Rio de Janiero - 2014 Fifa World Cup Thread

[FootballLight]

First topic message reminder :

This **should** be the main article for the Fifa World Cup 2014 competition that happens in 10 days time. Lets try and keep the debate simple yet reasonable about all of the build-up, the stadiums, the countries, the players, the qualifying, the winners and most importantly, the "bought" 2022 World Cup.

Enjoy! (And... lets try and make this World Cup as good as possible considering all of the poor build-up, tragic deaths and he outrageous violence that has been happening over recent months)

[Guest]

Should have put Gerrard in midfield alongside Henderson

[cherriesfna]

Rooney is a joke send him back to England, waste of space of the pitch and left Baines isolated all game long, lallana is so much better than him ATM it's unbelievable, Barkley is a better AM so but Wayne on the bench ,

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Rooney was shagged by 65 mins, I'd have taken him off instead of Welbeck in hindsight, but he didn't do too badly, set up the goal and worked his socks off. 

Our problem is our full backs and lack of a proper defensive mid. The full backs are weak defensively and slowed down our attacks taking too much time on the ball, whilst Gerrard doesn't have the legs to help the FB in defence (notice how switching Rooney/Welbeck around didn't work in helping Baines cos it was the lack of help from inside and Gerrard that was the real problem)

[Guest]

I really would love to see rooney walk away from england. The stick he gets even when played out of position to accomodate others just isnt worth it

As long as he keeps getting in double figures for goald and assists for United then I couldnt give a monkeys toss how he plays for this shower

[sportform]

Disappointing loss but overall I thought we played some good football in a good game against a good Italian side.

[sportform]

Rooney was shagged by 65 mins, I'd have taken him off instead of Welbeck in hindsight, but he didn't do too badly, set up the goal and worked his socks off. 

Our problem is our full backs and lack of a proper defensive mid. The full backs are weak defensively and slowed down our attacks taking too much time on the ball, whilst Gerrard doesn't have the legs to help the FB in defence (notice how switching Rooney/Welbeck around didn't work in helping Baines cos it was the lack of help from inside and Gerrard that was the real problem)

Rooney and especially Gerrard are untouchables.

[Duty281]

This World Cup keeps on giving!

Ivory Coast-Japan should be a cracker; can see it going either way. Japan to nick it...perhaps?

[Ent]

I really would love to see rooney walk away from england. The stick he gets even when played out of position to accomodate others just isnt worth it

As long as he keeps getting in double figures for goald and assists for United then I couldnt give a monkeys toss how he plays for this shower

Let's not kid ourselves, he's crap for united too.

He is the worst big name/"elite" player in history.

Just remember he earns 300k a week ie what messi and Ronaldo earn and they break cl goal scoring records, win golden boots, world player of the year and get 50 goals a season.

Rooney gets 15 a season and tries hard.

[sportform]

This World Cup keeps on giving!

Ivory Coast-Japan should be a cracker; can see it going either way. Japan to nick it...perhaps?

Should be an interesting game. Japan kept the ball very well in the last World Cup and the Confederations Cup where they outplayed Italy but lost to the counter attacking 4-3. Whereas Ivory Coast are the opposite kind of team, big and powerful.

[cherriesfna]

Either play Rooney in behind or not at all, and I'd rather have Barkley

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Fantastic goal by Honda, what a finish

What a world cup so far

[compelling and rich]

I really would love to see rooney walk away from england. The stick he gets even when played out of position to accomodate others just isnt worth it

As long as he keeps getting in double figures for goald and assists for United then I couldnt give a monkeys toss how he plays for this shower

jesus!! scholes get crucified for doing the same and at least scholes payed well for England and united!! rooney played one good ball all game that was it!

[Scrumpy]

Glen Johnson cannot be allowed to play for England again, he is awful.

Maybe Rooney could play there instead as he might be more useful than his current position.

[Scrumpy]

How come the Brazilians were booing us?

[Duty281]

Predictions for today, after a slightly bruising yesterday:

Switzerland 1-1 Ecuador
France 2-0 Honduras
Argentina 2-2 Bosnia

[Hero]

Presume the booing for us was due to the locals feeling the English press and Roy have been disparaging towards the venue etc?

[SecretFly]

Gotta admit I slept through most of the English game.  No, not because it was bad, but because I was simply knackered.  So it was surreal because I kept seeing flickers of the game and then falling off to sleep again...weird way to look at a game...and then Roy being interviewed.  

That woke me.  

Roy showing  uncharacteristic teeth when asked about the position of Rooney.  The interviewer wasn't expecting that answer when she put it to him and he was right -she said he (Rooney) looked uncomfortable because the observation was an editorial angle she was carrying to the interview. It wasn't an off the cuff question by herself but a controversy-setter question straight from the editor's earpiece link.  "I thought he did quite well and he set up our goal. It is looking for things to say he didn't play well in that position because I think he did.  There's always going to be one player who there's a big debate around but it's harsh to criticise Rooney's performance."

Good man Roy.  He ain't no cute sad eyed puppy afterall.  Don't be fooled by his shaggy hangjaw look BEEB

[westisbest]

Don't want to curse it, but looking like there will be no goalless draws in these group stages.

Only had one 1-0 game.

[SirJohnnyEnglish]

Don't want to curse it, but looking like there will be no goalless draws in these group stages.

Only had one 1-0 game.

Shhhssssh! Been laying the 0-0 every game so far on Betfair to success!

[Guest]

How refreshing was it listening to Gary Bloom on ITV, after having to endure Phil Neville. Bloom makes the game feel important & there is a buzz, takes me back to the 90`s. Neville was just horrifying, thank god England ate on ITV next.

[Duty281]

Er John...we've got Clive Tyldesley and Andy Townend to put up with next! And Adrian Chiles. And possibly Ian Wright. #horror

'This is England's best victory over Germany since the war."

I miss Motty.

[FootballLight]

The problem was simple for England, but not solved. You could see their defensive vulnerabilities down their defensive left hand side all evening. But Hodgson, Rooney and Baines failed to see/do something about it. Both of Italy's goals on the night came from some worked move down their right hand side with Darmian and Candreva. That is the type of game where, if you want to play on the break, you will want to play a holding midfielder and two central midfielders to press the ball an close down quicker. I'm not convinced Gerrard is an anchor man at all. He is a deep-lying playmaker. He failed to see Candreva's runs into the middle and didn't track him all night. A true defensive midfielder (like De Rossi) would have done that. England lacked any sort of intensity as well in the game. The amount of times they failed to press well enough throughout the game, get the ball up quickly etc. They did once or twice and got a goal from one of them. A well applied finish from Sturridge. But don't get me started on Rooney.

We and they knew it was going to be difficult conditions out there, but they are playing in the evening with slightly cooler whether and they have been saying for the past 3 weeks that they are getting prepared and will be prepared for the stifling conditions. So the whether/fitness levels is not an excuse. There should not be an excuse for losing that game, especially in that manner. They were beaten by the better side I suppose.

[FootballLight]

As Hodgson has rightly said, it isn't beyond them to still qualify. Uruguay lost and they look worse than England at the back, but England will certainly need to learn how to compact their defence and make themselves more sturdy from defending runs on the inside and out wide. Uruguay will do that. If they get too many crosses in, Uruguay will win. But England know they need to win now, I think they will, but they won't be group winners now, that is for sure. I can also see them beating Costa Rica as well, but this has to be a wake-up call for them.

[Duty281]

I must say, Colombia v England in the Maracana in the last sixteen could be a fantastic game, one of the ties of the tournament.

That's if, of course, Colombia top their group and England finish second.

Both teams counter-attacking, direct, fast tempo, with superb support.

Long way to go, though!

[FootballLight]

I personally think England would have a better chance of getting to the Semi Finals finishing 2nd. Colombia are nothing special, decent side, but with 4 key players missing through injury, they will find it difficult and should they play Brazil with all the pressure off them and them being the underdogs, I could see them doing well.

[owen10ozzy]

Since I get crucified for being negative I will start with the positives:

Sterling - Simply sensational last night; instrumental in our goal and the way we countered all night long. Didn't matter if he was playing down the middle, over to the left or cutting from the right the Italians didn't know what to do with.

Sturridge & Henderson - Thought Sturridge started slow but got into the game as it progressed. Looked lively and his pace and movement gave the central pairing plenty to think about. Also took his goal very well. Henderson whilst not a stand out performer did what he was expected to do..looked to break down the play when Italy came into our final 3rd but more importantly kept his passing neat and simple and didn't waste possession which was vital.

Baines - Now this is more for the last 10 mins when Lallana came on...we actually saw why Baines is in the team. If he has a wide man who stays out wide and knows the position i.e. wont drift inside all the time...then he himself can get forward and provide balls in/something else for opposition to think about. Sadly he couldn't do it for the first 80 mins..well we all know why.

We also created many more chances than I had anticipated and looked a threat going forward - however this also brings me onto the negatives:

Had Sterling not been playing last night I think we would have resembled the Uruguay team yesterday without Suarez...i.e. lacked creativity massively. Think Sterling created at least 50% of our chances perhaps even more.

There were still far to many moments when we just didn't have enough bodies in the box; the bbc team pointed it out and myself and have others have said it before...for a counter attacking team we are often far to slow in the midfield getting up and supporting Sturridge...as shown perfectly in the 63rd minute...Barkley went down the left on the counter and when he arrived in the box only Sturridge and Henderson were arriving...Rooney appeared moments after the ball had gone out. This is a problem which rears it's head time and again. Essentially this will always be the case unless you have a body between your holding midfielder and your number 10...when Wilshere came on England had a link when moving from defence to attack thus we had more bodies in and around the box (although obviously we were attacking a bit more anyway but you could see the shape was better going forward)

As has already been noted defensively we were a shambles down the left. I place no blame on Baines as he was literally defending against two all night. All of you who keep saying 'oh playing Welbeck/Rooney or anyone else who is not a natural wide man but works hard defensively' need to watch last nights game time and again before coming out with that gash again. I said it before the game and I will say it now my point has been proven....they can work as hard as they want all night but they will always drift inside and leave the team narrow thus allowing full backs in behind them which leaves our defence with gaping holes...Jag's shouldn't have had to go across for the second goal but he did because Welbeck lost his runner so others have to compensate leaving the team out of shape. Many said that the positional choices of Roy gives the team balance, I hope your giving that some serious rethought....

Not only that but bar the 1st goal we lacked any penetration from out wide; until the latter stages when Sterling was pushed to the right and Lallana came on left. Again this was because when Welbeck and Rooney got on the ball they for the majority looked to come on to the inside. Thierry made a good observation about Welbeck last night; he rarely runs at players or uses his pace...something we want our wingers/wide men to do!

Pressing - Detrimental in the first and 2nd goals...players not pressing the ball. Another thing England have failed to do against the top sides. Gerrard hasn't the legs to do it; Johnson always stands off...Henderson cleans up he doesn't press..we allowed them far too much time on the ball and against players of there quality you will be punished.

Final negative and the biggest of the night: WAYNE ROONEY! Mr Untouchable...the man who was shocking but stayed on the pitch till the end. Yes he created a goal for England but lets weight that against the negatives:

He missed a fantastic chance to level: Should have at least got his shot on target and if he is this world class player that so many still believe then he should have buried it...Messi would have, Ronaldo too..Robben did...Van Persie did...Neymar did...! As Shearer said...you may only get one chance and the difference in levels is the very best put them away.

He left Baines exposed all night...even when he switched to the other side the problem was still occurring. Time and again he drifted inside...Baines must have had at least half a dozen words with him but it still happened. Most annoyingly he knew it..you could see him glancing across his shoulder as he came inside looking to see if the full back was moving on...by time he did something about it, it was to late and his man was already bombing on.

His cross and moment of taking the ball of Barkley in the final 15 showed a man who is lacking the judgement and form at this level. Ross looked like he could have nutted him for that and I wouldn't have blamed him...then that corner...jesus talk about a waste.

I didn't think Gerrard had a particularly great game either...far too many wasted passes/Hollywood balls. All well and good playing it long/diagonal but if there is no one to support the player once he has the ball..pointless.

Perhaps most concerning for me is if Hodgson genuinely meant what he said with regards to Rooney and whether England were vulnerable in that position. If he did then regardless of how poor Uruguay were both them and Costa Rica will know exactly how to beat England. I hope it was just a front so as not to criticise Rooney publicly...sadly I don't think it was and I fully expect him to start on Thursday..

Moving forward: we created enough last night to suggest we can still escape this group however Hodgson has some massive decisions to make and I don't think he is bold enough to make them which will cost us. The big problem is Rooney...you simply cannot play him out left...yet can you now bring him into the 10 role given how good Sterling was? I would say no! Can you play him up top in place of Sturridge..well given the Liverpool man put his chance away and looked more lively plus in terms of goals/assists last season is the in form of the two..again no.

That means...Rooney has to be dropped for me and I don't think we will miss him at all.

The second big decision I think needs to be made is to drop one of the holding midfielders...now I actually wouldn't mind if it was Henderson despite him having the better game. I say this because I think if Gerrard is told just to play like Henderson he could (though would have to come off after 70 as he couldn't do it all day). That allows Wilshere into the fold who I think is essential for England because he is a link man and we cannot play the way we do without one.

My team for Thursday:

Hart

Johnson (no alternative) Cahill Jags Baines

Henderson

Wilshere

Oxlade (if fit) Sterling Lallana

Sturridge

If Ox isn't fit I would be half tempted to play Sterling right and Barkley in the middle. I do not want to see Welbeck or Rooney anywhere near the starting XI.

Sterling, Oxlade and Lallana will run at players and are more capable than Roo/Wel to stay out wide. Wilshere provides the link man but also adds bite and guile to the side. He will press the ball continuously and force players into mistakes. Lallana would also allow Baines to get forward without worrying as much about space behind.

We all know it won't happen but we can live in hope! Still another result I got right and the score as well..good job I put a tenner on it. Great result for Costa Rica as well

[owen10ozzy]

It will seem like a negative post but it really isn't..merely pointing out major flaws that the top teams will continue to take advantage off. They need addressing because if they aren't then we are out simple as. For me it was much better than anticipated...best I have seen us play in a long time but still the same mistakes from the same players..partly because they either are not up to scratch or are being played in positions they simply cannot play.

[Fernando]

Switzerland: Benaglio, Lichtsteiner, Von Bergen, Djourou, Rodriguez, Inler, Xhaka, Behrami, Stocker, Drmic, Shaqiri
Substitutes: Sommer (GK), Burki (GK), Ziegler, Senderos, Lang, Barnetta, Seferovic, Dzemaili, Fernandes, Gavranovic, Mehmedi, Schar
Ecuador: Dominguez, Guagua, Erazo, Paredes, Noboa, Montero, W. Ayovi, Gruezo, A. Valencia, E. Valencia, Caicedo 
Substitutes: Banguera (GK), Bone (GK), Ibarra, Mendez, Rojas, Minda, Arroyo, J. Ayovi, Bagui, Saritama, Martinez, Achilier
Referee: Ravshan Irmatov (Uzbekistan)

[Duty281]

Oh yes, Switzerland look a decent side. I think they will top this group, but shall probably have to settle for a draw here against a capable Ecuador side. First game and all that. 1-1.

Looking forward to how Drmic fares.

[owen10ozzy]

Switzerland 2-1 Ecuador
France 2-0 Honduras
Argentina 3-1 Bosnia

Doing pretty well on my predictions so far; though forgot to do the Ivory Coast v Japan match last night so tad annoyed. See how we get on today! Another football feast day hopefully!

[Ent]

Wasn't really listening there but did Clarke Carlisle just say Jackson Martinez couldn't get into the Ecuador team so that shows what attacking prowess they have?

He's Colombian.

[Nakatomi Plaza]

Wasn't really listening there but did Clarke Carlisle just say Jackson Martinez couldn't get into the Ecuador team so that shows what attacking prowess they have?

He's Colombian.

Yeah, I heard that as well  

[Ent]

Wasn't really listening there but did Clarke Carlisle just say Jackson Martinez couldn't get into the Ecuador team so that shows what attacking prowess they have?

He's Colombian.

Yeah, I heard that as well  

Whilst we get on pundits backs very quickly and a lot - there is just no excuse for not knowing a players nationality when commentating on the world cup.

Just embarrassingly bad.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Rooney will get the blame for the Italian superiority down the right flank but like I said before the tournament started that doesn't happen if Cole plays, positionally he wouldn't have been caught out like Baines and would have demanded the man in front of him to track back.

We played some decent stuff yesterday but it was like trying to fit square pegs into round holes, was the right players but in the wrong position, if Rooney plays it has to be in his favoured number ten role, he just can't play on the left. You can't blame him for that, it's the fault of the manager whom isn't strong enough to drop him.

[GSC]

Cole can't do much against constant 2 on 1s. Lets not get silly

[The Special Juan]

To be fair the Ecudorian and Colombian flags are very similar. Still a terrible mistake though.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Let's be honest it doesn't happen if he's playing, he would stay with his man and pass Darmian onto Gerrard.

[Duty281]

Keeper's nowhere there, 1-1.

[GSC]

...the same Gerrard tasked with securing the middle and out of legs?

Take off the red tinted glasses

[Diggers]

Rooney will get the blame for the Italian superiority down the right flank but like I said before the tournament started that doesn't happen if Cole plays, positionally he wouldn't have been caught out like Baines and would have demanded the man in front of him to track back.

We played some decent stuff yesterday but it was like trying to fit square pegs into round holes, was the right players but in the wrong position, if Rooney plays it has to be in his favoured number ten role, he just can't play on the left. You can't blame him for that, it's the fault of the manager whom isn't strong enough to drop him.

Rooney has played umpteen times for Man Utd on the left. Cole would have struggled yesterday and Baines was screaming at Rooney to cover, it's not his fault Rooney didn't listen. Also Henderson takes some blame here, its part of his job to look wide as well.
We looked like a team playing a system with certain players for the first time, which funnily enough is exactly what we were doing.
But it wasn't a bad performance and logic suggests playing the same team on Thursday would see an improvement, a team more familiar with the system and weaker opposition.
I don't see much changing to be honest and that's probably the right option.

[Diggers]

What worried me was seeing a 19 year old cramp after 60 mins and a centre half cramp up full stop! Bizarre.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Rooney has never looked good playing on the left, whether he's played there a lot or not doesn't change that, as for Henderson hard to cover the left flank when you're playing on the right side of central midfield. I don't rate Baines as a defender at all and don't think it's a stretch to suggest that the experience of Cole copes far better with the Italian threat.

Hardly bizarre in those conditions, Sterling is all fast twitch muscles so he will cramp up in heat it's completely normal.

[Diggers]

Yeah, I've seem stacks of quick players cramp up at 60 minutes..not. And stacks of centre halfs cramp up in normal time...never.
Rooney has played plenty of good games on the left, Id be amazed if he's played less than a 100 there for Man Utd, plenty of them well assisting and scoring regularly.
Cole wasn't making Chelsea's side for a reason and another set of  old legs out there doesn't make sense to me, he isn't the player he was.
Henderson job was to cover across the whole midfield and go where he was needed, he didn't remotely play right mid last night, Gerrard was deep and right for nearly all the game.

[Hammersmith harrier]

How many games have you seen played in the heat and humidity of Manaus?

I've watched Rooney play countless times for us on the left and i'd describe him as workmanlike playing there, very rarely does he excel and i'd like to know any games when he's played better than ok on the left?

Not sure what game you watched but Henderson and Gerrard both played deep with Gerrard on the left and Henderson on the right, it was a major talking point at half time suggesting they were switched.

Cole didn't make the Chelsea team because he had no future there and Mourinho was thinking to the future but he did play in almost all of their big games, no coincidence that they rarely conceded when he played.

[Diggers]

I've seem him do a great job for Man Utd stacks of times left. Why would they play him there with there squad if he couldn't do it? It works when he plays with players he knows, the team looked exactly what they were, unfamiliar. That didn't just apply to Rooney and again should improve.
Cole doesn't have a future at Chelsea, correct, because he's not the player he was and isn't Chelsea's best left back.
This is hardly the first game of football played in hot humid conditions, not that it was even massively hot or humid in the end.

[Nakatomi Plaza]

Switzerland 2-1 Ecuador
France 2-0 Honduras
Argentina 3-1 Bosnia

Doing pretty well on my predictions so far; though forgot to do the Ivory Coast v Japan match last night so tad annoyed. See how we get on today! Another football feast day hopefully!

Good start Owen!

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Never celebrated a Swiss goal before, that was lovely for a late winner at 7/5

[Nakatomi Plaza]

Brilliant advantage played by the ref when Behrami got taken out in the middle of the park.

[Duty281]

Still no draws then!

[Ent]

Rooney is never that good on the left for united and I can't remember the last time he played there.

Could well be 5 years i.e. since Ronaldo left.

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