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The world best current all rounder?

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Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler
LivinginItaly
ShankyCricket
MR. scotland27
eirebilly
gboycottnut
KO-KING
Gregers
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Worlds best all rounder?

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Post by Liam_Main Sun 22 May 2011 - 15:27

Who would you say is the current best all rounder in the world at the moment? This is based on all formats. Mine would be Daniel Vettori leads his side well in both departments is one of the best spin-bowlers in the world and with a average of 30 and 6 centuries is also a very capable batsman aswell.


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Post by GG Sun 22 May 2011 - 19:07

Is this in test matches/ Odi's or combined?

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Post by Liam_Main Sun 22 May 2011 - 19:12

Combined.
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Post by Liam_Main Sun 22 May 2011 - 19:12

Who got your pick GG?
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Post by GG Sun 22 May 2011 - 19:16

I went for Shane Watson - devastating limited overs batsman, good opener in tests and got a good test bowling average.

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Post by Liam_Main Sun 22 May 2011 - 19:23

I was considering him but I don't think he hasn't got the all-round game which matches up too Vettori,Matthews etc.
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Post by GG Sun 22 May 2011 - 20:18

we'll have to agree to disagree on this one thumbsup

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Post by Guest Sun 22 May 2011 - 22:05

shane watson

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Post by hodge Sun 22 May 2011 - 22:44

Went for Kallis, Watson's bowling has slipped i feel over the last few years

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Post by Adam D Mon 23 May 2011 - 9:45

Cant believe that Shane Warne isnt on there - he was an excellent batsman!

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Post by Adam D Mon 23 May 2011 - 9:45

I would also put Collingwood on there to be honest

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Post by steveo1986 Mon 23 May 2011 - 11:02

has to be jaques kallis the man is phenomenal

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Post by Liam_Main Mon 23 May 2011 - 15:36

Hobo wrote:Cant believe that Shane Warne isnt on there - he was an excellent batsman!


He wasn't much of a all-rounder though Hobo. Plus he's retiring from cricket soon so there wouldn't be much point in putting him in.
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Post by Liam_Main Mon 23 May 2011 - 15:38

Hobo wrote:I would also put Collingwood on there to be honest

His forms dipped alot recently he's nowhere near as good as he once was otherwise I would of.
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Post by Liam_Main Mon 23 May 2011 - 15:40

steveo1986 wrote:has to be jaques kallis the man is phenomenal

He was a close second for me. I just think his bowlings dipped slightly recently.
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Post by steveo1986 Mon 23 May 2011 - 16:15

Liam_Main wrote:
steveo1986 wrote:has to be jaques kallis the man is phenomenal

He was a close second for me. I just think his bowlings dipped slightly recently.

You have a point about his bowling but just his stats over the years and his general consistency for me makes him the best. He's also made nearly 40 test match hundreds which is amazing. He has more hundreds than Ricky Ponting who many consider the 2nd best batsmen of the last 15 years.

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Post by Liam_Main Mon 23 May 2011 - 16:18

steveo1986 wrote:
Liam_Main wrote:
steveo1986 wrote:has to be jaques kallis the man is phenomenal

He was a close second for me. I just think his bowlings dipped slightly recently.

You have a point about his bowling but just his stats over the years and his general consistency for me makes him the best. He's also made nearly 40 test match hundreds which is amazing. He has more hundreds than Ricky Ponting who many consider the 2nd best batsmen of the last 15 years.

If this was best batsman I would totally agree he would certainly be up there.

Age may be a big factor with Kallis he's starting to get on now so his pace will start to drop and he'll likely bowl less and less as it goes on. At his best Kallis was a excellent bowler though.
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Post by JDizzle Mon 23 May 2011 - 18:13

Shocked I was the first one to vote for Angelo Mathews! Probably doesn't have the stats of a Kallis or a Watson, but he just has the potential to turn games with either his batting or his bowling and in my eyes is the best ODI all rounder in world and hopefully he will develop into a test class one to.

Special shout to Shakib aswell. Leads a Bangladesh side and is one of their best batsmen, bar Tamim, and best bowler so huge props to him!

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Post by Liam_Main Mon 23 May 2011 - 19:55

JDizzle wrote:Shocked I was the first one to vote for Angelo Mathews! Probably doesn't have the stats of a Kallis or a Watson, but he just has the potential to turn games with either his batting or his bowling and in my eyes is the best ODI all rounder in world and hopefully he will develop into a test class one to.

Special shout to Shakib aswell. Leads a Bangladesh side and is one of their best batsmen, bar Tamim, and best bowler so huge props to him!

Am surprised that no ones voted for aswell. He leads a poor side well and is probably one of there best batters and best bowlers. Deserves a bit more credit than he gets.
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Post by Adam D Mon 23 May 2011 - 20:14

when I said Warne and Collingwood, i thought it was for all time.

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Post by Liam_Main Mon 23 May 2011 - 20:23

Nah Hobo I should of cleared that up in the Topic though will do now mate.
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Post by Liam_Main Mon 23 May 2011 - 20:25

I had it already wrote on the topic but i'll write it on the poll so people don't get mixed up thumbsup
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Post by Corporalhumblebucket Mon 23 May 2011 - 22:23

Hobo wrote:I would also put Collingwood on there to be honest
laughing

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Post by guildfordbat Tue 24 May 2011 - 0:18

Collingwood?! The world's best all rounder!

Reminds me of the time when John Lennon was asked if Ringo Starr was the best drummer in the world. He replied that Ringo wasn't even the best drummer in The Beatles! Similar applies to Collingwood and Durham Shocked

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Post by Liam_Main Tue 24 May 2011 - 8:08

guildfordbat wrote:Collingwood?! The world's best all rounder!

Reminds me of the time when John Lennon was asked if Ringo Starr was the best drummer in the world. He replied that Ringo wasn't even the best drummer in The Beatles! Similar applies to Collingwood and Durham Shocked

Would probably agree with that at the moment Stokes and Blackwell are playing leagues above Collingwood.
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Post by msp83 Wed 1 Jun 2011 - 14:46

it has to be Kallis. Watson's batting or bowling records do not stand up to that of JHK. the man is among the alltime great all-rounders the game has seen. when Fredye Flintoff was around I always voted from, as he forcesd people to think with the heart rather than brain, and his bowling was much superior to that of Kallis. but as an overall package, even Fredye doesn't stand up to Kallis.
special mention for Shakib Al Hasan, Bangladesh's best bowler, and 2nd best batter after Tamim Iqbal. its a close call between him and Watto for me for the 2nd place, Shakib is a much better bowler, Watson's a much better bat.

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Post by dummy_half Wed 1 Jun 2011 - 15:49

To be honest, it's not a great time for genuine all-rounders. Kallis undoubtedly was, but is now really a 4th seamer simply because age has caught up with him. Still a great batsman, but wouldn't now get picked for his bowling (ulike say 7 or 8 years ago, when he probably was South Africa's third best seam bowler).

Based on that, and for all forms of the game, I'd have to say Watson is the best currently, but even he's not been bowling that well over the last year or so, and has been batting away from his best position in Tests.

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Post by Gregers Wed 1 Jun 2011 - 16:05

Vettori for me, one of the best bowlers in the world and good batsmen as well!

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Post by Liam_Main Wed 1 Jun 2011 - 16:15

Gregers wrote:Vettori for me, one of the best bowlers in the world and good batsmen as well!

Finally someone agrees with is OK
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Post by KO-KING Sat 4 Jun 2011 - 19:17

Kallis is clear number one so didnt bother voting for him because i thought everyone would vote for him.
Voted for Shakib al Hasan-only 23/24 was top of the rankings for over 2 years, has a rudey poo team to play with averages over 30 with the bat and under 30 with the ball in both formats, Captain aswell, Recently watson has been amazing but not long enough run for me.

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Post by gboycottnut Sat 4 Jun 2011 - 23:43

What about Graham Napier as the best English all-rounder?

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Post by Corporalhumblebucket Sat 4 Jun 2011 - 23:44

Yahoo Yahoo

Don't forget Napier's recent exploits were on a small cricket ground (Whitgift) against a depleted Surrey attack.....

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Post by gboycottnut Sat 4 Jun 2011 - 23:55

Corporalhumblebucket wrote: Yahoo Yahoo

Don't forget Napier's recent exploits were on a small cricket ground (Whitgift) against a depleted Surrey attack.....

But at least Napier did the dirty deed on a Surrey side that contained Mark Ramprakash and the big show himself, with assistance from the tall giraffe!

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Post by eirebilly Sun 5 Jun 2011 - 11:00

Went for Kallis, he is simply brilliant.

On a side note, i didnt know that Broad was considered an all rounder?
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Post by MR. scotland27 Sun 5 Jun 2011 - 17:09

I think it is such a shame that Tendoes chate does not play for a test nation because he could be such a great player in all forms of the game.

Kallis is definitely the best on that list though.
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Post by Liam_Main Sun 5 Jun 2011 - 17:20

eirebilly wrote:Went for Kallis, he is simply brilliant.

On a side note, i didnt know that Broad was considered an all rounder?

He's in the ICC rankings for all-rounders.

Also could you argue otherwise that he isn't? A century and a handful of 50s. It's only a matter of time before he becomes Englands number 7 surely. Time will tell though.
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Post by Guest Sun 5 Jun 2011 - 20:28

I've gone for Yuvraj, more for the ODI game. The man is absolutely world class, batting and bowling.

Was a very tough call mind you...

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Post by eirebilly Mon 6 Jun 2011 - 9:47

Broad is handy with the bat Liam but i would hardly call him an all-rounder, just like i would'nt call Swann an all-rounder.

England tried to make him an all-rounder to replace Flintoff but his bowling suffered for it so they are only focusing on his bowling now and any runs he gets is a bonus. If the England management dont see him as an all rounder, why should i see him as one?
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Post by ShankyCricket Sat 2 Jul 2011 - 6:57

Liam


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Post by LivinginItaly Sat 2 Jul 2011 - 8:42

Can Kallis still be classed as an allrounder? Obviously on career stats he is by far the best allrounder on that list, but the OP title states current allrounder. IMO Kallis shouldn't currently be considered and allrounder, in much the same way that Trott or KP would not be allrounders even if they occaisionally bowl. Have mentioned before on previous threads that Kallis' bowling figures for the past 2/3 years have been shocking, almost collingwoodesque.

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Post by ShankyCricket Thu 14 Jul 2011 - 8:35

Liam

Mathews' Test Bowling Stats are awful.Watson is definitely a better Test bowler and obviously a better Test batsman than Mathews.In other words Watson is a better Test all rounder than Mathews.

Mathews is a better ODI All Rounder though bcoz he is more economical with the ball.He is not be as good as Watson with the bat but he has an excellent temperment and is a very good finisher lower down the order.

England would love to have an ODI All Rounder like him atm.

Lets hope Ben Stokes develops into one.I hope to see Stokes in the XI for the ODIs against India.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 14 Jul 2011 - 8:56

Liam_Main wrote:I was considering him but I don't think he hasn't got the all-round game which matches up too Vettori,Matthews etc.

Vettori is a good bowler in all formats and an OK batsman, Watson is a good batsman and OK bowler. I cant see how that makes him less of an all rounder.
Neither would be a front 5 option in their second discipline.
Mathews, like Pollard, is a true all rounder but he isnt as good a batsman as Watson or as good a bowler as Vettori.



ICC rankings
Top 10 test all rounders
1 451 J.H. Kallis 616 v Pakistan, 26/12/2002
2 364 D.L. Vettori 412 v Pakistan, 11/12/2009
3 338 Shakib Al Hasan 361 v England, 20/03/2010
4 315 S.R. Watson 321 v England, 16/12/2010
5 263 G.P. Swann 327 v Bangladesh, 12/03/2010
6 248 S.C.J. Broad 319 v Pakistan, 26/08/2010
7 243 M.G. Johnson 384 v England, 08/07/2009
8 240 Harbhajan Singh 240 v West Indies, 06/07/2011
9 228 D.J.J. Bravo 295 v Australia, 12/06/2008
10 208 C.H. Gayle 282 v England, 13/02/2009


Top 10 ODI all rounders

ID Rat. Name Nat. Career Best Rating
1 428 S.R. Watson 428 v Bangladesh, 13/04/2011
2 384 Shakib Al Hasan 453 v Zimbabwe, 05/11/2009
3 342 Shahid Afridi 382 v Bangladesh, 21/06/2010
4 339 J.H. Kallis 506 v West Indies, 09/05/2001
5 330 Yuvraj Singh 358 v Bangladesh, 11/01/2010
6 319 Mohammad Hafeez 324 v Ireland, 28/05/2011
7 307 D.L. Vettori 354 v Australia, 06/03/2010
8 306 R.N. ten Doeschate NET 322 v England, 22/02/2011
9 287 J.D.P. Oram 383 v Bangladesh, 14/10/2008
9 287 T.M. Dilshan 320 v India, 02/04/2011


Unofficial Top 10 T20 all rounders (Im not entirely convinced by these but theres no official ranking)
1 191.48 39 Shahid Afridi Pakistan
2 141.35 20 Gayle C.H West Indies
3 140.50 28 Vettori D.L New Zealand
4 131.59 30 Jayasuriya S.T Sri Lanka
5 131.34 25 Hussey D.J Australia
6 130.12 32 Umar Gul Pakistan
7 123.10 28 Pietersen K.P England
8 121.28 9 ten Doeschate R Netherlands
9 120.40 19 Mendis B.A.W Sri Lanka
10 120.35 22 Bravo D.J West Indies



Vetori is the only player to make all 3 lists with a lowest ranking of 7. So whilst Id still see him as a bowler who can bat a bit rather than a pure all rounder he must be a strong candidate for the all round best player in the world right now. Shows how vital he is to New Zealand as well, they really will be weak when he retires.
Honourable mentions to Watson and Kallis too. Its also worth noting how much the Windies are missing by not coming to terms with Gayle who is still ranked 2nd in T20 and 10th in test all rounders.

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Post by Barney92 Thu 14 Jul 2011 - 16:12

I'm glad to see that I wasn't the only one who voted for Shakib.

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Post by Liam_Main Thu 14 Jul 2011 - 16:20

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:Liam

Mathews' Test Bowling Stats are awful.Watson is definitely a better Test bowler and obviously a better Test batsman than Mathews.In other words Watson is a better Test all rounder than Mathews.

Mathews is a better ODI All Rounder though bcoz he is more economical with the ball.He is not be as good as Watson with the bat but he has an excellent temperment and is a very good finisher lower down the order.

England would love to have an ODI All Rounder like him atm.

Lets hope Ben Stokes develops into one.I hope to see Stokes in the XI for the ODIs against India.

Matthews hasn't played many tests thus far so I think it's a little to early to say if he's a better test bowler than Watson. I think Matthews will develop more into a test bowler the more he plays.

Ben Stokes is a real talent but i'm not sure on his bowling as of yet,his stats don't make for good baring.
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Post by ShankyCricket Thu 14 Jul 2011 - 18:44

liam

i know mate he hasnt played many tests but have a look at mathews' first class bowling stats.they are just as bad.I think mathews will be nothing more than a part timer at test level.a bit like colly.excellent one day player,ok test batsman,part time test bowler.
but i can understand why you rate mathews highly.

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Post by ShankyCricket Thu 14 Jul 2011 - 18:45

liam

i know mate he hasnt played many tests but have a look at mathews' first class bowling stats.they are just as bad.I think mathews will be nothing more than a part timer at test level.a bit like colly.excellent one day player,ok test batsman,part time test bowler.
but i can understand why you rate mathews highly.

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Post by Liam_Main Thu 14 Jul 2011 - 18:51

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:liam

i know mate he hasnt played many tests but have a look at mathews' first class bowling stats.they are just as bad.I think mathews will be nothing more than a part timer at test level.a bit like colly.excellent one day player,ok test batsman,part time test bowler.
but i can understand why you rate mathews highly.

True but then again he's not played many first-class games so it's a strange one.

This time next year we'll be alot more clearer if he's a batter who can bowl or a genuine all-rounder.
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Post by ShankyCricket Thu 14 Jul 2011 - 19:11

Fair enough mate.
You are right.Its too early to judge him.So lets just wait and watch.thats the only thing we can do atm.i hope he does well against the aussies.bowling against punter,pup,watto and huss on flat pitches in the coming series should be a good challenge for him.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri 15 Jul 2011 - 8:54

Imagine an England test player who after 16 games averaged 35 with the bat and 70 with the ball.
Now imagine him being described as the best all rounder in the world.

It wouldnt happen, so why does Mathews get a free pass? Isnt he infact the kind of player England get roundly critisized every time they pick, and funnily ewnough now they have stopped doing it they are in their best run of test peformances in modern times.

Mathews has a good ODI record, and a very good but not great T20 record. Hes an average test player. Hes not in the top 10 all round lists in any format, its daft to call him the best all rounder in the world across all formats or even bring him into the discussion.Yes he has the potential to get better. But so far he hasnt done it and isnt that great a player.

The opposite can be said of Kallis whos a great test player, a very good ODI one, and a pretty average T20 one. His repuattion is largely built on what he did earlier in his career, and theres no question that hes acheived more as an all rounde rthan any other currently active player could dream of...arguably hes the best of all time. But he is in decline, hes not the same force he once was. Whilst hes still toppoing the official test list and in the top 10 for ODI's his ratings are now way near what they were 10 years ago, and hes not had the greatest couple of years across all formats with the ball. Hes no longer a genuine front line bowler. At his age the assumption is hes unlikely to be turning it around any time soon. Any team woulkd still take him mind.

Vettori on the other hand has had the form of his life over the last few years with remarkable reulsts. Recently hes been the best all round peformer across all formats, at least the one whos been returning the best figures.
Taking 2008 as an arbitrary start date for "recent" ... in tests hes avergaed about 38 with the bat and 33 with the ball, in ODIs 25 with the bat and 28 at under 4 an over bowling, T20 17 with the bat and 18 with the ball at just over 5 an over. Its his economy rates in limited overs that really stand out, the likes of Mathews dream of that.
Hes a sharp catcher as well, and contrributes further as Captain. Maybe you could argue that his batting in limited overs isnt good enough to class him as a true all rounder, thats the only reason I can see to not have him as the current best all formats all round contributer.


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Post by ShankyCricket Fri 15 Jul 2011 - 9:58

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Imagine an England test player who after 16 games averaged 35 with the bat and 70 with the ball.
Now imagine him being described as the best all rounder in the world.

It wouldnt happen, so why does Mathews get a free pass? Isnt he infact the kind of player England get roundly critisized every time they pick, and funnily ewnough now they have stopped doing it they are in their best run of test peformances in modern times.

Mathews has a good ODI record, and a very good but not great T20 record. Hes an average test player. Hes not in the top 10 all round lists in any format, its daft to call him the best all rounder in the world across all formats or even bring him into the discussion.Yes he has the potential to get better. But so far he hasnt done it and isnt that great a player.

The opposite can be said of Kallis whos a great test player, a very good ODI one, and a pretty average T20 one. His repuattion is largely built on what he did earlier in his career, and theres no question that hes acheived more as an all rounde rthan any other currently active player could dream of...arguably hes the best of all time. But he is in decline, hes not the same force he once was. Whilst hes still toppoing the official test list and in the top 10 for ODI's his ratings are now way near what they were 10 years ago, and hes not had the greatest couple of years across all formats with the ball. Hes no longer a genuine front line bowler. At his age the assumption is hes unlikely to be turning it around any time soon. Any team woulkd still take him mind.

Vettori on the other hand has had the form of his life over the last few years with remarkable reulsts. Recently hes been the best all round peformer across all formats, at least the one whos been returning the best figures.
Taking 2008 as an arbitrary start date for "recent" ... in tests hes avergaed about 38 with the bat and 33 with the ball, in ODIs 25 with the bat and 28 at under 4 an over bowling, T20 17 with the bat and 18 with the ball at just over 5 an over. Its his economy rates in limited overs that really stand out, the likes of Mathews dream of that.
Hes a sharp catcher as well, and contrributes further as Captain. Maybe you could argue that his batting in limited overs isnt good enough to class him as a true all rounder, thats the only reason I can see to not have him as the current best all formats all round contributer.

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