Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

Instead of a protest vote, then its better to spoil your ballot.

Ukip are dangerous because some people actually believe what they say, and they target the middle classes in areas of law multi culturalism - ( if thats a word). And as gets shown every now and then, the Councillors they put up have been shown as a bit racist. But its easy for them to make grand statements, because realistically they will not get voted in and have to back up the statements they have made.  

Have no fear, the nutters are getting kicked out at regular intervals.

And some people may believe what they say for, a lot of the time, it's common sense.

[incontinentia]

Poor Athletico

[McLaren]

Would anyone who voted UKIP admit it in public?

[super_realist]

Would anyone admit to voting for ANY party Mac?

[pedro]

I admit to not voting.

[Diggers]

Would anyone admit to voting for ANY party Mac?

Considering your hatred for the SNP and Salmond you'd surely have to be mad not to have voted Super?

[Diggers]

Thoroughly depressing re UKIP. There is real hatred in political views in England in particular at the moment, on both sides of the spectrum.
Can't see too much reasoned debate taking place in the next year or so.

[gaelgowfer]

I voted UKIP!  It was the only route that could be taken to get the message across that Britons demand the reining in of European Union power.

[super_realist]

Christ Gael, you sound like the UK equivalent of the sweaties, crying because they are being run by Westminster.

[super_realist]

Would anyone admit to voting for ANY party Mac?

Considering your hatred for the SNP and Salmond you'd surely have to be mad not to have voted Super?

I wasn't around Diggers, I don't see European elections as being particularly significant anyway.

[gaelgowfer]

Christ Gael, you sound like the UK equivalent of the sweaties, crying because they are being run by Westminster.

Hardly.  It's the manifestation of not being given a referendum to vote on that damnable Lisbon Treaty. 

[pedro]

So you ARE crying gael. Get over it and look ahead. There is no alternative to EU.

[gaelgowfer]

So you ARE crying gael. Get over it and look ahead. There is no alternative to EU.

... said the man who didn't even vote.  

[super_realist]

What's your beef with the EU Gael?

[gaelgowfer]

Blimey, just checked; UKIP have even gained a seat in Scotland!   Argyll and Bute, take a bow. 

[gaelgowfer]

sr, I'm not going to get into an argument with you by attempting to answer your stupid questions.

[super_realist]

Gael, just give us your main objection, how can you complain about it here, if you won't even provide a reason?

[pedro]

So you ARE crying gael. Get over it and look ahead. There is no alternative to EU.

... said the man who didn't even vote.  

There's a difference btw not voting and voting for somebody who actively wants the UK out of EU.

[gaelgowfer]

So you ARE crying gael. Get over it and look ahead. There is no alternative to EU.

... said the man who didn't even vote.  

There's a difference btw not voting and voting for somebody who actively wants the UK out of EU.

What is the difference pedro ... pray tell ...

[pedro]

So you ARE crying gael. Get over it and look ahead. There is no alternative to EU.

... said the man who didn't even vote.  

There's a difference btw not voting and voting for somebody who actively wants the UK out of EU.

What is the difference pedro ... pray tell ...

There's a difference btw not going to therapy and actively wanting a divorce.

[super_realist]

Gael probably thinks the EU is in collusion with Trump.

[incontinentia]

If UKIP seize power, will there be effnic cleansing?

[gaelgowfer]

So you ARE crying gael. Get over it and look ahead. There is no alternative to EU.

... said the man who didn't even vote.

There's a difference btw not voting and voting for somebody who actively wants the UK out of EU.

What is the difference pedro ... pray tell ...

There's a difference btw not going to therapy and actively wanting a divorce.

You keep talking about differences but there's no explanation.  Basically you have no answer.  You're just waffling.  Let me make it simple for you.  Where have I actually stated I wanted the UK to leave the EU?

[McLaren]

So you ARE crying gael. Get over it and look ahead. There is no alternative to EU.

... said the man who didn't even vote. :roll:

There's a difference btw not voting and voting for somebody who actively wants the UK out of EU.

What is the difference pedro ... pray tell ...

There's a difference btw not going to therapy and actively wanting a divorce.

You keep talking about differences but there's no explanation.  Basically you have no answer.  You're just waffling.  Let me make it simple for you.  Where have I actually stated I wanted the UK to leave the EU?

You voted UKIP, why do that if you want to stay in the EU?

[JAS]

Would anyone who voted UKIP admit it in public?

I would if I did but i didn't.

If someone feels unable to openly or truthfully state who they voted for then the chances are they were either uncomfortable, embarrassed or ashamed at what they had done. Why would anyone do that??

For the record I never voted in the end, the monthly management committee meeting at the golf club overran until after 10.00pm I would have voted Labour in the local council election (because of a specific local issue).
The Euros....I'm glad I missed it. The whole concept of vast amounts of taxpayers money being spent on a grand scale on sending people to Brussels/Strasbourg to talk Love sacks and contradict national governments is quite simply a concept that has completely lost its way. Not saying some form of European cooperation/integration isn't a good thing, I just think the whole EU project needs a radical rethink. If nobody voted, they simply wouldn't have a mandate...then what??

[gaelgowfer]

JAS ... to be honest, I do feel a bit embarrassed at voting for UKIP but not ashamed.  It's a protest vote, nothing more than that.  The EU is far too powerful and its powers need to be reined in and let's face it, David Cameron is the best liberal the lib-dems have got!

I just want us to go back to being trading partner and nothing more than that.  Open borders ... no problem ... provided we can determine our own ground rules on qualification and who gets kicked out.

[McLaren]

geal

What stopped you voting green as a protest vote?

[pedro]

There are plenty of things “wrong” with EU. The bureaucracy manifested by the Brussels-Strasbourg circus in one of them. But that doesn’t change that the overall idea is good: Peaceful coexistence, free trade, work/live where you want etc. Coming closer as nations is what brings prosperity to all of us. The notion of one nation being better or “different” than the other is exactly what EU is not about, should not be about and what has torn this continent apart for centuries. Rebuilding everything from scratch, yes I might do it slightly different. Should we all “be the same”, of course not, we never will be anyway. Can this be forced upon people, of course not, but time works it its favour. Was it premature to have countries like Romania join, yes. Still I realise there is no real alternative, regardless of how much I listen to the skeptics.

The world is getting smaller for everyday. Be part of it, or live with the consequences. That’s what Norway and Switzerland do. They are small insignificant and insular nations that can afford having everything dictated by the EU. But if it makes them feel good, so be it. Could UK exit EU and join EFTA just like them? Probably yes. But UK legislation would still be decided by EU, just without the UK having a say.

And just for the record, I wasn't around to vote. Otherwise I would have.

[super_realist]

geal

What stopped you voting green as a protest vote?

I'd rather spoil my paper than vote for the greens.

[Diggers]

Will the rise if UKIP in England help the Yes vote in Scotland? I think it could, it would certainly make me think twice. The Scots are far less accepting of the right, let alone the extreme right.
Bail out while you can Sweaty's, more chance of staying in Europe by opting out of the Union.

[McLaren]

Does anyone else think that voting UKIP is about as mental as supporting the tea party?



Gael

How does it make you feel voting for a party that is openly sexist?

[super_realist]

Mac,
If you try to dictate whether people can vote for a legal, legitimate party or not depending on what your position is of that party, you're bordering on something fairly unpleasant in itself.

Most people may not like UKIP, I'm certainly not a fan as I'm pro Europe, but the whole point of democracy is that we vote for who we want.
Now, the sensible person is not childish and immediately denegrates UKIP, as they are merely meeting a demand, instead your ire should be directed at the failure of mainstream parties to gauge the public mood.

[Davie]

To me UKIP are dangerous .. though I can see why they have got quite a bit of support. As I remember things (and putting it into laymans terms, not politician speak) .. we joined a "common market" - that's the bit that is valuable to the UK. I don't recall us being told we were signing up to a community that would tell us bananas had to be straight or all the other silly rules imposed on us

[Diggers]

UKIP unite an element of the public who have strong opinions on a couple of policies. It doesn't mean most people have those views and most people still vote along party lines.
You can't expect any single large party to have the answer all the public wants because their isn't such a thing.

[super_realist]

Indeed Diggers, you can never get everyone to agree on any issue, however, if a particular party is alienating a large proportion of its core vote on one or two issues, then why is that party misjudging the situation so badly?

I'm personally not a fan of the "I don't like it, so let's have a referendum" clamour we seem to get these days.

[Diggers]

They are to alienating me, and if they were to go along with UKIP policy they would alienate a lot more people.
It's just there is a huge disconnect at the moment on these issues with a lot of people.
That said I do feel a protest vote for UKIP is a massive mistake, but hey, that's democracy for you.

[gaelgowfer]

Vince Cable's being awfully quiet ...

[Diggers]

I like Csble but he would be a shocking leader IMO. Doesn't have the finesse for it. He's as complicit as Clegg was in the coalition, perhaps more so as he "was" further left than Cleggy.
I don't think they have anyone better than Clegg really, or rather it won't make a lot of difference.
Whatever happens I think at a general election they still pull more seats than UKIP ever will, every chance of 40 or so and holding the balance of power.

[gaelgowfer]

Diggers, it's amazing the difference just 24 hours can make.  The noises coming the three mainstream parties have collectively decided to go into denial and carry on as before with Labour and Lib-Dems beating the European drum and Cameron pretending to be all things to all people.  Absolutely disgraceful.  If UKIP have proved anything, it's that the voters don't matter to the three mainstream parties.  

Cleggies 'big jessie' teary-eyed reaction to his party's thumping yesterday absolutely requires that he steps down.

[McLaren]

If UKIP have proved anything it is that the voters of the UK are easily influenced and highly ignorant.

But lets be realistic, a small proportion of 30 odd percent of the population voted UKIP. Barely 10% of the total population.

If the media were not obsessed with stirring up a "more exciting" story about UKIP then we would be hearing the real story.

Labour gained 330 council seats
UKIP failed badly in the council elections (0 councils)
Tories lost 12 councils,net loss of over 170 seats

And as mentioned above in the european elections UKIP got votes from about 10% of those eligible to vote. So a small proportion of people don't understand the european union and made a silly vote.

But that doesn't follow the story the news channels want to put out, so hey, lets just ignore the facts.

[Diggers]

Its a tricky one because they are saying what I want to hear and what a lot of others do. UKIP still only polled a 10th of the overall electorate.
In fact a poll today said for the first time more people were pro Euro membership than against. It's just the ones who are against and also dislike immigration believe strongly and vote.

[navyblueshorts]

Does anyone else think that voting UKIP is about as mental as supporting the tea party?



Gael

How does it make you feel voting for a party that is openly sexist?

Oh, do grow up! You don't agree but your attitude is so like the main politicians it's hysterical. Let's see, oh yes. You vote UKIP so therefore you're a racist, bigotted, thicky. And the Camerons, Millbands and Cleggs wonder what went wrong! No wonder they haven't a clue. It's politics, therefore it's opinion and counter opinion with very little evidence to be seen. As long as the main parties continue to treat people as idiots, spout PR claptrap and refuse to even address the issues that UKIP bang on about, then people will vote UKIP. A LOT of people want the ideas surrounding immigration etc to be addressed - if it's so clear what the advantages are, why are the main parties so crap at getting them across?

As for the EU, it's pretty clear that they are overly bureaucratic, on a political mission for the Hell of it, simply ignore votes when they don't get what they want and are, basically financially useless. The terms of membership have changed out of all recognition from what people thought they signed up to. If the EU technocrats don't listen then there's every chance the so-say protest vote will simply get bigger.

If UKIP have proved anything it is that the voters of the UK are easily influenced and highly ignorant....

You arrogant......! Your comment is exactly the problem the main politicians have. They fail, time after time, after time, to make a good case for anything and then whinge when something goes against their ivory tower-influenced day dreaming. They make me sick. I can see exactly why so many voted UKIP. It may not hold in a general election but you never know. The main politicians will have no-one to blame but themselves (not that they'd do that!) if their little party is ruined by more extremist politics.
You and yours keep on highlighting how little UKIP actually won but conveniently carry on ignoring the % change in their vote. I'm sure the politicians in the Weimar Republic did exactly the same re. National Socialism and look at the bite they got on their arses. I say again, if the main parties continue to treat people like dirt and whose opinions don't count, then they'll live to regret it. A change in economic outlook will help mitigate it, but not that much.

Its a tricky one because they are saying what I want to hear and what a lot of others do. UKIP still only polled a 10th of the overall electorate.
In fact a poll today said for the first time more people were pro Euro membership than against. It's just the ones who are against and also dislike immigration believe strongly and vote.

Wow. If those idiots don't vote, they'll get what they deserve.

[Davie]

I can't see UKIP getting anywhere in a general election though as their focus is too narrow .. once you discard their independence part of their name, what is left? Whether one considers them racist is a moot point perhaps .. do they have an economic policy once you take their (debatable) racist outlook out of it? Do they have a foreign policy? Even a racist party, (if that's what they are) still needs to deal with the rest of the world even if they don't like them. How about the health service?

As far as I'm concerned, they have an immigration policy and an EU policy - and after that they are running on fumes

[navyblueshorts]

I can't see UKIP getting anywhere in a general election though as their focus is too narrow .. once you discard their independence part of their name, what is left? Whether one considers them racist is a moot point perhaps .. do they have an economic policy once you take their (debatable) racist outlook out of it? Do they have a foreign policy? Even a racist party, (if that's what they are) still needs to deal with the rest of the world even if they don't like them. How about the health service?

As far as I'm concerned, they have an immigration policy and an EU policy - and after that they are running on fumes

Very well put. However, why are the main parties so utterly crap at pointing even this out??? TBH, if they're that stupid, we must be mad allowing them to represent our interests anywhere.

[Diggers]

Navy, I'm sorry but they they constantly point it out. Milliband was doing just that on the Andrew Marr show on Sunday. All three parties talk about UKIPs lack of policy all the time.
The fact is that those who support UKIP don't care, it's those two policies they want to see.

[kwinigolfer]

Not sure about those Scotland shirts - they look as if McLaren and super_realist designed them between them.
All will be forgiven if they win.

[Diggers]

Speaking of the soon to be independent realm of Esocia, myself and Mrs D are off up to Glasgy for the Commonwealth games.
Any suggestions for a nice place to eat or things worth seeing up there?

[beninho]

Went to Glasgow years back. Got a tan. That was a turn up. Don't remember much of it.

[McLaren]

Navy

Please show me the data that proves immigration in its current form poses any problem to the UK. If this does not exist - which it doesn't - then how can a vote for UKIP be based on anything other than an ideology of hate.

[mystiroakey]

I am with you for once Mac... I can't abide any "this country is for the ones born here" attitude. 

I am fiercely patriotic in a sporting sense but not in any other way at all.

[Diggers]

Mac, I believe it's been proved to be very dangerous when Romanians move in next door.

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