MEP Elections

First topic message reminder :

It's the European Parliament Elections on May 22nd, with UKIP hoping to gain the most seats after second place last time out, with Labour and Liberal Democrats looking to hold onto their seats.

But, does anyone care? Only one in three people voted in the last elections, but there seems to be more of a media interest, especially with the TV debates between Nigel Farage and Nick Clegg, which if you haven't seen are worth a watch. Could it be argued that by Labour and Conservatives not showing to the debates, that UKIP and LibDem will gain?

It seems that this year, there will be a higher turnout but will it be a significant amount? UKIP are certainly a more real opposition and will surely gain seats, with the opinion polls showing UKIP are likely to win.

rodders wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

rodders wrote:Other than their election posters depicting eu immigrants taking jobs or one of their own quitting and calling them racists?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2627408/The-party-deliberately-attracts-racist-vote-Ukip-poster-girl-tipped-Farage-rising-star-quits-terrifying-lurch-right.html

That poster isn't racist, and you wish for me to take the opinion of that girl seriously?

I don't want you to do anything - you have a democratic right to support who you want but if you think UKIP are anything but racists/facists in suits you are deluding yourself.

But yet again that is wrong on so many levels. And you will still be casting aspersions on the normally voting LibLabCon supporters who will be voting for UKIP in the Euro elections.

Really? A high % are demanding a referendum - when did they start demanding that then?

Where they demanding it under the last Labour government? or the previous decades we've been in the EU? Where they demanding it when there was considerable support to join the single currency during the early/mid naughties?

Or just since the right wing parties and media have been whipping up a frenzy about immigration?

rodders wrote:Really? A high % are demanding a referendum - when did they start demanding that then?

Where they demanding it under the last Labour government? or the previous decades we've been in the EU? Where they demanding it when there was considerable support to join the single currency during the early/mid naughties?

Or just since the right wing parties and media have been whipping up a frenzy about immigration?

Quite simply May 22nd

And who says turkey's won't vote for Christmas....

Yes Rodders because the way to get people to listen to you and maybe appreciate what your saying is to insult them.

Discriminations a horrible thing and yours is shining through here

Tbh the idea for a referendum has probably existed since at least 1997, when the Referendum Party ran. Probably did become more vocal after Lisbon though.

rodders wrote:Really? A high % are demanding a referendum - when did they start demanding that then?

Where they demanding it under the last Labour government? or the previous decades we've been in the EU? Where they demanding it when there was considerable support to join the single currency during the early/mid naughties?

Or just since the right wing parties and media have been whipping up a frenzy about immigration?

Well there was opposition to the common market in Britain before we joined, there was a referendum on EEC membership in 1975, Thatcher appeared to be taking us toward the exit door in 1990 before she was ousted, and UKIP was founded in the mid-90s.

Britain possibly leaving the European Union is not a new thing that has suddenly sprung up from nowhere, as you appear to believe.

Duty281 wrote:

rodders wrote:Really? A high % are demanding a referendum - when did they start demanding that then?

Where they demanding it under the last Labour government? or the previous decades we've been in the EU? Where they demanding it when there was considerable support to join the single currency during the early/mid naughties?

Or just since the right wing parties and media have been whipping up a frenzy about immigration?

Well there was opposition to the common market in Britain before we joined, there was a referendum on EEC membership in 1975, Thatcher appeared to be taking us toward the exit door in 1990 before she was ousted, and UKIP was founded in the mid-90s.

Britain possibly leaving the European Union is not a new thing that has suddenly sprung up from nowhere, as you appear to believe.

The UK will never leave the EU so deal with it.

Well hopefully we'll find out soon, they've been waffling about a referendum for ages and the quicker we get to vote for it the better.

If we stay in or out then at least we can all say it's what we've voted for :-D

Derbymanc wrote:Well hopefully we'll find out soon, they've been waffling about a referendum for ages and the quicker we get to vote for it the better.

If we stay in or out then at least we can all say it's what we've voted for :-D

Well if we look across the continent, according to YouGov, Eurosceptic parties are on the rise in six major European countries for these upcoming elections (France, Britain, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, and Finland).

Presently, in this country, British support for remaining in the EU is 39%, whilst getting out is 38%.

Close!

I actually think the UK would vote to stay. Time for a referendum though and put the matter to bed, in or out.

I used to want out, now I don't. Instead I want more powers passed back to the member states, a Euro - reformist if you will. Still do not agree with the Euro and never will.

When you live in NI, you realise you need all the help you can get....

Derbymanc wrote:Well hopefully we'll find out soon, they've been waffling about a referendum for ages and the quicker we get to vote for it the better.

If we stay in or out then at least we can all say it's what we've voted for :-D

   

That is all the majority want.


I would except either result.

skyeman wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:Well hopefully we'll find out soon, they've been waffling about a referendum for ages and the quicker we get to vote for it the better.

If we stay in or out then at least we can all say it's what we've voted for :-D

   

That is all the majority want.


I would except either result.

Hear, hear.

I don't believe it would be the end of it.....The polls for this are very close.......

53% in.........47% out.........Anything close to a dead heat will mean a reluctance to leave it........Because the No campaign If the figures are true would be so close to achieving their objective..

Derbymanc wrote:Well hopefully we'll find out soon, they've been waffling about a referendum for ages and the quicker we get to vote for it the better.

If we stay in or out then at least we can all say it's what we've voted for :-D

It is nonsense to have a referendum. If people want to leave the EU they can vote UKIP at the General Election in 2015, no need for a referendum.

UKIP may be on 15% now but make no mistake they'll be lucky to get 5% at the GE.....When all these right wingers worry about Miliband winning.

Regarding Ukip I sometimes wonder before people accuse them of being racist do they really investigate those claims or do they simply jump on a bandwagon of opinion?  

I know a few prospective councillors have said 1 or 2 things, but does this equate to the overall party being racist?  I don't think so.  And if some use this logic would they apply that to other groups and situations, like would you regard all muslims as terrorists?  I certainly hope not.

As far as I can see the main reason they even exist is due to the rise of the eu, and the main reason why they have become so popular is because the main parties haven't got a grip over mass immigration.  

Everytime I've seen a debate, like on question time when this question arises all the main parties talk of the benefits of immigration, but when the actual numbers come up its automatically dismissed or they keep talking about the benefits.  And that is the problem, they simply won't listen or willfully ignore legitamate concerns,  and condemn people with accusations of racism.  

That for me is the primary reason why ukip have continued to grow, they're tapping into peoples concerns, and the more the other parties continue to ignore the electorate the more the electorate will turn to ukip, or just not bother voting at all.

Well said, Volcanicash, and I agree completely.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:Well hopefully we'll find out soon, they've been waffling about a referendum for ages and the quicker we get to vote for it the better.

If we stay in or out then at least we can all say it's what we've voted for :-D

It is nonsense to have a referendum. If people want to leave the EU they can vote UKIP at the General Election in 2015, no need for a referendum.

Do you honestly think that practically any of the LibLabCon die-hards who have voted for one party all of their lives would switch to UKIP in a GE, even if they actually would like to exit the EU. The die-hards would not even do that for the upcomimg Euro elections. But a hell have a lot who are not such die-hards have for the Euros. {The Eurosceptics}, but most will return to their own party for the GE.

For the Euros, it is sending a message to their respective leaders.


And why the need? Because 70% of the GBP want a referendum, and it will not just disappear.

And the longer it takes, the worse it will get for LibLabCon.

Yes but CS doesn't so we don't need one   

  

And it's important to have a referendum even if you want to stay in, as a victory for the "in" vote will ensure greater stability for our country, because Britain could start planning her future in the EU without all the needless in/out talk, and it would do severe damage to the parties and politicians clamouring for the exit door.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:Well hopefully we'll find out soon, they've been waffling about a referendum for ages and the quicker we get to vote for it the better.

If we stay in or out then at least we can all say it's what we've voted for :-D

It is nonsense to have a referendum. If people want to leave the EU they can vote UKIP at the General Election in 2015, no need for a referendum.

+ 1

I think people would listen more on Europe if the parties sat down and started educating us properly.

I watched the green party's political broadcast yesterday and it seemed to basically rip the urine out of UKIP and the lib dems, and then went Europe yaaaaaay, they support green policies. That was it. Although i was asking the missus what was going on when it first started so probably missed something :-D

One of the biggest problems is SPIN, there's been that much of it the last few years (cheers labour who ramped it up to ridiculous level and seemed to revel in it,) that we don't know who to believe anymore.

@Rodders and CS
The reason we should have a referendum is that it was promised, if you cannot trust what the parties tell you then what is the point in voting in the first place. AND it can then put the issue to bed and give the country a proper way forward.

rodders wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:Well hopefully we'll find out soon, they've been waffling about a referendum for ages and the quicker we get to vote for it the better.

If we stay in or out then at least we can all say it's what we've voted for :-D

It is nonsense to have a referendum. If people want to leave the EU they can vote UKIP at the General Election in 2015, no need for a referendum.

+ 1  

No referendum = no stability.

Volcanicash wrote:Regarding Ukip I sometimes wonder before people accuse them of being racist do they really investigate those claims or do they simply jump on a bandwagon of opinion?  

I know a few prospective councillors have said 1 or 2 things, but does this equate to the overall party being racist?  I don't think so.  And if some use this logic would they apply that to other groups and situations, like would you regard all muslims as terrorists?  I certainly hope not.

That's a nonsensical statement. Islam is a religion, UKIP is a political organisation - one with xenophobic and racist policies. That doesn't make everyone who votes for them a conscious racist, many are just misguided and misinformed or looking to make a statement to the mainstream parties.  

A better analogy would have been to compare UKIP to the Taliban. Do I believe everyone involved with the Taliban is a terrorist or terrorist supporter? - yes, either that or they are brainwashed or afraid not to. UKIP aren't a million miles away in my opinion.

Their political strategy revolves mainly around tapping into and exasperating working class peoples fears about their jobs and services using immigrants as scapegoats for their declining living standards.

The main beneficiaries of the UK leaving the EU that I can see are the large banks and financial services, big employers who will be able to increase hours and reduce working conditions without regulation from Brussels.

It is total nonsense to believe that Britain doesn't make a net gain, socially and economically from the free movement of goods, people and services in the EU. Utter rubbish. The Costa del sol is full of ex-pats for example should we take them back?

Duty281 wrote:

rodders wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:Well hopefully we'll find out soon, they've been waffling about a referendum for ages and the quicker we get to vote for it the better.

If we stay in or out then at least we can all say it's what we've voted for :-D

It is nonsense to have a referendum. If people want to leave the EU they can vote UKIP at the General Election in 2015, no need for a referendum.

+ 1  

No referendum = no stability.

No UKIP/Tory spin = no instability = no referendum = stability.

Or you could always say no labour/green party spin = proper referendum = stability

Quite interested to see if UKIP will get more votes than the 2009 EU elections in Scotland.

Then they finished 6th with 5.2 of the vote, even behind the Green party. Results were then: Scottish National Party 29.1,
Labour 20.8
Conservative 16.8
Liberal Democrats 11.5
Green Party 7.3

But the Lib Dems vote by all accounts will be decimated, where will they go?

Derbymanc wrote:Yes but CS doesn't so we don't need one   

  

  

Aye, so frig the 70% who do  in favour 0f the 22% who do not and the 8% who do not care.  

Just a mattter of time.

Which of their policies are racist rodders??? I'm genuinely interested in this as from what i've read they want us out of Europe and to tighten the borders. Both policies that at one time or another the other parties have also said.

If UKIP are gaining votes then it does seem like they're saying something that resonates with the general public which includes all of us.

Personally i wish they'd make it law that if a political party that makes promises they have to stick with it, at least you'd know then what you were voting for   

They are targeting the anti-Immigrant faction Derby...Just look at the posters and the leaflets......Scaremongering about British nationals losing their jobs etc....The politics of fear.

UKIP's vote - Protest voters, Disenchanted BNP types, right wing haters......plus some lefties that are too stupid as to learn what this group are all about........

I disagree with that Truss, yes they're campaigning on what for many is a valid fear, same as Labour spouting that the conservatives are just there for the wealthy and Cons saying labour is just there for the welfare lot.

To talk about any other nationality has become a terrible thing to do in Britain lately and flinging the racist tag at anyone that dares do it does not help.

If they're really that wrong, the other parties need to stop spinning things and shouting racist and educate us all with facts.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:They are targeting the anti-Immigrant faction Derby...Just look at the posters and the leaflets......Scaremongering about British nationals losing their jobs etc....The politics of fear.

UKIP's vote - Protest voters, Disenchanted BNP types, right wing haters......plus some lefties that are too stupid as to learn what this group are all about........

The worst leaflet i have seen recently is from a labour candidate against her Asian Tory counterpart "she is not one of us"

After 18 years of the Tories which all ended in SLEAZE followed by 13 years of new Labour who are basically more Tories which ended in near bankruptcy and cost thouands of British lives, the last four years of a pathetic coalition which is starting to turn in & on itself, can you expect UKIP voters to be happy about this when they regard the political class as self serving nest feathering out of touch uninterested idiots.

And many still vote for them. Are they the real stupid ones.

I'm not suggesting that the established parties aren't crap.......

I'm suggesting that UKIP know where the bread and butter market is...........

It's the Britain is full types and the Immigrants are to blame for everything types....

rodders wrote:

The main beneficiaries of the UK leaving the EU that I can see are the large banks and financial services, big employers who will be able to increase hours and reduce working conditions without regulation from Brussels.

I

It's a shame that a lot of people don't realise that the EU creates laws that protect us as a society. The maximum number of hours you can be forced to work in any week, working conditions at work, controlling pesticides, food labelling so companies cannot mislabel foods as low in fat when it is not, competition law to stop cartels forming and price fixing their products, a host of Human Rights laws which have protected the disabled and the most vulnerable in our society and the abolition of the death penalty.

UKIP like to make a fuss that the EU is creating too many laws but when you look at the laws that are passed they are all there for our own benefit.

UKIP do know where there bread and butter lies, and it's the issues that people generally want to discuss.

It isn't the types that you say though and to suggest that shows that you have a small minded view on it.

The public would like a discussion on these things, the other parties are ignoring it, UKIP are not, hence why they're growing (slightly.) If the actual parties would discuss it a proper debate could be held instead of people throwing insults.

Oh and Britain is getting full, if a hotel has a view rooms left it's deemed to be nearly full or 'getting full'. If it continues to take people in and the amenieties aren't enough for everyone, people complain. That's what's happening to britain, there isn't enough housing for everyone, not enough schools (particularly at the childrens level etc etc,)

That's not immigrants fault though, it's the countries for not anticipating this and building enough schools/hospitals/houses etc and not employing enough people required. Oh and allowing the housing market to spiral has ruined rents.

skyeman wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:Well hopefully we'll find out soon, they've been waffling about a referendum for ages and the quicker we get to vote for it the better.

If we stay in or out then at least we can all say it's what we've voted for :-D

It is nonsense to have a referendum. If people want to leave the EU they can vote UKIP at the General Election in 2015, no need for a referendum.

Do you honestly think that practically any of the LibLabCon die-hards who have voted for one party all of their lives would switch to UKIP in a GE, even if they actually would like to exit the EU. The die-hards would not even do that for the upcomimg Euro elections. But a hell have a lot who are not such die-hards have for the Euros. {The Eurosceptics}, but most will return to their own party for the GE.

For the Euros, it is sending a message to their respective leaders.


And why the need? Because 70% of the GBP want a referendum, and it will not just disappear.

And the longer it takes, the worse it will get for LibLabCon.

Well then they obviously don't value a referendum on the EU that much if they can't change which name they put the cross next to at the ballot box.

The SNP were the party to vote for if you wanted a referendum in Scotland, the SNP won the scottish elections and thus a referendum is about to happen.

If you want a referendum in the UK vote UKIP, if they win the election they can force a referendum. Annoys me so much when people vote for a political party who are in favour of the EU and then complain that they haven't given them a referendum.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I'm not suggesting that the established parties aren't crap.......

I'm suggesting that UKIP know where the bread and butter market is...........

It's the Britain is full types and the Immigrants are to blame for everything types....

A total generalistion.... Most just want our own idiots to make our own mistakes. At least we can blame ourselves. And not the suits in Brussels.

And those are not good reasons for some to be concerned? The vast majority of the UKIP increase have come from LibLabCon voters, so those so called "TYPES" were already in the ranks.

Personally, i have only switched because i, like most want a referndum and at least be given the chance of an EU exit.

  I agree with you CS, people should stop voting for the party and start voting on the policies they are pushing.

And stop whinging if you don't vote (unless your not old enough)

Derbymanc wrote:  I agree with you CS, people should stop voting for the party and start voting on the policies they are pushing.

And stop whinging if you don't vote (unless your not old enough)

I vote labour but I made sure at the last london mayor elections that I would look at each partys policies before voting instead of just voting for Labour. I ended up voting for Ken Livingstone (labour) anyway because I agreed with his policy of bringing back EMA.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

skyeman wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:Well hopefully we'll find out soon, they've been waffling about a referendum for ages and the quicker we get to vote for it the better.

If we stay in or out then at least we can all say it's what we've voted for :-D

It is nonsense to have a referendum. If people want to leave the EU they can vote UKIP at the General Election in 2015, no need for a referendum.

Do you honestly think that practically any of the LibLabCon die-hards who have voted for one party all of their lives would switch to UKIP in a GE, even if they actually would like to exit the EU. The die-hards would not even do that for the upcomimg Euro elections. But a hell have a lot who are not such die-hards have for the Euros. {The Eurosceptics}, but most will return to their own party for the GE.

For the Euros, it is sending a message to their respective leaders.


And why the need? Because 70% of the GBP want a referendum, and it will not just disappear.

And the longer it takes, the worse it will get for LibLabCon.

Well then they obviously don't value a referendum on the EU that much if they can't change which name they put the cross next to at the ballot box.

The SNP were the party to vote for if you wanted a referendum in Scotland, the SNP won the scottish elections and thus a referendum is about to happen.

If you want a referendum in the UK vote UKIP, if they win the election they can force a referendum. Annoys me so much when people vote for a political party who are in favour of the EU and then complain that they haven't given them a referendum.

That is not quite correct about the SNP, people put them in power because the big three were doing such a poor job. Although that was the parties aim it was not the sole reason for their rise.

2003 - 23%

2007 -33%

2011 - 45%


A lot of SNP voters will  be voting NO and likewise many Conservative/Labour supporters will vote YES.

The sole reason for UKIP's rise is the EU.

Not the same thing at all with UKIP and the SNP-YET.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

rodders wrote:

The main beneficiaries of the UK leaving the EU that I can see are the large banks and financial services, big employers who will be able to increase hours and reduce working conditions without regulation from Brussels.

I

It's a shame that a lot of people don't realise that the EU creates laws that protect us as a society. The maximum number of hours you can be forced to work in any week, working conditions at work,  controlling pesticides, food labelling so companies cannot mislabel foods as low in fat when it is not, competition law to stop cartels forming and price fixing their products, a host of Human Rights laws which have protected the disabled and the most vulnerable in our society and the abolition of the death penalty.

UKIP like to make a fuss that the EU is creating too many laws but when you look at the laws that are passed they are all there for our own benefit.

I agree entirely and its the failure of the middle and middle left parties to give a clear and concise argument in favour of remaining in the EU and the benefits. In fact I think Cameron and Osborne will argue these points but not until post election.

Lets face it the right wing tory back benchers want the EU out so they can turn the UK into a low tax, low wage economy without interference from Brussels to protect workers rights and living standard and providing regulation for the financial services.

UKIP just want immigrants out but that's not racist of course.

rodders wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

rodders wrote:

The main beneficiaries of the UK leaving the EU that I can see are the large banks and financial services, big employers who will be able to increase hours and reduce working conditions without regulation from Brussels.

I

It's a shame that a lot of people don't realise that the EU creates laws that protect us as a society. The maximum number of hours you can be forced to work in any week, working conditions at work,  controlling pesticides, food labelling so companies cannot mislabel foods as low in fat when it is not, competition law to stop cartels forming and price fixing their products, a host of Human Rights laws which have protected the disabled and the most vulnerable in our society and the abolition of the death penalty.

UKIP like to make a fuss that the EU is creating too many laws but when you look at the laws that are passed they are all there for our own benefit.

I agree entirely and its the failure of the middle and middle left parties to give a clear and concise argument in favour of remaining in the EU and the benefits. In fact I think Cameron and Osborne will argue these points but not until post election.

Lets face it the right wing tory back benchers want the EU out so they can turn the UK into a low tax, low wage economy without interference from Brussels to protect workers rights and living standard and providing regulation for the financial services.  

UKIP just want immigrants out but that's not racist of course.

Not very good on facts are you Rodders!

It's the small minded that like to label others to deflect away from their own closed minds.

skyeman wrote:
Not very good on facts are you Rodders!

I don't know why don't you try hitting me with some ... like for a start how a referendum and subsequent withdrawal from the EU is going benefit the UK and what policies UKIP have other than capping EU immigration that would counter accusations of being a racist and xenophobic party?

rodders wrote:

skyeman wrote:
Not very good on facts are you Rodders!

I don't know why don't you try hitting me with some ... like for a start how a referendum and subsequent withdrawal from the EU is going benefit the UK and what policies UKIP have other than capping EU immigration that would counter accusations of being a racist and xenophobic party?

UKIP will never get power, so polices are an irrelevance.

They want the other paties to give the majority of the electorate what they want. EU REFERENDUM.

http://www.ukip.org/issues

Labour policies - http://www.yourbritain.org.uk/agenda-2015/policy-commissions

Conservative - http://www.conservatives.com/plan.aspx

UKIP - http://www.ukip.org/issues

Lib Dems - http://www.libdems.org.uk/issues

skyeman wrote:

rodders wrote:

skyeman wrote:
Not very good on facts are you Rodders!

I don't know why don't you try hitting me with some ... like for a start how a referendum and subsequent withdrawal from the EU is going benefit the UK and what policies UKIP have other than capping EU immigration that would counter accusations of being a racist and xenophobic party?

UKIP will never get power, so polices are an irrelevance.

They want the other paties to give the majority of the electorate what they want.  EU REFERENDUM.

So you think a parties policies are irrelevant when it comes to voting for them?

You'd vote for a party to represent your interests in Europe without actually knowing what issues they plan to raise if they get seats?

If the majority of the electorate want a referendum then they will vote for a party in the next general election which aims to deliver one as part of their manifesto.

This is a European election - electing UK representatives to represent Britain in Europe, and nothing whatsoever to do with holding a referendum on Europe.

Thanks Derbymanc. From the Lib Dems:




Bringing back control to the immigration system by introducing exit checks, so the Government can keep track of who is leaving the country and identify people who are overstaying their visa.

We are rebuilding trust in the system. We have helped cut immigration by a third and ensured that highly-skilled immigrants can help us build a stronger economy.

Ha bloody ha.