Can We Stop The Nonsense?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You know what the funny thing is Haz loves Hagler and has him above FMJ and around the Top ten..

Hagler drew with the awful Vito in his prime..Not at 37!!!!

But that's ok ...

Oh dear someone has an agenda.

mobilemaster8 wrote:Good god some of the narrow minded fans make me laugh.

Floyd Mayweather won against a tough power puncher, end of. He landed more shots at a higher connect rate. Maidens threw 800 or so punches compared to Floyd's 400 or so, yet Floyd landed more shots. He lost the first three or four rounds, then came on late like he did with de la Hoya. I had Floyd winning by 116-112.  A good competitive fight.

But because of this, he won't sit in the all time top ten, even though his resume is brilliant.

Corrales
Castillo x2
Judah
Mosley
Hatton
Alvarez
De la Hoya
Hernandez
Ortiz
Maidana
Guerrero
Gatti


Etc etc etc. he has had a tough night with a couple of them, but their class names at the end of the day.

Lewis got sparked by Rahman and McCall and struggled with Vitali, but let's not have him in top 20 top heavyweights of all time.

Ali got beaten, let's not include him.
Pacifist got knocked the feck out by a guy Mayweather dominated....so let's throw him out the picture.

I think the fact is, and always will be , jealousy. The guy beats up Saul (who was being paraded as the coming of messiah, toughest test, young, fresh, big)...and it gets dismissed as Saul is too green or inexperienced.

The constant berating of a top quality fighter is ridiculous. Same with Pacquiao haters. Pathetic,

Their both world class operators and have fought top quality over their careers. Floyd and manny are top 20 ATG for me.

Floyd in top 5 and manny around 12.

Strongback wrote:You must have had the beer googles on or maybe the Floyd specs if you had that fight 116-112.  Even though Paulie Malinaggi was on Showtime where he has to toe the Mayweather line he couldn't hold back berating the judges scores.

If you had Floyd by one or two rounds you might have been credible.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Interested to know how many Top 10ers were number 1 at 37 ??

Maybe the OP can tell us...

Leonard wasn't 37 when an old Chavez trashed Camacho played with him..

Could of swore Mayweather won the other night..

Laughable...and illuminating as to the dislike rose tinters have for modern fighters....

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

milkyboy wrote:Some fights it just boils down to what you prefer/give credence to strongy.

I thought there were a fair few close rounds where maidana was pushing the fight, possibly landing more but not that cleanly, where the eyecatching stuff came from floyd. Easy to see a wide range in cards. Personally, I struggled to make a case for maidana winning it and I can see where a 116-112 card for floyd comes from, and I could just about make a case for a draw. I didn't keep a card, but felt floyd by 2-3, was about right.

I think the guys  who have maidana winning it are giving him the benefit of the doubt at every turn. But that's boxing, competitive fights are open to wide interpretation.

I give no benefit of the doubt to the high volume puncher at all, if he's throwing a lot and missing a lot that to me is ineffective aggression if the other guy is throwing half the amount but landing the cleaner more eye catching stuff.

88Chris05 wrote:Can see both arguments when it comes to the Leonard / Mayweather comparison, but I'd always go with Ray as it stands.

Appreciate that Leonard's record is short (only in terms of quantity) at the highest level, but whichever way you slice it, the fact is that he proved himself a better fighter than Mayweather has ever proven himself to be, at least in my eyes. Mayweather perhaps the more consistent one, the more intelligent one, the more 'successful' one....But better? Mayweather just hasn't proven conclusively that he could beat someone in the class of the Four Kings mould or who wouldn't look out of place in that group. Sure, that's partly down to circumstances and who is / was around to fight at the time. But when he finally had an opponent comparable to one of those Four Kings fellas in the shape of Pacquiao, he didn't take advantage.

Leonard beat a peak, undefeated Benitez. He beat a peak, undefeated Hearns. Came back and upset Hagler. Beat a near-prime Duran, even if people aren't always too overjoyed with the way he did it.

Mayweather's numbers and longevity are to be admired but for me, Ray's wins over Hearns, Benitez etc on their own equate to at least half a dozen wins combined on Mayweather's record against the Corrales, Judah, Marquez and Ortiz types.

If it was about who proved they had it all under the most intense pressure, on the biggest stage and against the best fighters, then Mayweather's not even in Leonard's class, strictly speaking. Fair enough, that's not all there is to it, so Mayweather's consistency, own impressive list of victims (and yes, they are impressive compared to just about anyone else's outside of a very, very tight group) and all-round talent are enough to make it close.....But when push comes to shove, while Mayweather might be at that Leonard level, he hasn't proved it the way Ray did, over and over again.

Leonard didn't age as well as Mayweather has, that's for sure, although I thought both Lalonde and Hearns II were really good fights if you strip away the general negativity that surrounds them and just watch how it unfolded in the ring. But Leonard set the bar a lot higher than Mayweather has in or around his peak years, and that'll always give him the advantage for me.

88Chris05 wrote:Can see both arguments when it comes to the Leonard / Mayweather comparison, but I'd always go with Ray as it stands.

Appreciate that Leonard's record is short (only in terms of quantity) at the highest level, but whichever way you slice it, the fact is that he proved himself a better fighter than Mayweather has ever proven himself to be, at least in my eyes. Mayweather perhaps the more consistent one, the more intelligent one, the more 'successful' one....But better? Mayweather just hasn't proven conclusively that he could beat someone in the class of the Four Kings mould or who wouldn't look out of place in that group. Sure, that's partly down to circumstances and who is / was around to fight at the time. But when he finally had an opponent comparable to one of those Four Kings fellas in the shape of Pacquiao, he didn't take advantage.

Leonard beat a peak, undefeated Benitez. He beat a peak, undefeated Hearns. Came back and upset Hagler. Beat a near-prime Duran, even if people aren't always too overjoyed with the way he did it.

Mayweather's numbers and longevity are to be admired but for me, Ray's wins over Hearns, Benitez etc on their own equate to at least half a dozen wins combined on Mayweather's record against the Corrales, Judah, Marquez and Ortiz types.

If it was about who proved they had it all under the most intense pressure, on the biggest stage and against the best fighters, then Mayweather's not even in Leonard's class, strictly speaking. Fair enough, that's not all there is to it, so Mayweather's consistency, own impressive list of victims (and yes, they are impressive compared to just about anyone else's outside of a very, very tight group) and all-round talent are enough to make it close.....But when push comes to shove, while Mayweather might be at that Leonard level, he hasn't proved it the way Ray did, over and over again.

Leonard didn't age as well as Mayweather has, that's for sure, although I thought both Lalonde and Hearns II were really good fights if you strip away the general negativity that surrounds them and just watch how it unfolded in the ring. But Leonard set the bar a lot higher than Mayweather has in or around his peak years, and that'll always give him the advantage for me.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I really what to know what Bob Mee thinks, having such a respected writer who's never boxed in his life telling me how things are is what we all need to know.

hazharrison wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I really what to know what Bob Mee thinks, having such a respected writer who's never boxed in his life telling me how things are is what we all need to know.

You would learn a lot from reading his work. In fact, you'd learn a lot from reading anyone's work.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Why the sudden change of opinion that Maidana's best weight is Welterweight then Haz or have you come to that conclusion because it suits your argument.

The thing is Leonard dodged Hagler for five years and then only fought him when he looked there for the taking against Mugabi, hardly the take on all comers was he. Then there's the whole middleweight division in general that he avoided to start the old man tour.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I really what to know what Bob Mee thinks, having such a respected writer who's never boxed in his life telling me how things are is what we all need to know.

You would learn a lot from reading his work. In fact, you'd learn a lot from reading anyone's work.

I have enough faith in my own knowledge to not have to rely on a writer, that is all he is a writer giving his opinion, nobody special, not somebody who knows what it's like to box or train just a writer.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:So Maidana is now a real Welterweight?

hazharrison wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I really what to know what Bob Mee thinks, having such a respected writer who's never boxed in his life telling me how things are is what we all need to know.

You would learn a lot from reading his work. In fact, you'd learn a lot from reading anyone's work.

I have enough faith in my own knowledge to not have to rely on a writer, that is all he is a writer giving his opinion, nobody special, not somebody who knows what it's like to box or train just a writer.

If you feel your opinion carries as much water as Mee's then good on you! Why don't you write to Sky - see if they'll take you on as a special advisor? Or write a book maybe? I wouldn't put too much of your savings into it mind you......

hazharrison wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:So Maidana is now a real Welterweight?

He looked it to me - beat up on the number one contender last night for long spells.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:So Maidana is now a real Welterweight?

He looked it to me - beat up on the number one contender last night for long spells.

You must have missed the silent beating Mayweather was dishing out, don't worry though somebody like Dan Rafael will enlighten us in 20 years time.