Nail your colours to the mast: Froch vs Groves 2 predicitons.

by Rodney Fri 23 May 2014, 1:21 pm

First topic message reminder :

Just over a week now to the big British rematch, how does everyone see this one going ? Your truthful offical prediction, you'll have no place to hide when you log on after the fight.

Whoever gets the correct outcome wins a grand, prizemoney to be donated by the Mods.

I see a tepid affair, much more strategic and cautious by both fighters, with Groves winning a comfortable decision something like 117-110. With a decider to happen in November.

Cheers Rodders

by Hammersmith harrier Sun 01 Jun 2014, 7:45 pm

I hate to say it BF88 but I told you so, blind faith pays off eventually.

by BoxingFan88 Sun 01 Jun 2014, 9:07 pm

Haha true, wasn't shocked by that outcome, always feel gutted for Groves though, really starts coming in to it, then BAM.

by Sugar Boy Sweetie Sun 01 Jun 2014, 11:15 pm

JabMachineMK2 wrote:
JabMachineMK2 wrote:I'm leaning towards Froch, but i believe it'll be better for British boxing if Groves wins.

I've rewatched the first fight twice and I can see where Groves had his moments and why Froch performed the way he did. Froch will be forced to defend with his left hand higher this time. If he doesn't it'll go the same way. Groves was feinting and the time it took for Froch to react with his hand that low was enough for Groves to land. It happened a few times and each time when Froch was hit he'd turn his body slightly to fight back, at that point Groves was gone or another right came through. It was all to do with Froch's defense in the first 3 rounds. He was sloppy and slow because he underestimated Groves' hunger and ability. Groves actually did something incredibly clever in the second and was range finding with a right cross while setting up left hooks for more work going inside. Landing 3/4 punches to Froch's one or two. The pace he set was relentless and it was a joke of a stoppage. I had Groves ahead by some way when it was stopped - he was clever and exploited Carls weaknesses perfectly.

If you watch Froch vs Bute, you can see his weaknesses there - Bute just wasn't hungry enough to actually work on him when he had a good shot land. It wasn't as impressive as all give credit for. go an watch it. Froch didn't show an incredible level of skill, his punches were just getting through. Its made him rely on his chin and power far too much. Against Kessler he was fighting someone who was pretty deteriorated from their first encounter. Froch II vs Kessler I gets knocked out for me.

Go back further and watch vs Abraham. This is the Carl Froch we need to see. He was jabbing efficiently and he was wary of Abrahams power. This meant he was coming forward and while on his toes, circling backwards when he was under attack. The left wasn't as low and he started strong. If we see that Froch - groves hasn't got a chance of getting past round 6/7. He'll be nullified and there won't be a hope in hell he's going to land.

Could age have had an effect on Carl though? Does he have an Abraham in the tank? For me - yes. He's not too old, he's got the skill in there, he needs to become wily and not stupid. I don;t think he's going to go in like he did in the first and assume he's going to deck him.

There's also the psychology of the fight. Groves is an annoying little turd now - Froch is seeing through the mind games, he didn't first time. Think that'll play into Froch's hands because Groves wanted the first round won before the bell sounded. Thats not happening this time and I think although he's shown himself to be exceptionally talented at exploiting the weaknesses - if they're not there he could come a cropper.

Froch TKO 8 if I was a betting man.

#justsayin'

It was a KO, not TKO Whistle

by milkyboy Sun 01 Jun 2014, 11:28 pm

It's actually the luckiest prediction ever. Firstly the premise was that carl would come on strong... But it was groves who seemed to be getting on top. Secondly, there was a one punch finish, the like of which froch has never produced before and gave no hint of doing during the fight. The third and final stroke of luck is that it was going to be a ko, but the ref was too lazy to count and stopped it while George was flat on his back.

Three wrongs made a right for you jabby. Terrible prediction, Nothing to get smug about.

by JabMachineMK2 Mon 02 Jun 2014, 1:40 am

Terrible prediction? Sorry what planet are you on? I predicted Froch would come out with his left hand higher. Happened. Worked behind the jab. Happened. He started strong. Happened.

Feel free to try and dissect what I predicted but i'm quite sure you'll see that you're wrong. I even said Groves wasn't getting past round 6/7 if we saw the Abraham version of Froch, which we did in a way. The only thing I got wrong was that it was a KO and not a TKO, apologies for thinking that Froch wouldn't end it with one punch.

by milkyboy Mon 02 Jun 2014, 6:45 am

I'll cut you some slack that you were tired when you posted the above in the middle of the night jabby, and that it's not that you are completely devoid of a sense of humour.

by TopHat24/7 Mon 02 Jun 2014, 9:10 am

At least I had money on Carl in rounds 7-9......... Sad

by JabMachineMK2 Mon 02 Jun 2014, 10:46 am

milkyboy wrote:I'll cut you some slack that you were tired when you posted the above in the middle of the night jabby, and that it's not that you are completely devoid of a sense of humour.

Or maybe I'm too used to people pulling apart what I say and I have a stupid defence mechanism!

Ah well, apologies for the tone.

by milkyboy Mon 02 Jun 2014, 11:19 am

No worries fella, I'd have used smilies, but according to hammer they're for childish imbecile's... And frankly I can manage childish and imbecilic on my own with the help of smilies!

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 02 Jun 2014, 11:25 am

I still think you should use smileys...Milky.

Good thing about Saturday is we've seen an end to Groves prefight psychology..

Getting into someone's head and then hitting the deck unconscious isn't how it's supposed to work..

by Strongback Mon 02 Jun 2014, 1:39 pm

Have I mentioned the accuracy of my prediction?

Threw a nifty on Froch at 4/6.

Normally stay away from odds on bets but this one seemed a no brainier to me.

by TopHat24/7 Mon 02 Jun 2014, 1:57 pm

What's clever about placing a bet at 4/6?? I got 4/1 on Froch 7-9.

by milkyboy Mon 02 Jun 2014, 2:07 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I still think you should use smileys...Milky.
.

... Guess if the cap fits eh.

Out if interest, does everyone who picked froch get to share the smug pie... Or just those who bet on it?

by catchweight Mon 02 Jun 2014, 2:09 pm

I once predicted a fight correctly too while everyone else is at it.

by Strongback Mon 02 Jun 2014, 2:16 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:What's clever about placing a bet at 4/6?? I got 4/1 on Froch 7-9.

You took a punt, I placed a bet on a fight where the odds on the winner were distorted because it was two British fighters in a big fight. In my view people betting on Groves was heart ruling the head stuff.

I'll also get great odds with English bookmakers on Italy beating England in the world cup.

by Strongback Mon 02 Jun 2014, 2:20 pm

milkyboy wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I still think you should use smileys...Milky.
.

... Guess if the cap fits eh.

Out if interest, does everyone who picked froch get to share the smug pie... Or just those who bet on it?

The people that chatted with you telling you Froch would win should be allowed to be extra smug.

by milkyboy Mon 02 Jun 2014, 2:22 pm

It is quite amusing, froch mid-late stoppage was the percentage call, and the world and his wife are claiming psychic powers.

Even mystic meg called it, with George's horoscope for the weekend 'you will meet a man who's name begins with c on Saturday. He will knock you off your feet and leave you dizzy'

by Strongback Mon 02 Jun 2014, 2:23 pm

Does Mystic Meg also work for Rupert Murdock?

by milkyboy Mon 02 Jun 2014, 2:31 pm

Good point strongy... The plot thickens

by Hammersmith harrier Mon 02 Jun 2014, 2:32 pm

milkyboy wrote:It is quite amusing, froch mid-late stoppage was the percentage call, and the world and his wife are claiming psychic powers.

Even mystic meg called it, with George's horoscope for the weekend 'you will meet a man who's name begins with c on Saturday. He will knock you off your feet and leave you dizzy'

Wasn't a difficult call to be fair, there's only reason to be smug if you call it spot on for the underdog.

by TopHat24/7 Mon 02 Jun 2014, 2:35 pm

Strongback wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:What's clever about placing a bet at 4/6?? I got 4/1 on Froch 7-9.

You took a punt, I placed a bet on a fight where the odds on the winner were distorted because it was two British fighters in a big fight. In my view people betting on Groves was heart ruling the head stuff.

I'll also get great odds with English bookmakers on Italy beating England in the world cup.

You saw value in 4/6?

Ok mate, whatever.

by TopHat24/7 Mon 02 Jun 2014, 2:39 pm

milkyboy wrote:It is quite amusing, froch mid-late stoppage was the percentage call, and the world and his wife are claiming psychic powers.

Even mystic meg called it, with George's horoscope for the weekend 'you will meet a man who's name begins with c on Saturday. He will knock you off your feet and leave you dizzy'

Exactly, percentage call therefore smartest bet - especially when you're getting 4/1.

I also hedged with a couple of quid on Groves to get off the canvas and win at 8/1. Was actually happy when he first went down, until the screens showed how hard!!

by JabMachineMK2 Mon 02 Jun 2014, 3:36 pm

I am allowing myself to feel smug because of the manner of which i predicted this, not the actual result. That was 50/50 in a lot of peoples eyes. I virtually called the fight.

by Strongback Mon 02 Jun 2014, 4:08 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Strongback wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:What's clever about placing a bet at 4/6?? I got 4/1 on Froch 7-9.

You took a punt, I placed a bet on a fight where the odds on the winner were distorted because it was two British fighters in a big fight. In my view people betting on Groves was heart ruling the head stuff.

I'll also get great odds with English bookmakers on Italy beating England in the world cup.

You saw value in 4/6?

Ok mate, whatever.

There's value in 1/10. Ask people who play the stock market.

Value is not decided by the odds on display. Value is when the odds are wrong in your favour. 4/6 after we had already seen the first fight played out was excellent value in my eyes. Good odds for the favourite in a two horse race.

by John Bloody Wayne Mon 02 Jun 2014, 7:57 pm

I wouldn't say I called the fight. Predicted Froch to stop him after six but I expected him to have taken a bit more, and Groves to be stopped more through attrition than blunt force trauma.

Still, I called a 50/50 fight the right way so I must be some sort of pugilistic expert.

Most of my football fan friends who've only ever seen Froch Groves 1 were all backing Groves because they've only seen one fight, so I am a little smug in that regard. Didn't take it to the bookies but won money off friends!

by TopHat24/7 Tue 03 Jun 2014, 9:31 am

Strongback wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
Strongback wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:What's clever about placing a bet at 4/6?? I got 4/1 on Froch 7-9.

You took a punt, I placed a bet on a fight where the odds on the winner were distorted because it was two British fighters in a big fight. In my view people betting on Groves was heart ruling the head stuff.

I'll also get great odds with English bookmakers on Italy beating England in the world cup.

You saw value in 4/6?

Ok mate, whatever.

There's value in 1/10. Ask people who play the stock market.

Value is not decided by the odds on display. Value is when the odds are wrong in your favour. 4/6 after we had already seen the first fight played out was excellent value in my eyes. Good odds for the favourite in a two horse race.

by Rodney Thu 05 Jun 2014, 12:30 pm

Well another predicition up in smoke, must say dont know what fight Jim Watt was watching only just watched in on TV and had Groves ahead both in attendance and on TV.

Was anyone else on the pitch who attended ? Dont know if this is a given when you attend a stadium fight (this was my first) but security completely lost control when the main event started. Everyone stood on the seats from the entrances right up until the beginning of the fight, I was in 100 pound seats and couldnt see a thing until I noticed everyone was walking down the aisle and standing, I ended up in the 500 seats about 10 metres from the action, but the security was abysmal I'm surprised it didnt go up. Amazing event but I must say the O2 generated just as good or better atmosphere.

Cheers Rodders

by **88Chris05** Thu 05 Jun 2014, 1:53 pm

Don't know about you, Rodders, but I was surprised by how (relatively) little support Groves had in the stadium. Had the rematch taken place in February / March, when Groves was still riding the wave of public sympathy, I reckon he'd have had the lion's share of the crowd, particularly as Froch didn't cover himself with glory with some of his comments earlier in the year. But the nearer the fight got the more people seemed to tire of Groves' opportunism in bringing up the first fight and all its fall-out (Froch telling him to f off immediately afterwards when he went to shake hands etc) and the attempted mind games.

As a result I was expecting a pretty even split or perhaps a very small minority in favour of Groves (my sister was at the weigh in and said it seemed that way, albeit I guess most folks from outside London wouldn't have been making the trip until the next day), but it was nowt like that at all. A very pro-Froch crowd considering the location. I had one Londoner right behind me cheering Groves on, but that aside we had a group of scousers in front of us, a couple of brummies to my left and some type of southern dandies or another to our right who were all cheering Froch on pretty loudly.

I was in the stands mate, lower tier towards the corner where Groves entered from so cannae really comment on your security points. Seemed tight enough where we were. The atmosphere was fantastic, I thought (mind you, when it comes to stadiums we're lucky if we get 25,000 down at Forest so a bit of an eye-opener for me!) but daft as it may sound as there was only 9,000 there, it wasn't as intense and bear-pit as it was at the Froch-Bute fight. But still pretty damn great!

by milkyboy Thu 05 Jun 2014, 2:04 pm

Your sister goes to fight weigh-ins? Is she a boxing buff, or is it a men in the buff thing?

by Guest Thu 05 Jun 2014, 2:12 pm

It's men in the buff...she's been hanging round my house for months now

by Rodney Thu 05 Jun 2014, 2:15 pm

Yeah I thought that Chris in regards to Groves popularity which I was surprised with, especially when I entered Wembley around 545ish and many were wearing the St George capes and t-shirts I was expecting pro Groves crowd. The security was extremely tight beforehand checking wrist band (for the pitch) and ticket everytime you went for a drink/toilet etc but when the main event started they lost control, not that im complaining now.

Great event and I thought the tube organisation was outstanding I was back to Marylebone where I was staying 30 mins after the fight ended.

Cheers Rodders

by Rowley Thu 05 Jun 2014, 2:21 pm

So what are you saying Rodders, the evening was reasonably well organised and there were no major transport issues. Do you want to PM strongy with the good news?

by **88Chris05** Thu 05 Jun 2014, 2:39 pm

Ruddy 'ell, Rodney - how did you manage that? We didn't get back to my sister's place until 1 in the morning!

I take it you were straight out of there as soon as the fight ended then, mate? We stayed for the post-fight interviews, picture snapping etc. By the time we got out (about 11, I'm guessing) the crowd for the tube was insane and we were so far back we suspected we'd never get on before the service ended. So instead we went to the other side of the stadium and bussed it to Euston and then to Islington where my sister lives. Perfect reminder of why I could never live down there!

I think it's a bit of both with regards to the sister, milky. She knows her boxing but I think it helped that the weigh in allowed her to catch a glimpse of the man she's dubbed 'Enjoyable Eddie.'

by jimdig Thu 05 Jun 2014, 2:44 pm

Not that well organised. A guy I work with was at it (a surprise to me), and he didn't enjoy it, he was shocked there was no commentary. Eddie missed a trick there. He should of had jim watt on the P.A. system turned up to 11.

by Strongback Thu 05 Jun 2014, 2:46 pm

Rowley wrote:So what are you saying Rodders, the evening was reasonably well organised and there were no major transport issues. Do you want to PM strongy with the good news?

Did you miss the part were he said it was chaos when the fight started. Imagine paying £500 and having Rodder's sticking his noggin in your way.

by Guest Thu 05 Jun 2014, 2:50 pm

Strongback wrote:
Rowley wrote:So what are you saying Rodders, the evening was reasonably well organised and there were no major transport issues. Do you want to PM strongy with the good news?

Did you miss the part were he said it was chaos when the fight started. Imagine paying £500 and having Rodder's sticking his nob in in your face.

Fixed that for ya

by Rodney Thu 05 Jun 2014, 2:53 pm

Ha I was surprised myself how well organised it was, I was expecting it to be like a Hen pen on the pitch but it was great. Yeah Chris we were out of there soon as the punch landed, watching the replays on the way out, it was still chaotic into Wembley Park but always moving & before I knew it I was on the tube.

Jim it wouldve caused a riot putting Jim Watt on the P.A, by the way how loud was the bell ?? ears are still ringing.

Cheers Rodders

by TopHat24/7 Thu 05 Jun 2014, 2:55 pm

88Chris05 wrote:Ruddy 'ell, Rodney - how did you manage that? We didn't get back to my sister's place until 1 in the morning!

I take it you were straight out of there as soon as the fight ended then, mate? We stayed for the post-fight interviews, picture snapping etc. By the time we got out (about 11, I'm guessing) the crowd for the tube was insane and we were so far back we suspected we'd never get on before the service ended. So instead we went to the other side of the stadium and bussed it to Euston and then to Islington where my sister lives. Perfect reminder of why I could never live down there!

I think it's a bit of both with regards to the sister, milky. She knows her boxing but I think it helped that the weigh in allowed her to catch a glimpse of the man she's dubbed 'Enjoyable Eddie.'

I told Damien to go via Marylebone!! Train from Wembley Stadium station, opposite side of the stadium from the tube, takes the same amount of time into London (Marylebone vs Baker St) and isn't half as crowded and pee-easy to get to.

Like Rodders says we were in Marylebone 30 mins max after the fight ended, were down a boozer in Zoho by 1130!!

by milkyboy Thu 05 Jun 2014, 2:57 pm

88Chris05 wrote:Ruddy 'ell, Rodney - how did you manage that? We didn't get back to my sister's place until 1 in the morning!

I take it you were straight out of there as soon as the fight ended then, mate? We stayed for the post-fight interviews, picture snapping etc. By the time we got out (about 11, I'm guessing) the crowd for the tube was insane and we were so far back we suspected we'd never get on before the service ended. So instead we went to the other side of the stadium and bussed it to Euston and then to Islington where my sister lives. Perfect reminder of why I could never live down there!

I think it's a bit of both with regards to the sister, milky. She knows her boxing but I think it helped that the weigh in allowed her to catch a glimpse of the man she's dubbed 'Enjoyable Eddie.'

She goes for the oily barrow boy look then.... I could be in there !!

by Mind the windows Tino. Thu 05 Jun 2014, 3:00 pm

A guy I work with went and he said some chaps a few rows front of him were snorting lines of nose-bag between fights! I kid you not!

by **88Chris05** Thu 05 Jun 2014, 3:07 pm

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:A guy I work with went and he said some chaps a few rows front of him were snorting lines of nose-bag between fights! I kid you not!

They were doing the same two rows behind us, Tina. Can sort you out if you drop me a PM.

by Mind the windows Tino. Thu 05 Jun 2014, 3:09 pm

88Chris05 wrote:
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:A guy I work with went and he said some chaps a few rows front of him were snorting lines of nose-bag between fights! I kid you not!

They were doing the same two rows behind us, Tina. Can sort you out if you drop me a PM.

Far too old for that now!

Perhaps you were sitting two rows in front of the chaps who were a few rows in front of my colleague.

by JabMachineMK2 Thu 05 Jun 2014, 3:28 pm

88Chris05 wrote:allowed her to catch a glimpse of the man she's dubbed 'Enjoyable Eddie.'

R.I.P Strongback 2k14

by 3fingers Thu 05 Jun 2014, 5:19 pm

jimdig wrote:Not that well organised. A guy I work with was at it (a surprise to me), and he didn't enjoy it, he was shocked there was no commentary.

Was he serious? What did he mean?

by TopHat24/7 Thu 05 Jun 2014, 6:01 pm

Yeh, def a strange one there. Proper schoolboy error.

Not like you get commentary at a footy match there!!

by **ShahenshahG** Thu 05 Jun 2014, 6:58 pm

I reckon Froch will knock him out in the 8th round. You see, everyone thinks that Groves was robbed in the first but Groves knows in his heart that he was tiring so he might have struggled anyway. I think he would have more success if he continued in the same fashion in this fight but he might have been spooked by his own empty tank and he might sit back to outbox Froch. As successful as this is going to be it will still allow Froch to back him up into the ropes where he'll get tangled up and offer several opportunities even while sneaking the bulk of the rounds. Sadly this means that Froch - who has been fighting at such a high level and is in cricketing terms is a set batsman who can punish the bowler even where theres only the slightest opportunity to score - will eventually use that to exploit an opening and K T F O Saint George.

Fingers crossed that i'm wrong but unlikely.

by Rodney Thu 05 Jun 2014, 7:10 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:I reckon Froch will knock him out in the 8th round. You see, everyone thinks that Groves was robbed in the first but Groves knows in his heart that he was tiring so he might have struggled anyway. I think he would have more success if he continued in the same fashion in this fight but he might have been spooked by his own empty tank and he might sit back to outbox Froch. As successful as this is going to be it will still allow Froch to back him up into the ropes where he'll get tangled up and offer several opportunities even while sneaking the bulk of the rounds. Sadly this means that Froch - who has been fighting at such a high level and is in cricketing terms is a set batsman who can punish the bowler even where theres only the slightest opportunity to score - will eventually use that to exploit an opening and K T F O Saint George.

Fingers crossed that i'm wrong but unlikely.

Well done Shah, the mods will be in touch with your prize. Hope the penthouse in Cannes, is to your liking.

Cheers Rodders

by milkyboy Thu 05 Jun 2014, 7:20 pm

Mystic shah, can you furnish me with last week's winning lottery numbers while you're on a roll?

by kingraf Thu 05 Jun 2014, 7:21 pm

Lemme dig up my prediction.

by **ShahenshahG** Thu 05 Jun 2014, 7:23 pm

milkyboy wrote:Mystic shah, can you furnish me with last week's winning lottery numbers while you're on a roll?

Sorry, but when I was seeing the aforementioned vision, Lee Froch's face came up and it cracked. Its being repaired. Ask me for this weeks numbers next week and i'll see what I can do.

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