This'll go down well...

by Don Alfonso Fri 25 Apr 2014, 10:24

First topic message reminder :

"Thomond Park" no more...

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/munster-to-sell-the-naming-rights-for-thomond-park-1.1773070

by quinsforever Fri 25 Apr 2014, 14:41

Notch wrote:It's nicer when we can have a thread about Irish rugby without it being invaded by tedious trolls. Go and get your kicks elsewhere you big eejits.

this thread's a bit of a red rag to a bull though...cos its not about rugby, it's about money...and the OP knew it might attract some unwelcome attention Smile

by Scrumpy Fri 25 Apr 2014, 14:43

Maybe its time England was represented amongst the moderation team, someone who can dish it out a little too would be my pick. Wink

by Chunky Norwich Fri 25 Apr 2014, 14:44

Do the IRFU have a stake in Thomond Park?

by MunsterMac Fri 25 Apr 2014, 14:44

The dictionary definition of greed is 'wishing to possess more than what one needs'.

At present Munster don't possess more than their needs therefore cannot be considered greedy. Wink

by quinsforever Fri 25 Apr 2014, 14:45

MunsterMac wrote:The dictionary definition of greed is 'wishing to possess more than what one needs'.

At present Munster don't possess more than their needs therefore cannot be considered greedy.

well by that metric the PRL isnt greedy either Smile

the AP clubs on average lose money...

by quinsforever Fri 25 Apr 2014, 14:46

Scrumpy wrote:Maybe its time England was represented amongst the moderation team, someone who can dish it out a little too would be my pick.

LOL.

by MunsterMac Fri 25 Apr 2014, 14:48

I await your apology Notch, tedious trolls indeed!!! Wink

This'll go down well... - Page 2 1347041234

by Scrumpy Fri 25 Apr 2014, 14:51

You can't have a site when its one rule for one set of fans and one for another.

All Pro sport is greedy imo.

by Don Alfonso Fri 25 Apr 2014, 14:53

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Stop moaning.
Congratulate them for forming a better, fairer tournament.
Congratulate them for bringing more money into Northern Hemisphere rugby union.
Refrain from thinking private investment is bad for rugby, which has recently been disproved.

Start with those. If you manage all 4, I'll think of others.

Gosh, I was unaware a single ball had been kicked in the new tournament. How far behind am I exactly? Are we at the play-offs yet? Has it been brilliant?

by MunsterMac Fri 25 Apr 2014, 14:57

You can't have a site when its one rule for one set of fans and one for another.

All Pro sport is greedy imo.

Sounds to me like someone is getting worried teacher might bring out the leather strap.

Wink

by Chunky Norwich Fri 25 Apr 2014, 14:58

Don Alfonso wrote:

Gosh, I was unaware a single ball had been kicked in the new tournament. How far behind am I exactly? Are we at the play-offs yet? Has it been brilliant?

Typical snide cowardly comment.

It'll be better competition. And it'll make leagues like the pathetic Pro12 a tiny, tiny bit better. The commercial activities will be handled better. The administration won't be as incestuous.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Fri 25 Apr 2014, 14:58

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Stop moaning.

The focking "Irony meter" Just fell off the wall and broke. Laugh

by Don Alfonso Fri 25 Apr 2014, 15:04

quinsforever wrote:
Notch wrote:It's nicer when we can have a thread about Irish rugby without it being invaded by tedious trolls. Go and get your kicks elsewhere you big eejits.
this thread's a bit of a red rag to a bull though...cos its not about rugby, it's about money...and the OP knew it might attract some unwelcome attention

I'm the OP.

I'm an Ulster fan, and I have no interest in "unwelcome attention", thanks.

I rarely post on here these days, and I have zero interest in England/Ireland slanging. I stayed well away from the Jared Payne nonsense while a load of posters were revelling in making snide comments from all angles, and I have no hidden agenda. I spoke quite clearly about my own ambivalent feelings about the purported tendering of Ravenhill's name, to put this announcement in context.

So tell me what, in your vast experience of my posting history, convinces you I was angling for "unwelcome attention"?

by Chunky Norwich Fri 25 Apr 2014, 15:04

Munster have a deadline of next Wednesday to pay the first 6.9m Euros of their 9.9m loan to the IRFU - for the Thomond Park rennovation.

Let's hope they made it on time.

by Don Alfonso Fri 25 Apr 2014, 15:06

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Don Alfonso wrote:

Gosh, I was unaware a single ball had been kicked in the new tournament. How far behind am I exactly? Are we at the play-offs yet? Has it been brilliant?

Typical snide cowardly comment.

It'll be better competition. And it'll make leagues like the pathetic Pro12 a tiny, tiny bit better. The commercial activities will be handled better. The administration won't be as incestuous.

"Cowardly"? You'll have to explain that.

Jesus. I'm sorry I posted this now. What a load of dross.

by **Notch** Fri 25 Apr 2014, 15:08

Scrumpy wrote:That’s the spirit ME.

I await your apology Notch, tedious trolls indeed!!!

Just back in. Will hand out 24 hour bans to anyone I adjudge to be here simply to wind anyone up. Discuss the topic like grown ups, if you can, or don't bother. It's completely and totally clear cut. It's a topic which is put up for discussion thats been hijacked by fans who wish to pursue a vendetta against fans of another nation. The site needs to promote discussion and this behaviour is shutting sown discussion.

I'm not gonna sit around on this all day, so if discussion gets out of hand use the report post function.

Thanks.

by Scrumpy Fri 25 Apr 2014, 15:09

MunsterMac wrote:
You can't have a site when its one rule for one set of fans and one for another.

All Pro sport is greedy imo.

Sounds to me like someone is getting worried teacher might bring out the leather strap.

Those were the days Very Happy

by Knowsit17 Fri 25 Apr 2014, 15:12

Chunky Norwich wrote:
MunsterMac wrote:Tell me Chunky with the English and French 'expanding their income streams' (which of course in French terms means finding a nice rich Sugar Daddy with an uber-ego) what would you want the Irish teams to do?

Go quietly into the night and fade away??

Stop moaning.
Congratulate them for forming a better, fairer tournament. (Still can't comprehend how widening the margin between Franglos and everyone else constitutes fairness. Does the definition vary geographically?)
Congratulate them for bringing more money into Northern Hemisphere rugby union. (With the lion's share going straight to those NH nations that were richer to begin with)
Refrain from thinking private investment is bad for rugby, which has recently been disproved. (Since when did it become scientifically disproved? We haven't even seen the results yet. Again an arbitrary usage of certain terms)

Start with those. If you manage all 4, I'll think of others.

by MunsterMac Fri 25 Apr 2014, 15:13

Typical snide cowardly comment.

I think you meant 'flippant' or 'sarcastic'.

'Cowardly' would be someone making countless deliberately antagonistic remarks knowing there can't be any consequences in the real world.

And would this be the same pathetic Pro12 that has won 5 of the last 8 HCs humbling manys an English team along the way?

by **Notch** Fri 25 Apr 2014, 15:14

Guys, seriously- don't feed the trolls. Not worth it.

by Scrumpy Fri 25 Apr 2014, 15:20

I wish you were around when our clubs were taking all the flack about being Greedy.

At the end of the day it is what it is old fans will still call it Thomond Park, new fans will call it by its new name and the world will keep on turning Wink

by Scrumpy Fri 25 Apr 2014, 15:38

Ding dong! the thread is dead
'which old thread'
this old thread.

by quinsforever Fri 25 Apr 2014, 16:12

Don Alfonso wrote:
quinsforever wrote:
Notch wrote:It's nicer when we can have a thread about Irish rugby without it being invaded by tedious trolls. Go and get your kicks elsewhere you big eejits.
this thread's a bit of a red rag to a bull though...cos its not about rugby, it's about money...and the OP knew it might attract some unwelcome attention

I'm the OP.

I'm an Ulster fan, and I have no interest in "unwelcome attention", thanks.

I rarely post on here these days, and I have zero interest in England/Ireland slanging. I stayed well away from the Jared Payne nonsense while a load of posters were revelling in making snide comments from all angles, and I have no hidden agenda. I spoke quite clearly about my own ambivalent feelings about the purported tendering of Ravenhill's name, to put this announcement in context.

So tell me what, in your vast experience of my posting history, convinces you I was angling for "unwelcome attention"?

didnt mean that you were asking for anything. just that a title of a thread which is "this'll go down well..." which then goes into the topic and link you posted, is inevitably going to draw some comments from england and welsh club fans who have been on the receiving end of the "greedy and immoral" type comments.

OP to me means Original Post. ie, the title. Apologies if you thought i was making a personal comment. i didnt even look to see who had posted so its absolutely nothing to do with you or your posting history. Maybe it was just an unfortunate choice of Title if you weren't inviting this kind of debate.

by **Notch** Fri 25 Apr 2014, 16:14

You're generalising quins. The fact that other fans have made what you call 'greedy and immoral comments' vis a vis certain English clubs doesn't mean one who hasn't deserves to get his thread hijacked.

by quinsforever Fri 25 Apr 2014, 16:25

actually it was scrumpy who said greedy and immoral Wink

no-one has a right to not have their thread "hijacked". especially if its on-topic! commercial efforts of Sarries in various regards, or naming of thomond are all likely to attract money-related comments.

we all generalise notch. about toulon...sarries...prl...blazers. impossible to have actual discussion without making generalisations.

by **Notch** Fri 25 Apr 2014, 16:39

I mean you are generalising about other posters.

It's impossible to have actual reasonable discussion when people are pushing an agenda. Now there have been a lot of threads where it's just two sides banging on their drum, it's a peeing match and if thats how people want to spend their time fair enough. It tends to be the more tediously opinionated and the predictably spiteful of both camps. It takes both sides out of circulation on the other threads at that time which is the main reason why it goes ahead full steam.

What I take issue with is when people target that bitterness against posters who don't generally engage in all that crapola like Don because that needless unpleasantness ultimately just puts people off posting on the forum and thats the bottom line.

by Don Alfonso Fri 25 Apr 2014, 16:53

quinsforever wrote:
Don Alfonso wrote:
quinsforever wrote:
Notch wrote:It's nicer when we can have a thread about Irish rugby without it being invaded by tedious trolls. Go and get your kicks elsewhere you big eejits.
this thread's a bit of a red rag to a bull though...cos its not about rugby, it's about money...and the OP knew it might attract some unwelcome attention

I'm the OP.

I'm an Ulster fan, and I have no interest in "unwelcome attention", thanks.

I rarely post on here these days, and I have zero interest in England/Ireland slanging. I stayed well away from the Jared Payne nonsense while a load of posters were revelling in making snide comments from all angles, and I have no hidden agenda. I spoke quite clearly about my own ambivalent feelings about the purported tendering of Ravenhill's name, to put this announcement in context.

So tell me what, in your vast experience of my posting history, convinces you I was angling for "unwelcome attention"?
didnt mean that you were asking for anything. just that a title of a thread which is "this'll go down well..." which then goes into the topic and link you posted, is inevitably going to draw some comments from england and welsh club fans who have been on the receiving end of the "greedy and immoral" type comments.

OP to me means Original Post. ie, the title. Apologies if you thought i was making a personal comment. i didnt even look to see who had posted so its absolutely nothing to do with you or your posting history. Maybe it was just an unfortunate choice of Title if you weren't inviting this kind of debate.

This. And I don't want to sound all precious.

I don't bother reading any of the threads about the HEC replacement, because it became obvious to me six months ago that I wasn't going to get anything out of them. I don't know who has been slagging off whose clubs and for what. The thread title was more directed at Munster fans as an affectionate wind-up about how seriously they (rightly) take their history, but when MunsterMac engaged quite eanestly with it I responded in kind.

No worries. I just didn't realise what kind of slagging it would kick off.

by quinsforever Fri 25 Apr 2014, 17:05

you are well out of the HC discussions. so much rubbish was spouted, in the media, and on here. but it did get v heated at times. so i think the nerve endings are still a little raw. i know mine are.

by MunsterMac Fri 25 Apr 2014, 17:16

I never thought for a moment Don that the thread would take the turn it did.

I thought we would have a sensible discussion about the rights and wrongs of whether it was a good thing for the renaming to happen given history, tradition etc.

I didn't get too involved in the HC discussions but obviously some posters are still quite sensitive about the issue although what renaming Thomond park has to do with it I'm not sure.

I would only think it sensible if an English Club decided to rename their stadium for commercial reasons but that doesn't mean I agree with the PRL's stance on European club rugby.

by HammerofThunor Fri 25 Apr 2014, 18:07

Wow, that took a weird turn.

Thomand Park is what it is because the people in it not the name. That's not going to change.

by Don Alfonso Fri 25 Apr 2014, 18:33

Went to the pub there for one - nice vibe to come back to, in all honesty.

While I see the need for sponsorship, and do get weary of the constant ivory tower stuff about rugby and rugby fans being about "more than money", I had quite a knee-jerk reaction to the proposed renaming of Ravenhill. (Which will happen eventually, assuredly.) I think we will all accept sponsorship and renaming of stadiums. What would be a bridge too far for fans? What new financial initiative or deal could your club publish a press release about that would be a step too far? What precedents are there in other sports? Franchises in American Football relocate, I know, but they don't have the same history.

by Guest Fri 25 Apr 2014, 18:36

I didn't really like it when Lansdowne became Aviva, but I have become used to it now, and it has ceased to bother me. At the moment I'm not to hot on Ravenhill changing it's name, but I'm sure, as with Lansdowne, I would get used to it. Maybe it all depends on what name it would be changed with, but I like Geoff's suggestion. Tayto Stadium! Very much a treasured part of Ulster culture.

"I'm just heading up to the Tayto" Sounds right Very Happy

Hopefully Munster will get a great deal for any name change, and hopefully it is something that will sit well with the fans.

by Scrumpy Fri 25 Apr 2014, 18:38

BT Sport stadium! Wink

by HammerofThunor Fri 25 Apr 2014, 18:42

Scrumpy wrote:BT Sport stadium!

Bit slow there Scrumpy.

by Scrumpy Fri 25 Apr 2014, 18:45

The Adidas Arena

by Feckless Rogue Fri 25 Apr 2014, 19:31

I had no idea the English posters were so hurt by the PRL being called greedy. Sorry lads, but it wasn't aimed at ye personally.

On the topic, I really don't care in the slightest what the stadium is called. I just hope they play lots more brilliant games of rugby there.

And I don't think they actually have shops in Munster so I don't know what company will want to advertise itself by sponsoring the stadium. The "Pascal O'Flagherty's premium poteen" arena"?

by ME-109 Fri 25 Apr 2014, 22:01

Ronseal...

Does exactly what it says on the tin...park

by Portnoy's Complaint Sat 26 Apr 2014, 09:04

I still call Lansdowne Lansdowne, I call the AP the Jeff (to avoid the progressive tainting of rugby by commercialism).

I suspect I'll always call WR WR if the Tigers ever sold that naming right and Twickenham will be forever HQ on here because I'm lazy.

Thomond it is and Thomond it'll stay for me.

by The Boss Sat 26 Apr 2014, 09:44

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:I still call Lansdowne Lansdowne, I call the AP the Jeff (to avoid the progressive tainting of rugby by commercialism).

I suspect I'll always call WR WR if the Tigers ever sold that naming right and Twickenham will be forever HQ on here because I'm lazy.

Thomond it is and Thomond it'll stay for me.

This. Being from A GAA background half the big stadiums are renamed after sponsors. The athletic grounds will always be the athletic grounds, breffni park will always be the same, as well as Clones and Casement.
I'll always call Thomond by it's name.

However, it may be a case of the newer or younger fans coming in and they'll always know a ground as they first called it. The sponsorship must be coming about for some reason or I can't see them wasting their money.

by Thomond Sat 26 Apr 2014, 11:58

I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up being something "Toyota @ Thomond Park Stadium". I'd say they've looked to see how other countries and teams have kept the "name" and the brand linked together.

by geoff998rugby Sat 26 Apr 2014, 12:03

Chunky Norwich wrote:
ME-109 wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:How long ago did Munster sign Howlett? No English club could have signed him for the money he wanted.

They have always been rolling in Money, Re-naming your stadium is nothing but greed imo.

Rolling in it thats us...

I'm embarrassed for you.

Why? He's right. The top 3 Irish teams have twice the playing budgets of anyone else in the Celtic League.

Unless the Ospreys budget has been cut in half in the last 2 years that is incorrect

by Sin é Sat 26 Apr 2014, 12:24

How about Heineken @ Thomond Park now that Heineken are getting the elbow by the PRL Wink

by Sin é Sat 26 Apr 2014, 12:31

Article in Irish Times today suggest that Munster's budget is 1/3 of Toulon's.

Toulon’s operating budget is €21.8 million. At a guesstimate it’s about three to five times that of Munster, the latter centrally funded and underwritten by the IRFU. That gap will increase for a variety of reasons next season.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/heineken-cup/european-rugby-now-far-from-a-level-playing-field-for-irish-provinces-1.1774233

Interview with CJ Stander - says he didn't come to Munster because of the opportunity to play for Ireland. Said he wanted to move abroad and Munster came calling.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/heineken-cup/cj-stander-interview-i-need-to-play-the-best-game-of-my-life-against-toulon-1.1774283

One imagines he had easier conversations with his family. His father Jannie had played on the wing for the South Western Districts. “He’s a big Blue Bulls supporter, and he’s also a big Springbok supporter. I sat down with him and said: ‘There’s about 20 guys in front of me and Munster are giving me a chance.’ Playing for Ireland wasn’t even in the picture then. I just wanted to go overseas. He said: ‘I will support you full on. You go and do your best’.”

by **Notch** Sat 26 Apr 2014, 12:46

I don't really want him to play for Ireland truthfully- at least not after just 3 years. I don't want Payne or Strauss or Bundee Aki after just 3 years. 5, yeah but... it just doesn't feel right. It's too soon.

by geoff998rugby Sat 26 Apr 2014, 12:57

Notch wrote:I don't really want him to play for Ireland truthfully- at least not after just 3 years. I don't want Payne or Strauss or Bundee Aki after just 3 years. 5, yeah but... it just doesn't feel right. It's too soon.

+1

by Sin é Sat 26 Apr 2014, 12:58

Notch wrote:I don't really want him to play for Ireland truthfully- at least not after just 3 years. I don't want Payne or Strauss or Bundee Aki after just 3 years. 5, yeah but... it just doesn't feel right. It's too soon.

I don't like them being brought in for that specific reason, but I must say Rickhardt Straus made me change my mind when he was capped. It must have been incredible difficult for him to play against SA as well for his first cap and he has shown loyalty since then by staying with Leinster.

I had a grand aunt who demonstrated to me how you can be proud and loyal to two countries. She moved to the US when she was in her mid 40s (her brother had died and she went over to help his young family out) and became a US citizen. She loved Ireland (she used to come back to Ireland for about 6 months every year), but she also loved the US and it was a real proud day for her when she became a US citizen.

by **Notch** Sat 26 Apr 2014, 13:01

Oh yeah, I don't doubt it. Anyone who has lived abroad for a while always feels that identification with their home country and then their adopted country. And I want to be clear I will be right behind Payne if he is selected and I believe he will be as proud and determined as any of the other players we have in the squad.

It's not the individual players I have a problem with, its the rule on qualifying.

by LeinsterFan4life Sat 26 Apr 2014, 13:02

Stander shouldn't play for Ireland after any length of time. We have enough depth in the backrow so we dont need to be playing foreign players in the backrow.

by **Notch** Sat 26 Apr 2014, 13:09

I've argued about qualifying on residency and that it should be a longer period, but I also believe that there should be a limit on residency qualified players in a squad. I do believe they should impose a maximum of two. Because if you ever got to a place where there were multiple players it would really make a farce of the whole thing.

One player, thats not so bad. Two isn't great but its not a disaster. More than that and you're legitimately taking opportunities away from homegrown players.

by ME-109 Sat 26 Apr 2014, 13:18

This discussion always makes me think of Mafi when at Munster. Probably a guy who would have given his right arm to play for Ireland (disregarding the discussion as to whether he was good enough or not).

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