Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

Instead of a protest vote, then its better to spoil your ballot.

Ukip are dangerous because some people actually believe what they say, and they target the middle classes in areas of law multi culturalism - ( if thats a word). And as gets shown every now and then, the Councillors they put up have been shown as a bit racist. But its easy for them to make grand statements, because realistically they will not get voted in and have to back up the statements they have made.  

Have no fear, the nutters are getting kicked out at regular intervals.

And some people may believe what they say for, a lot of the time, it's common sense.

[mystiroakey]

Who and what? I am Not up on the gossip pages Ben.

[gaelgowfer]

Gael, no need to have a pop at me just because you are dumb enough to vote for a bog eyed right wing lunatic like Farage.
One word..sucker.

Oh dear, I've certainly rattled your cage.  

So much for debate. 

[incontinentia]

Sr is the scarlet pimpernel of the forum.  But it's more than likely due to his work IP.

SR is the MacAdder of the forum. The most dangerous man ever to wear a skirt in Europe.

[Diggers]

More importantly who is watching Froch v Groves? Real pick em fight, think Groves this time but to be honest any result wouldn't surprise me.

[gaelgowfer]

3G - Third Generation.  A higher speed data connection supported over the mobile phone network.  However, it's not an "always on" connection like a traditional broadband connections is, so your "presence" is not always handled correctly.

Thanks for that (and to you oakey). 

[McLaren]

More importantly who is watching Froch v Groves? Real pick em fight, think Groves this time but to be honest any result wouldn't surprise me.

Watching boxing might be the only thing more moronic than voting UKIP.

[navyblueshorts]

Strewth Navy, sense of humour crisis.
The real sucker is the bloke who can't be bothered to vote and blames everyone else. Sound familiar, you know that bloke ?

Your humour got lost in translation I'm afraid.
I know him. Think he's the sucker? I don't. I know what the implications are. Those that blindly follow the same thing, time after time after time, would appear to have more of a problem to me.

[navyblueshorts]

Navy you seem to be confused.

Why do you see UKIP as the only alternate vote to the three main parties?  If all you want to do is lower the votes they get then why not pick a party with more palatable policies, like the greens for example.

One aspect of a UKIP vote may be a protest/anti EU message to Dave and Ed, but you would have to be totally ignorant not to realise voting UKIP is also condoning many very dangerous right wing ideas.  UKIP are anti women, anti NHS, anti workers rights and much more.

So what point is really being made when someone votes UKIP?  As I said, why not make a better point and vote green, who by the way, are willing to offer a referendum on the form of our EU membership.

So diggers is perfectly correct in what he had to say, and I can't understand why you are condoning voting for UKIP.

Absolute bollox. You're right, people could vote for the greens but, get this, they're concerned about immigration and the effect that has on the U.K. Voting Green would be a big boon to that cause wouldn't it? You seem to be more confused than I it would seem.
You're typical of the luvvie media re. UKIP I'm afraid. Are you telling me that the Tories, Labour etc don't have anyone with extremist views? Don't make me laugh.
Again you say someone voting UKIP would have to be "totally ignorant". Are you quite so arrogant as you appear to be? Just because you don't either understand it or agree with it does not make those that vote UKIP ignorant. You want to make them more entrenched? You keep lambasting them with your supercilious, superior nonsense about how "ignorant" they are.

Watching boxing might be the only thing more moronic than voting UKIP.

Jeeeeezus! There's no end to your stupidity is there?

On the subject of Froch-Groves, I'm hoping Froch but could go either way. At least it's a genuine competition.

[super_realist]

Can't stand the Green party.

[Davie]

3G - Third Generation.  A higher speed data connection supported over the mobile phone network.  However, it's not an "always on" connection like a traditional broadband connections is, so your "presence" is not always handled correctly.

Thanks for that (and to you oakey). 

Interesting information but not strictly correct. 3G may not be an "always on" connection but that is nothing to do with whether people show as "online" here or not. Forums like these have a "logged in" timeout (something like 15 minutes. So if you logged in, made a post, then disconnected your broadband, you would still show as "online" for 15 minutes or whatever it is

[McLaren]

Navy

You mean the luvvie media that hyped UKIP to the point where every fool in the land was brainwashed into voting for Nige?

So, if i am understanding you correctly, you think it is ok to vote for a party that has a long list of horrendous policies that might really damage peoples lives, as long as they have one policy that might be vaguely to your liking? The sad thing is, that UKIP voters are the very people UKIP would cruch if given any power.

[super_realist]

Mac, I think UKIP have about 10% of the vote.

[McLaren]

Super

I tried to make that point much earlier in the thread. The media love the UKIP hype, is there anything more to UKIPs current status?

The real story should have been that Ed won another election and that a small proportion of people are bigots.

[super_realist]

Ed is as much of a knobhead as Farage

[Diggers]

Strewth Navy, sense of humour crisis.
The real sucker is the bloke who can't be bothered to vote and blames everyone else. Sound familiar, you know that bloke ?

Your humour got lost in translation I'm afraid.
I know him. Think he's the sucker? I don't. I know what the implications are. Those that blindly follow the same thing, time after time after time, would appear to have more of a problem to me.

Blindly following the blind? Well as I seem to be the one who actually reads the political press and listens to what all of the parties say through the political media, them make an informed choice, then Id say Im somewhat less blind than say you.
However you spin it not voting is just a kop out. Especially when bizarrely you still have such strong opinions. How ironic.

[Diggers]

Here is the UKIP irony, Cameron promises a 2017 in out EU referendum..just what UKIP allegedly wants.
Yet who is the biggest threat to a Tory win in the next GE, yep only UKIP.
Protest vote...hilarious.

[navyblueshorts]

Navy

You mean the luvvie media that hyped UKIP to the point where every fool in the land was brainwashed into voting for Nige?

So, if i am understanding you correctly, you think it is ok to vote for a party that has a long list of horrendous policies that might really damage peoples lives, as long as they have one policy that might be vaguely to your liking? The sad thing is, that UKIP voters are the very people UKIP would cruch if given any power.

Oh whatever Mac. The luvvie media didn't hype UKIP at all, certainly not in the way you're implying. Your evidence for the horrendous outcomes of any UKIP policies? It's your opinion only. Simply going "Oh! The Bogie Man!! Run away!" isn't going to convince anyone not to vote UKIP.

[super_realist]

Don't you get it Navy, if your opinions aren't precisely the same as Mac, you're a racist, immoral, sexist, homophobic, Daily Mail reading, Tory voting bigot.

[navyblueshorts]

Super

I tried to make that point much earlier in the thread.  The media love the UKIP hype, is  there anything more to UKIPs current status?

The real story should have been that Ed won another election and that a small proportion of people are bigots.

Yet again you're being a willfully ignorant arse. Who cares if it was 10%? What % increase in Council seats did they get this time? What % increase in MEPs? That's the important issue but, as most people confronted with an inconvenient fact do, you big up something to play down the bit you don't like.
As for the bigot remark, apart from the fact it, yet again, simply plays up the fact of your conceited arrogance, you should look up your dictionary definition. There's no religion involved here.

[MustPuttBetter]

More importantly who is watching Froch v Groves? Real pick em fight, think Groves this time but to be honest any result wouldn't surprise me.

I'm watching, although am not overly happy about having to fork out £17 to do it (i have, mind you). I'm not a big Froch fan - seemingly unlike the rest of the country - so would like to see Groves beat him. Just hope it doesn't go on too long as i have early golf on Sunday ha!
They should have arranged it so the England game and the boxing were on the same day. Would have made the relationship with the other half less strained.......

[navyblueshorts]

Strewth Navy, sense of humour crisis.
The real sucker is the bloke who can't be bothered to vote and blames everyone else. Sound familiar, you know that bloke ?

Your humour got lost in translation I'm afraid.
I know him. Think he's the sucker? I don't. I know what the implications are. Those that blindly follow the same thing, time after time after time, would appear to have more of a problem to me.

Blindly following the blind? Well as I seem to be the one who actually reads the political press and listens to what all of the parties say through the political media, them make an informed choice, then Id say Im somewhat less blind than say you.
However you spin it not voting is just a kop out. Especially when bizarrely you still have such strong opinions. How ironic.

Good for you. You know how crap they are and still you vote for them. Actually, I wasn't referring directly to you last time but you seem to take it that I was. Odd.


Done with this discussion I think. A lot of sound and fury meaning very little at the end of the day.

[navyblueshorts]

Don't you get it Navy, if your opinions aren't precisely the same as Mac, you're a racist, immoral, sexist, homophobic, Daily Mail reading, Tory voting bigot.

Ahhhhhh! Sorry. Duh! Of course. I forgot that bit....

[gaelgowfer]

Diggers, it's much more likely it'll be lib-dem and labour who will scupper any hope of a referendum.  Once again the british people will be denied a referendum on Europe.      

Incidentally, difficult not to notice that both you and Mac have failed to address Tony B. Liar's treacherous betrayal in denying the british people a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. Why is that?

[super_realist]

Quite simple Gael, the Lisbon Treaty was changed after Blairs promise so any referendum wouldn't have been based on the same treaty as the one promised, besides politicians always break promises.

I can't believe I'm defending that religitard Blair, but there you go.

[Diggers]

Gael, it's not my job to defend Blair, how do you even know I vote Labour? I'm a Liberal at heart.
Also I hardly think campaigning to win a GE with a full set of policies is scuppering a referendum. There is no protest vote element in voting Labour or Liberal.
Just so you know Id be for a referendum, it would kill UKIP, and the longer we wait and the more people I'll advisedly vote for UKIP, the worse it gets.
But I still wouldn't ever vote Tory as all the rest of their policies I don't agree with.

[mystiroakey]

Predictions for the summer.

England semi final, Rooney to score 3 goals in the tourny. France to win it.. Giroud golden boot..... Yes you heard me right!!!!

England 1 - 2 NZ in the Rugby

Wales to lose all games v the boks.

England to lose all tests v SL   but root will shine

Westy to win a major( I won't give up on him)

USA to win the Ryder cup. The young uns are coming through..

Murray for Wimbledon.

[McLaren]

Navy

If UKIP voters were shown evidence that immigration was a benefit to the UK they would still want to close the borders.  How can you fail to see that?

Hence it is very easy to claim they are bigoted and ignorant.


gael

I would currently trust europe to run our country compared to the cruel numpties in charge at the moment.  


Here is the man that Navy thinks is full of good ideas.

Nigel Farage v James O'Brien: Live On LBC:

[gaelgowfer]

Gael, it's not my job to defend Blair, how do you even know I vote Labour? I'm a Liberal at heart.
Also I hardly think campaigning to win a GE with a full set of policies is scuppering a referendum. There is no protest vote element in voting Labour or Liberal.
Just so you know Id be for a referendum, it would kill UKIP, and the longer we wait and the more people I'll advisedly vote for UKIP, the worse it gets.
But I still wouldn't ever vote Tory as all the rest of their policies I don't agree with.

Er, yes, I had sussed that you were liberal.  The point is    that both liberals and labourites are die-hard pro-European and it is to this aspect I would have thought it fair to expect a response form either of you.  Care to comment now?

[Bob_the_Job]

The fact is that all elections in my lifetime seem to have been about finding and voting for the least objectionable bunch. I can't remember ever voting enthusiastically and feeling that the people or party I was voting for would make a great and positive impact on my life or even the life of the majority.

Lately it's also increasingly obvious that most elections are an example of style over substance and an appeal to the lowest common denominator. I can no longer name an active politician I have respect for.

[gaelgowfer]

Navy

If UKIP voters were shown evidence that immigration was a benefit to the UK they would still want to close the borders.  How can you fail to see that?

Hence it is very easy to claim they are bigoted and ignorant.


gael

I would currently trust europe to run our country compared to the cruel numpties in charge at the moment.  


Here is the man that Navy thinks is full of good ideas.

Nigel Farage v James O'Brien:

Mac ... the problem is that European migrants to the UK are currently outnumbering emigrants from the UK.  Our welfare system is buckling under the strain.  The simple truth is that the European Union is not working for Britain.  Federalization will only make things worse not better!

[Davie]

Joey Barton and Piers Morgan on Question Time tonight? Great illustration of what has become of the once-mighty BBC

[super_realist]

Gael, how many Brits are putting pressure on the welfare state?

[Diggers]

Joey Barton and Piers Morgan on Question Time tonight? Great illustration of what has become of the once-mighty BBC

To be fair, completely unrepresentative of the panel in the rest of the series.
I don't like Morgan but I can see why he's on there, he is an incredibly smart guy, you do t achieve what he has in his profession without being smart.
I have nothing to defend Barton with other than that people are saying how do we engage the younger generation in politics? Well presumably this is the thinking behind why he is on there.

[McLaren]

Apparently our welfare system was doing pretty well. In fact so well that Osbourne felt the need to slash funding for it.

Seriously. Where is the evidence for what you say about immigration?

[Diggers]

Gael, it's not my job to defend Blair, how do you even know I vote Labour? I'm a Liberal at heart.
Also I hardly think campaigning to win a GE with a full set of policies is scuppering a referendum. There is no protest vote element in voting Labour or Liberal.
Just so you know Id be for a referendum, it would kill UKIP, and the longer we wait and the more people I'll advisedly vote for UKIP, the worse it gets.
But I still wouldn't ever vote Tory as all the rest of their policies I don't agree with.

Er, yes, I had sussed that you were liberal.  The point is    that both liberals and labourites are die-hard pro-European and it is to this aspect I would have thought it fair to expect a response form either of you.  Care to comment now?

Why would a Liberal need to defend Blair?
I think the way Europe is ran will change, Cameron has already made so e progress and I believe Strasbourg is increasingly open to each member state having more freedom.
Id rather be in Europe than out but I can see the argument against. Feeding the mobster that is UKIP is not the answer though.

[gaelgowfer]

Apparently our welfare system was doing pretty well.  In fact so well that Osbourne felt the need to slash funding for it.

Seriously. Where is the evidence for what you say about immigration?

I've already covered that.  On the other hand ... the Lisbon Treaty ... anything to say on that?

[super_realist]

I did Gael, maybe you missed it, the Lisbon Treaty was changed, the promised referendum wouldn't have been on the same terms as originally planned.

[navyblueshorts]

Navy

If UKIP voters were shown evidence that immigration was a benefit to the UK they would still want to close the borders.  How can you fail to see that?

Hence it is very easy to claim they are bigoted and ignorant....

:yawn: Carry on making things up as you go along. May as well eh?

Lately it's also increasingly obvious that most elections are an example of style over substance and an appeal to the lowest common denominator. I can no longer name an active politician I have respect for.

Quite.


On the subject of dangerous politicians and politics, what we really should be up in arms about is stuff like this:

Stinking, greasy 'deal' reached to protect Blair and Bush

[Bob_the_Job]

Interesting wording in that BBC report NBS - first time I think I've seen the mainstream press use a phrase like "The 2003 invasion of Iraq by British and US forces, on the pretext that it had weapons of mass destruction" - in the past it was always been words like "The 2003 invasion of Iraq by British and US forces, in the belief.." or "..because it was thought that..." .  Preparing the ground I'd say.

[Diggers]

I don't think this is as clear cut as people think. There is an important precedent here as was pointed out last night on QT. At what stage do we decide there is no condfidentiality between the PM and the US president. Clearly national security interests have to come into play at some point.
And I say that as someone who marched against the war back in 2003 and still believes it, and Afghanistan, were huge mistakes.

[McLaren]

Diggers

The point we should be thinking about breaching confidentiality between a PM and a POTUS is when it contains evidence that would interest the international war crimes tribunal.

That the precedent becomes one of deterrent against future illegal wars.

[Diggers]

Indeed Mac, but what if an independent reviewer has looked at the document, seen that is not the case, and made a decision that it is not in the public interest to disclose the rest of the conversation?
Hey, I'm not saying the whole thing isn't fishy, I'm just saying its not as clear cut as the front page of a crappy newspaper will make it look.

[navyblueshorts]

I think someone with the inquiry has seen the unexpurgated transcripts etc. The trouble is (and maybe I'm too cynical) is that I don't believe the lack of full disclosure (genuine security/secrets etc aside) has to do with anything except preventing the world seeing just how flimsy (and maybe crooked) were the reasons for which we went to war in Iraq.
There may be some valid reason not to publish it all, but I can't see it. I doubt the hundreds(?) of thousands of dead as a result of Iraq do either.

[super_realist]

I resent that the public thinks it has the right to know everything. There are reasons for not disclosing things.

[gaelgowfer]

The world may have to wait for the deaths of Blair and Bush before history decides to speak.

[super_realist]

The world may have to wait for the deaths of Blair and Bush before history decides to speak.

why so melodramatic these days Gael, you've always been cantankerous but you've got a somewhat bitter streak in you these days

[kwinigolfer]

Full disclosure would also be in the interests of the United States. No-one seems to have taken notice of the Cheney and Rumsfeld interviews/documentaries.
Perhaps they'd sit up and pay attention if the charades of Presidents Bush and Blair were fully exposed for what they were?
Any of interests of national security surely trumped by proper prosecution of war criminals??

[McLaren]

Any of interests of national security surely trumped by proper prosecution of war criminals??

Exactly my point, why would we need to protect a system that covers up war crimes evidence. How much more of a security breach could you commit?

[pedro]

Btw, where's the 10,000-drone-man-Obama in all this? If it all was in the US interest to uncover it I'm sure this second Messias of yours would take care of it?

[incontinentia]

And I say that as someone who marched against the war back in 2003 and still believes it, and Afghanistan, were huge mistakes.

Afghanistan at least had some link to 9/11, training camps etc.

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