Rome 2014

First topic message reminder :

ATP Draw: http://www.atpworldtour.com/Share/Event-Draws.aspx?EventId=416&Year=2014

WTA Draw: http://www.wtatennis.com/singles-draws/tournamentId/643/round/7/rangeStart/1/rangeEnd/16

OoP:

Sunday, May 18, 2014

CENTRALE Start 1:30 pm
[1] Serena Williams (USA)
v
[10] Sara Errani (ITA)

Not Before 4:00 pm

[1] Rafael Nadal (ESP)
v
[2] Novak Djokovic (SRB)

PIETRANGELI Start 2:30 pm

[6] Daniel Nestor (CAN)
Nenad Zimonjic (SRB)
v
Robin Haase (NED)
Feliciano Lopez (ESP)

[4] Kveta Peschke (CZE)
Katarina Srebotnik (SLO)
v
[2] Sara Errani (ITA)
Roberta Vinci (ITA)

(Apologies for missing last two days. Been a bit under the weather).

No, god giving no.

Good start to the 3rd for Djokovic, but a very long way to go in this match

This ones all over bar the shouting IMO.

Djokovic has upped it and Nadal doesn't have anything to counter him with.

Come on Rafa, wake uppppp

slashermcguirk wrote:Boring??? Yeah I really miss the ace fest of 90s and early noughties!! Serve volley on every point.

As ever, the strawman argument of the extremes from the 90'sgets wheeled out.

No mention of the great tennis at the US, where a fast cement gave an equal contest to volleyer and baseliner. They've ruined that now though.

That second serve that Novak sent long on break point a few games ago is looking to be very decisive....

It's never over till it's over

Rafa's main problem is that Novak is also a scrapper like himself and will gladly relish dogfight-type tennis, blistering rallies and all.

Cracking match this from two legends of the game. Listening to all this negativity is really quite nauseating. History will paint these two players amongst the very best of all-time yet some posters here have a differing view point. Very odd.

Cc,  why odd? We have a right to not like someone,  or your talking from the Murray fan point,  which lacks general love from tennis fans?

Nothing odd here.

What's odd is people who can't tell the difference between stagnation of a sport, and attacking certain players.

I should be surprised, but I'm not. That kind of nuance troubles some.

Well it goodbye to the FO for Rafa, hes not good enough, ok when he went after it but hes not got it this year. Djoko will have to break both his legs to lose it this year

Cool. The good guy won in the end

Tennis is still good stuff, but its exactly the same as 3 years ago. Its gonna be worse soon once Fed retires., just need some new players that can live with these 2, the once that looked like they could have gotten injured or goe backwards a little

Djoko wins and deserved it, great 2 sets from him. Rafa ia perishing slowly.

Yes odd as in I'd say it is an odd view point (using a boxing analogy) if someone was trashing boxing when watching 'The Rumble in The Jungle' between two legends of that sport just like Nadal and Djokovic are today and will be for many years to come. Or akin to saying pop music was lousy with the rivalry between The Beatles and The Rolling Stones.

falzy21 wrote:Well it goodbye to the FO for Rafa, hes not good enough, ok when he went after it but hes not got it this year. Djoko will have to break both his legs to lose it this year

I tend to agree. I think Rafa will need someone else to take Djokovic out; it's happened before (most notably 2011, when Djokovic looked a certainty).

I can see somebody else taking Rafa out though. He's really not the player he was.

falzy21 wrote:Well it goodbye to the FO for Rafa, hes not good enough, ok when he went after it but hes not got it this year. Djoko will have to break both his legs to lose it this year

Getting your jinxes in early?

good match, shame some posters cant enjoy both guys but Djoko was great. Nadal played his part when he went after it, but nowhere near enough.

This win is for Serbia amd Bosnia, Djoko signs the cam. Floods bad there.

bogbrush wrote:What's odd is people who can't tell the difference between stagnation of a sport, and attacking certain players.

I should be surprised, but I'm not. That kind of nuance troubles some.

Lots and LOTS of people including most experts and ex-players, it's shocking isn't it? That they are all wrong and a tiny minority of people, who all share adoration of one player whose growing older and less successful has directly correlated with the drop in quality of tennis, are right with the polar opposite opinion. Some would say it defies logic

CaledonianCraig wrote:Yes odd as in I'd say it is an odd view point (using a boxing analogy) if someone was trashing boxing when watching 'The Rumble in The Jungle' between two legends of that sport just like Nadal and Djokovic are today and will be for many years to come. Or akin to saying pop music was lousy with the rivalry between The Beatles and The Rolling Stones.

Yeah, like they were changing the size of the ring, the length of the fight, the time allowed to recover after a punch, the rules on holding, etc.

Oh hang on, no they weren't.

So a rubbish analogy then. Oh well.

Stan- Djoko final in FO, Stan to take it

Congratulations to Novak and what a massive boost prior to the French Open. Rafa is leaking defeats on clay this year and he will not be comfortable with that going to the French Open. The most open French Open for many years I think.

He played well enough this week for me to beleive another guy isnt gonna get him over 5 sets. Djokos gonna have him with whipped cream and a brandy though, everytime he got back into the set he went central and passive and got made a fool out of as a result

Good win for Djokovic going into RG.

Congrats to Nole fans as well.

It's still the FO, the last fortress. Let's see what happens

Novak Djokovic = Legend! To come back from a set down on clay to nadal takes some doing. He played some amazing tennis in those last 2 sets.

Nadal is still the favourite for the French open. Anybody stating otherwise needs their head examined. Nadal always saves his best for the French!! Taking 3 sets off him on clay has proved nearly impossible over the years

ChequeredJersey wrote:

bogbrush wrote:What's odd is people who can't tell the difference between stagnation of a sport, and attacking certain players.

I should be surprised, but I'm not. That kind of nuance troubles some.

Lots and LOTS of people including most experts and ex-players, it's shocking isn't it? That they are all wrong and a tiny minority of people, who all share adoration of one player whose growing older and less successful has directly correlated with the drop in quality of tennis, are right with the polar opposite opinion. Some would say it defies logic

I'm telling you why the forum is empty. It's because there's nothing to talk about because nothing is changing.

What is the problem with some folk, that they get so excited to defend a hero that they jettison comprehension?

summerblues wrote:Cool.  The good guy won in the end

Your slip is showing, SB.

falzy21 wrote:Well it goodbye to the FO for Rafa, hes not good enough, ok when he went after it but hes not got it this year. Djoko will have to break both his legs to lose it this year

I wouldn't be so quick to write Rafa off for the French Open.

There is something about Rafa and Roland Garros that makes him such an institution at that tournament.

Remember Rafa has only once lost once at le terre batue in eight years.

Even at this stage in his career, I would never count Rafa out.

bogbrush wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Yes odd as in I'd say it is an odd view point (using a boxing analogy) if someone was trashing boxing when watching 'The Rumble in The Jungle' between two legends of that sport just like Nadal and Djokovic are today and will be for many years to come. Or akin to saying pop music was lousy with the rivalry between The Beatles and The Rolling Stones.

Yeah, like they were changing the size of the ring, the length of the fight, the time allowed to recover after a punch, the rules on holding, etc.

Oh hang on, no they weren't.

So a rubbish analogy then. Oh well.

Two great legends going head to head that is the analogy here. Boxing has changed in ways as well. The key is that we see two legends of the sport going head to head. If you cannot see that or accept that then perhaps you shouldn't bother watching it at all.

EDIT

I will add BB that you may not like their styles of play and that is up to you but that won't change the facts that these two will go down as legends of the game.

Hes still big in the French slasher, but the way he got handled today cant be ignored, he got somehwat lucky last year when he was playing miles better agsisnt Djoko, but this year he needs to either up his game 150% or get a miracle.

slashermcguirk wrote:Nadal is still the favourite for the French open.

Agree. If for no other reason, then because it is harder to see anyone beating him before the final. If they both get to the final, I would probably give better than 50% chance to Nole, but I think he is more likely to go out early than Rafa is.

laverfan wrote:

summerblues wrote:Cool.  The good guy won in the end

Your slip is showing, SB.

Well, it was not entirely unintentional

No one can say Rafa cant win FO, just that he aint at his top. But then again no one from top 8 is.

Rafa's Italian is pretty good; but then again there are lot of similarities to Spanish.

An outstanding performance by Djokovic.

I don't always enjoy watching Novak play; but I did today.

I was also hugely impressed by Andy Murray's quality v Rafa, which will surely have given him a major boost ahead of RG, barring any physical issues.

Both Novak and Andy made Rafa look relatively ordinary at times, and that's a pretty rare event on a clay court.

As others have said, Rafa is still a huge obstacle at his RG fortress, and this defeat, whilst damaging in some respects, could very well see him arrive in Paris in even more determined mood.

Wow.

I haven't seen the match yet, so I can't comment on the quality.

It just shows how crucial the stylistic match up in tennis is though. Rafa can impose his patterns of play on pretty much the whole tour but seems to have a nightmare with Novak.

Rafa wasn't running down every ball like he would do at RG and he did not look too disappointed. He did not want to give his life today, he really needed a better test from Dimitrov to shape him up..

CaledonianCraig wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Yes odd as in I'd say it is an odd view point (using a boxing analogy) if someone was trashing boxing when watching 'The Rumble in The Jungle' between two legends of that sport just like Nadal and Djokovic are today and will be for many years to come. Or akin to saying pop music was lousy with the rivalry between The Beatles and The Rolling Stones.

Yeah, like they were changing the size of the ring, the length of the fight, the time allowed to recover after a punch, the rules on holding, etc.

Oh hang on, no they weren't.

So a rubbish analogy then. Oh well.

Two great legends going head to head that is the analogy here. Boxing has changed in ways as well. The key is that we see two legends of the sport going head to head. If you cannot see that or accept that then perhaps you shouldn't bother watching it at all.

EDIT

I will add BB that you may not like their styles of play and that is up to you but that won't change the facts that these two will go down as legends of the game.

At this point is there any value in reminding you that I was telling you why the forum is empty, not making a critique of Nadal or Djokovic?

No, probably no point.

Novak donating all his prize money to the Serbian flood relief.

OK, I know he's incredibly wealthy and doesn't need the money but that's a very nice gesture.

bogbrush wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Yes odd as in I'd say it is an odd view point (using a boxing analogy) if someone was trashing boxing when watching 'The Rumble in The Jungle' between two legends of that sport just like Nadal and Djokovic are today and will be for many years to come. Or akin to saying pop music was lousy with the rivalry between The Beatles and The Rolling Stones.

Yeah, like they were changing the size of the ring, the length of the fight, the time allowed to recover after a punch, the rules on holding, etc.

Oh hang on, no they weren't.

So a rubbish analogy then. Oh well.

Two great legends going head to head that is the analogy here. Boxing has changed in ways as well. The key is that we see two legends of the sport going head to head. If you cannot see that or accept that then perhaps you shouldn't bother watching it at all.

EDIT

I will add BB that you may not like their styles of play and that is up to you but that won't change the facts that these two will go down as legends of the game.

At this point is there any value in reminding you that I was telling you why the forum is empty, not making a critique of Nadal or Djokovic?

No, probably no point.

Oh come on BB we all know the real reason.

BS brought up the point how busier it was last year and year before that. Now excuse me but I am pretty darn certain that messrs Rafa and Novak were still strutting their stuff then so their brand of tennis has nothing whatsoever to do with the quieter nature of this forum.

Like I said earlier a year or two ago the forum was much more readily populated by staunch Rafa fans who were very active posters but for their own reasons (which are pretty well-known) they left. Their posting quantity was lost and also the postersa who took part in the sport of baiting them had there sport removed so their posts ceased as well. That is the reason it is so quiet around here.

Worth one last try? Probably a waste but here goes.....

1. The length of time the game has been static matters. That means NOW is less interesting that THEN because it's been static for longer now.

2. Your theory imagines that loads of posters only came on here to argue with Haddie / deecoco, Amrit & aliases, and wooffie (who stopped ages ago). Yeah, right.....    I suppose lydian stopped for similar reasons as them (he didn't).

3. There is nothing to post about now that hasn't been posted about n hundred times before on the last three years. Nothing. New.

It's nothing to do with the forum, and definitely not the mods. It's the game.

Okay I do see what you are saying and I do see where you are coming from definitely.

I have run a forum for eight years now centering around one main topic and yes you do lose posters as subjects have been talked to death. Absolutely. But that does not denigrate from the subject matter being any less interesting or of high standard ie the superb standards of Rafa and Novak et al. It is merely that topics have been discussed to death but heck I'd sooner sit back and enjoy the tennis being served up at such a high standard than bemoan it because it makes the tennis section quiet.

I do still say that the quietness certainly has something to with what I referred to earlier. Many of those posters you (BB) referred to were regular and posted great swathes of posts and they have been lost so that certainly adds to the quietness noticed of late and would be foolish to try to dismiss that as a reason.

Congrats Djoko on a splendid win, IC will soon open a thread on the continuation of Rafa n clay season watch out.

Sorry I can't see how anyone can have Nadal as favourite for the French Open.

Yes he's an 8 time Roland Garros champion, but he's been average(maybe worst at times this year on European clay)

However great Nadal has been on clay, for me the greatest of all time, but every circle has it's end.

Nadal's on his knees at present.

Whilst Djokovic doesn't look as bigger favourite as 2011, he's easily the top dog heading in.

Nadal's second favourite, but a distance second favourite.

It has declined but I am not sure the section is "dying", that is at least too early to say. There does seem to be more of an anti-Nadal tendency to the forum these days, now that you mention there does seem to be less and less Nadal lovers on here than ever. Still, those people writing Nadal off on this thread, others, and other forums, do they never learn? I hope when they are proved right one year about Nadal being finished they remember all the other years when you called that wrong. People have been calling Nadal as finished every year for a while, and I supposed they will have to be right eventually, since he will not be winning slams at the age of 50.

I think 2011 (or 2008-2011) was probably a peak of tennis because Federer, Djokovic, Nadal, Murray all somewhere near their peak and all fit for most of the year. The Djokovic-Nadal rivalry reached its peak, the Federer-Djokovic one had its best year as well. The 2011 US Open final seemed in a sense to bring tennis to a new level, since then things have not improved much its true. Murray improved his level in 2012, but on the other hand there was the Rafa injury, then Federer in decline or injured or having a poor year in 2013.

A lot of us are old but youngsters discovering tennis more recently will not see it this way, and may be discovering the current high level of professional tennis anew. Also Nishikori and Raonic and Dimitrov starting to get some better results which is nice to see.

Tend to agree with Summer Blues that Djokovic would start favourite against Rafa at the FO but more susceptible in earlier rounds. At any rate, that has been historically true but let's see what happens this year.

My view on it is that the top 2 rivalry does often go with the form (and fitness, and who's in the zone). A lot of Nadal-Djokovic matches you could call in advance depending on who was on the up at the time, even to the extent of calling the US Open on mid-paced hard to Nadal in 2013 despite so many hard court losses to Djokovic. So if Nadal's form does not improve during the FO itself, then you would have to make Djokovic the favourite. This certainly is his chance. Today was not a classic but I felt it was a good warm up for the big one and perhaps they are gearing up for a classic if they do make it both to the final, both hoping to peak at the same time.

Very quick look on Odds Checker and Nadal is the favourite but by a wafer thin margin, there is very little between them unlike previous years when Nadal was the clear favourite. Don't quite see the logic of Warwinka at between 6-1 and 8-1 when Federer is at 14-1 or 20-1. I would not fancy Warwinka at those odds. I would rather have Murray at 25 or 40.

Lets hope Stan can have a go at FO. Thought Berdy,  Ferret etc might feel more fired up knowing Djoko-Nadal are not at their top.

Berdy, Ferret are a waste of time.

I understand them turning up for the money but they will never win a a Slam.