them etc

by **BigGee** Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:23 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Solomons said: “Sam [Hidalgo-Clyne] is scrum-half and that’s where I’d like to see him longer-term but he has the ability to play on the wing without a problem given his experience in the back three as a Scotland age-grade internationalist.

“His is an outstanding young talent and, even though he had just a cameo, he looked dangerous. He has great feet, pace, is brave and strong. It’s great to have him involved in the team.

“I think Mike [Coman] has really good leadership qualities. He adds great value to the team in that respect.

That said, this is as much a rotation of the loose forwards, as Roddy Grant has had an outstanding season for us.”

I agree with that, he did look quite handy when he came on, he has got pace and very good feet. If he had not have impressed then he would not be starting this week. What both him and Kennedy need is game time at this level and that is what will make them better players at whichever position they settle in, both need to play and play now.

Hoyland and Farndale are two years behind S H-C in development, neither have any professional game time worth talking about, their focus at the moment should be on the junior world cup in NZ this summer. Next year we will see if they can make the break through at this level, Hoyland I believe certainly can, Farndale seems to have stalled a bit, largely because of injury. Time will tell if that is just a blip or a promising career forestalled.

The pack looks good though and really should be steam rollering that Dragons team. Hopefully that means plenty of ball for the backs to show what they can do.

by munkian Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:28 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Taking a step back from this, given where we are as a team and the squad available the strange selection calls aren't probably that big a deal.

The Dragons have obviously been pinpointed as having a weak pack (backrow aside) so Solomons has gone for the biggest, meanest pack possible. The backrow has no balance, but given the fairly limited gameplan we are playing just now we don't really need a 7 to get quick ball as that's not part of our tactics, rightly or wrongly. Du Preez and Denton are both rampaging beats and Coman is a good allround player.

The backs are strange, but Scott will do a job at 13 and given the pack selected, S-H-C is unlikely to see much ball on the wing!

I'd be disappointed if we lost this (going by previous results) but not hugely surprised at the moment.

As poor as our pack can be, our backrow is very tidy - our 7 is proper 7 - low to the ground jackling type, Faletau is...Faletau and Evans is good but can give away penalties. Talei can be great or go missing

I'm more hopeful about our backs - Rees and Tovey play well together, our centres aren't flashy but very good in defence and our back 3 are very nippy and will run it from anywhere

by munkian Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:15 pm

Dragons team to face Edinburgh

Dan Evans, Tom Prydie, Pat Leach, Jack Dixon, Hallam Amos, Jason Mason, Richie Rees;
Dragons squad

Phil Price, Elliot Dee, Duncan Bell, Andrew Coombs (c), Matthew Screech, Lewis Evans, Nic Cudd, Taulupe Faletau.

Replacements

Sam Parry, Owen Evans, Bruce Douglas, Cory Hill, Jevon Groves, Wayne Evans, Ross Wardle, Will Harries.

by Tattie Scones RRN Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:27 pm

Munkian

I'm going to the match tomorrow - any suggestions on the best seats/standing etc?

by munkian Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:47 pm

North Terrace is standing - should only be about £13 a ticket. The Bisley (new) stand will be closer to £20 but has a better view and facilities

Unfortunately, because of the timing, I don't see it being too busy there

Are you coming over from Scotland ?

by Tattie Scones RRN Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:11 pm

No mate I work in Newport so a Thursday match is quite handy for me. At least there'll be 1 Edinburgh supporter cheering them on!

by **RDW** Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:12 pm

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:No mate I work in Newport so a Thursday match is quite handy for me. At least there'll be 1 Edinburgh supporter cheering them on!

I'm fully expecting you to be noisy enough for us to hear you on TV!

by munkian Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:18 pm

Can't hear you guys on TV when there are a couple of hundred of you Wink

Fair enough Tattie. If Weather isn't too bad I'd go North Terrace, save yourself a few quid

by Tattie Scones RRN Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:22 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Tattie Scones RRN wrote:No mate I work in Newport so a Thursday match is quite handy for me. At least there'll be 1 Edinburgh supporter cheering them on!

I'm fully expecting you to be noisy enough for us to hear you on TV!

I'll probably be the only one in the crowd like this picard

Cheers Munkian

by munkian Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:23 pm

Dim problem, hope its a good game

by CraigS1874 Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:29 pm

BigGee wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
Solomons said: “Sam [Hidalgo-Clyne] is scrum-half and that’s where I’d like to see him longer-term but he has the ability to play on the wing without a problem given his experience in the back three as a Scotland age-grade internationalist.

“His is an outstanding young talent and, even though he had just a cameo, he looked dangerous. He has great feet, pace, is brave and strong. It’s great to have him involved in the team.

“I think Mike [Coman] has really good leadership qualities. He adds great value to the team in that respect.

That said, this is as much a rotation of the loose forwards, as Roddy Grant has had an outstanding season for us.”

I agree with that, he did look quite handy when he came on, he has got pace and very good feet. If he had not have impressed then he would not be starting this week. What both him and Kennedy need is game time at this level and that is what will make them better players at whichever position they settle in, both need to play and play now.

Hoyland and Farndale are two years behind S H-C in development, neither have any professional game time worth talking about, their focus at the moment should be on the junior world cup in NZ this summer. Next year we will see if they can make the break through at this level, Hoyland I believe certainly can, Farndale seems to have stalled a bit, largely because of injury. Time will tell if that is just a blip or a promising career forestalled.

The pack looks good though and really should be steam rollering that Dragons team. Hopefully that means plenty of ball for the backs to show what they can do.

Yeah agree with all of that. Sam HC is a good all round rugby player and has only just started playing 9 and has the speed to play on the wing, I am afraid farndale has never really been a natural rugby player instead he's just an athlete and this injury has held him back. Can't wait to see hoyland get game time next year as he adds a bit of a spark.

Hopefully we get on the front foot and give the backs a platform to perform.

by funnyExiledScot Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:37 pm

CraigS1874 wrote:Yeah agree with all of that. Sam HC is a good all round rugby player and has only just started playing 9 and has the speed to play on the wing, I am afraid farndale has never really been a natural rugby player instead he's just an athlete and this injury has held him back. Can't wait to see hoyland get game time next year as he adds a bit of a spark.

Hopefully we get on the front foot and give the backs a platform to perform.

Plenty very good wingers out there aren't "rugby players" per se, just athletes. Edinburgh already have a prime example of that in Tim Visser, but there have been many others: Varndell, Ngwenya, N'Tamack, Lomu, Cuthbert, Robinson etc etc. Some great players but just don't ask them to pass or kick a rugby ball (Robinson had to be taught from scratch by Dave Alred). Just catch and run as fast and hard as possible.

Sides need a balance of skill and athleticism. Sadly for Scotland we've all too often had players with neither.

by **RDW** Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:41 pm

Agreed - Visser and Farndale aren't an ideal wing combination, but Farndale/Visser and Fife is far more balanced.

That's why a Scotland back 3 of Visser-Maitland-Hogg is so exciting going forward, you've got the finisher/athelete in Visser, the skillful pace man in Maitland and the all-rounder in Hogg. Just so happens Hogg is bloody quick too!

It is worrying if Farndale has lost his mojo since his leg break, but let's give him the under 20 world cup and a pre-season under his belt and see what happens.

Can we have Lee Jones back yet? picard

by funnyExiledScot Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:47 pm

With Farndale and Hoyland on the horizon, I'd personally put Jones in the Colin Gregor category and let him dedicate to 7's, providing interim back-up to Edinburgh as and when available. I think that makes the best use of his talents.

Still, I'd rather play Jones on the wing than H-C.

by **RDW** Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:48 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:With Farndale and Hoyland on the horizon, I'd personally put Jones in the Colin Gregor category and let him dedicate to 7's, providing interim back-up to Edinburgh as and when available. I think that makes the best use of his talents.

Still, I'd rather play Jones on the wing than H-C.

I was meaning back for the end of the season.

Come next season we should have no need for Jones really - he should be with the 7s,

by funnyExiledScot Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:54 pm

I must confess it would be the ultimate nightmare, seeing Lee Jones score a try in the 1872 second leg......for Glasgow.

Hopefully though, with world class wingers like McGuigan, and the speedster that is Sean Lamont, it won't come to that.

by **RDW** Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:56 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:I must confess it would be the ultimate nightmare, seeing Lee Jones score a try in the 1872 second leg......for Glasgow.

...on the back of a dominant scrum from Geoff Cross, with Sean Kennedy missing a crucial tackle...

The sad thing is there is a strong chance of that happening!

by Nematode Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:58 pm

Lee Jones. Edinburgh signed, loaned to Glasgow, called up by the sevens and now, potentially, required loaned back at Edinburgh.

laughing

by Nematode Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:58 pm

Glasgow Warriors ‏@GlasgowWarriors 55m
BREAKING: We'll play @EdinburghRugby in the second leg of the #1872Cup on Saturday 26 April at 7.05pm: http://bit.ly/1myMdKP

by MacKnocked-on Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:09 pm

Good move for Sean Cox to London Irish

by Guest Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:19 pm

The game being tomorrow is more to do with the fact that ERC won't let us clash with an Amlin game. There's no way we would schedule a Thursday game otherwise, TV or not (in my opinion). I'm massively disappointed that this game is on a Thursday, as it's another game off my season ticket (through no fault of my own this time). I suppose if I was quite necky, I could ask for the effective cost of this game back (£10), as I was able to make the first game. But I suppose I'll leave the £10 in the Dragons' funds so we can get on with signing a tidy prop.

Decent team for us. Was pretty worried (with the relatively short turnaround after the Zebre game), Lyn would look to make changes, so fair play. Hopefully we keep up our good record at home v Edinburgh, as there's a fair bit of negativity about the Dragons support at the moment (a lot of it unjustified too).

by Nematode Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:14 am

tigertattie wrote:Is Johnson actually picking the edinburgh team?

by **George Carlin** Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:02 am

Oof. Just read that the tram-goers have not won in Wales for almost five years or at Dave Parade since 2006.

by **RDW** Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:42 am

Have to say, as crap as it must be for home fans, I'm quite looking forward to watching rugby on the tv midweek after coming home from work!

by munkian Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:36 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Have to say, as crap as it must be for home fans, I'm quite looking forward to watching rugby on the tv midweek after coming home from work!

Yeah, its not TOO bad for me, Mrs it out at some fitness class, some nice beers and hopefully a decent match on a week night is a novelty

by Chunky Norwich Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:26 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Have to say, as crap as it must be for home fans, I'm quite looking forward to watching rugby on the tv midweek after coming home from work!

The kick off time for this is so pathetic that I will even struggle to get home from work and watch it on tv.

Joke League.

by **RDW** Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:31 pm

I can understand it being moved to a Thursday due to Euro cup games, but why so early? Is the stand in a residential area or something and they don't want neighbours complaining about mid week noise?

by Chunky Norwich Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:32 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I can understand it being moved to a Thursday due to Euro cup games, but why so early? Is the stand in a residential area or something and they don't want neighbours complaining about mid week noise?

It's so the tv audience for today's Amlin Cup game isn't affected.

Yes I know. Ridiculous. God bless Dublin.

by funnyExiledScot Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:34 pm

Only just realised that it's a 6:30pm kick-off - that's pretty punchy!

I suspect the Edinburgh players just wanted to get the inevitable over and done with!

by **RDW** Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:40 pm

Looks like I'll be missing the game too - my parents are being incredibly selfish and selling the family home so they can live without a mortgage in a house that is far easier and cheaper to live in and maintain. Do they not know that I have a fondness for the tree in the back garden I climbed as a kid and the fact that I want somewhere to leave my school blazer and camping gear that is never used??

As such I'm going along to help with the viewings!

by funnyExiledScot Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:45 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Looks like I'll be missing the game too - my parents are being incredibly selfish and selling the family home so they can live without a mortgage in a house that is far easier and cheaper to live in and maintain. Do they not know that I have a fondness for the tree in the back garden I climbed as a kid and the fact that I want somewhere to leave my school blazer and camping gear that is never used??

As such I'm going along to help with the viewings!

Nightmare. My parents selfishly moved to Orkney. Really handy!

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