Suluama Fuimaono-Sapolu and Godwin's Law

"Why the All Blacks have no excuse not to go to Samoa, Tonga and Fiji"



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFiDl-xQ7oE

Heck, why not. The NZRU are a charity and we don't need to pay our players and coaches competitive salaries as they all stay in NZ.

I think an All Blacks V Nazis game would earn us some serious coin. Good idea!

I have a lot of sympathy for the Island cause. I believe we should play at least one island team a year and that we should regularly play in the Islands.

I agree with the general gist of his early statements. That is:
1) NZ has stong links to the Islands
a) Samoans were ruled from NZ from 1914-1949 and were kiwis
b) That players with Island heritage play a major role in NZ rugby at all levels
I'd add that we have a moral duty to be involved in Pacific rugby.

However, he's probably hasn't helped his cause in being as aggressive. There's an increasing movement in NZ pressuring for Island games. Thee's now a media driven pressure group yo this effect.

The problem with being aggressive is you probably need to be factually correct. I think this is were he runs into problems. There are probable errors all the way through (e.g. I wouldn't think many Samoans were involved in fighting for NZ in WW1 as it was German until NZ invaded on 29 August 1914).

In terms of the Nazi connection and money. This mostly relates to NZ's relationship with SA. This connection was fraught in the amateur era. Essentially, the pull was wanting to be the world's best (that meant playing South Africa) measured against a level of revulsion with Apartheid. Money had nothing to do with it. NZ probably would have played Nazi Germany in the 1930's. Sports contact with Germany hadn't been curtailed by anyone. The winter and summer Olympics were held in Germany, they participated in a myriad of sports at the time. I detest the Nazi machine, but from a historical perspective they would have played them at the time, if they opportunity was there and it was deemed worthwhile.

The comments about South Africa just reflect a limited limited understanding of history. In terms of contact with South Africa. Pressure was growing against overseas tours in the 60's. by 1974 most tours had ended (at the time it looked lake all tours by South Africa had ended). A major reason was the protests that occurred during each of the tours. Ironically, the NZ tour in the early 70's was cancelled by the NZ government. The national government allowed a tour in 1981 that caused absolute chaos (which may also have happened if they toured in the 70's). That effectively ended overseas tours for SA.

In terms of tours to SA. The last NZ tour was 1976. The Gleneagles agreement saw commonwealth leaders look to discourage contact. Given that most African nations boycotted the '76 Olympics following NZ's presence in 1976 the righting was on the wall. The irony is that tours were still undertaken by the Lions, France, South America (i.e. Argentina), Ireland and England.

Having said all the above. I hope they do play in the Islands. I'm guessing that sponsorship and sustaining the local game is a big part of the equation. Maintaining the team is becoming increasingly difficult in the face of big money (currently in the 6 nations, but also to a limited extent in Australia and Japan), that requires a income from television and sponsors. They need both on board to make regular games work. I really hope it's feasible.

First half is good, can buy into that. The second part is rubbish.

The calendar is very congested as it is and there is no great competition for the All Blacks in Samoa, Fiji or Tonga, who often struggle to get their players released from European clubs.

It would be good if New Zealand could send a second team to tour there in June, or alternatively when the Lions are touring Australia/South Africa they could tour the islands if they don't manage to get France to come over, but otherwise I'm sure they'd rather host France, England, Wales or Ireland themselves for 3 tests and make some money.

It's the right idea expressed by perhaps one of the worst possible representatives of Samoan rugby.

Shame they couldn't have scheduled a game against one of the island teams as a warm up for the England tour. I guess there wasn't time. Common sense would have been to have a two game England tour given the farce of the first test and have either Samoa or Fiji vs NZ and then Tonga vs the Maori in a double header.

I would love England to tour the islands.25 years I believe.even this year are midweekers could play a test on the way home.
Japan is another country I would love England to tour

I believe Wales have a tour of the PI scheduled for the summer of 2017 (during the Lions so sadly it'll most certainly be a depleted squad).

I think this topic has been done to death, people just dont grasp whats is in the long term best interests of Samoa (And the All Blacks).

A number of things need to change in the running of Samoan Rugby, and more voting rights given to Samoa at the IRB (especially when the issue of tier 2 countries is on the table) before the All blacks play up in Apia.

At least wales and Scotland are making the effort,weakened or not

sickofwendy wrote:At least wales and Scotland are making the effort,weakened or not

In what way are they making an effort?

aucklandlaurie wrote:

sickofwendy wrote:At least wales and Scotland are making the effort,weakened or not

In what way are they making an effort?

Uh... by scheduling tours of the PI?

Knowsit17 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

sickofwendy wrote:At least wales and Scotland are making the effort,weakened or not

In what way are they making an effort?

Uh... by scheduling tours of the PI?

 
 
And all this effort of scheduling tours has achieved what?

By touring there
I'm moaning about England ignoring them
I don't know the politics surrounding NZ/Samoa so I have no comment on the matter
Chill

Ireland are also going to be touring the PIs (2019 I think). So at least they will be hosting major nations relatively soon.

sickofwendy wrote:By touring there
I'm moaning about England ignoring them
I don't know the politics surrounding NZ/Samoa so I have no comment on the matter
Chill

Then again maybe England have a better understanding of the issues than you?

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

sickofwendy wrote:At least wales and Scotland are making the effort,weakened or not

In what way are they making an effort?

Uh... by scheduling tours of the PI?

 
 
And all this effort of scheduling tours has achieved what?

What exactly do you mean?

Scotland toured Samoa and Fiji last year when they also toured SA and I think the SRU might have plans to tour the Pacific again fairly soon.

As I said, Wales have a tour scheduled for 2017 so should also tour the islands then.

What exactly are you objecting to or complaining about. Forgive me if I have trouble interpreting the implications of short, one-sentence answers.

I would have thought a lot of the problems limiting the progression of rugby in Western Samoa would be common knowledge to the forum.
 
In short, Samoa for all intents is a third World country, I say without being condescending,  there is virually not only no infrastructure to Rugby, but more importantly very little governance or accountable management. Things are "written on the back of the hand".
 
It doesnt help when the Prime Minister Tuilaepa Lupesoliai Neioti Aiono Sailele Malielegaoi is also Chairman of the Samoan Rugby Union, its great for getting votes but its hasnt helped rugby in the island one little bit.
 
Samoan politicians have always been quick to collect  the accolades and freebies that go with samoan rugby, however they do very little to invest in rugby. without that investment and governance they will never be able to achieve viable television capability and the  valuable TV dollar.
 
No doubt you will recall the complaints of Scwalger after the World Cup?
 
http://tvnz.co.nz/rugby-news/dumped-schwalger-fight-samoan-4900174
 
What probably is really sad is that some Northern hemisphere countries fly in, play a game, fly out and then  we hear "Look how great we are for  supporting Samoan Rugby" "look at those arrogant New Zealanders they dont even play in Apia",When all they are doing is Giving the Adminstration in Apia an excuse to not only continue with their unrealistic outdated practises but it gives them no reason to amend their ways or to invest in rugby.
 
If the the Samoan Rugby Union want to play the All Blacks then the place to play it is at Eden Park, the game can be televised around the World, Ticket sales with Aucklands Samoan population would achieve a much higher return, and the ensuing profits can be professionally accounted for, and maybe hopefully distributed into the the grassroots of Samoan rugby, but I wouldnt hold my breath.

Why can't they travel to Fiji and Tonga? Is it a similar situation?

That really is very sad to hear about Samoan rugby and would explain their poor performances lately. Hopefully they can fix it.

There are "democracy" issues with Fiji.

But if the ABs play anywhere in the islands it would most likely be at Nukualofa or Avarua.

Dont forget that just because the All Blacks may not play in the Islands, plenty of other New Zealand teams do.

Most definietly
All I'm saying I wish my country toured there
Be nice for some of our players to return home for a test   

aucklandlaurie wrote:...If the the Samoan Rugby Union want to play the All Blacks then the place to play it is at Eden Park, the game can be televised around the World, Ticket sales with Aucklands Samoan population would achieve a much higher return, and the ensuing profits can be professionally accounted for, and maybe hopefully distributed into the the grassroots

I can't understand this idea that the All Blacks would be doing Samoa a disservice by agreeing to play in Samoa, on the grounds they'll earn more if the game is held in NZ. International matches are not just paydays for the unions. They build goodwill and memories on both sides. Scotland's visit to Fiji and Samoa in 2012 was greatly appreciated. I don't think many of the 30,000 or so fans who attended those two matches would have found their way overseas to see them.

In an ideal World you are right Rugby Fan, however commercial viability is reality, If Scotland believe that their visits to Fiji and Samoa were greatly appreciated then thats fine, however New Zealand has a bigger responsibility to the region and the long term future of rugby and securing a stable commercial future is far more important.

The All Blacks would be doing Samoan rugby in general a disservice by touring up there whilst the current Samoan rugby administration continues to be in place in both shape and form.

But the NZRFU will always go into bat on behalf of the interests of Samoan rugby at the IRB.

I think the real question should be:

Why don't the top sides and the IRB do more to maintain and spread the game internationally by playing lesser nations away.

If NZ or Australia played the odd game in the Islands it would be great.

The same goes in Europe. If England, France, Ireland and Wales played the odd game in Georgia, Russia, Romania etc it would be great for the game.

I know from NZ's experience in football and basketball that the effects of not playing or only playing overseas on a sports profile.

Rugby Fan wrote:
I can't understand this idea that the All Blacks would be doing Samoa a disservice by agreeing to play in Samoa, on the grounds they'll earn more if the game is held in NZ. International matches are not just paydays for the unions. They build goodwill and memories on both sides. Scotland's visit to Fiji and Samoa in 2012 was greatly appreciated. I don't think many of the 30,000 or so fans who attended those two matches would have found their way overseas to see them.

Was the Scottish tour greatly appreciated? The only thing I can recall is crying from Samoa and accusations of racist referring just because a decision went against them. Some big official even suggested that they should chuck rocks at the ref.

The Black Ferns play Samoa next saturday night at Eden Park as the curtain raiser to the All Blacks versus England game, as a side note the Black Ferns defeated Australia tonight 38-3.

dallym wrote:Was the Scottish tour greatly appreciated? The only thing I can recall is crying from Samoa and accusations of racist referring just because a decision went against them. Some big official even suggested that they should chuck rocks at the ref.

If supporters from other countries never got upset when their teams lose, then you might have a good point.   

There was a fair bit of this too, though:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrGwmRrQ0KY

blackcanelion wrote:I think the real question should be:

Why don't the top sides and the IRB do more to maintain and spread the game internationally by playing lesser nations away.

If NZ or Australia played the odd game in the Islands it would be great.

The same goes in Europe. If England, France, Ireland and Wales played the odd game in Georgia, Russia, Romania etc it would be great for the game.

I know from NZ's experience in football and basketball that the effects of not playing or only playing overseas on a sports profile.

I would agree with this. I don't think the Barbarians should be playing tier 1 nations. If the tier 1 nation puts out their strongest team there's no contest. The Barbarians should be touring the developing areas of the rugby world so they get to see stars they wouldn't otherwise see. If the Saxons want a game they should be playing teams like Georgia and Russia (although maybe not Russia at the moment), maybe on a two-match home-and-away basis.

blackcanelion wrote:I think the real question should be:

Why don't the top sides and the IRB do more to maintain and spread the game internationally by playing lesser nations away.

If NZ or Australia played the odd game in the Islands it would be great.

The same goes in Europe. If England, France, Ireland and Wales played the odd game in Georgia, Russia, Romania etc it would be great for the game.

I know from NZ's experience in football and basketball that the effects of not playing or only playing overseas on a sports profile.

Good point. Ireland have sent the 'Emerging Ireland' team to play a tournament in Romania in a few weeks and last year they sent the same side to play a tournament in Georgia. They'll also play Georgia in the autumn. So I think things are moving along but I'd like to see the IRB step in and demand that tier 1 nations play a certain percentage of matches against tier 2 nations.

If Samoan rugby is so corrupt maybe the irb should take control of their union to sort it out
Send in some rugby mercs from France to regain the union

Rugby Fan wrote:

dallym wrote:Was the Scottish tour greatly appreciated? The only thing I can recall is crying from Samoa and accusations of racist referring just because a decision went against them. Some big official even suggested that they should chuck rocks at the ref.

If supporters from other countries never got upset when their teams lose, then you might have a good point.   

There was a fair bit of this too, though:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrGwmRrQ0KY

nice to see. But when the chairman of Samoan Rugby (who also happens to be the Samoan Prime Minister) accuses the refs of racism just because a call goes against his team and says that you should chuck rocks at the ref if his time is different to the stadium clock/siren, then there's some concern about whether the islands actually liked the tour

The same Prime Minister that said the safety of referees controlling test matches in Apia in future could not be guaranteed.