French Open discussion thread

[Mad for Chelsea]

First topic message reminder :

I thought it was about time we got one of these started. While Federer surprisingly (cough cough) had the advantage of starting his campaign nice and early on day 1, Djokovic is currently in action against Sousa of Portugal. Also on at the moment we have everyone's favourite Briton... James Ward. He's been handed a tough draw against Tommy Robredo, but is battling hard, despite being a break down in the first.

We're also due our first major upset over on court 1, with Nishikori on his way out against Klizan. Injury issues? Finally we have Mahut vs Kukushkin in a pleasant match between two talented shot-makers. That one's at one set all, with the intriguing possibility of the winner meeting Isner in R2.

EDIT: in the time it took me to write this one, Ward has broken back, and is level at 3-3, well done that man .

[The Special Juan]

Love it! Andy serves up a 5th set bagel on The Greatest Athlete The Game Has Ever Seen.

Let's hope it's the Andy of sets 1, 2 and 5 who turns up in the semi final and not that strange bloke playing in yellow in sets 3 and 4.

Come on, you're not allowed to be that skeptical about the media's taglines...

Your man's the greatest athlete. No question. (See Australia 2012).

[Danny_1982]

Murray started looking fatigued towards the end of the third. It was a second wind, sheer desire and a French collapse that helped him in the fifth.

But if ur struggling after 2 hours v Monfils, good luck v Rafa!! He just has to be ultra aggressive and see what happens. I give him little hope personally, but I'm pleased with his efforts anyway.

[kingraf]

Love it! Andy serves up a 5th set bagel on The Greatest Athlete The Game Has Ever Seen.

If it makes you feel better, Jimmy Courier is in full agreement.

[Jahu]

And when Jimmy says it, its done.

[CaledonianCraig]

720 valuable ranking points for Murray.

That is how I see it. I cannot see him beating Rafa.

I wouldn't say he can't beat Nadal.

But two five setters take their toll. And Nadal will try and run Murray off the court.

Still I'd give Murray a 30/70 chance.

I just think this is one battle too far. The only way I can see Murray winning is in straight sets as, like you say, he has had a few marathon matches now and Nadal will be much the fresher player. If it turns into another marathon there will be only one winner. To give himself an iota of a chance he has to win the first set.

[skyeman]

Murray did look dead in the legs, but everything Monfils hit went out.

Was it the pressure of coming back and getting within distance.

A monumental implosion.

[kingraf]

And when Jimmy says it, its done.

Tbh - I couldn't be bothered if anyone agreed or not - it's hardly worth effort to argue this point.

[whocares]

I dont think Monfils problem was fitness. His problem was murray seriously raising his game out of nowhere. He probably went into autopilot in the 5th thinking it would be easy. As someone said above, it's the difference between good players and slam/master winners.

[CaledonianCraig]

Murray started looking fatigued towards the end of the third. It was a second wind, sheer desire and a French collapse that helped him in the fifth.

But if ur struggling after 2 hours v Monfils, good luck v Rafa!! He just has to be ultra aggressive and see what happens. I give him little hope personally, but I'm pleased with his efforts anyway.  

I think a few things happened in that last set. Murray was being riled by the crowd and I reckon he sensed injustice when the referee told him play would continue. He channelled those frustrations into firing himself up. Monfils, on the other hand, switched off thinking he had the match in the bag and wanted a quick breather at the start of the set but he was in for a nasty shock. You just cannot switch yourself on and off like that - as we saw with Murray in the fourth set it will lose you a set.

[Guest]

My Thursday will be spent praying for a miracle for Friday

[banbrotam]

I mean hes utterly screwed against rafa, but COME ON!

I agree. I'd take a honourable quick defeat right now

Don't want him having some slug-fest and carrying it over into Wimby

[HM Murdock]

Love it! Andy serves up a 5th set bagel on The Greatest Athlete The Game Has Ever Seen.

Let's hope it's the Andy of sets 1, 2 and 5 who turns up in the semi final and not that strange bloke playing in yellow in sets 3 and 4.

Come on, you're not allowed to be that skeptical about the media's taglines...  

Your man's the greatest athlete.  No question.  (See Australia 2012).

No, I rather like it.

On the basis that, despite a complete lack of big titles, Monfils can be declared The Best Athlete In The Game... Ever, I'm not going to let a lack of advanced qualifications stop me declaring myself The Cleverest Person In The World.

[skyeman]

My Thursday will be spent praying for a miracle for Friday

Aye, come on Gulbis  

[banbrotam]

Murray did look dead in the legs, but everything Monfils hit went out.

Was it the pressure of coming back and getting within distance.

A monumental implosion.

Often in sporting contests the catching up is easy - once you are asked to go ahead for the first time, then it gets hard, i.e. US Open 2012 or Ashes 2005 at Edgbaston

[banbrotam]

Love it! Andy serves up a 5th set bagel on The Greatest Athlete The Game Has Ever Seen.

Let's hope it's the Andy of sets 1, 2 and 5 who turns up in the semi final and not that strange bloke playing in yellow in sets 3 and 4.

Come on, you're not allowed to be that skeptical about the media's taglines...  

Your man's the greatest athlete.  No question.  (See Australia 2012).

No, I rather like it.

On the basis that, despite a complete lack of big titles, Monfils can be declared The Best Athlete In The Game... Ever, I'm not going to let a lack of advanced qualifications stop me declaring myself The Cleverest Person In The World.

Mofills athletic ability has nothing to do with his mental approach to the game, i.e. Mo Farrah's a fairly good athlete - not certain that automatically means he's the best in the game at Tennis, though!!

[whocares]

This best athlete in the game nonsense is probably fabricated by lazy anglo-american media. Am not even sure Monfils knows about that crap. Also what's the point? They are playing tennis not running marathon anyway. It's sad that people buy into that sort of rubbish.

[andyi]

Andy first brit since 1969 in FO semi final.


Well done.

Henman made the French SF in 2004!!!

[skyeman]

Apologies to the ref then.

Apparently, the ref offered Murray the chance to come off after the fourth but Murray chose to stay on.

[DJB14]

Unbelievable that Monfils just collapsed in that fifth set and Murray found a 4/5/6th wind. After the fourth I was determined that this match was being finished tomorrow.

[kingraf]

Love it! Andy serves up a 5th set bagel on The Greatest Athlete The Game Has Ever Seen.

Let's hope it's the Andy of sets 1, 2 and 5 who turns up in the semi final and not that strange bloke playing in yellow in sets 3 and 4.

Come on, you're not allowed to be that skeptical about the media's taglines...  

Your man's the greatest athlete.  No question.  (See Australia 2012).

No, I rather like it.

On the basis that, despite a complete lack of big titles, Monfils can be declared The Best Athlete In The Game... Ever, I'm not going to let a lack of advanced qualifications stop me declaring myself The Cleverest Person In The World.

Yes because athletic promise directly correlates with actual reward - that's why Russell Westbrook, the second-most athletic player in the NBA has 0 personal awards... or why Tim Tebow, who had freak athleticism scores for a quarter back is unemployed at the moment... Or why Asafa Powell has won zero individual Olympic medals... Or why Theo Walcott, he of the "Olympic level" sprint capabilities, has developed so swimmingly... don't fancy you need a bit between your ears do you?

Pierre Spies runs 100m in 10.7s can pull up for reps with 60kg on his back, benches over 1 1/2 times his bodyweight, and most likely won't ever start a test for South Africa again. But yeah, athletic = success, and if you arent succesful, you obviously aren't athletic.

[Danny_1982]

Anyone know what these points will do for Andy ranking wise ahead of Wimby?

[CaledonianCraig]

Anyone know what these points will do for Andy ranking wise ahead of Wimby?

I am not 100% sure but I think he will climb from No.8 to No.5. He will go above the injured Del Potro, above Berdych and not sure but think he also goes above Ferrer.

[Gerry SA]

Anyone know what these points will do for Andy ranking wise ahead of Wimby?

I am not 100% sure but I think he will climb from No.8 to No.5. He will go above the injured Del Potro, above Berdych and not sure but think he also goes above Ferrer.

But Murray will be top seed at Wimbledon?

I mean he's Wimbledon champion, Wimbledon runner up and 2 time Queen's champion.

[Danny_1982]

Craig - yeah I've just looked it up, and you're right he's back up to fifth. He can go to fourth if he pulls off a miracle and beats Rafa.

With the curious way Wimbledon do seedings, that should secure him a top 4 seeding for SW19. A very good 2 weeks work. His best ever work on clay I'd say. I know he reached semis before, but this time has been more impressive.

[CaledonianCraig]

An excellent two weeks work which seems to have got him back on the right track and playing with greater consistency (though still lapses) and intensity. Going into the grass court season things are looking much rosier now for Andy.

[kingraf]

Anyone know what these points will do for Andy ranking wise ahead of Wimby?

I am not 100% sure but I think he will climb from No.8 to No.5. He will go above the injured Del Potro, above Berdych and not sure but think he also goes above Ferrer.

But Murray will be top seed at Wimbledon?

I mean he's Wimbledon champion, Wimbledon runner up and 2 time Queen's champion.

Didn't we go through this last year with Nadal and FO? Wimbledon has a weighted seeding system, but I don't think it's enough for Murray to climb to one.

Is Rafa guaranteed the #1 seeding with a win?

[Danny_1982]

It's nowhere near enough for Murray to climb to number 1. Should be enough for him to climb to 4 though, above Stan.

Most pleasing has been seeing the real hunger return, for the first time since July last year I'd say. I don't mean that as a criticism, it must be tough to motivate yourself after achieving your own and British tennis holy grail.

But he's back now. And the backhand down the line is back too. Barely seen it for 18 months, but now his back is ok we can see what a gorgeous shot it is again.

[The Special Juan]

It might not beat Nadal on Friday but it may well hurt him a lot, Danny. I can't believe it's suddenly appeared out of nowhere.

[banbrotam]

Most pleasing has been seeing the real hunger return, for the first time since July last year I'd say

To paraphrase a famous politician of the 60's - "It's the slams, stupid" no insult intended   

[banbrotam]

It might not beat Nadal on Friday but it may well hurt him a lot, Danny.  I can't believe it's suddenly appeared out of nowhere.

I'm a bit perplexed as to why the backhand did disappear. I mean I think it's been two years and it's no coincidence that it coincides with Lendl as coach

I thought that even though it brought him two slams he became less varied and to be honest I liked watching this version better

But crap one dimensional play and French Open Slam is fine by me   

[The Special Juan]

It might not beat Nadal on Friday but it may well hurt him a lot, Danny.  I can't believe it's suddenly appeared out of nowhere.

I'm a bit perplexed as to why the backhand did disappear. I mean I think it's been two years and it's no coincidence that it coincides with Lendl as coach

I thought that even though it brought him two slams he became less varied and to be honest I liked watching this version better

But crap one dimensional play and French Open Slam is fine by me   

Yeah it's refreshing to see him go for it for a change. He may have outground Djokovic in one major final and outplayed him in another but if he wants to beat Nadal and Novak consistently he has to take charge of the rallies early on. Murray's not Djokovic - he can't outgrind both of them over BO5 in the same tournament.

Results are nice but results and good tennis are a winning formula. It's like football - I want to see my team win but I'd rather see them play great football and lose rather than play awful negative stuff and scrape a win.

[Mad for Chelsea]

I think there's a couple of reasons the BHDL mostly went (I felt he started using it as a sort of rallying shot, but sparingly, and no longer as an offensive weapon).

1) All the work he put into improving his FH, probably meant he spent much less time practising the shot, and thus more reluctant to hit it during the matches.

2) The back. I know Murray talked at the start of the year of being excited as he was able to hit shots in training which he hadn't been able to since the back started playing up, and surely this is one of them.

I would say in general he's been hitting the BH with much more venom (both CC and DL). It's a riskier shot as he's hitting it very flat, but devastating.

I would also agree with banbro in that while I think Lendl was great for him, he did make him into IMO a less exciting player. Murray no longer outfoxed his opponents with touch and variations, he simply bulldozed through them with athleticism and power. It brought him two slams, so definitely worked, but I do remember commenting at last year's AO match against Simon (where Murray went back to his old game to an extent) that sometimes I missed the old Murray.

[banbrotam]

I think there's a couple of reasons the BHDL mostly went (I felt he started using it as a sort of rallying shot, but sparingly, and no longer as an offensive weapon).

1) All the work he put into improving his FH, probably meant he spent much less time practising the shot, and thus more reluctant to hit it during the matches.

2) The back. I know Murray talked at the start of the year of being excited as he was able to hit shots in training which he hadn't been able to since the back started playing up, and surely this is one of them.

I would say in general he's been hitting the BH with much more venom (both CC and DL). It's a riskier shot as he's hitting it very flat, but devastating.

I would also agree with banbro in that while I think Lendl was great for him, he did make him into IMO a less exciting player. Murray no longer outfoxed his opponents with touch and variations, he simply bulldozed through them with athleticism and power. It brought him two slams, so definitely worked, but I do remember commenting at last year's AO match against Simon (where Murray went back to his old game to an extent) that sometimes I missed the old Murray.

  The back issues are actually an excellent reason why the double hander went. It requires a lot of 'twist' and the old 'put your back into it son'!! Nightmare, if you've got back problems of course

His variety is becoming more and more unique but it's fascinating to see that Gulbis's rise has been because he's become far more varied in his play as Stan did six months ago

I actually think his Tennis is admired by a lot of his rivals and to think years ago when the likes of Connnors and Agassi made these amazing comebacks, that we'd have a great Brit doing the same

Couldn't care less if he doesn't win another slam as long as he keeps playing like he does in the last week!!

[Silver]

A win is a win, and a SF is just that too. Well done to Murray! As Gerry said, 720 very valuable points, and matching his best run at RG to boot. He'd have taken that at the start of the fortnight, that's for sure. May as well go out swinging next round. Looking forward to Novak vs Gulbis tomorrow, could be fireworks.

I assume you haven't read Banbros work before.

This is a very good point   

[Danny_1982]

Yeah the disappearance of the BHDTL is definitely back related. I saw an interview at the start of the year where he talked about how it was painful to hit the DTL backhand as it requires more rotation, but now post surgery he can again.

The backhand has looked spectacular these 2 weeks. Better than ever I'd say.

[Born Slippy]

It's nowhere near enough for Murray to climb to number 1. Should be enough for him to climb to 4 though, above Stan.

Most pleasing has been seeing the real hunger return, for the first time since July last year I'd say. I don't mean that as a criticism, it must be tough to motivate yourself after achieving your own and British tennis holy grail.

But he's back now. And the backhand down the line is back too. Barely seen it for 18 months, but now his back is ok we can see what a gorgeous shot it is again.

Murray will be seeded 3 for Wimbledon with Federer at 4. Big 4 will be in full seeded effect for the first time in a long time.

The backhand DTL is superb but it's the cross-court backhand which is jaw-dropping. Good to see though that he still makes every match a classic though.

[yloponom68]

With so many seeming to think Gulbis will give any real match to Djokovic, am looking
forward to their semifinal. Just don't see Gulbis having any real effect on Djokovic. Even if he serves at 80%, Djokovic just has too many weapons, too much consistency for Gulbis. He'd have to play "lights out tennis," hitting every shot perfectly, whilst keeping Djokovic at bay. Unless Djokovic's wrist makes an appearance, injury-wise, it's not going to happen. I'd be very surprised if he manages a set, and if so, will be a 7-5 or 7-6, then he'll be "eaten alive."

Murray - great job today. Left the TV after the fourth - the way Murray was looking, grimacing, grabbing his leg, back and hitting his thigh, well - great job Andy. Think it will be a match too far to play Nadal - again, unless he plays light out tennis, winning majority of points in 3-5 shots, or Nadal shows up with a back, half the age of his knees; just a match too far. Still, stranger things have happened than Gulbis to beat Djokovic, and/or Murray to beat Rafa,so onwards and upwards - game on!

[Guest]

Yeah with Fed gone, and Murrays reserves already heavily eaten into, id say its the dream final, Nadal today started bad, and then absolutely exploded, Ferrer had nothing to counter, the third and 4th sets are tennis that gives hope he could still lift the cup of musketeers, though hed better start a damn sight quicker.
Djoko looks regal though... its getting harder and harder to not listen to my head.


Lets spare some time for the womens semis though. Petkovic vs Halep will be a nervy affair with loads of breaks, I think halep will squeak through. Now, Bouchard vs Shazza... hmmmmmmmm....

[HM Murdock]

Love it! Andy serves up a 5th set bagel on The Greatest Athlete The Game Has Ever Seen.

Let's hope it's the Andy of sets 1, 2 and 5 who turns up in the semi final and not that strange bloke playing in yellow in sets 3 and 4.

Come on, you're not allowed to be that skeptical about the media's taglines...  

Your man's the greatest athlete.  No question.  (See Australia 2012).

No, I rather like it.

On the basis that, despite a complete lack of big titles, Monfils can be declared The Best Athlete In The Game... Ever, I'm not going to let a lack of advanced qualifications stop me declaring myself The Cleverest Person In The World.

Yes because athletic promise directly correlates with actual reward - that's why Russell Westbrook, the second-most athletic player in the NBA has 0 personal awards... or why Tim Tebow, who had freak athleticism scores for a quarter back is unemployed at the moment... Or why Asafa Powell has won zero individual Olympic medals... Or why Theo Walcott, he of the "Olympic level" sprint capabilities, has developed so swimmingly... don't fancy you need a bit between your ears do you?

Pierre Spies runs 100m in 10.7s can pull up for reps with 60kg on his back, benches over 1 1/2 times his bodyweight, and most likely won't ever start a test for South Africa again. But yeah, athletic = success, and if you arent succesful, you obviously aren't athletic.

So what is Monfils' time for 100m? What weight can he lift? How far or high can he jump? And how do these measurements compare to the rest of the tour?

Because, remember, the claim is not merely he is a good athlete, the claim is that he is the best on tour and maybe the best the game has ever seen.

I'm quite willing to accept he's a good athlete. I'm wondering where the free upgrade to The Greatest has come from.

[Born Slippy]

Murray is surely going to go all out attack in the SF. I can't see him beating Nadal who is starting to look close to his peak form. However, if he can give him a tough match that will be very encouraging for Wimbledon.

[super_realist]

I think an SF is precisely what Murray was looking for this week. Valuable points, matches under his belt and some good tennis.
He'll be satisfied with that week.
Probably a straight sets defeat tomorrow, but he'll not be disappointed. Looks like he needs the weekend off to recuperate for Queens on Monday.

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