Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread Part 'x'

by It Must Be Love Sun 20 Apr 2014, 11:20 pm

First topic message reminder :

I wouldn't mind Klopp replacing Moyes, if he does leave.

by FootballLight Wed 23 Apr 2014, 2:21 pm

I am going to summarise my point on Moyes. He had a 6-year contract at Man United and was sacked after less than 1 year. That tells you its own story. They obviously knew it was going to take time for him to rebuild. Ok, yes, they may not have thought the season was going to plummet like this, but it has done, but surely if you offered him a 6 year contract, you've got to at least give him another season or maybe two to turn it around. If he does worse this time next season, rightfully sack him, but not after just 1 season, no matter what the fans think. For me, it is just a silly and reckless decision because they want to be at the top as soon as possible, which isn't wrong but I still think Moyes was the right man to do it.

by Ent Wed 23 Apr 2014, 2:24 pm

hampo171 wrote:Roy wasn't there when Torres was sold for that money, Kenny was and he managed to convince Suarez to sign for us during his first 30 days at the club, a bigger signing than Roy made during his entire 6 months.

My original point however was you said fans shouldn't stick the boot in, of course other teams fans will stick the boot in because United fans have done it to them for years.

I said not to get annoyed at people putting the boot in.

by **hampo17** Wed 23 Apr 2014, 2:27 pm

Sorry Ent, C&R said that it was nonsense that United deserve a bashing over this, had United just sacked him without the media circus for nearly 24 hours before then yes, but that circus has certainly brought a sour taste to this whole situation.

by compelling and rich Wed 23 Apr 2014, 2:36 pm

i knew about the media backlash, you get used to that being a united fan. but fans are jumping on us like this is some totally unfair sacking. its not even the worst sacking this season and like ent says its purely because people like having digs at us

theres not a chance that there wouldnt have been this circus no matter how we handled it.

any other club in the world and he would have been sacked earlier, like the roy example were talking about. he came into a much tougher situation and lasted till jan. yet people are still jumping on us for sacking him early. massively hypocritical

by **owen10ozzy** Wed 23 Apr 2014, 2:37 pm

Yes I realise that Hammersmith;

Your club may have 'earned' the money in the past of that there is little doubt; but now it is brought in through slowly selling off avenue's of the club through commercialism. Again nothing wrong with that it's the nature of modern day football...but the difference is both Man Utd as a club and it's fans pride themselves on being this traditionally run british football club and it is no longer the case...

I would argue that to some degree Utd are actually worse in the way they have gone about refinancing. Chelsea & City may very well rely on foreign investors to pump money into the club (though a little research on City will show you that they have heavily invested in youth academy's...football university as well as pumped millions into growth & development schemes in and around the stadium as well as new housing)...but at least the money is there and accounted for...

Utd sold there club to a family who didn't have the necessary capital required and relied upon hefty loans and re-finance packages in order to purchase the club. When the economical crisis hit they were forced to put multiple advertising contracts up for grabs to the highest bidders in order to raise capital as well as eventually having to sell shares and float the club on the stock market...

Manchester Utd is now the definition of a modern day football club....business first...football second. Whether that's something that the fans realise/wish to believe is another thing...but like any business on the FTSE all decisions from here on out will weigh heavily on how the stock market reacts and nothing more than that.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Wed 23 Apr 2014, 3:15 pm

compelling and rich wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Are you going to claim we're all jealous of United again? Your club deserves a bashing, you can protect your ego as a club and scapegoat Moyes but you'd be naive or vindictive to do so

our club deserves bashing for getting rid of a clearly out of his depth manager?!

nonsense, this isnt us getting rid of a manager who has just won us the champions league ala chelsea, this isnt even as bad as cardiffs sacking of mackay. this was a deserved sacking

I meant deserved a bashing because they have been awful this year, which is down to more than the manager. It also deserves a bashing for making long term really just short term.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Wed 23 Apr 2014, 3:20 pm

To be fair, that Liverpool job was really an easy one to walk into. It needed a rebuilding after Benitez, granted, but they were always going to come again. You can bemoan all the money of City and Chelsea etc, but no poor club turns down the money they did for Suarez. It was inevitable Liverpool would win the Premier League eventually, they are above the glass ceiling that has killed much of English football.

by Ent Wed 23 Apr 2014, 3:50 pm

Yes, no doubt the club didn't do well In how they went about it. Can't argue with the decision though.

It is annoying to read things such as the stockist flotation and the academy being criticised and suggestions the ethos of the club has been abandoned - that is just ignorance.

The club floated as a plc in the early 90s, there's always been issues and Having to answer to shareholders. To read someone suggesting that oil barons are preferable to a club making money from commercial deals is just nonsense.

The academy, I can't even be bothered to go into huge details about it but the system changed, it's cheaper an easier to recruit youngsters from Europe into your academy. Even at that you can just look through squad lists of pl and championship teams to see we still produce a lot of players who go on to have good careers in the game. Well done to other clubs who being players into their first teams but we've had 2 decades of title challenges and deep runs in Europe, the standard required is quite high.

It's also wrong to suggest success was seamless, we went 3 years with no trophies, spent a lot on teenagers and developed them further and ended up with another long period of succcess. They key was we were still in the cl and progress was being made.

by nasisillmatic Wed 23 Apr 2014, 4:25 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:To be fair, that Liverpool job was really an easy one to walk into. It needed a rebuilding after Benitez, granted, but they were always going to come again. You can bemoan all the money of City and Chelsea etc, but no poor club turns down the money they did for Suarez. It was inevitable Liverpool would win the Premier League eventually, they are above the glass ceiling that has killed much of English football.

You make it sound so simple. Believe me, as Liverpool fan it's been anything but.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Wed 23 Apr 2014, 4:30 pm

nasisillmatic wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:To be fair, that Liverpool job was really an easy one to walk into. It needed a rebuilding after Benitez, granted, but they were always going to come again. You can bemoan all the money of City and Chelsea etc, but no poor club turns down the money they did for Suarez. It was inevitable Liverpool would win the Premier League eventually, they are above the glass ceiling that has killed much of English football.

You make it sound so simple. Believe me, as Liverpool fan it's been anything but.

It is a simplification, but it was always gonna happen.

by nasisillmatic Wed 23 Apr 2014, 4:43 pm

I wish I'd shared your optimism the past few years.

by Stella Wed 23 Apr 2014, 4:45 pm

I never would have predicted Liverpool would win the league within the next 10 years, what with the money Chelsea and City have.

by mystiroakey Wed 23 Apr 2014, 5:44 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
nasisillmatic wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:To be fair, that Liverpool job was really an easy one to walk into. It needed a rebuilding after Benitez, granted, but they were always going to come again. You can bemoan all the money of City and Chelsea etc, but no poor club turns down the money they did for Suarez. It was inevitable Liverpool would win the Premier League eventually, they are above the glass ceiling that has killed much of English football.

You make it sound so simple. Believe me, as Liverpool fan it's been anything but.

It is a simplification, but it was always gonna happen.

and that is why united fans can still be hopeful- big clubs are big clubs- united will be back.

by Ent Wed 23 Apr 2014, 5:54 pm

Dunno, your an oil baron away from the top four being a shut out.

Our revenues depend on cl football and success, a long period out if that and we won't have the financial clout to get back.

Not to dismiss liverpools achievement this year but they aren't back to the pinnacle of the game, they've been lucky.

by FootballLight Wed 23 Apr 2014, 5:57 pm

Van Gaal is the perfect fit for United. He has an exceptional record so I do think he has enough in his locker to be able to rise United right back up to the top once again. He also knows how to rile his players up before big games, which is always a key factor, especially in United's current position. He will give the players a rocket up their bum if they need it. He also has a fantastic attacking philosophy, that's why Netherlands are so good going forward, because of their philosophy and their players. He could spring that fear factor right back into United's side.

by mystiroakey Wed 23 Apr 2014, 5:58 pm

Ent you are just being pessimistic- dont worry

Van gaal will be your manager almost guaranteed- that will keep RVP, it will also boost the club big time- the players will respect him. He will be able to snap up dutch talent which united has allways worked well with.

He wont be there long as he is old- but he will get you back as a top 4club with quality players- then you can think about the next long term manager once he has sorted your team out

by FootballLight Wed 23 Apr 2014, 6:02 pm

He could be there for a while if he does a SAF job. But I doubt it. I do feel, if he can acquire some of that Dutch team (attacking/midfield players rather than defenders) then he has every chance of making United successful again.

by mystiroakey Wed 23 Apr 2014, 6:10 pm

yep agreed- he is the man to give the budget to. He has been at bayern, barca and holland at the moment and previously . These are some of the most stressfull jobs in the world

Managing Man U although is highly stressful may seem like a nice chilled out job. The Dutch managers get the same kind of media bs the england ones do.. He is used to the pressure cooker environment and he is the man to move you lot forward without needing to worrying about fergies rep. The next manager will then have a talent to play with.

by Ent Wed 23 Apr 2014, 6:11 pm

Who in the Dutch team is worth having?

Seriously I haven't see a game under van gaal.

Don't say strootman.

by mystiroakey Wed 23 Apr 2014, 6:12 pm

Ent wrote:Who in the Dutch team is worth having?

Seriously I haven't see a game under van gaal.

Don't say strootman.

he could get emerging talent, but not just dutch talent - any talent- he has been everywhere.

trust me- he is your best option and lt seems to be a done deal

by Ent Wed 23 Apr 2014, 6:15 pm

I don't doubt he's a good choice.

Don't buy the tenuous link to signing Dutch players mind.

by FootballLight Wed 23 Apr 2014, 6:20 pm

Blind?
Sneidjer?
Robben?
Lens?
Huntelaar?

by mystiroakey Wed 23 Apr 2014, 6:24 pm

Ent wrote:I don't doubt he's a good choice.

Don't buy the tenuous link to signing Dutch players mind.

Do you not think RVP will change his attitude about wanting to leave if Van Gaal is signed!

Van gaal loves RVP- he is his captain.

So well even if he doesnt sign any other dutchman- you would be assured of keeping RVP and not just keeping him but also motivating him

by **Hero** Wed 23 Apr 2014, 6:26 pm

What's the issue with Strootman? He's currently injured but there's not many better option in his role going.
Dutch wise there's a few emerging talents to look out for, Veltman as a centreback has had a fantastic season for Ajax and is 22.
There's actually a wealth of young Dutch talent coming through at present, probably the best crop in a long time, Vilhena, Maher, Blind, Klaassen, Depay, Boetius, Promes, De Vrij, Clasie, Rekik, van Rhijn, Propper, all of these are the future of the national team and all have already had call ups.

by **Hero** Wed 23 Apr 2014, 6:28 pm

I'd be as bold in fact to say the current crop of young 20somethings and late teens from the Netherlands are up there with Germans and Spanish for quality, getting first dibs on a few on them would be well advised.

by Hammersmith harrier Wed 23 Apr 2014, 6:29 pm

owen10ozzy wrote:Yes I realise that Hammersmith;

Your club may have 'earned' the money in the past of that there is little doubt; but now it is brought in through slowly selling off avenue's of the club through commercialism. Again nothing wrong with that it's the nature of modern day football...but the difference is both Man Utd as a club and it's fans pride themselves on being this traditionally run british football club and it is no longer the case...

I would argue that to some degree Utd are actually worse in the way they have gone about refinancing. Chelsea & City may very well rely on foreign investors to pump money into the club (though a little research on City will show you that they have heavily invested in youth academy's...football university as well as pumped millions into growth & development schemes in and around the stadium as well as new housing)...but at least the money is there and accounted for...

Utd sold there club to a family who didn't have the necessary capital required and relied upon hefty loans and re-finance packages in order to purchase the club. When the economical crisis hit they were forced to put multiple advertising contracts up for grabs to the highest bidders in order to raise capital as well as eventually having to sell shares and float the club on the stock market...

Manchester Utd is now the definition of a modern day football club....business first...football second. Whether that's something that the fans realise/wish to believe is another thing...but like any business on the FTSE all decisions from here on out will weigh heavily on how the stock market reacts and nothing more than that.

I don't agree with that at all and you do need to get facts right before making such sweeping and inaccurate statements.

The Glazers had the capital to purchase the club outright, they have a net worth of approximately $5bil so they could have bought the club outright quite comfortably if they had chosen to but knowing they were in it for the long haul decided to minimise their personal risk. Almost every top club has debt, Barcelona and Real Madrid have debt that they do nothing about because the Spanish authorities turn a blind eye, whereas we are constantly finding ways to reduce it and year after year post record figures for turnover and net profit.

A traditionally run club lives within it's means which is something we do better than anybody and because of our reputation we're able to squeeze more money out of advertising and commercialism than any other club. How that is the wrong thing to do you'll have to explain to me because not trying to benefit from the name as fully as possible is just an absurd business model.

The moment you tried suggesting that our business model is worse than City and Chelsea's was the moment I realised that yet again you were posting a load of nonsense, something you do quite a bit Owen. We are still fairly unique in the way we go about things, of the elite there's only Arsenal and Liverpool who rely on themselves. You can't account for Chelsea's and Cities money because technically it doesn't exist within the club, it is cash injection after cash injection from their owners and last time I checked we didn't have a very shady deal in place with Etihad that wasn't value for money.

All you can ask for from a club in the modern day is to have in place a workable business model, we do, Liverpool do, Arsenal do but Chelsea and City do not hence why they simply can't make a profit.

As for things being business first, our 5 leagues titles, champions league title and two further champions league finals would suggest we are still very much football first as would the continuous investment in the club.

We still have a youth system that produces more players than the majority of top flight clubs, players that have been trained exclusively at the club and not poached from other clubs at a young age. We do invest in young international talent like Januzaj but we also produce players like Welbeck and Lingard, our youth products don't always make the grade at the club itself but throughout the league system other teams benefit too.

by Ent Wed 23 Apr 2014, 8:28 pm

Hero wrote:What's the issue with Strootman? He's currently injured but there's not many better option in his role going.
Dutch wise there's a few emerging talents to look out for, Veltman as a centreback has had a fantastic season for Ajax and is 22.
There's actually a wealth of young Dutch talent coming through at present, probably the best crop in a long time, Vilhena, Maher, Blind, Klaassen, Depay, Boetius, Promes, De Vrij, Clasie, Rekik, van Rhijn, Propper, all of these are the future of the national team and all have already had call ups.

No issue, I'm just aware of him and he has been linked many times with no move made for him.

Don't think he is considered good enough considering we didn't go in and he went to Roma, but Van Gaal may want certain players he is famililar with.

Must keep an eye out for some of these other ones during the world cup.

by skyeman Wed 23 Apr 2014, 8:34 pm

nasisillmatic wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:To be fair, that Liverpool job was really an easy one to walk into. It needed a rebuilding after Benitez, granted, but they were always going to come again. You can bemoan all the money of City and Chelsea etc, but no poor club turns down the money they did for Suarez. It was inevitable Liverpool would win the Premier League eventually, they are above the glass ceiling that has killed much of English football.

You make it sound so simple. Believe me, as Liverpool fan it's been anything but.

Totally agree. Anyone could say such a thing.

I could say now that it is inevitable that Norwich will win the Premier League eventually or whatever it is called when we are long dead Very Happy

by Hammersmith harrier Wed 23 Apr 2014, 8:36 pm

Bit different when you're talking about a club of Liverpools stature, the most successful club in English football until Ferguson took over United.

by skyeman Wed 23 Apr 2014, 8:43 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Bit different when you're talking about a club of Liverpools stature, the most successful club in English football until Ferguson took over United.

Yes, but still a sweeping statement.

Bill Gates might fancy a bit of Delias tart Very Happy

by Ent Wed 23 Apr 2014, 8:46 pm

Football changed whilst liverpool slumped though.

I don't think anyone seriously predicted or thought they would win the PL any time soon, given the riches at city and chelsea and the united empire (crumbling as we speak...).

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Wed 23 Apr 2014, 8:47 pm

There's more chance of me pulling Mila Kunis than there is of the Nodge ever winning the Prem

by skyeman Wed 23 Apr 2014, 8:49 pm

Olly wrote:There's more chance of me pulling Mila Kunis than there is of the Nodge ever winning the Prem

by GSC Wed 23 Apr 2014, 8:49 pm

There's always Mila Inwards Olly

by skyeman Wed 23 Apr 2014, 8:55 pm

A club like Blackburn gained a rich owner and won the PL. Where are they now?

Anything is possible in sport. And even without multi-millions it can still be possible, which has been proven time and again.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Wed 23 Apr 2014, 8:56 pm

GSC wrote:There's always Mila Inwards Olly

That's the dream GSC, that's the dream

by Ent Wed 23 Apr 2014, 9:03 pm

skyeman wrote:A club like Blackburn gained a rich owner and won the PL. Where are they now?

Anything is possible in sport. And even without multi-millions it can still be possible, which has been proven time and again.

Yes in a period where no one else had comparable wealth.

Now Chelsea and City are backed by oil barons, with United having huge revenues and an empire of sorts.

You are talking about another Sheik Mansour picking up aside and investing the best part of a Billion pounds to get close to a smaller club picking up a PL title.

Let's take Man City, they had 5 years 2 billionaire owners amd 581 million pounds spent on players to get 1 PL title. They've spent another 154.5 million since and don't look like winning another one this year.

It could happen, of course it could - but it is just so unlikely.

by skyeman Wed 23 Apr 2014, 9:14 pm

Ent wrote:
skyeman wrote:A club like Blackburn gained a rich owner and won the PL. Where are they now?

Anything is possible in sport. And even without multi-millions it can still be possible, which has been proven time and again.

Yes in a period where no one else had comparable wealth.

Now Chelsea and City are backed by oil barons, with United having huge revenues and an empire of sorts.

You are talking about another Sheik Mansour picking up aside and investing the best part of a Billion pounds to get close to a smaller club picking up a PL title.

Let's take Man City, they had 5 years 2 billionaire owners amd 581 million pounds spent on players to get 1 PL title. They've spent another 154.5 million since and don't look like winning another one this year.

It could happen, of course it could - but it is just so unlikely.

Probably right, but i live in hope.

by Ent Wed 23 Apr 2014, 9:19 pm

I'd rather we had serious FFP style rules to stop Billionaires bank rolling teams.

With group negotiating rights and distribution of TV money it is always feasible we could see more Liverpool (of this season) type stories cropping up and grabbing the odd title in amongst the big boys.

by GSC Wed 23 Apr 2014, 9:25 pm

I have no problem with billionaires. Only way smaller clubs can consistently compete in today's football. FFP is always about protecting the elite

by Ent Wed 23 Apr 2014, 9:29 pm

GSC wrote:I have no problem with billionaires. Only way smaller clubs can consistently compete in today's football. FFP is always about protecting the elite

Not implemented in a proper fashion. I'd also have a maximum squad size to stop the bigger sides stockpiling players. Homegrowns don't count but players on loan do.

The PL gets huge tv deals, relatively fair distribution of this money could (in theory) lead to teams building good sides over a few years and having tilts at the title.

There are only so many billionaires, Liverpool have done well (with a good dash of fortune) to win the PL this year but thats just so unlikely given the wealth of Chelsea and City.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Wed 23 Apr 2014, 9:29 pm

skyeman wrote:
Ent wrote:
skyeman wrote:A club like Blackburn gained a rich owner and won the PL. Where are they now?

Anything is possible in sport. And even without multi-millions it can still be possible, which has been proven time and again.

Yes in a period where no one else had comparable wealth.

Now Chelsea and City are backed by oil barons, with United having huge revenues and an empire of sorts.

You are talking about another Sheik Mansour picking up aside and investing the best part of a Billion pounds to get close to a smaller club picking up a PL title.

Let's take Man City, they had 5 years 2 billionaire owners amd 581 million pounds spent on players to get 1 PL title. They've spent another 154.5 million since and don't look like winning another one this year.

It could happen, of course it could - but it is just so unlikely.

Probably right, but i live in hope.

I made the statement cos I don't live in much hope. I don't like the fact the only way for any other team to win the league will be dirty money. Whereas Liverpool were too big not to come again.

by **Hero** Thu 24 Apr 2014, 12:55 am

TBH as well Liverpool have hardly scrimped on transfers in the past how many years, I imagine they've got a higher expenditure than most clubs, reckon higher than Utd even.

by Duty281 Thu 24 Apr 2014, 4:50 pm

FreekShow wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Great reading that freak..

Palace down on everyone's as well
Duty - bless him - believed.

Of course I did. thumbsup

Palace were never going down! And Pulis is a borderline-miracle worker.

by Guest Thu 24 Apr 2014, 5:22 pm

Oh hello!

by Duty281 Thu 24 Apr 2014, 5:29 pm

One could never stay away from this place for too long!

by skyeman Thu 24 Apr 2014, 5:33 pm

Duty281 wrote:One could never stay away from this place for too long!

Welcome back.

by Guest Thu 24 Apr 2014, 5:33 pm

Good lad

Mysti was threatening to be the resident England flag bearer this summer. Top man is Mysti but he ain't no Dooty.

Right, I'm off to buy an inflatable PL trophy Run

by skyeman Thu 24 Apr 2014, 5:34 pm

FreekShow wrote:Good lad

Mysti was threatening to be the resident England flag bearer this summer. Top man is Mysti but he ain't no Dooty.

Right, I'm off to buy an inflatable PL trophy

by **Hero** Thu 24 Apr 2014, 5:35 pm

Hero wrote:TBH as well Liverpool have hardly scrimped on transfers in the past how many years, I imagine they've got a higher expenditure than most clubs, reckon higher than Utd even.

Just checked up on this point I made.

Liverpool have the 3rd highest spend on incoming players in the Premier League since 2003 with £491m compared to Utd on £448m

by Sponsored content