Lennox Lewis - Boxing's greatest wind up merchant !!

The quite, soft spoken and gentlemanly Brit was the Napoleon of wummery.......Forget the transparent antics of Ali and Hoppo types....The intelligent Brit knew how to get under the skin of his opponents better than any fighter I've ever seen !!!.....

Bowe - Spoilt the party after Bowe's brilliant win over Holy......By casually remarking "You know I'm going to knock you out" about fifty times as Bowe tried to walk by.....Bowe seemed genuinely riled and rightly so as his monumental effort had just been dismissed........

Holy - Holy didn't mind people damning his talent and record.......But you don't go near his religion......So why doesn't Lewis go near his religion and suggest all the marital affairs make him look a great christian.........Holy commented later that out of all his opponents he wanted to smash up Lewis the most.....

Rahman - A nice quiet press conference promoting the rematch ends up on the floor as the quietly spoken Brit... cool as usual gets under Rahman's skin........

Bruno - We all know Bruno was sensitive about the Uncle Tom mutterings..........So why not call him an Uncle Tom and liven a press conference up by getting served a writ..........

Tyson - Just by being on the stage with Tyson seem to make Tyson lose the plot and a press conference ended up with a melee and ankles being bitten..

Vitali - Poor old Vitali was kept guessing whether Lewis would or wouldn't........Not that Lewis was ever going to..But why not mess with his head..

Lewis is a good chess player apparently and I can believe it.........

Like the other Brit James Bond........Nobody did it better !!

Lewis was a Tinkywinky after his win over Vitali, respect the fighter but not the man. Took him years before he gave Vitali any credit for that fight.

There was a reason Lewis didnt give him a rematch and thats because he would of lost.

If that was true Adam he would have fought somebody else but at the age of 38 he knew the time was right to retire.

If he had of fought someone else he would of been accused of ducking. Your probably right mate. He probably noticed he wasn't the same fighter and was only fighting for money.

Plus he f**ked Vitali up with cuts that required over 50 stiches. No point going over previous ground.

Ali and Hopkins are probably the greatest exponents of psychological warfare in boxing history.

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Plus he f**ked Vitali up with cuts that required over 50 stiches. No point going over previous ground.

He won the fight, no doubt. I said he wouldn't win a rematch. Lewis only liked rematches when he was knocked out. Anyway everyones entitled to there opinion mate. Just think he wouldn't of retired if he didn't get that scare from Vitali.

Vitali victory has become Lewis best win........

A guy that has remained unbeaten all these years beaten by a close-to-middle age fighter...

Lewis reign mirrored Louis reign to a certain extent prior to Vitali...........Good fighters beaten but all sloppy seconds at the time...

Ruddock lost twice to Tyson..
Holy lost twice to Bowe
Tyson lost twice to Holy..

With some decent other sorts chucked on his resume like Tua...

Bowe would have been his defining fight cementing a top 5/10 place and that wasn't his fault.

I agree with Vitali being his best win. I'm not putting down Lennox skills as a boxer. He was past his best when he took on Vitali and he probably underestimated him. Still didn't believe he could beat him in a rematch (which Vitali earned). He should of had one more fight with Vitali, imo win, lose or draw I would hold him in higher regard.

If Mayweather had an identical win over someone and retired, he would be called a coward on here.

AdamT wrote:

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Plus he f**ked Vitali up with cuts that required over 50 stiches. No point going over previous ground.

He won the fight, no doubt. I said he wouldn't win a rematch. Lewis only liked rematches when he was knocked out. Anyway everyones entitled to there opinion mate. Just think he wouldn't of retired if he didn't get that scare from Vitali.

Overweight out of condition Lewis beat Vitali up like this



I would like to see how he would have coped with a more conditioned version.

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:

AdamT wrote:

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Plus he f**ked Vitali up with cuts that required over 50 stiches. No point going over previous ground.

He won the fight, no doubt. I said he wouldn't win a rematch. Lewis only liked rematches when he was knocked out. Anyway everyones entitled to there opinion mate. Just think he wouldn't of retired if he didn't get that scare from Vitali.

Overweight out of condition Lewis beat Vitali up like this



I would like to see how he would have coped with a more conditioned version.

How many weeks notice did Vitali have for the fight??

AdamT wrote:

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:

AdamT wrote:

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Plus he f**ked Vitali up with cuts that required over 50 stiches. No point going over previous ground.

He won the fight, no doubt. I said he wouldn't win a rematch. Lewis only liked rematches when he was knocked out. Anyway everyones entitled to there opinion mate. Just think he wouldn't of retired if he didn't get that scare from Vitali.

Overweight out of condition Lewis beat Vitali up like this



I would like to see how he would have coped with a more conditioned version.

How many weeks notice did Vitali have for the fight??

I agree with the conditioned bit. Lewis should of rematched him and proved that Vitali was lucky to be in that fight then. I have a feeling he and his trainers knew his days were numbered. Vitali would of won the rematch.

AdamT wrote:

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:

AdamT wrote:

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Plus he f**ked Vitali up with cuts that required over 50 stiches. No point going over previous ground.

He won the fight, no doubt. I said he wouldn't win a rematch. Lewis only liked rematches when he was knocked out. Anyway everyones entitled to there opinion mate. Just think he wouldn't of retired if he didn't get that scare from Vitali.

Overweight out of condition Lewis beat Vitali up like this



I would like to see how he would have coped with a more conditioned version.

How many weeks notice did Vitali have for the fight??

How many weeks notice did Lewis have for the fight??

Being a bit harsh on Vitali..............His face was badly swollen but so was Taylor's against Chavez....

I had Taylor 8 rounds up.............

It wasn't a beating regardless of Vitali's face.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Being a bit harsh on Vitali..............His face was badly swollen but so was Taylor's against Chavez....

I had Taylor 8 rounds up.............

It wasn't a beating regardless of Vitali's face.

You don't half chat some codswallop sometimes. Vitali was up 58-56, doesn't change the the fact that he received a beating, like Meldrick did.

Because Minter had three cuts against Hagler he took a beating !!.....

Some faces swell easier than others...

Beating - A punishment in which the victim is hit mercilessly..A drubbing,thrashing, hammering, pummelling..

Did you say Vitali was winning..Soldier ??

He would have really messed Bowe up....if that pesky bin hadn't have been calling for Bowe to put his belt in it.

Lewis had been slated to face Kirk Johnson. Klitschko was due to fight Cedric Boswell on the undercard. When Johnson pulled out, Klitschko stepped in (Tyson was also supposed to appear in order to stimulate interest in a Lewis rematch).

Lewis looked a shot fighter with no bounce or rhythm. Klitschko was ungainly but tough and urgent. After a rocky start, Lewis had started to take command, however, he looked exhausted while Klitschko's face was a mess.

It's difficult to predict what would have unfolded but Lewis at his best would have stopped him (in my view).

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:He would have really messed Bowe up....if that pesky bin hadn't have been calling for Bowe to put his belt in it.

No he wouldn't pre-Steward for me...........Big mistake not taking Lewis on back then but Holy was more lucrative..

Post Steward I'd favor Lewis........

hazharrison wrote:Ali and Hopkins are probably the greatest exponents of psychological warfare in boxing history.

Agree.....Something more subtle about a well mannered Brit being King of gamesmanship though.....

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Beating - A punishment in which the victim is hit mercilessly..A drubbing,thrashing, hammering, pummelling..

Did you say Vitali was winning..Soldier ??

Yes I did Trussman.

Beating: the act of a person or thing that beat(s), as to punish, clean, mix, etc.: Give the rug a good beating.
Beat: to strike violently or forcefully and repeatedly

My definition came from the good old English Dictionary. No mention of drubbing, thrashing, hammering, pummelling like the Trussman dictionary.

So did Vitali receive a beating? Was striked repeatedly violently and forcefully? Have you seen the picture above?

Do one Truss   

Why was Vitali ahead..I imagine Lewis took a beating too...

Or does your opponent score points when you smack them in the head..

No what else annoys me. Lot of Uk fans give Lewis big props for how he handled the shadow of Tyson.

Please, it would be similar to Lewis coming out of retirement and Wlad knocking his head of. Granted Tyson was much younger but he was also good few years past his sell by date.

AdamT wrote:No what else annoys me. Lot of Uk fans give Lewis big props for how he handled the shadow of Tyson.

Please, it would be similar to Lewis coming out of retirement and Wlad knocking his head of. Granted Tyson was much younger but he was also good few years past his sell by date.

Well to flip that on its head, Lewis wasn't in his prime either, both guys were nearing the end so just because Tyson wasn't as good as Lewis at that point should not be criticised against Lewis.

The main point about that fight isn't that Lewis should or should not be given credit.

Even if the fight had of happened 5 years before it did, people would still say Tyson was shot.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Why was Vitali ahead..I imagine Lewis took a beating too...

Or does your opponent score points when you smack them in the head..

He was winning the fight on the cards, but Lewis's punches where having more of an effect. Vitali was not used to getting hit as clean as Lewis was (only Sanders was able to tag him with big shots since). It was a big step up and it was a commendable performance. Still don't know how he was still standing after that uppercut

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Because Minter had three cuts against Hagler he took a beating !!.....

Some faces swell easier than others...

That is true Truss, Michael Katsidis's face looked like it had took a beating just from the ring walk!!

Exactly Tommy....

Tyson was completely shot against Lewis..No comparison..

Tyson even said himself he knew he wouldn't be able to beat Lewis..

Lewis's latest wind-ups involved discussion re a fight with Vitali.

When asked if he was interested, Lewis stated that he was (for the right money of course) and that he was keeping in shape by running around Hyde Park. When asked what his fighting weight was, he replied, "under 300lbs"

This sparked the "Lewis to come out of retirement to fight Vitali" stories not so long ago.

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:

AdamT wrote:

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:

AdamT wrote:

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Plus he f**ked Vitali up with cuts that required over 50 stiches. No point going over previous ground.

He won the fight, no doubt. I said he wouldn't win a rematch. Lewis only liked rematches when he was knocked out. Anyway everyones entitled to there opinion mate. Just think he wouldn't of retired if he didn't get that scare from Vitali.

Overweight out of condition Lewis beat Vitali up like this



I would like to see how he would have coped with a more conditioned version.

How many weeks notice did Vitali have for the fight??

How many weeks notice did Lewis have for the fight??

I think this is a good point in the vitali / Lewis discussion. Vitali was training his whole professional career for a shot at Lewis. A fat disinterested Lewis took the fight with the unknown Ukrainian on 2 weeks notice.

What did Lewis do different against Vitali than usual..

Lewis always fought the same way

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:What did Lewis do different against Vitali than usual..

Lewis always fought the same way

That's not how I remember it.

He pretty much stood there and swung from the hip, they both did. It was probably out of necessity as he was knackered after the second round but it was hardly a typical Lewis performance.

Even the fights where he blew guys away (Grant/Golota/Ruddock/Botha) he was pretty clinical and controlled. He was anything but controlled against Vitali.

Wasn't clinical against Mercer ..........

Lewis jab did the damage against vitali.........He had a good jab when the spirit moved him...But he was always a stand up fighter..

Vitali was taller and better than the useless Grant .... Not as easy for Lewis to control.........

But we all see different things..........I think Hugh Jackman is a great actor !!  

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I think Hugh Jackman is a great actor !!  

You draw me back, loverboy, and then you go and ruin it.

Lewis wasn't allowed to be controlled -- Vitali bugged him like a Barcelona pickpocket. Mercer did the same, as did the unheralded Mavrovic, who kept pecking away and had Lewis gasping for air.

hazharrison wrote:Lewis wasn't allowed to be controlled -- Vitali bugged him like a Barcelona pickpocket. Mercer did the same, as did the unheralded Mavrovic, who kept pecking away and had Lewis gasping for air.

I agree...Lewis could be clinical and controlling like Tino alludes too........One of the best bullies in the game ..Bullied Tyson beautifully when he knew it was safe!!

However he was always safety first when he didn't feel comfortable....Vitali, Mercer, Holy exposed that.....Though he did come out on top contentiously with the first two..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Wasn't clinical against Mercer ..........

Lewis jab did the damage against vitali.........He had a good jab when the spirit moved him...But he was always a stand up fighter..

Vitali was taller and better than the useless Grant .... Not as easy for Lewis to control.........

But we all see different things..........I think Hugh Jackman is a great actor !!  

Yer cos the barometer to measure Lewis's career is the Mercer fight.

If the fight wasn't stopped in the 6th, whose to say the Vitali wouldn't have quit with the injury he sustained. Not like he hadn't quit before with an injury.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:Lewis wasn't allowed to be controlled -- Vitali bugged him like a Barcelona pickpocket. Mercer did the same, as did the unheralded Mavrovic, who kept pecking away and had Lewis gasping for air.

I agree...Lewis could be clinical and controlling like Tino alludes too........One of the best bullies in the game ..Bullied Tyson beautifully when he knew it was safe!!

However he was always safety first when he didn't feel comfortable....Vitali, Mercer, Holy exposed that.....Though he did come out on top contentiously with the first two..

Now your sayin the Vitali victory is contentious

Have you seen the picture above?!

It was contentious he was on top against Vitali....

I had Vitali leading like but that up to you.

How can it be contentious when Vitali needed over 50 stiches to his face.

So If Taylor had gone on against Chavez with two seconds left and the bell had rung...

Taylor though he was miles ahead shouldn't have won because he had a busted face !!

You're stupid..

Hagler was all busted up against Hearns..........Reckon Hearns should have won !!   

I always felt that Lewis never gave anybody any credit, particularly when he lost or was given a good fight.

Can't think of a bigger WUM than Jack Johnson.

Anyone who thinks Vitali would have won his fight with Lewis had the fight been allowed to go on must have watched a different fight to the one I saw. Granted Vitali was probably ahead but from the sixth round onwards there was only one for him and that was down,most likely counted out as I doubt he would have seen the final belt. At 38 Lewis realised he was coming to the end of his carreer and wisely called it a day.

rapidringsroad wrote:  Anyone who thinks Vitali would have won his fight with Lewis had the fight been allowed to go on must have watched a different fight to the one I saw. Granted Vitali was probably ahead but from the sixth round onwards there was only one for him and that was down,most likely counted out as I doubt he would have seen the final belt. At 38 Lewis realised he was coming to the end of his carreer and wisely called it a day.

It's all a matter of opinion, of course. Lewis was coming on strong, but for me, was only evening things up a bit.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:So If Taylor had gone on against Chavez with two seconds left and the bell had rung...

Taylor though he was miles ahead shouldn't have won because he had a busted face !!

You're stupid..

Hagler was all busted up against Hearns..........Reckon Hearns should have won !!   

Nope, just making a point that you can be winning the fight on the cards and still receive a beating.

Like Vitali

I'm making the point that If you have a sensitive face like Davila,Vito,Mancini,Minter and Vitali..

Your point is bollox..

Always a bit of a sensitive and touchy subject for the Lewis fanatics, the Vitali fight.

You'll have to forgive me for nicking someone else's wording here, but my view on the fight is similar to how the captain summed it up once - arguably Lewis' best result if you look purely at wins / losses, but due to his actual performance and the circumstances of how he achieved the result, you can't really call it his best or greatest victory, or one of the really high points of his career either.

Seems to me like most believe you have to be either all or nothing in taking sides - either Lewis dominated Vitali and beat him to a pulp, or Lewis getting the win was down to nothing other than luck and he deserves no real credit for it. As usual, I'm somewhere in between all of that. Lewis got the job done, and by using the correct and proper criteria, he won the fight.

That said, when people more or less say, "Vitali got his ass kicked" or whatnot, or claim that there was no rematch needed because it'd be going over old ground, I find it pretty amazing personally. It's almost as if some think that losing most of those six rounds was part of Lewis' plan and no cause for concern because he'd always planned to cut Vitali's face up and win the fight by that method anyway! Lewis didn't dominate Vitali however much people try to spin it, in my eyes anyway.

Given that Lewis had been inactive and clearly was suffering with waning motivation, as well as being pretty long in the tooth by then, I give him a pass when it comes to him retiring and not granting Vitali a rematch, but that's the only reason why I do. It was a legitimate win for him, but that doesn't mean there wasn't an element of luck involved and had it taken place a few years earlier then I don't think there'd have been any way he could have swerved a return bout.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I'm making the point that If you have a sensitive face.........

 
  leave it out Truss. Is that what they tell the ref?
 
'Dont stop it ref, my face is sensitive to full force punches.'