French Open discussion thread

[Mad for Chelsea]

First topic message reminder :

I thought it was about time we got one of these started. While Federer surprisingly (cough cough) had the advantage of starting his campaign nice and early on day 1, Djokovic is currently in action against Sousa of Portugal. Also on at the moment we have everyone's favourite Briton... James Ward. He's been handed a tough draw against Tommy Robredo, but is battling hard, despite being a break down in the first.

We're also due our first major upset over on court 1, with Nishikori on his way out against Klizan. Injury issues? Finally we have Mahut vs Kukushkin in a pleasant match between two talented shot-makers. That one's at one set all, with the intriguing possibility of the winner meeting Isner in R2.

EDIT: in the time it took me to write this one, Ward has broken back, and is level at 3-3, well done that man .

[socal1976]

Stan has admitted to getting very frustrated with himself when he's not playing at his best.

It's a challenging situation to navigate. He's tasted the success of winning the biggest events but I suspect he also knows that he can only do so on a 10/10 performance. If he's not at his best, there are a number of other players whose 'base level' is higher and his chances are hugely diminished.

For most of his career, a decent run to a QF or SF have been classed as a success. Now the parameters have changed and anything less than a win must feel like somewhat of a disappointment. It must be harder to fight tooth and nail for an outcome that doesn't excite him as much anymore.

I also don't think he's an especially tactical player. I'm not sure he has a great ability to change things up a bit when Plan A isn't working.

It's tough though. Djokovic is a consistently good, resilient player now but he had his trials and tribulations for years following his first slam. Novak had time on his side but Stan won his maiden slam as he was approaching 29.

Great post Murdoch and I totally agree. Wawrinka can beat anyone on his day and lose to anyone on his day. I feel his biggest weakness is not so much tactically as I think he can move in use a little slice and do a lot of defending as well from the back of the court. His big issue for me is he is so serve dominant. If he gets down a break in the set who would you favor coming back from that deficit Stan or lets say Murray, Fed, Djoko, or Nadal. He has improved his return but he isn't a kind of player that gets a lot of breaks. If the other guy is serving really well or Wawrinka isn't he can get into a lot of trouble. I didn't see the match and would like to check out the stats but in the past this was a big problem for him.

[HM Murdock]

Socal, yes, you're right.

With the exception of Federer (who's the exception to pretty much every rule), the most successful recent players have not been those whose serve is hard to break (JMDP, Berdych, Tsonga) but those who are good at breaking serve (Nadal, Djokovic, Murray).

Djokovic and Murray seem to have as many, if not more, lapses and mad moments as the guys outside the traditional Big 4. The difference is that the quality of their return game means losing their own serve is not the huge blow it is to many others.

[HM Murdock]

Socal - by the way, what are you doing awake at this hour?

[socal1976]

Murdoch fed is currently 9th in return games won and Wawrinka is 17th. Murray, Nadal, Djoko, and Ferrer are all much higher up on the list than fed. He just doesn't do enough of the return. In fact, this is probably the best he has ever returned. The players that can make comebacks in sets and matches are usually the guys who can get breaks, Wawrinka isn't that kind of player. If someone is serving lights out he can be in big trouble, or if he himself doesn't serve well he can get into a lot of trouble as well.

[socal1976]

I am in Iran hommie on a long business family related matter that is why I am having trouble finding the FO.

[HM Murdock]

I am in Iran hommie on a long business family related matter that is why I am having trouble finding the FO.

Oh right, so you are now 3.5 hours ahead of us rather than 8 hours behind!

Have you seen anything of Novak? He's playing well enough to get my hopes up which inevitably means a more painful disappointment sometime in the next week and a half!

[socal1976]

I am in Iran hommie on a long business family related matter that is why I am having trouble finding the FO.

Oh right, so you are now 3.5 hours ahead of us rather than 8 hours behind!

Have you seen anything of Novak? He's playing well enough to get my hopes up which inevitably means a more painful disappointment sometime in the next week and a half!

Not much pirated Satellite from turkey with lots of disruptions in service have to go hunting on the various bands tonight. Our regular channels are knocked out either by the provider or our friends in the government. I think if his wrist holds up he just might do it judging by recent form.

[kingraf]

Haven't watched too much myself. Between Nadal playing 21 games on Monday, and Li Na being knocked out so quick, can't really be bothered.

[CaledonianCraig]

A comfortable straight sets win for Rafa over Thiem and he looks to be getting into a worrying (for the rest) groove. Andy Murray about to get under way against Matosevic.

[lags72]

Doubt if Dominic Thiem has put more effort/energy into a tennis match and get so little by way of reward. At least he was not overawed by the occasion.

He hit some fine shots, and the SHBH was great to see from one so young. He looked strong and agile enough to have caused problems for many others in the draw ....pity we won't see more of him at this year's RG.

As for Rafa ..... a very comfortable win, he is functioning smoothly with not a hint of any gremlins. And the end result was that Thiem - like countless others over the years - found out just what it's like to play really well yet not get even close to troubling the RG King.

[HM Murdock]

I didn't see Rafa's match but the winners/errors make interesting reading:

Nadal
16/19

Thiem
27/41

Was Rafa just keeping things tight and letting Thiem unravel?

[Gerry SA]

TBH not been very impressed with Nadal thus far. And yes that surprising for a player who's only lost 10 games in 6 sets.

His length still isn't good enough to beat someone like Djokovic. And most worrying for him, his forehand lacks the width it once had. Thus allowing his opponent to cover less of the court, than was the case in years gone by.

The way Nadal's playing at present I think he'll struggle to beat Ferrer in the 1/4s.

[HM Murdock]

His length still isn't good enough to beat someone like Djokovic.

Should they meet, this to me is single most important factor that will decide the outcome.

The depth of Rafa's shot up to and including USO last year was immaculate. Since then he's been dropping a lot of shots short and Djokovic has been punishing them.

[Gerry SA]

His length still isn't good enough to beat someone like Djokovic.

Should they meet, this to me is single most important factor that will decide the outcome.

The depth of Rafa's shot up to and including USO last year was immaculate. Since then he's been dropping a lot of shots short and Djokovic has been punishing them.

Spot on HMH

Even Ginepri had chances against Nadal, but was taking wild swings against the wrong balls. Ginepri could've avoided both bagels if he's just waited for the short stuff Nadal was dishing.

[kingraf]

Think Nadal chased topspin a little too much. He kept getting newer strings that allowed him to take bigger cuts at the ball... the problem is, while he can take bigger cuts and the ball will still stay in, he also needs to take bigger cuts just to find some length, which he can't quite do when the ball comes back a little quicker, so he has to stand further back to buy some time for bigger swings, which now have to be even bigger to make up for the strings and added distance.

[lags72]

Well well ....... lots of perceived problems with the state of Rafa's game but for my part I'm firmly of the opinion that he remains the ultimate obstacle here at Roland Garros.

In a number of his winning years (notably 2011) there have been similar dire predictions of an impending downfall, with all manner of explanations as to why it's about to happen. Obviously he cannot win here forever, and will be dethroned at some point. And maybe within the next week or so. But the fact is .... Rafa can see out a five-setter on clay even when some way below his best ; in contrast to his opponent, who has to be at his very best on the day.

[antonico]

His length still isn't good enough to beat someone like Djokovic.

Should they meet, this to me is single most important factor that will decide the outcome.

Well, that. Or the single most important factor will be whether Djokovic can hold Serve or not. He's dropped his Serve three times already in his first two matches here. If that doesn't improve ASAP it's doubtful he will reach a Final here, given the road ahead of him. Cilic is someone who give him a long match and take a set. If Djokovic faces Tsonga in the 4th Round, Jo-Willy is more than capable of taking two sets from him on clay - and even beat him. When they met here in 2012 Tsonga held Match Points on Djokovic. If that test is passed, Raonic could be waiting in the QF, and Milos already took a set from Djokovic in Rome. And then likely either Federer or Berdych, both of whom have wins over Djokovic on clay. If Djokovic thinks he can drop Serve that routinely against this remaining group and get by them - well, that I'd like to see. Djokovic will need his Serve to be working if he wants to beat any or all of these players he could face.

[CaledonianCraig]

Another workmanlike performance from Andy in beating Marinko Matosevic 6-3 6-1 6-3. He served better today but bigger challenges lie ahead starting with Kohlschreiber in the Third Round. An extra few ranking points go into the bank in any case.

[Jahu]

Djoko has been barking around newspapers that this is not his maximum so far amd he can up it up and has reserves. I guess Becker teaching him to intimidate other players a little and not just be half funny and advertise crappy Peugeot on even crappier Uniqlo uniform   

[CaledonianCraig]

I take it Jahu hates Djokovic?   

[lags72]

Andy has done a very solid job against both opponents to date. Nothing can be taken for granted .... even big names are vulnerable in early rounds of Slams, as these past few days have proved.

If he can reproduce the sort of form he showed v Rafa in Rome, I see no reason why he cannot go further than he ever has here at RG.

[HM Murdock]

I take it Jahu hates Djokovic?   

I think it's like a boy at school pulling the pigtails of the girl he secretly fancies.  

[Jahu]

CC & HM have always my respect   

Andy was good today, but Im having trouble scaling the goodness of Nadal, Djoko, Fed or Murray so far with the players they played so far.

Thought Fed looks first to fall from these 4.

Lets see how second week rolls out.

[Jahu]

HM, you are just downright nasty   

[HM Murdock]

Well, that. Or the single most important factor will be whether Djokovic can hold Serve or not. He's dropped his Serve three times already in his first two matches here.

If Rafa gets good length on his shots and, in turn, the right court position, I think Djokovic can serve well and still lose, especially on clay.

You're right about his draw though, it looks tough. Cilic in round 3 and perhaps Tsonga in round 4 are both particularly tricky opponents for relatively early rounds.

He dropped serve 3 times in his first match I believe, and also made hard work of serving out all three sets. The performance v Chardy was better.

[HM Murdock]

HM,  you are just downright nasty   

I've come to enjoy your digs at Novak though. Although you haven't commented on the attractiveness, or otherwise, of his ears recently. That's always my favourite line of attack.  

[Jahu]

HM, I'm softer on him now as he will be a daddy soon, so respect for his hard work off the court. He deserves some time out from me   

[TopoftheChops]

good win for muzza today but Kohlschreiber will beat him next round

[lags72]

good win for muzza today but Kohlschreiber will beat him next round

And you're as confident of this as with your "Nadal will lose to Thiem in the second round" ???

[naxroy]

dont see a problemfor rafa untill ferrer, and in normal circumstances it should be easy even then. but this year has us all with doubts about nadal.

my bet is he will make the final with no much problem. but then if djokovic awaits him there.... I dont know what would happen

[The Special Juan]

I think the hard work begins now for Mr Murray. On grass or hard, I'd say he'd have one foot in the semis but Kohli, Verdasco, Fognini and Monfils could all give him grief on clay.

[naxroy]

I dont see murray on semis. I really like murray, but I just dont see it

[Danny_1982]

Yeah Kohli is dangerous for Muzza. On this surface he could easily lose that one. Same against Monfils. Basically, as Juan and nox say above., from this point onwards it's uphill for Muzza.

But that's why I like watching him on clay. Can just sit back and enjoy with little expectation.

[CaledonianCraig]

I'd be happy with Andy reaching the quarters here meaning healthy ranking points in the bank and builds a bit more confidence going into the grass court season. If he can up his levels to like he displayed V Rafa the other week then the semis are a real possibility.

Kohlschreiber has the game that causes Andy problems so that is a potential banana skin. I would fancy his chances against Monfils who is regularly prone to implosion and largely flatters to deceive. Verdasco is solid but hasn't a great history in the past V Murray in terms of winning.

[TopoftheChops]

good win for muzza today but Kohlschreiber will beat him next round

And you're as confident of this as with your "Nadal will lose to Thiem in the second round" ???

Absolutely. I thought Thiem was decent today, he's certainly got a future in the game

[Born Slippy]

If Murray reaches the QF then I think that will probably be enough to get him a top 4 seeding for Wimbledon. However, I would make him slight underdog against Kohli. If he does come through that though with something to spare then we have a better idea of where his game is before wimbledon.

[summerblues]

If he can reproduce the sort of form he showed v Rafa in Rome, I see no reason why he cannot go further than he ever has here at RG.

I.e., reach the final, i.e., beat Rafa in the semis?  I am all for it.

[The Special Juan]

The top female players are doing their best to hand it to Sharapova this year. Now Aggie Radwanska is down a set and a break with her opponent needing to hold twice to win.

[The Special Juan]

The kids are taking over.

[lags72]

Well they're hardly kids in the way that Hingis, Seles, Austin et al were kids .......... but I know what you mean ! Clear signs of a changing of the guard.

I keep hoping for something similar to happen in the men's game. But it's looking increasingly like a new generation will only break through to the big time once the more familiar names eventually wear themselves out.

[The Special Juan]

The young adults are taking over!

I think it's a "false dawn". Ok, Serena was beaten fair and square which is a wonderful achievement but Radwanska and (to a lesser extent) Li Na aren't quite Sharapova and Azarenka, the former still being in the tournament and the latter being injured. Simona Halep's rise from nowhere has proven that the women's game is fickle, just like it has been for as long as I can remember.

[lags72]

Tursunov hanging very tough with Federer in the early part of their opener.

The Swiss One looks error-prone, and this has signs of becoming something of a battle .......

[The Special Juan]

He better sort it out before he meets Ernests in the next round. I hope that one's televised.

[The Special Juan]

Meanwhile, Djokovic has been unlucky in drawing Cilic this early on. Marin was the major danger player in that 16-32 bracket and has come out hammering the ball, gaining an early break in the process.

[lags72]

And I'm now thinking upset more than battle.

Tursunov looks very calm & composed.

As ever, so does Fed ; but he's far below his best today in these first few games.

[The Special Juan]

You were saying, lags?

Meanwhile, Cilic has begun to shoot himself in both feet.

[lags72]

I never cease to be amazed at how often it happens, but here we go again. Just when he was looking vulnerable, Federer wakes up at the crucial stage and snatches the first set.

But I really don't think Tursunov is out of this ......

Djokovic not having it easy v Cilic

[HM Murdock]

Djokovic not having it easy v Cilic

Cilic in round 3 and, potentially, Tsonga in round 4 are both tough draws for those stages of the tournaments.

With Federer perhaps in the SF, it's a pretty tough draw!

[lags72]

Novak on his way now, takes first 6-3 and Cilic will be feeling the Serbian heat.

(well he would if it wasn't so cold .......)

[The Special Juan]

Don't worry HM, Cilic should fold now. I can't see him getting anywhere now.

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