Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

Instead of a protest vote, then its better to spoil your ballot.

Ukip are dangerous because some people actually believe what they say, and they target the middle classes in areas of law multi culturalism - ( if thats a word). And as gets shown every now and then, the Councillors they put up have been shown as a bit racist. But its easy for them to make grand statements, because realistically they will not get voted in and have to back up the statements they have made.  

Have no fear, the nutters are getting kicked out at regular intervals.

And some people may believe what they say for, a lot of the time, it's common sense.

[super_realist]

I think a fit, fast, physically strong Le Tiss would have been comparable to Bergkamp.

Similar imagination and ball skills, just Bergkamp was every bit the athlete that Le Tissier wasn't.
Shame, like Gazza, a waste of talent.

[mystiroakey]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dJfurjUOJLc

[westisbest]

Another guy with a lot of potential, who was very skill full, who I loved watching play, was Lee Trundle.

looked like he didn't take to care of himself though.

[super_realist]

Gascoignes reputation wasn't enhanced by playing for Rangers in one of Europes worst leagues, then by pointless spells at Everton and Middlesborough.

[mystiroakey]

SR you always say more English should get varied experience. He played in England,  Scotland and Italy and shone everywhere.

Back in them days playing for an OF club wasn't really a step down..

His problems stemmed from injury just after he hit top top world class level

[super_realist]

That's right Oakey, I do say that, and to give credit where it's due, Gascoigne did at least have a spell in Italy which was moderately successful, and probably would have been more so were it not for the leg break prior to it.
However, Rangers, Boro, Everton at the time were not at the time teams one would be all that proud of having on your CV. Even Jonathan Woodgate can claim to have been A Real Madrid player after all.

[TopoftheChops]

I think Bubba will win another major this year

[Davie]

Gazza was never really world class. He had the potential to be but blew it. One top quality nine month period does not make a world class player (see Frank McAvennie)

He could have been so much but a mixture of injuries, suspension and a destructive personality means we can only dream what he may have been

[mystiroakey]

Gazza was never really world class. He had the potential to be but blew it. One top quality nine month period does not make a world class player (see Frank McAvennie)

He could have been so much but a mixture of injuries, suspension and a destructive personality means we can only dream what he may have been

So you agree he was world class for a year then.... Or don't you????

[mystiroakey]

I think Bubba will win another major this year

Why not although he looks more suited to the masters only.

But the open could be a good place for him. If he is on song he can play any shot in the book.. Well bar a straight one!!!

[Davie]

No I said he had a top quality nine month period. Does that make world class? He had the POTENTIAL to be but did he ever really reach it?

[mystiroakey]

He was one 100% world class at his peak time. Unbelievable cm for club and country.

Would have been picked in any world squad at that time. Sad it was so short and blighted by injury

[mystiroakey]

And please let's not start a symatic argument.

[mystiroakey]

Look at it like this. If Suraez gets injured tomorrow and never recreates his last season it won't mean he wasnt world class for that period.

[Davie]

It's not a symatic (sic) argument. It's just fact. Sad it was so short but to blame it just on injury is naive.

9 months is not enough to make world class. If Sanogo had scored the injury time winner for the gooners yesterday, would that make him world class? You may think that is a fatuous argument but where do you draw the line? Is 9 months enough to make world class? In your opinion yes. What about 6 months? What about 3 months? What about a week? Or 20 minutes? Where do YOU draw the line?

For 9 months, Frank McAvennie was unplayable. For less than that, so was Andy Carroll and probably a gazillion other players. Were they world class?

I'm struggling to think of a true world class English player - probably since Shearer.

[mystiroakey]

Naive?

No just ommitance. Injury was the key problem. We all know his issues. This place becomes to gossipy for me sometimes. I would hallways rather discuss career merits over weight or personality when it comes to sports people.

Suggesting Andy Carroll was a kin to gazza is unforgivable Davie. It truly is mate.

Others that were world class ( would get in a world squad) for a given time in there carrer

Owen, fowler, shearer, A Cole, JT, Rio, becks, Rooney.

Probally missed a few out. But none were close to Gaza at peak.

[super_realist]

Come on Oakey, Beckham was NEVER world class.
World Class at being marketed, world class at being hyped, World Class at getting in the paper, but not an actual World Class player.

He did have a brilliant career, played for some excellent clubs and made the clubs a great deal of money, seems a very nice bloke etc etc.
Good dead ball player, and worked hard. I've seen plenty players who were just as capable from a free kick, and maybe even better.

Rooney? Come on. Perhaps if we're talking about 2-3 games strung together, but Davie is right, you have to draw the line, and I reckon being world class is not being a flash in the pan or dining out on past glories (like Owen did his entire career) There has to be a reasonable period of sustained performance.

David Howell was a world class golfer for about 2/3rds of a season. Could we describe him as a World Class golfer though?

Strange that given the rather suspect list you gave, you omitted perhaps the one English player who has come closest to being World Class in the last 15 years. Paul Scholes. Club, Country and for a sustained period of time. Even if he was an ugly ginge.

[mystiroakey]

I haven't stated he is was a world class player. I statd he was world class for a period in his carrer. I have to admit I don't think either of you realise how good Gaza was .

Beckham was certainly right up there as a squad option at peak and would have graced a world cup squad.

I am not comparing these players to zidane or Ronaldo or Pele.

The definition of world class is used within the football world to suggest that player would get in a world squad at the time. Gaza was no all time great. But at peak he would have. Just like becks would have.

Carroll. Well that is nonsesne.

All the players I have picked had. A sustained period of excellence. I take it you don't watch much football SR if you think the best roony has done is over 2 games.

Scholes would be really tough to pick in a world squad as there are better cm's and better play makers. He was half and half. He would have struggled to ever get in a world squad.

But players like Cole, Gaza and becks are straight in at peak as they offer either a different option or a first team option like Cole.

[Diggers]

Rooney has been good for a long time, his stats in the Premier league compare with anyone in terms of goals and assists.
He's a world class footballer, as were Gerrard, Lampard, Ferdinand and Cole. Doesn't mean they'd make a world 11 but they've been around the top of the game for a very long time.

[mystiroakey]

Anyway looking forward . would any of today's England players get in a world squad.

Maybe baines only..

Rooney although had a top season is up against insane talent at present so would probally just miss out.

[super_realist]

I haven't stated he is was a world class player. I statd he was world class for a period in his carrer. I have to admit I don't think either of you realise how good Gaza was .

Beckham was certainly right up there as a squad option at peak and would have graced a world cup squad.

I am not comparing these players to zidane or Ronaldo or Pele.

The definition of world class is used within the football world to suggest that player would get in a world squad at the time. Gaza was no all time great. But at peak he would have. Just like becks would have.

Carroll. Well that is nonsesne.

All the players I have picked had. A sustained period of excellence. I take it you don't watch much football SR if you think the best roony has done is over 2 games.

Scholes would be really tough to pick in a world squad as there are better cm's and better play makers. He was half and half. He would have struggled to ever get in a world squad.

But players like Cole, Gaza and becks are straight in at peak as they offer either a different option or a first team option like Cole.

Rooney goes in peaks and long troughs of abject ordinariness. If he sustained what he did on his European debut over a season, I would agree, but he's too erratic in his form.

[mystiroakey]

I just new it would turn into a symatis argument about what world class means...

And you SR love that argument. Anyway for me Gaza was the best English talent of my generation.

Cole the most consistent and most likely to get in world cup 11's

The thing about Gaza though when we discuss him. The memories are all from him wearing an  england shirt. For Gerrard , scholes and lamps its all about wearing there club shirts.

Gaza performed at international level almost every single game.

So from an england POV . Gaza all day long . from an English player at club I would probally say scholes was pretty close to topping the pile.

The loss united have had due to losing him is very telling.

[Diggers]

I think Scholes was just a tad overrated personally. Never that great for England and for my money he was never the best player in any Man Utd side he played for, never the main man.

[mystiroakey]

As I said I would never have called scholes world class. But being world class is about what competition you have in your position.

You are right. He never performed that well for england. Whereas Gaza did. But that position that united have lost is a huge hole to fill. Due to the fact united have won so much with scholes being an integral cog in that wheel I still think at club level he was right up there.

But watching england playing real football in the 90's was great and it was all due to Gaza . the toughest position to play in in football . it makes such a difference when you have a player like that.

[JAS]

I'm with Oakey on this one, putting his off field issues aside and all the frustrations about what might have been if he'd looked after himself better and who for and where he played, for me Gascoigne most certainly WAS world class by ANY semantic connotation of the term "world class".
While I'm at it, what is the specific "9 month" period that his potential world class was allegedly limited to? was it in 1990? 1991? 1996? when?

In the golf world, what defines world class? winning a major? Winning a certain amount of tour events? reaching the top 10/top 5 of the world rankings and staying there for how long?

[Roller_Coaster]

'Keepers anyone? I'd suggest Shilton and Seaman as slotting in as world class for both club and country for a sustained period.

The problem with 'keepers is you tend only to remember their mistakes which tend to be high profile cases, while their skills are primarily "getting in the way" of the ball rather than making the ball do amazing things which is never as aesthetically pleasing as raking passes, sublime strikes into the top corner or artful gliding past opponents.

[mystiroakey]

I'm with Oakey on this one, putting his off field issues aside and all the frustrations about what might have been if he'd looked after himself better and who for and where he played, for me Gascoigne most certainly WAS world class by ANY semantic connotation of the term "world class".
While I'm at it, what is the specific "9 month" period that his potential world class was allegedly limited to? was it in 1990? 1991? 1996? when?

In the golf world, what defines world class? winning a major? Winning a certain amount of tour events? reaching the top 10/top 5 of the world rankings and staying there for how long?

Exactly he was right up there early 90's and then even after his leg break he got that form back in 96 for England.

The way he played v Switzerland, Holland, Germany and Scotland(that goal!!) was certainly right up there.

[mystiroakey]

I dont think we can use the term world class when it comes to golfers though.

You are mainly measured on major wins.. Which puts ex world number ones like Lee and Loooke out of contention.

I like to keep the term world class meaning and only meaning that the player would get in a 'world' squad in a team game.

So how does that relate to golf-

The open championship holder? the number one golfer? the last major winner?, the pga tour money winner?.

Can it only be one player at any given time!

Or is it Poultry- who would be first pick in any ryder cup team   

[Diggers]

Poultry is a world class knob jockey if that counts.....

[gaelgowfer]

This is about the Scottish referendum.

This morning I received a card from the (supposedly neutral   ) Yes campaign asking me for my name, address, email and mobile number (just in case ... presumably ... I win an iPad for returning said card to them.  )

On that card, I was also asked the following two questions ...

1)  Using a scale of 1 to 10, can you please say where you are on this scale regarding Scotland becoming independent?

2)  Should Scotland be an independent country?

I don't know why they didn't come right out and ask me how I was going to vote.  

[super_realist]

I'll be voting with a middle finger right in Salmonds fat face Gael.

[Diggers]

How's the feeling up there re the vote. Have to say I'm now getting a feeling more people down here can see a Yes vote coming.
There is no doubt Cameron et al have handled this appallingly badly..it's almost as if they don't want Scotland to be part of the Union...hmmmm....

[super_realist]

THe polls still (and always have said) that the Yes campaign is failing fortunately. It's consistently about 7-10% behind.

Lots of business saying they'd be questioning staying here and Fat Salmonds inability to confirm EU membership or what he'd do with not having the £ isn't doing the heart attack in waiting much good.

However it seems though is that the more working class the community, the more in favour of independence. NOt surprising that that's also where you find the most anti-english bigots.
SO if you live in a council estate in Glasgow, chances are you are probably thinking that the Yes campain is going well

[Diggers]

I suppose on the plus side, if Scotland does become independent it becomes a lot cheaper to go abroad for a holiday....

[super_realist]

It'll be another bankrupt backwater like Ireland Diggers.

[gaelgowfer]

Yep Diggers, I get the same feeling about Cameron.  Still, perhaps he feels keeping a low profile is the least damaging option.

The Yes campaign has yet to win a poll (we're all sick of the bloody things up here) and although the 'Yesses' started to close the gap, it now seems to have widened again in favour of the No camp.  Not wide enough though to take a 'No' win for granted.

Salmond has completely clammed up on answering any of the questions that a voting population needs to know in order to make a decision.  We're supposed to take a leap of faith and that any criticism of his campaign is just scaremongering.  Strewth ... I am so angry that we've been put into such a parlous situation.

[super_realist]

Gael, I bet you're looking forward to seeing Fat Salmond and Lego Hair's faces when the No vote is victorious, I think it will finish him off.

[navyblueshorts]

It's simply an anti-Tory vote packaged as some sort of balony about how great it would for Scotland to be independent. What a mature way to go about it.
Can't wait for the day after the damned vote but even then, whatever the outcome, there'll be the small minded pissants banging on about something one way or the other.

[gaelgowfer]

Scotland needs another strong party to stand against the SNP.  Otherwise this 'exercise' will be repeated every twenty years or so ... assuming of course they don't get it this time!

As for Salmond and Sturgeon, they haven't an ounce of integrity between them.  There is no plan B but they just won't admit it or even acknowledge the question.  Despicable!

[super_realist]

It's simply an anti-Tory vote packaged as some sort of balony about how great it would for Scotland to be independent. What a mature way to go about it.
Can't wait for the day after the damned vote but even then, whatever the outcome, there'll be the small minded pissants banging on about something one way or the other.

Almost certainly there will be conspiracy theories about some sort of cover-up when they fail.

[Diggers]

I can see the anti Tory logic. Lets face it, whether its universal or not a lot of Scots see Scotland as a separate entity or at least would like it to be. Scotland is basically also more of a socialist country by and large.
So if you happen to be a Scot who with these beliefs the fact that you are largely ruled from Westminster by a Tory party that is about as popular in Scotland as herpes would be pretty annoying.
That doesn't mean I agree with a lot of the politics that's actually happening, but that element of it for me, well I can see the point.

[gaelgowfer]

Diggers ... well, I certainly think it's fair to say that a Tory PM hasn't helped the 'No' campaign! 

[super_realist]

The striking thing about the lack of confidence that Salmond has is that he already knew there wasn't support for it, so he put the vote 2 years plus into the future, hoping that sentiment would change, doesn't appear to be though.
He could have called a referendum far quicker.

[mystiroakey]

Who is everyone backing for the World cup?

I am going for 3 outsiders( Chile, Holland and England)

[Bob_the_Job]

It'll be another bankrupt backwater like Ireland Diggers.

Not strictly true. Ireland has paid back the EU bailout money (the only country in the Eurozone to do so), and this in turn has led to it securing more favourable borrowing terms than the UK. SEE HERE

[mystiroakey]

Bob you do realise that it wasnt just the eurozone that bailed Ireland out right.

The majority of debt Ireland is and was in is from the UK and we kept interest rates down even though the credit rating didn't warrant it.

and after reading that article it sounds like BS anyway. I wouldnt take any of it with a pinch of salt- its just YES VOTE propaganda

[Bob_the_Job]

Indeed, and the UK itself is in debt. But the point is, Ireland is not bankrupt - just correcting our hyperbole happy friend.

[super_realist]

It'll be another bankrupt backwater like Ireland Diggers.

Not strictly true.  Ireland has paid back the EU bailout money (the only country in the Eurozone to do so), and this in turn has led to it securing more favourable borrowing terms than the UK.  SEE HERE

Did I miss something? THat article only says that they are paying less on their debt, I didn't see anything about them paying back their bailout money.

[mystiroakey]

That article touches on nothing real BOB.  Its just trying to make out that if Scotland went on its own it would be ok even if it had its own currency using Ireland as an example- we all know it may be- but we will all be worse off as a result. People with a lack of understanding might buy into it- But they wont have a clue about what any of the figures really and truly represent.

[super_realist]

Would we lose all our potatoes too?

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