Scmidt to Decide Henshaws future

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Interesting article in the Irish Examiner this morning. According to the President its up to Joe to decide if Henshaw should move from Connacht for the benefit of the Irish team. Dont know how people feel about this level of control. I understand the thinking behind it but regardless that Henshaw has signed until 2016 for Connacht if Joe says he has to move then he has to move...

Here is the article http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/irfu-say-henshaws-club-future-up-to-schmidt-264940.html

Thoughts?

We'd all like to see Henshaw stay at Connacht. But he may be Ireland's first choice 13 in the future. Playing in Europe's top tier would benefit his development. And Connacht won't be in it. So it makes sense from an Ireland perspective for him to go to Leinster. Also if Schmidt decides Payne is to be his new 13, it also makes sense from an Ireland perspective for Cave and Payne to be with different teams and both 1st choice.

But Schmidt should be very careful, because even though the test team is top priority for him and the IRFU, the provinces are very important to fans, and the won't like this sort of thing. I'd leave it to the player to decide where he wants to play. But every Connacht player must know he has less chance of playing for Ireland.

Connacht can qualify for Europe - and thats what they should be aiming for. Very few players will move some place they don't want to go and rightly so. If the IRFU start forcing players to play elsewhere, the next step is for the players to say to hell with this, I'm going to Toulon or toulouse and there are a couple of players like SOB & Murray whose services won't be dispensed with.

Feckless Rogue wrote:Also if Schmidt decides Payne is to be his new 13, it also makes sense from an Ireland perspective for Cave and Payne to be with different teams and both 1st choice.

And from a Leinster perspective too, eh? If we'd got one of your bright prospects to nurture at fullback we might not have needed to sign Payne in the first place! When Ulster needed to bring in a 15 Leinster had Nacewa, both Kearney brothers, Fitzgerald and Conway... when we signed Johann Muller, Munster had O'Connell and O'Callaghan keeping Donnacha Ryan out of the team. There was no rush to spread the talent around then.

It's a very dangerous road the IRFU are considering going down in terms of alienating large chunks of the fan base that makes the national team profitable and the whole wheel turning. They have to show that if players are moved from province to province, it will be done in an even handed manner that will not advantage one province over the other. If Payne leaves Ulster for another Irish province when he has two years to run on his contract, I expect the IRFU to replace him at Ulster with a player of equal or greater talent. For instance, Leinster might gain an international centre and lose an international fullback. I'd no sooner see Rob Kearney in a white shirt than see Payne in a blue one, but it would be a fair enough trade. Kearney is no less important to Leinster than Payne is for Ulster. Anything less than that and I'd feel very hard done by indeed.

It should be the same for Henshaw too. If he goes east, there must be some quality players going west in exchange. Someone like Leo Cullen may be at the end of his career but his experience and nous would be useful if the rumours of Craig Clarke having to retire are true. Dave Kearney would add some defensive grit and solidity to that back three and slot in very well to the fullback role Henshaw would be vacating. I'm sure there are others.

The problem is if players don't want to leave Leinster for Ulster or Connacht in exchange then the whole idea of moving these players begins to look very unfair indeed. As I say, the IRFU is on thin ice.

Ah yeah, but its hardly like he's being asked to go play his rugby in Minsk. Dublin is a two and a half hour drive away. Sometimes you have to relocate for your job, it ain't fun but sure that's life.

From a development standpoint, it absolutely makes sense for Henshaw to move.

I would be extremely surprised if Schmidt asked Payne to move.

kunu wrote:Ah yeah, but its hardly like he's being asked to go play his rugby in Minsk. Dublin is a two and a half hour drive away. Sometimes you have to relocate for your job, it ain't fun but sure that's life.

From a development standpoint, it absolutely makes sense for Henshaw to move.

I would be extremely surprised if Schmidt asked Payne to move.

Then surely the IRFU need to make it clear whether, or not, they view Connacht as a development side? I want nothing more than to see Connacht increase in strength, and challenge for Euro spots, along with the top three sides, and it must be incredibly tough for them having their top players cherry picked for other teams. If the IRFU view them as more than a development side then they must give them more support, and encourage players to stay on.
If Henshaw wants to move that's fair enough, but my understanding is that he doesn't.

Yeah to be honest, I've no idea what Henshaw thinks himself, but obviously I'm not in favour of dragging him from Connacht kicking and screaming.

All in all, I don't think we have the player base in Ireland to field 4 top quality sides - merely 4 decent sides. I agree, and I don't think it's fair that Connachet keep losing their home grown talent.

But, given the circumstances, and immediate requirement to replace BOD, a move is justifiable. Leinster have among the top 3 training headquarters in Europe, maybe even the best. They are also guaranteed to qualify for the euro cup.

Henshaw has got to get high intensity exposure and the best development training possible.

Ireland will never have 4 top quality sides if Connacht continue to be treated as a development side though, but I'm not talking about Connacht being a top European side at the moment, just becoming strong enough to take one of the 7 spots. With a good defence coach they wouldn't be far off that.
I appreciate your argument about training facilities, but then Connacht are never going to have a top training facility unless are successful, and they will never be successful unless they can hold on to their players.
I also appreciate the fact that Leinster have to fill a BOD shaped gap now, but the needs of one Province shouldn't weaken any of the other. If Leinster haven't developed a player through the academy, then maybe they should have considered looking outside of Ireland once that need became apparent.

Anyway, maybe Henshaw will eventually decide that a move is best for his career....

....Ulster have great brand new training facilities now ......    ......... 

Notch wrote:It should be the same for Henshaw too. If he goes east, there must be some quality players going west in exchange. Someone like Leo Cullen may be at the end of his career but his experience and nous would be useful if the rumours of Craig Clarke having to retire are true. Dave Kearney would add some defensive grit and solidity to that back three and slot in very well to the fullback role Henshaw would be vacating. I'm sure there are others.

The problem is if players don't want to leave Leinster for Ulster or Connacht in exchange then the whole idea of moving these players begins to look very unfair indeed. As I say, the IRFU is on thin ice.

Leo Cullen is retiring this year and will be Leinster's new Forwards Coach next season.

You're quite right, I had forgotten all about that

I am totally against the IRFU dictating where a player should play his rugby. There is no reason why Henshaw can't play for Ireland and still play at Connacht. The French and English don't make it a stipulation that national selection is dependent on HEC experience - why should Ireland?

The English and French don't quite have the same problem at 13 at the moment, and they have a lot more players to choose from. Furthermore, we don't have to validate our decisions through them.

Somebody on 606 recently made a great point regarding Wilkinson. Apparently half his injury problems could have been solved had he played for a club better medically equipped than Newcastle. The potential benefit to Henshaw's carreer is undeniable.

I agree that it's a dodgy stance to take, but I also think its basically necessary given the unique situation Irish rugby is in. The retirement of one of the greatest rugby players ever was always going to leave a hell of a gap to fill.

Connacht also just bought Chiefs centre Bundee Aki, perhaps they know Henshaw is on the way out - or they're getting funding to build a competitive outfit

Based on Friday night Henshaw needs to leave Connacht if he has international aspirations.

I think he showed glimpses of class in a beaten team, most notably the assist for McSharry's try but he needs to be in a better side with better players if he wants to succeed BOD. The way Connacht are going won't help his confidence or skills.

Irish Times:

Pat Lam insists Robbie Henshaw is going nowhere


Connacht coach pat Lam has insisted Robbie Henshaw is not leaving the province despite the arrival of former Chiefs centre Bundee Aki from New Zealand.
The 24-year-old, Lam says, is merely a replacement for Eoin Griffin, who is going to London Irish, and the retiring Kyle Tonetti. Henshaw, he added, is staying to see out his contract until 2016.
“Obviously we had to look at signing a midfielder when we knew we’d be without Griffin and Tonetti next year,” said Lam today. “We also anticipate that Robbie (Henshaw) will be away in camp during the international windows and we have to make sure we are covered in that area.
“There has been a lot of talk in the last week about the possibility of Robbie leaving Connacht for another Irish province. Robbie signed a new deal this season that says he will be playing at the Sportsground until 2016 at least. He showed that he is happy here playing with his home province. There are no plans for him to move before then.
“The IRFU have been very supportive of Connacht and what we are trying to achieve here. I have a very good relationship with Joe (Schmidt) and there are good lines of communication between us. We talk regularly on games and players and he is especially supportive of the Connacht rugby programme going forward.
“We look forward to confirming some more player signings in the coming weeks for the 2014/15 season.”

rodders wrote:Based on Friday night Henshaw needs to leave Connacht if he has international aspirations.

I think he showed glimpses of class in a beaten team, most notably the assist for McSharry's try but he needs to be in a better side with better players if he wants to succeed BOD. The way Connacht are going won't help his confidence or skills.

For Irish rugby as a whole it would be better if Henshaw stayed where he is. Connacht are improving all the time and they showed their ambition this week by signing Aki.


For Henshaw maybe there would be a slight advantage by moving but it would only be slight IMO. The Pro 12 is a good league in itself and for a large part of the year he'll be away in the Ireland squad and playing international rugby.

Connacht showed ambition last season with signing Clarke but it didn't manifest on the field. I'm supportive of Connacht and if they can get a regular European spot then it will be different but right now no player with genuine international aspirations should be playing there.

McCarthy, Cronin and Keatley have improved out of sight since leaving and Henshaw will too. Connacht don't have the pack or quality inside to give him a platform to show his skills. He barely touched the ball against Ulster.

Paul Marshall took Marmion to school as well, in part because his pack gave him an armchair ride.

Playing for Connacht is a good learning curve but its not the best stepping stone to International rugby, players need to learn how to win as well as to lose.

The wider issue would be what impact it would have on the fan base and growing rugby in Connacht, if the IRFU cherry pick the best talent from them it could turn of some of the more casual fans and sends the wrong message in terms of the hope of becoming a force in the future

But sure its the same every season . That's why McCarthy went to Leinster.

Pat Lamb is a shoite coach, mind you so is O'Connor but it's  about what's best for the player not about keeping supporters happy. Players come and go.

Henshaw is at a crossroads. He's either going to become a top player of isn't but he won't go far running around chasing high balls for Connacht, If he is happy at Connacht then he should stay but if he has higher aspirations then he needs to move on.

rodders wrote:
Henshaw is at a crossroads. He's either going to become a top player of isn't but he won't go far running around chasing high balls for Connacht, If he is happy at Connacht then he should stay but if he has higher aspirations then he needs to move on.  

I don't agree with that at all. If a player has the talent and getting good coaching, thats the main thing. Look at Isreal Folau. He went from AFL to one of the best backs in the world within a short period of time. Ulster were a mid table side of years in the celtic league. I didn't hear anyone say their players had to move to better teams.


And the irony is theres so much talk about Henshaw lately because of the way he is playing, which is very good rugby.

rodders wrote:But sure its the same every season . That's why McCarthy went to Leinster.

Pat Lamb is a shoite coach, mind you so is O'Connor but it's  about what's best for the player not about keeping supporters happy. Players come and go.

Henshaw is at a crossroads. He's either going to become a top player of isn't but he won't go far running around chasing high balls for Connacht, If he is happy at Connacht then he should stay but if he has higher aspirations then he needs to move on.  

rodders McCarthys contract with Leinster was up, in Henshaws case it would be Schmidt/IRFU saying your not playing at a high enough level, Leinster need a 13 over you go there is a difference.

It tells Connacht they are and will be for the foreseeable future a 2nd grade team that can't be very motivating for those left behind unless they want to move and the coaches who are training the players in the academy

marty2086 wrote:It tells Connacht they are and will be for the foreseeable future a 2nd grade team that can't be very motivating for those left behind unless they want to move and the coaches who are training the players in the academy

Yes but its the truth. Its motivating for the players who have found there level there like Carr and Muldoon. For those who have higher aspirations than tier 2 European rugby and the odd big win they need to move on if they have short term international and European cup aspirations.

Gerry was just on the radio. He said that Phillip Browne said today that Henshaw would not be moved from Connacht. So that should be an end to the speculation.

Nah it's Payne that's moving now............

Only if we get Hogg

Henshaw  &  Payne need to play at the highest club level possible  to even have a chance at an Irish spot. And then some.

Leinster beckons for both methinks.

Yeah that's a good one alright.  They should move to the only Irish team that don't deserve deserve to be in the HC semi, and not for the first time. They both are better staying where they are instead of winning the second division titles...Leinster are where they deserve to be..pretty but ineffectual rugby

Far too easy Declan. Yer dropping your guard lad.

I'm against it. Big time.

Connacht's academy players should be ring-fenced as far as I'm concerned.

We need Connacht to succeed Munster as token culchies. Spread the provincial love I say.   

Yep you could consider ulster unlucky, Leinster top of the league and Munster still fighting on two fronts. The irfu are spoilt in fairness. I see no reason (performance wise) to move Henshaw.