Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

Instead of a protest vote, then its better to spoil your ballot.

Ukip are dangerous because some people actually believe what they say, and they target the middle classes in areas of law multi culturalism - ( if thats a word). And as gets shown every now and then, the Councillors they put up have been shown as a bit racist. But its easy for them to make grand statements, because realistically they will not get voted in and have to back up the statements they have made.  

Have no fear, the nutters are getting kicked out at regular intervals.

And some people may believe what they say for, a lot of the time, it's common sense.

[navyblueshorts]

Navy, I'm sorry but they they constantly point it out. Milliband was doing just that on the Andrew Marr show on Sunday. All three parties talk about UKIPs lack of policy all the time.
The fact is that those who support UKIP don't care, it's those two policies they want to see.

No, they don't. Not really and not in any way successfully. The sort of people they need to aim at don't watch Andrew Marr!

[navyblueshorts]

Navy

Please show me the data that proves immigration in its current form poses any problem to the UK.  If this does not exist - which it doesn't - then how can a vote for UKIP be based on anything other than an ideology of hate.

Jeeeezus! It's not me that has to supply the data! The perception is immigration is a -ve. YOU (or those of your position) need to provide the argument/evidence. The status quo means you are going to lose the 'argument'.
If there's no problem from immigration (which I don't accept de facto as the argument is very wide-ranging), then it should be easy to convince a doubter. Prove it....

[pedro]

Guys, it's the same all over Europe: Anti-EU and anti-immigration parties had good elections all over Europe.

[navyblueshorts]

Mac, I believe it's been proved to be very dangerous when Romanians move in next door.

No, it hasn't. But that kind of superior, flippant disregard of the issue is what's wrong. Make the case. I'm not even a UKIP voter btw but it's so obvious that not enough is being done to provide a coherent, evidence-based argument to dispute UKIPs points.

[Diggers]

Navy, I'm sorry but they they constantly point it out. Milliband was doing just that on the Andrew Marr show on Sunday. All three parties talk about UKIPs lack of policy all the time.
The fact is that those who support UKIP don't care, it's those two policies they want to see.

No, they don't. Not really and not in any way successfully. The sort of people they need to aim at don't watch Andrew Marr!

Yes they do. Let's face it you've more or less said you can't be arsed to take an interest so I'm not really sure how you can come out with statements like that which quite frankly is a load of tosh.
Perhaps you think Cameron should pop round and explain it to you  personally? Alternatively you could read any political column or watch any political program and you would quickly see you are utterly wrong.

[navyblueshorts]

Navy, I'm sorry but they they constantly point it out. Milliband was doing just that on the Andrew Marr show on Sunday. All three parties talk about UKIPs lack of policy all the time.
The fact is that those who support UKIP don't care, it's those two policies they want to see.

No, they don't. Not really and not in any way successfully. The sort of people they need to aim at don't watch Andrew Marr!

Yes they do. Let's face it you've more or less said you can't be arsed to take an interest so I'm not really sure how you can come out with statements like that which quite frankly is a load of tosh.
Perhaps you think Cameron should pop round and explain it to you  personally? Alternatively you could read any political column or watch any political program and you would quickly see you are utterly wrong.

Don't be ridiculous. You're not convincing me one iota. There's a problem. You can stick your head in the sand all you want but it's not going away anytime soon. No skin off my nose really.

[Diggers]

The problem is that intelligent, educated people like you who could so easily be better informed can't be bothered. And then you blame the parties.
Where else are politicians meant to put their views forward on UKIP other than in the political media? If people aren't interested then they just aren't interested.
Also they have to be careful re UKIP, simply slate them and then people say its just negative politics.
Sorry but blaming the parties for me is just a cop out.

[gaelgowfer]

Navy

Please show me the data that proves immigration in its current form poses any problem to the UK.  If this does not exist - which it doesn't - then how can a vote for UKIP be based on anything other than an ideology of hate.

Note for Diggers:  the following is what is known as a link - something which you failed to include to support two points you made last evening which led me to conclude you (and Mac for that matter) were on the wind-up.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/feb/27/net-migration-uk-jumps-30-percent

A shock rise of more than 30% over the past year in net migration to Britain to 212,000 has dashed Conservative hopes of meeting their target of bringing the figure below 100,000 before the general election.

Is that sufficient evidence for you Mac?

I repeat again for the hard of understanding; mainstream parties are continuing to ignore british citizens concerns regarding the future wellbeing of this once great nation.  That is the only reason I voted for UKIP.  I repeat, it was a protest vote and nothing more than that.

[navyblueshorts]

:shrug: I take some of your reasoning but the point is, there's a problem. The parties are to blame. I could make more of the running I guess but I have far more that's important to my life right now - something I suspect millions of others would say.
They want my vote - make a better case. Or better still, make any sort of case at all. Have some principles. Stand for something. Tell the truth. Etc, etc, etc.
Re. UKIP, there's demonstrably an issue. It's not enough to say "Hey! Lazy! Get out there and find out more!".

[Diggers]

Gael, this is a forum for debate, not data analysis. I don't even know what point you are referring to as I haven't even spoken in any detail about immigration on here.
So my opinion is that a protest vote only shows support for a dangerous party like UKIP, it's not a smart move in my opinion to give then any form of platform.
That said a poll has shown that over half UKIP voters will stand by them. I dont have a link, I heard that on the radio and am assuming Radio Sussex were telling the truth.

[Diggers]

Navy, shrug, fair enough. All adds up to apathy as far as I can see though.

[navyblueshorts]

Navy, shrug, fair enough. All adds up to apathy as far as I can see though.

Maybe and it's not to say I don't feel some guilt about the way I feel. The fact is though, there's obviously an issue. I suspect that most politicians don't actually care though as long as they get their next term as an MP. Too many career politicians now. They don't care what % of the population vote as long as they're in.
Personally, I blame Bliar. Seems reasonable to me!

[raycastleunited]

Navy, as moderator, can we have a dedicated politics and religion thread, as these are very popular topics on here.

Then we can call this thread "Drive4show anything but golf, religion and politics thread"  

[Diggers]

Well Tony turned out to a big disappointment, this is true. But I blame Thatcher myself.
A career politician seems a dodgy route to me, relatively poor pay for the calibre of people who go into it and clearly precarious. Plus you get slagged by everyone for being an MP even if you are doing it for completely good reasons and work your butt off.

[navyblueshorts]

Navy, as moderator, can we have a dedicated politics and religion thread, as these are very popular topics on here.

Then we can call this thread "Drive4show anything but golf, religion and politics thread"  

Well, a while back, politics etc were allowed on the 'Off Topic' area of the Forum but a few people repeatedly had some heated arguments so basically, it wasn't allowed again. Not sure on the current status though.
Religion does get a bit too frequent airing around here, that's for sure!

[McLaren]

Gael

That link shows that on average about 200,000 migrants come to the UK every year. At no point is it mentioned whether that is negative or positive thing for the UK. Unless of course you have a basic objection to people moving to this country regardless of the benefit or cost associated with that?

[navyblueshorts]

...But I blame Thatcher myself...

Well, she's definitely worth blaming, that's for sure!

[super_realist]

I don't think anyone can be against immigration providing that people are bringing skills which are in short supply, there is sufficient infrastructure to support the additional people and that they aren't here for the benefits.
If all those requirements are met, I've no objection to 500,000 people coming in.

[mystiroakey]

Navy, as moderator, can we have a dedicated politics and religion thread, as these are very popular topics on here.

Then we can call this thread "Drive4show anything but golf, religion and politics thread"  

Amen to that

[Diggers]

I don't think anyone can be against immigration providing that people are bringing skills which are in short supply, there is sufficient infrastructure to support the additional people and that they aren't here for the benefits.
If all those requirements are met, I've no objection to 500,000 people coming in.

500000 is a lot of people to go to live in the Independent Republic of Scotland SR.

[super_realist]

I don't think anyone can be against immigration providing that people are bringing skills which are in short supply, there is sufficient infrastructure to support the additional people and that they aren't here for the benefits.
If all those requirements are met, I've no objection to 500,000 people coming in.

500000 is a lot of people to go to live in the Independent Republic of Scotland SR.

Steady Diggers.

[gaelgowfer]

Gael, this is a forum for debate, not data analysis. I don't even know what point you are referring to as I haven't even spoken in any detail about immigration on here.

That said a poll has shown that over half UKIP voters will stand by them. I dont have a link, I heard that on the radio and am assuming Radio Sussex were telling the truth.

Diggers, this is what you said ...

In fact a poll today said for the first time more people were pro Euro membership than against.

You made no attempt to back up such an assertion with any hard evidence as to the source of this poll.  Still, given its source ... Radio Sussex   ... I can well understand why you were reluctant to name it!

So my opinion is that a protest vote only shows support for a dangerous party like UKIP, it's not a smart move in my opinion to give then any form of platform.

Complete and utter overreaction.  There's a vast difference between voting in a European election and a General election not least of which, in this case, was the vastly reduced number of voters voting in the former.  UKIP has done its job of applying some much-needed rattling of cages to shake mainstream parties out of their collective inertia.  You might be happy to be part of a non people elected federalised Europe but I'm not.  In any event, if Tony B. Liar had not denied the british people a promised referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, then it would, in all likelihood never have been necessary for me to vote for UKIP in the first place!

[super_realist]

Of course, you'd never over-react on a subject would you Gael?

Trump?

[gaelgowfer]

super_realist ... never seem to see your name on the list of browsers using this forum.  Why is that?

[super_realist]

What do you mean?

[Diggers]

Whether you agree or not your vote has helped give UKIP a platform. People who didn't vote see the UKIP success and think hang on maybe they are mainstream...Ill get on that bandwagon.
This election asked a lot more questions than previous a Euro elections, it had a lot of importance IMO.
Hey Gael, it's your vote use it as you like, I just think you made a mistake.
I won't be providing links, if you are that bothered you'll find them and if you choose not to believe me it's hardly the end of my world is it.

[gaelgowfer]

It's a simple enough question sr.

[super_realist]

What are you referring to? What list of "browsers"?

[McLaren]

Super,

When you are browsing the forum, any posts you have made should have an "online" tag next to your name.

Underneath the list of threads there is also a list of members currently online.

[gaelgowfer]

Whether you agree or not your vote has helped give UKIP a platform. People who didn't vote see the UKIP success and think hang on maybe they are mainstream...Ill get on that bandwagon.

Is that the best you can do?

This election asked a lot more questions than previous a Euro elections, it had a lot of importance IMO.
Hey Gael, it's your vote use it as you like, I just think you made a mistake.

Ok, so voting for a teary-eyed big Jessie (would you really want Clegg to go head to head with Putin?) isn't a mistake?

I won't be providing links, if you are that bothered you'll find them and if you choose not to believe me it's hardly the end of my world is it.

Well, given the source of your information, it was entirely appropriate for me to question your assertion.  

If you're going to put up comments like this ...

In fact a poll today said for the first time more people were pro Euro membership than against.

... then I don't think it unreasonable to ask where such information was sourced.

[Bob_the_Job]

super_realist ... never seem to see your name on the list of browsers using this forum.  Why is that?

It could be he's on a mobile device connected over 3G.

[mystiroakey]

Sr is the scarlet pimpernel of the forum.  But it's more than likely due to his work IP.

[gaelgowfer]

super_realist ... never seem to see your name on the list of browsers using this forum.  Why is that?

It could be he's on a mobile device connected over 3G.

Bob, you're talking to an old chook here.  What the 'ell is a 3G? 

[gaelgowfer]

Sr is the scarlet pimpernel of the forum.  But it's more than likely due to his work IP.

Oakey, I just thought you had to be registered in order to post.

[Bob_the_Job]

3G - Third Generation. A higher speed data connection supported over the mobile phone network. However, it's not an "always on" connection like a traditional broadband connections is, so your "presence" is not always handled correctly.

[mystiroakey]

You do. But certain internet firewalls, internet providers, protocols work differently within the constraints of the coding of the forum,It's a mine field out there

[mystiroakey]

3G - Third Generation.  A higher speed data connection supported over the mobile phone network.  However, it's not an "always on" connection like a traditional broadband connections is, so your "presence" is not always handled correctly.

Cough cough. I have 4g on the move... And most will have H or 3.5g old fella  

[Diggers]

Gael, no need to have a pop at me just because you are dumb enough to vote for a bog eyed right wing lunatic like Farage.
One word..sucker.

[navyblueshorts]

Gael, no need to have a pop at me just because you are dumb enough to vote for a bog eyed right wing lunatic like Farage.
One word..sucker.

Mmm. Really constructive! Insulting. Anything else? May as well talk to a brick wall. You (and others holding the same opinions re. why UKIP polled votes) are just compounding any problems with weaning people off UKIP. Who's the real sucker? Those that take their vote elsewhere (i.e. UKIP) for a change/to make a point or those that blindly follow the same old failures spouting their same old PR-washed crap? I'm tending towards the latter as the real suckers....

[Bob_the_Job]

3G - Third Generation.  A higher speed data connection supported over the mobile phone network.  However, it's not an "always on" connection like a traditional broadband connections is, so your "presence" is not always handled correctly.

Cough cough. I have 4g on the move... And most will have H or 3.5g old fella  

Good for you, so have I, but I was speculating a possible answer to Gael's questions so I'm not sure what your point is.  As it happens, "3.5G" or HSDPA is not a persisted network connection either so presence and location information can also drop out.

[Diggers]

Strewth Navy, sense of humour crisis.
The real sucker is the bloke who can't be bothered to vote and blames everyone else. Sound familiar, you know that bloke ?

[McLaren]

Navy you seem to be confused.

Why do you see UKIP as the only alternate vote to the three main parties?  If all you want to do is lower the votes they get then why not pick a party with more palatable policies, like the greens for example.

One aspect of a UKIP vote may be a protest/anti EU message to Dave and Ed, but you would have to be totally ignorant not to realise voting UKIP is also condoning many very dangerous right wing ideas.  UKIP are anti women, anti NHS, anti workers rights and much more.

So what point is really being made when someone votes UKIP?  As I said, why not make a better point and vote green, who by the way, are willing to offer a referendum on the form of our EU membership.

So diggers is perfectly correct in what he had to say, and I can't understand why you are condoning voting for UKIP.

[mystiroakey]

Starting to think mac isn't a wum anymore. It's confusing and distressing me..

Have you got laid recently Mac?

[super_realist]

Super,

When you are browsing the forum, any posts you have made should have an "online" tag next to your name.

Underneath the list of threads there is also a list of members currently online.

Not quite sure why Gael is scouring the "browser list" to see who is online or not.

[mystiroakey]

Super,

When you are browsing the forum, any posts you have made should have an "online" tag next to your name.

Underneath the list of threads there is also a list of members currently online.

Not quite sure why Gael is scouring the "browser list" to see who is online or not.

She likes you. Yes a woman likes you SR ..  

[1GrumpyGolfer]

Super,

When you are browsing the forum, any posts you have made should have an "online" tag next to your name.

Underneath the list of threads there is also a list of members currently online.

Not quite sure why Gael is scouring the "browser list" to see who is online or not.

It's also a profile choice in preferences where you can choose to hide your online status or not. Those that don't have the "online" tag next to their posts when they are connected. Not sure what the default setting is; maybe SR didn't change it.

[super_realist]

I probably did just that Grumpy. This forum has been going a long time.

[super_realist]

Moving on from sniping at Gael, what about that women being stoned in Pakistan and by her own family.
In what sort of retarded logic does the "dishonouring" of ones family come before the love for your children?

[mystiroakey]

Yes stoning is bad. We all agree on that one.

[beninho]

The guy from one direction, is a big fan of it....

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