The appreciation of Guillermo Rigondeaux

According to uncle bob arum, hbo do not want to show another rigondeaux fight, he reaches the end of his 3 fight deal with arum by supporting Chinese super bore Zao shiming. Ok I've given away my thinking on the topic, I think arum is blaming rigo for hbo not buying the card, whereas I'd think Zao as the headline act is closer to the truth.

Uncle bob, is willing to give rigo another contract if minimum purses are reasonable considering rigo's fights are unwatchable. He's also quite happy for him to head over to showtime and by extension goldenboy.

http://m.espn.go.com/extra/boxing/story?storyId=11003763

Is a move to goldenboy the right one? In the era of floyd mayweather can a u.s market for rigondeaux not be found? I believe bob doesn't appreciate him, is there a promotor out there that would? He has an Irish manager, should fast car Eddie swoop and remarket him as quiggs cousin, and get him in the mix with frampton and Barry chocolate?

Any thoughts the appreciation of Guillermo rigondeaux?

He's definitely one for the purists and as such, is always going to be a hard sell to the masses. Shame really as he's worked hard to get where he is but sadly some fighters are almost too good for their own good without having an eye-catching, crowd pleasing style to at least make an opponent risk facing them for a decent pay out

Anyway, given that Arum has done the squre root of f**k all to make Pac/Floyd a reality, it's hardly surprising he's not going to bat for a guy with a comparable talent but nothing like the fan base of Manny.

In the era of Mayweather....Yes a market can be found If...

1. You are foreign and exciting like Manny and Ricky..

2. You make an effort to engage with fans and learn the language..

3. You are from a Country that has plenty of people in America..

If Ward can't sell in his own Country what chance has this guy got.

I feel a bit sorry guy. Not usually one to sympathize with the more boring fighters but Rigondeaux is going to end up making peanuts and getting nothing out of the sport despite being talented and up for fighting anyone who is willing. I remember reading an interview with him a while ago and he said he wishes he had lost to Donaire as it might have got him more fights. Arum has sh1t on him a fair bit. Hes in a division where he isnt short of good opponents either.

He really is in the "Who needs him?" club and it isn't fair as he is so talented. However, he is as stated above one for the purists. He'll never be one for the Saturday night pub crowd a la Groves/Froch/Haye/Hatton mould, but his capabilities are awesome.

It doesn't help that he's at a lower weight. if he'd been a welter then, yes, the fights might have been more forthcoming. However as he's a Super-Bantam, there's not many REALLY well known fighters around that weight other than Donaire and we all know what happened there. Trouble is, if you ain't exciting, you don't sell.

I really think Arum has done Rigondeaux a huge disservice over the past twelve months. People can roll out lines about how boxing is a business these days rather than a sport and all that jazz, but the way Uncle Bob has basically taken every public opportunity he can to undermine and more or less ridicule Rigondeaux’s style, and has made it abundantly clear that he has no interest in harvesting his efforts in to making him a big star, leaves a sour taste for me. If you don’t see great value in him or don’t want to try and build a fan base for him, then fine – but at least allow Rigondeaux to save a little bit of face and keep his pride by maintaining a more positive and dignified public front.

People forget that Donaire, an established star and at that point considered one of the elite fighters in the game, got a career-high purse for taking on Rigondeaux. I also think that people judge Rigondeaux too heavily on that fight, almost as if they’d never seen him fight before. He boxed absolutely the way he needed to and had to against Donaire and it was a masterclass. Before that, while he will always be a stylist first and foremost, he’d actually shown more aggression and excitement and I reckon he could do the same again.

No idea why some regard him as unwatchable or a complete bore, really. Not saying he’s thrilling or a fighter you’d want to pay big money to see, but his fights can be better viewing that some would have you believe. With the right promoter and opponents I think he could still impose himself on the wider boxing conscience – but it’s clear for me that the right promoter just ain’t Arum. If I were Rigondeaux, I’d say good riddance to Bob, personally.

Arum never forgave Rigo for beating Donaire. There was a script and Rigondeaux didn't follow it.

Anyone remember Arum's post fight interview? He was livid with Rigo.

You see conspiracies everywhere...I wish I had your imagination.

I bet you think JFK is on an island somewhere sunning himself..

Why are you so cynical??

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You see conspiracies everywhere...I wish I had your imagination.

I bet you think JFK is on an island somewhere sunning himself..

Why are you so cynical??

Arum said post fight "it will take every ounce of what this 81 year old promoter has left to try and sell Rigondeaux".

Bob though the fight was close, it wasn't. Donaire was his boy, a good earner, and he wasn't happy when he lost despite the fact he also promotes Rigo.

I'm not cynical I'm just talking about boxing, its boxing that is cynical.

Yeh, it's all a bit sad really. Mayweather earns billions with a not dissimilar style, but bob can't sell rigondeaux. Guess he was just born in the wrong country.

He could always do a Bradley, get on the front foot and start swinging. Didn't really work for Tim, but hey.

Arum wants to make it known that Rigondeaux not being a financial success is nothing to do with Arum. The networks arent interested in him, its true but Arum never misses a chance to say its not his fault. His way of saying "Hey Im a great promoter but nothing on gods green earth will make this guy a hit, dont blame me".

In boxing certain reputations get magnified and its practically taught that Rigondeaux is unbeatable and should be avoided and not watched at all costs until it ends up becoming a fact. I would like to see him against some top names but hes barely even touted as a viable fight for anyone at this stage.

Mackem mawler would fork out ppv for him. There's a guaranteed 15 quid for the kitty. Maybe we should have a whip round.

Fickle nature of boxing. Golovkin and Kovalov have a brilliant style and they are freezing their balls off on the outside too.

If you can't appreciate how good Rigo is that you are not a true fan of the sport. His straight left is a thing of beauty.

He completely dismantled Donaire, but what I like about this fight the most is when Donaire feels he's 'in' a fight, he will put the pressure on and get them out of there. He simply couldn't do this with Rigo, even in the 12th when he knew he needed the knockout, he gets tagged with a left which has him backpeddling for the rest of the round.

The ONLY fighter I could see in his weight class who could give him trouble is Frampton.

88Chris05 wrote:I really think Arum has done Rigondeaux a huge disservice over the past twelve months. People can roll out lines about how boxing is a business these days rather than a sport and all that jazz, but the way Uncle Bob has basically taken every public opportunity he can to undermine and more or less ridicule Rigondeaux’s style, and has made it abundantly clear that he has no interest in harvesting his efforts in to making him a big star, leaves a sour taste for me. If you don’t see great value in him or don’t want to try and build a fan base for him, then fine – but at least allow Rigondeaux to save a little bit of face and keep his pride by maintaining a more positive and dignified public front.

People forget that Donaire, an established star and at that point considered one of the elite fighters in the game, got a career-high purse for taking on Rigondeaux. I also think that people judge Rigondeaux too heavily on that fight, almost as if they’d never seen him fight before. He boxed absolutely the way he needed to and had to against Donaire and it was a masterclass. Before that, while he will always be a stylist first and foremost, he’d actually shown more aggression and excitement and I reckon he could do the same again.

No idea why some regard him as unwatchable or a complete bore, really. Not saying he’s thrilling or a fighter you’d want to pay big money to see, but his fights can be better viewing that some would have you believe. With the right promoter and opponents I think he could still impose himself on the wider boxing conscience – but it’s clear for me that the right promoter just ain’t Arum. If I were Rigondeaux, I’d say good riddance to Bob, personally.

Its how I see things Chris. Rigo is a purists dream, I personally don't enjoy watching him as his style doesn't excite me. That said - you can't deny the lads ability. He's special. He'l never be a KO artist, he'll never be a looping, swinging powerhouse. But neither is Mayweather. What Mayweather has is controversy and makes people want him to lose. Rigo doesn't have that.

So, being an exceptional boxer and a nice well rounded person have shot him in the ass - its a massive shame. Arum could have done more - we all know that the man who has pushed 4 Pacquiao vs Marquez fights onto the public and had them lap it up could have worked with Rigo to raise his profile and if not - he shouldn't be tearing him a new one in public - its unprofessional.

That said, Arum is a cancer and needs to die for Boxing to move on. He's strangling boxing for so many fans and professionals right now.

Who on here would pay to watch him?

We're the supposed proper boxing fans and I doubt many if any of us would go to any lengths to watch him, what hope has Arum got of marketing him when the hardcore aren't interested?

I suppose mate, if he was professional and tried to promote his undefeated, Olympic gold medal winning Lineal world champion without chewing him out numerous times in public while making out that he is this unstoppable machine that everyone is avoiding it would prevent us from criticizing Uncle Bob for being an unprofessional moron.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Who on here would pay to watch him?

We're the supposed proper boxing fans and I doubt many if any of us would go to any lengths to watch him, what hope has Arum got of marketing him when the hardcore aren't interested?

If he was headlining the Echo Arena I would go 100%

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Who on here would pay to watch him?

We're the supposed proper boxing fans and I doubt many if any of us would go to any lengths to watch him, what hope has Arum got of marketing him when the hardcore aren't interested?

If he was headlining the Echo Arena I would go 100%

And I would definitely consider watching it on my laptop...get Lara on the undercard and I might even ask someone to let me watch it on their TV.

I used to enjoy watching Joel Casamayor who was, in his day, a lovely fighter to watch

I agree with all the comments. More or less, I do think there is a market there for rigo, all boxing forums seem to appreciate his level of talent and artistry in the ring, he's a firm forum favourite. Arum should be able to turn that into a marketable product.
It's flabbergasting that a "promotor" could say he doesn't know what to do with him, after the donaire fight. Rigo needs to move, that much is clear, although it can't be said that bob hasn't delivered him significant fights.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Who on here would pay to watch him?

We're the supposed proper boxing fans and I doubt many if any of us would go to any lengths to watch him, what hope has Arum got of marketing him when the hardcore aren't interested?

For big fights, yes.

I think his Donaire fight was the last fight I actually stayed up to watch, having 'paid' for it as part of my BN sub.

I think the draw there was Donaire, just like Frampton or Santa Cruz would be.

Not for me, personally, other than that it was Donaire that made it a 'big' fight.

I wouldn't have paid/stayed up for Rigo vs A N Other, in the same way I wouldn't Donaire vs B N Other.

He is a bit of punched though. You would think with his speed, footwork and timing he could get some highlight reel KOs not that he should.need to

Hes not the worst stinker going by any stretch but with no natural partisan fanbase and all his rivals tucking tail and running I think hes more of an avoided fighter than a total stinker.

[quote="Soldier_Of_Fortune"]If you can't appreciate how good Rigo is that you are not a true fan of the sport. /quote]

How mighty pompous of you.

Sheesh, absolutely butchered the quote function there.

kingraf wrote:

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:If you can't appreciate how good Rigo is, then you are not a true fan of the sport.

How mighty pompous of you.

 
If you can’t appreciate boxing in its purest form, how can you be a true fan of the sport?
 
Not saying you have to like him as a boxer or like the way he fights.

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:

kingraf wrote:

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:If you can't appreciate how good Rigo is, then you are not a true fan of the sport.

How mighty pompous of you.

 
If you can’t appreciate boxing in its purest form, how can you be a true fan of the sport?
 
Not saying you have to like him as a boxer or like the way he fights.

Bit like saying, if you can't appreciate Joe Allen's ability to break up play and speed up/slow down a game despite rarely doing anything eye-catching then you can't be a football fan.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Who on here would pay to watch him?

On the contrary, you'd have to pay me.

DAVE667 wrote:

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:

kingraf wrote:

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:If you can't appreciate how good Rigo is, then you are not a true fan of the sport.

How mighty pompous of you.

 
If you can’t appreciate boxing in its purest form, how can you be a true fan of the sport?
 
Not saying you have to like him as a boxer or like the way he fights.

Bit like saying, if you can't appreciate Joe Allen's ability to break up play and speed up/slow down a game despite rarely doing anything eye-catching then you can't be a football fan.

Always thought Claude Makalele was the apex of football myself. Really slick

Poor man's Viera.

Quite possibly but the analogy is fair. Viera was well respected and recognized on a wider level. We're talking about Rigo not getting the plaudits his talents deserve so Claude is as good a comparison as any. However let's not lose sight of the fact that by saying not appreciating Rigo means we can't be real fans of the sport of boxing (bloody hell, I'm doing it now!) Soldier is being a tad dismissive of folk.

Analogy doesn't work as Joe Allen is actually cack.

TopHat24/7 wrote:Poor man's Viera.

Maybe by the time he arrived in England... you'll never know because he did a lot of dirty work, which went unnoticed by people who aren't real football fans.

I'm not even sure they were the same type of midfielder - although I might be wrong - Madrid fan, so I caught most of Claude's games, while until 2005ish, I can't say I'd watched more than two or three matches of Arsenal a season... doesn't help that Vieira was being bossed by a 20-year old Steven Pienaar, or getting bossed by an eighteen year old Fabregas... by comparison, Claude's work was always in the shadows - which is why Madrid won nothing after he left... or why Chelsea started struggling when teams realised it was actually Claude, and not Frank who was the heartbeat of the midfield...

Since other people have started making the football analogies I will join in, there was a Champions League final a few years ago between two Italian sides and it was a turgid nil nil ruled by both teams undoubted defensive brilliance, and it was dishwater dull. On the back of the game loads of chin stroking journalists in the broad sheets wrote long winded, overly long pieces about how brilliant the game was and how those of us who bemoaned how dull it was were clearly not bright enough to appreciate defensive brilliance when we see it. Absolute arse gravy as far as I am concerned, perhaps we are bright enough to appreciate it but would like to see the odd goal or shot on target in the 90 minutes. Rigo is like that, sure most of us on here can understand and appreciate the brilliance of what he is doing, does not mean we have to pretend to enjoy it.

Rowley wrote:Since other people have started making the football analogies I will join in, there was a Champions League final a few years ago between two Italian sides and it was a turgid nil nil ruled by both teams undoubted defensive brilliance, and it was dishwater dull. On the back of the game loads of chin stroking journalists in the broad sheets wrote long winded, overly long pieces about how brilliant the game was and how those of us who bemoaned how dull it was were clearly not bright enough to appreciate defensive brilliance when we see it. Absolute arse gravy as far as I am concerned, perhaps we are bright enough to appreciate it but would like to see the odd goal or shot on target in the 90 minutes. Rigo is like that, sure most of us on here can understand and appreciate the brilliance of what he is doing, does not mean we have to pretend to enjoy it.

I'm like that with Pernel Whittaker but it means I'm not a proper fan apparently....and this after I've introduced you all to the brilliance of Peter Jackson.

W*NKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not liking Whitaker does mean you're not a proper fan to be fair.

Liking Mike Tyson means you're not a proper fan though

Just to bring the football analogy full circle, I'd compare rigo to messi, total control, possibly the slickest in the business, if you can't appreciate the sport being played at the highest skill level you can't be a proper fan.

Completing the analogy there are all types of football fans, all types of boxing fans. And just because other people don't see the greatness of Everton, I don't hold it against them.

Rigo is no Messi, let's be serious now. Messi wouldn't struggle past Cordoba.

I think hes more of a zidane; someone who goes about his work with poise and elegance. Effortless. Great vision. Can slow the pace and make others look ordinary.

Some might see him as berbatov - supremely talented but does very little. When he gets it right he looks a world beater,  when he doesn't....

The Makalele analogy was probably the best one. Zidane was exciting, Messi is exciting, jesus - even Vieira was exciting when he was against Roy Keane and Gerrard - Makalele was there, you knew he was, he was making little passes, making important challenges, protecting the defense, making space creating runs - a maverick in his own way, but was never appreciated because he wouldn't stand out as being particularly great at any one thing. Same with Rigo, he is great at a lot of things, he doesn't excel in anything that would make anyone excited beyond a purist. That doesn't mean, like Rowley says, we have to pretend to like it. He's an incredible talented boxer, but he is dull as dishwater because he lacks power, lacks sparkle and is overall quite boring to watch unless you enjoy that kind of thing.

Makelele was a cracking player, but in the water carrying mould (at least when he came to Chelsea to let lampard get forward). Mascherano would be another. I see them more in a jmm comparison of all round excellence but nothing showy, than a rigo, whose a bit slick and showy, just happens to be more defensive minded. Ie I don't think rigo's skills are unappreciated by anyone who watches him, it just doesn't excite them.

milkyboy wrote:I don't think rigo's skills are unappreciated by anyone who watches him, it just doesn't excite them.

Bingo.

milkyboy wrote:Makelele was a cracking player, but in the water carrying mould (at least when he came to Chelsea to let lampard get forward). Mascherano would be another. I see them more in a jmm comparison of all round excellence but nothing showy, than a rigo, whose a bit slick and showy, just happens to be more defensive minded. Ie I don't think rigo's skills are unappreciated by anyone who watches him, it just doesn't excite them.

Perhaps closer to Busquets then?

superflyweight wrote:

milkyboy wrote:Makelele was a cracking player, but in the water carrying mould (at least when he came to Chelsea to let lampard get forward). Mascherano would be another. I see them more in a jmm comparison of all round excellence but nothing showy, than a rigo, whose a bit slick and showy, just happens to be more defensive minded. Ie I don't think rigo's skills are unappreciated by anyone who watches him, it just doesn't excite them.

Perhaps closer to Busquets then?

He'd need to have be dropped by arm punches, and continuously be looking to hoodwink the ref into deducting points from his opponent.

Busquets is like a cross between Hopkins and Andre Dirrell.