Why I believe Marcos Rene Maidana can beat Floyd Mayweather

First topic message reminder :

Hello Gents,

First time OP here. A big fight coming up soon between MM vs FMJ. A lot of people are writing off Marcos Maidana before he has already fought FMJ. I believe he has the tools to win this fight. After watching his recent fights he will give FMJ much more of a fight than most believe. His foot work and head movement have improved massively under Garcia. His out putt of punches alone can win him this fight. A lot of people were touting Canelo to beat FMJ which I thought was never going to happen due to his lack of speed. Maidana does not suffer from a lack of speed IMHO. He's not the quickest but his in your face style could really upset FMJ. A continuing improving MM can finally get rid of FMJ 0.

I could be wrong. Normally I am . Either way I'm putting some money on MM for a W.

All the best.

AdamT wrote:

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:2015 will be the year Floyd gets tested

I like Maidana but as peeps said he's perfect for floyd to look a million dollars. We all onow that he'll fight one of Khan or Collazo in September which will be a routine win depending on which one fights him so it won't be this year he faces a real threat

Floyd is struggling for opponents and the most dangerous of them either fight at 154 or fight for Top rank. GB have a large roster of really good fighters like Maidana, Guerrero, Berto, thurman, garcia, broner tc that are all around the same level and make for great fights, but unfortunately these fighters fall short of the level of the last lot of welters we had over a half a decade ago like your Cotto's, Mosleys, DLH's who were a serious threat to floyd. Lara-Canelo winner is the biggest threat out there apart from manny

Good post and agree with Lara being a potential threat. However I do not agree with Pacman being a test now. I think it was an awesome potential fight up until Marquez sparked him. Think he is'nt quite the same since that and i would imagine Floyd would have no bother countering Pac and walking him down all Night.

Styles make fights and no doubt a fast southpaw who can fight for 3 minutes a round and punch from strange angles would give Floyd a real test. Problem is that fighter aint the same. If Pac and May get it on, it would still be a huge spectable, though a competitve fight it would not.

I meant more as in Pac is the most likely of the welterweights to beat him, I know floyd would be the heavy favourite

It's the footwork of pacquiao that can trouble Floyd. While he doesn't have the same power and speed he still has a lot of movement and a good engine. Floyds defence is becoming more footwork orientated then he used to be as he doesn't quite have the same reflexes he used to when he was younger. You never see him on the ropes slipping shots, he's always in the centre of the ring and Pacquiao may be the only person with the footwork to keep him on the ropes

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:

AdamT wrote:

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:2015 will be the year Floyd gets tested

I like Maidana but as peeps said he's perfect for floyd to look a million dollars. We all onow that he'll fight one of Khan or Collazo in September which will be a routine win depending on which one fights him so it won't be this year he faces a real threat

Floyd is struggling for opponents and the most dangerous of them either fight at 154 or fight for Top rank. GB have a large roster of really good fighters like Maidana, Guerrero, Berto, thurman, garcia, broner tc that are all around the same level and make for great fights, but unfortunately these fighters fall short of the level of the last lot of welters we had over a half a decade ago like your Cotto's, Mosleys, DLH's who were a serious threat to floyd. Lara-Canelo winner is the biggest threat out there apart from manny

Good post and agree with Lara being a potential threat. However I do not agree with Pacman being a test now. I think it was an awesome potential fight up until Marquez sparked him. Think he is'nt quite the same since that and i would imagine Floyd would have no bother countering Pac and walking him down all Night.

Styles make fights and no doubt a fast southpaw who can fight for 3 minutes a round and punch from strange angles would give Floyd a real test. Problem is that fighter aint the same. If Pac and May get it on, it would still be a huge spectable, though a competitve fight it would not.

I meant more as in Pac is the most likely of the welterweights to beat him, I know floyd would be the heavy favourite

It's the footwork of pacquiao that can trouble Floyd. While he doesn't have the same power and speed he still has a lot of movement and a good engine. Floyds defence is becoming more footwork orientated then he used to be as he doesn't quite have the same reflexes he used to when he was younger. You never see him on the ropes slipping shots, he's always in the centre of the ring and Pacquiao may be the only person with the footwork to keep him on the ropes

Maybe am being a tad Harsh on Pac because Mayweather probably isn't quite in his peak either at least regards reflexes and a touch of speed. It's an interesting clash of styles. Pity they didnt fight in 09 or 10.

If you look at Maidana's KO record he has failed to knock anyone out at the highest level,Broner,Khan,Morales,Alexander,Kotelink,Demarcus Corley, so even if he lands don't see him knocking Floyd out.

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:2015 will be the year Floyd gets tested

I like Maidana but as peeps said he's perfect for floyd to look a million dollars. We all onow that he'll fight one of Khan or Collazo in September which will be a routine win depending on which one fights him so it won't be this year he faces a real threat

Floyd is struggling for opponents and the most dangerous of them either fight at 154 or fight for Top rank. GB have a large roster of really good fighters like Maidana, Guerrero, Berto, thurman, garcia, broner tc that are all around the same level and make for great fights, but unfortunately these fighters fall short of the level of the last lot of welters we had over a half a decade ago like your Cotto's, Mosleys, DLH's who were a serious threat to floyd. Lara-Canelo winner is the biggest threat out there apart from manny

Struggling? He could fight anyone he wanted from 140-160. All he has to do is ring their promoter - politics don't apply to Mayweather.

I don't think anyone on the thread has disrespected Maidana, certainly not myself.

He's a solid champ who's taken on some quality opposition and has won legitimate world title fights. However, as someone else observed, if Devon Alexander was able to shut Maidana out, then Floyd, assuming he hasn't aged dramatically, completely dominates him.

It's a valid opinion and it isn't disrespectful to Maidana to say as much, regardless of how much certain posters, for whatever reason, seek to venerate Mayweather's opposition..

Venerate? You'll be getting accusations of pseudo intellectualism coming your way gentleman.

Maidana is perfectly reasonable opponent for anyone in the welter division. He just doesn't have a hope in hell against mayweather, so i won't be burning the midnight oil to watch it.

Someone raised the question of his output earlier. I think he halved his usual output against alexander. Like any fighter, he'll only throw at what he thinks he can hit. He might not throw a punch against floyd, who'll be out of range by the time he's set himself to throw!

milkyboy wrote:
Someone raised the question of his output earlier. I think he halved his usual output against alexander. Like any fighter, he'll only throw at what he thinks he can hit. He might not throw a punch against floyd, who'll be out of range by the time he's set himself to throw!

Agreed. I don't think output is a real issue for Floyd. Before the 10th round against Khan Maidana had a connect ratio below the mid teens %-wise if I remember correctly. I expect him to miss loads against Floyd and then to stop throwing once he realises he's being countered all the time.

We've heard it so many times before that the way to beat Mayweather is by throwing a lot, I could be wrong but I think N'Dou and Chavez had the highest output against him and both were quite brutally cut down. 

The more you throw against him the more opportunities you give him to counter you, Chavez was throwing over 100 punches per round, landing very little but eating flush shot after flush shot. 

The same thing happened against N'Dou, the only difference being that Chavez was retired by his corner. You need a good output not necessarily anything special but you need to effectively pressure him at the same time something that De La Hoya did at stages and something Castillo did throughout the first fight.

I think Maidana is amazing. Khan used to be amazing, but Floyd chose Marcos so he is more amazing now.

Rowley wrote:I think Maidana is amazing. Khan used to be amazing, but Floyd chose Marcos so he is more amazing now.

Sorry Rowley but muscling in on spring is like taking candy from a retarded foetus. Shame on you

Many a true word spoken in jest shah.

Rowley wrote:Many a true word spoken in jest shah.

I know, you F***ing C**T, LOL

Rowley is losing the plot

Welcome Boom.

Sorry to disagree so early on in your 606 career, but i am tending to see the complete opposite here.


Taylor made for Floyd, no real speed or defence. Standby sharp right hands all night.

Listen, if Khan can take his best shots and put him down as well, then i cant see Floyd having problems.

Don't get me wrong, Marcos is a tough SOB, just think he gets hammered slightly here and loses a wide UD, possibly knocked down along the way

Floyd loves when his opponent runs at him and he lays on the ropes. Look at the punches Ortiz was winging in before he ended up using the head, not one of them landed. That's how Maidana throws and that's how I see this fight going.....excluding the headbutt. But Maidana will give it his all but unfortunately Floyd has shown he has a blueprint for this kind of fight.

As much as I am a big Maidana fan, I just can't see what else he can bring that Mayweather hasn't already seen and handled with ease

I just can't see any boxer at WW causing Floyd issues. Maidana is a cruder version of Pacquiao and he doesn't have the power either. Pacquiao does - thats the only reason people think Pac has a chance because he's a southpaw and he throws a lot.

Maidana was made for Mayweather. Come forward slugger he may no longer be, but he still does come forward, thats his entire game - Mayweather will pick him off all night. He's hard enough to hit at the best of times, but when he's seeing the punches coming from a mile away, he'll stick forward that belter of a right cross all night long.

THinking about it more and more, i still think that there are only 2/3 Welterweights in history that bother Mayweather, Hearns, Leonard and Duran. Can't see anyone else causing him any issues. Duran wouldn't let up, he'd be relentless. Leonard would be just as fast and just as slick as Mayweather, maybe moreso as he had more power and Hearns was a wrecking machine at Welter.

Shame, cos I'd love Maidana to do well but I think it'll be really one sided.

Vernon Forrest gives him issues too for me. Probably wouldn't beat him though.

Only 2/3 welterweights in the history of boxing that could cause Mayweather bother. That is a corker.

It would appear I'm the only man out there who believes (the dam optimist in me). It's likely Maidana is taken to the cleaners but I really think this will be a much closer fight than many think. Perhaps it was the gin and seeing Maidana hammer Broner that inspired the post. Hopefully Garcia has ODLH's blueprint nailed on the gym wall.   

And while I'm on the subject of gin gentleman try it with a slice of cucumber instead of lemon!

Wouldn't be worth robinson, gavilan, napoles, Ross or Armstrong turning up against floyd.

Curry, sweet p, and a younger version of de la Hoya (than the one he only got the measure if when he gassed) would just be honoured to carry his jockstrap.

 

Understand your point jabby, and maybe it's the use of the word 'bother', but you might be over-egging the pudding a touch.

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:

John Bloody Wayne wrote:DO you really think boxers don't do things just through laziness? He didn't have the ability so he lost.

I disagree on Maidana's outright toughness. Alexander isn't a puncher and he had him hurt on the ropes to the body and head. Mayweather certainly isn't Golovkin but he can hit at Alexander's level.

Taking punishment without getting knocked out is the very definition of toughness. Maidana is easy to hit, takes punches, yet has only been down once, to a body shot, in the last 5 years. He is tough.

If Broner fought Maidana again he'd have a completely different game-plan. Why? because he got it so wrong first time around. Broner had zero respect for Maidana, now he has lots.

Actually I agree on the toughness part, although maybe rugged is more suitable. He isn't that easy to hit now Garcia's improved him, but he does get hurt fairly regularly. Lopez had him down but it wasn't called.

I'm not convinced Broner can fight another way. We'll see! I didn't think he was the sort of fighter who got up from heavy knock downs and fought back.

Burley v Mayweather would be scored on who feints most effectively.

BoomBoomBaby wrote:It would appear I'm the only man out there who believes (the dam optimist in me). It's likely Maidana is taken to the cleaners but I really think this will be a much closer fight than many think. Perhaps it was the gin and seeing Maidana hammer Broner that inspired the post. Hopefully Garcia has ODLH's blueprint nailed on the gym wall.   

And while I'm on the subject of gin gentleman try it with a slice of cucumber instead of lemon!  

I really hope he doesn't as that blueprint is incomplete   

I think it's safe to assume that young prime versions of DLH, Cotto and Mosley would all give Floyd a lot of troubles given there older more shop worn versions all gave Floyd troubles, and they are just fighters since 2000, so I doubt there are only 2/3 fighters in welter history that can trouble floyd

Leonard, Robinson, Hearns, Armstrong, Gavilan, Napoles, Griffith, Mosley, De La Hoya, Forrest, Ross, Mclarnin, Duran and Whitaker all give him something to think about. Only make the first three a favourite but you can't rule out any of the rest.

If a 34-year old, two fights in three years dela Hoya can come within a round of snatching a draw, it seems strange to give a prime Ozzy no cha chance. Similarly, hard to see Floyd's style of fighting winning him everything in the pre WWII era. Strange call to make

kingraf wrote:If a 34-year old, two fights in three years dela Hoya can come within a round of snatching a draw, it seems strange to give a prime Ozzy no cha chance. Similarly, hard to see Floyd's style of fighting winning him everything in the pre WWII era. Strange call to make

He wasn't within a round of doing anything of the sort really Raf, the judging of that fight was a disgrace, at best I have Oscar 3 rounds which was being generous to his early workrate very little of which landed.

I think I had FMJ-DLH 116-112 with the rounds fairly easy to score.

Never really thought that the De la Hoya fight was one of Mayweather's best showings, to be honest. Gets dressed up as a masterclass, perhaps because it was his arrival as a crossover star and because of the sheer scale of the fight, but not a fight I'd go to if I wanted to show someone who wasn't aware of Mayweather how great he is.

Agree with Hammersmith that a couple of the cards were a little bit kind to Oscar, but at the same time there's no way Mayweather won the fight at a canter or totally dominated Oscar the way some claim, either.

Floyd was never at any stage behind as far as I'm concerned, but for me there wasn't really much (if anything at all) in it for eight rounds. Mayweather was well on top in the final four rounds and I think it's impossible to have it as anything other than a win for him, but he was helped out a little by the fact that De la Hoya trailed off near the end, albeit Floyd took advantage of that well and was able to lift his level to enough of an extent to cash in.

Mayweather won it by 3 or 4 rounds for me, but I still think that a post-prime Oscar gave him a pretty stern examination. Not to enough of an extent for me to think that a peak De la Hoya would be favourite against Floyd or would definitely beat him, but close enough for me to think that both of them at their best facing off against each other would be one hell of a fight.

I remember having Oscar 4-2 up after six rounds, then he started to blow and Mayweather took over and won 5 or 6 rounds in the second half of the fight.

It was frustrating to watch as Oscar showed the potential to do it but then went flat. In fairness to Floyd he is a slow starter and that played into De La Hoya's hands initially.

Yeah I think to a certain extent Floyd needs to work out and adapt to his opponent but Oscar just wasn't in great shape.

I too had it even after 8, with floyd pulling away when Oscar faded. In fairness Oscar tended to fade in fights in his prime and floyd is a slow starter, so you can't make assumptions on how things would give gone prime for prime. Oscar was a damn sight faster in his youth, though.

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:

AdamT wrote:

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:2015 will be the year Floyd gets tested

I like Maidana but as peeps said he's perfect for floyd to look a million dollars. We all onow that he'll fight one of Khan or Collazo in September which will be a routine win depending on which one fights him so it won't be this year he faces a real threat

Floyd is struggling for opponents and the most dangerous of them either fight at 154 or fight for Top rank. GB have a large roster of really good fighters like Maidana, Guerrero, Berto, thurman, garcia, broner tc that are all around the same level and make for great fights, but unfortunately these fighters fall short of the level of the last lot of welters we had over a half a decade ago like your Cotto's, Mosleys, DLH's who were a serious threat to floyd. Lara-Canelo winner is the biggest threat out there apart from manny

Good post and agree with Lara being a potential threat. However I do not agree with Pacman being a test now. I think it was an awesome potential fight up until Marquez sparked him. Think he is'nt quite the same since that and i would imagine Floyd would have no bother countering Pac and walking him down all Night.

Styles make fights and no doubt a fast southpaw who can fight for 3 minutes a round and punch from strange angles would give Floyd a real test. Problem is that fighter aint the same. If Pac and May get it on, it would still be a huge spectable, though a competitve fight it would not.

I meant more as in Pac is the most likely of the welterweights to beat him, I know floyd would be the heavy favourite

It's the footwork of pacquiao that can trouble Floyd. While he doesn't have the same power and speed he still has a lot of movement and a good engine. Floyds defence is becoming more footwork orientated then he used to be as he doesn't quite have the same reflexes he used to when he was younger. You never see him on the ropes slipping shots, he's always in the centre of the ring and Pacquiao may be the only person with the footwork to keep him on the ropes

....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQYeSXpC244

On the ropes a fair bit there and looking amazing.

Anyone else think that De La Hoya perhaps was a little better earlier on due to him being naturally heavier, I mean he came in the ring close to 170, as opposed to Floyd at 152? At WW he maybe had a slightly better engine but he wasn't as physically strong as he became later on in his career, in and around the Trinidad fight you could say Oscar was at his best and I'm not sure that Oscar actually gives Floyd as much trouble as the later version of him did in a strange way.

Same as I'm not sure a prime Morales gives Maidana as much problems as the later near finished version did. Just the way things work out with the strange variables work out sometimes.

Mayweather went on to become a more accomplished Welterweight, a physically strong Welterweight at that and for all the apparent troubles he had against De La Hoya he lost 3 rounds at worst. His first fight in the division against somebody who was much much bigger than himself and I personally don't think any version of Oscar would ever beat him, Mayweather would just adapt and pull away down the stretch when regardless of age Oscar always faded.

For me De La Hoya is far too one dimensional to beat Mayweather at Welterweight, and he would have been less physically imposing than the one that weighed in at 170 for him later on.

de la Hoya and Mayweather would be a close fight at welterweight. De la Hoya would win the first half, Mayweather the second. The result would hinge on a couple of rounds, probably seeing Mayweather nick a decision. The de la Hoya that Mayweather fought was past it and plodding. A younger de la Hoya would be a much tougher assignment for Mayweather.

One fighter who I think would have a really good chance of beating Mayweather from a recent era that nobody really talks about these days would be Terry Norris.

Alright, so I'm cheating a bit. We were talking Welters, and Norris spent his career fighting at Light-Middle. But as his brother Orlin said, Norris was really (by modern weigh-in standards) just a Welterweight who didn't bother to dry himself out and cut weight, preferring to just stay comfortable at all times. He looked solid and relatively big fighting at Light-Middle, but made it to 149 lb for the catchweight in the Taylor fight, and regularly weighed in at 151 / 152 even when there wasn't a catchweight in place. If Mayweather took him on in a catchweight fight then I think he'd have all kinds of problems against Terry.

Pretty much a pick 'em, for me.

You can argue that it was before he grew into his real weight class but Oscar looked a much better, faster fighter at lower weights to me... Eg the genaro Hernandez, Raphael ruelas fights... Where he still carried a bang. I actually think he gives floyd a better fight at lightweight.

Weight advantage or whatever, its hard to argue floyd got a peak Oscar, and easier to argue that Oscar got a peak floyd.

88Chris05 wrote:One fighter who I think would have a really good chance of beating Mayweather from a recent era that nobody really talks about these days would be Terry Norris.

Alright, so I'm cheating a bit. We were talking Welters, and Norris spent his career fighting at Light-Middle. But as his brother Orlin said, Norris was really (by modern weigh-in standards) just a Welterweight who didn't bother to dry himself out and cut weight, preferring to just stay comfortable at all times. He looked solid and relatively big fighting at Light-Middle, but made it to 149 lb for the catchweight in the Taylor fight, and regularly weighed in at 151 / 152 even when there wasn't a catchweight in place. If Mayweather took him on in a catchweight fight then I think he'd have all kinds of problems against Terry.

Pretty much a pick 'em, for me.

Interesting thought Chris, Norris troubles were whisker related. Nobody outboxed a prime terry, and he could bang enough to keep you honest. Be a good fight that's for sure.

Wilfred Benitez is another incredibly tough fight for Mayweather.

milkyboy wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:One fighter who I think would have a really good chance of beating Mayweather from a recent era that nobody really talks about these days would be Terry Norris.

Alright, so I'm cheating a bit. We were talking Welters, and Norris spent his career fighting at Light-Middle. But as his brother Orlin said, Norris was really (by modern weigh-in standards) just a Welterweight who didn't bother to dry himself out and cut weight, preferring to just stay comfortable at all times. He looked solid and relatively big fighting at Light-Middle, but made it to 149 lb for the catchweight in the Taylor fight, and regularly weighed in at 151 / 152 even when there wasn't a catchweight in place. If Mayweather took him on in a catchweight fight then I think he'd have all kinds of problems against Terry.

Pretty much a pick 'em, for me.

Interesting thought Chris, Norris troubles were whisker related. Nobody outboxed a prime terry, and he could bang enough to keep you honest. Be a good fight that's for sure.

Probably because nearly all the good boxers he fought were shot or could knock him clean out?

Well there is something in that Alex. He certainly got the names on his cv when they were well past their sell by... But you do his abilities a slight disservice methinks!

Norris' record on paper doesn't really do him justice given his talent, Alex, and sure enough in that respect he can't see Mayweather with a telescope. But not sure how anyone could say with a straight face that Norris wouldn't be in with a pretty good shout against him based on size and styles.

Norris' biggest problem was that his chin was a bit vulnerable in the face of heavy artillery, but Mayweather just hasn't got that at the higher weights. He might hit hard enough to prevent a talented, super-fast and hard-hitting guy like Norris from simply running through him or walking him down non-stop, but not hard enough to really threaten Norris' whiskers or upset him too much.

As a technician, a peak Norris hasn't got too many peers in or around his weight class. Incredible hand speed, always bouncing and light as a feather on his feet and threw some of the most gorgeous combinations imaginable. He also had a really nasty streak in him and was a ruthless finisher once he smelled blood, the Leonard fight aside where he clearly carried him out of respect as the fight went on. I like Norris because he wasn't a nice guy in the ring, if that makes sense. Just had that edge about him, a bit like Conteh I guess.

Heavy hitters would always be a problem for Norris but a smaller, more technical fighter like Mayweather is the kind he used to eat for breakfast in his pomp. I don't even think it's a given that Norris would simply have to use his extra size and power to try and overwhelm Mayweather with his physicality either, to be honest. Even if it's a bit more of a stand-offish fight, Norris would give Floyd a fair bit to think about, as Judah did early doors (and this one comes with the caveat that Norris wasn't a six-round fighter like Zab).

Norris does share one trait with Zab though, in that he's a hot head who is prone to lapses in discipline, so there's every chance that Mayweather could walk away with a DQ win against a flustered Norris if things weren't going the way he wanted, but that aside I think Mayweather would have to drag up something very, very special to be sure of winning this one.

For me the hardest thing about this fight for Floyd will be what awful piece of jewellery to buy with his winnings.

So far he was given two easy options for a fight, Khan and Maidana and he took the easier option.

If this is a close fight it will show that Floyd is getting old rather than Maidana is good enough.

This is the sort of fighter he should be sparring to get ready for a fight......

Wow.

I said that? I was on the sauce that night - but thats a bold statement for one such as myself to make.

2/3 in HISTORY?

I think I meant that cleanly beat Mayweather almost every time. I must have.

It's alright, Jabby. Happens t' best of us. By the way everyone, I'd also like to point out that I was also on the sauce when I predicted that Bradley would win the Pacquiao rematch!

     

I was on a mix of crack and ether when I predicted Rhodes would beat Alvarez

I feel like I'm missing out by never having made a bad prediction   

I called Dawson to beat Stevenson. Given what we knew of the two fighters at the time, I don't think it was a horrid prediction, but I don't think anyone else's has gone wrong, so quickly, in such spectacular fashion